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Originally posted by rich23
Whatever the Iraqis have to do to drive out the invaders, they will do: and so would American citizens if their country were under occupation. All you gung-ho blowhards out there should ask yourselves whether, if your town were occupied by an invading army, you'd actually put on a uniform to mark yourself out as an insurgent. Would you even call yourself an insurgent? Don't think so. Did the French Resistance wear armbands or special helmets or badges when they were fighting the Nazis? No, but that's ok because the Nazis were the bad guys.
Well wake up! Because Americans (and, to my shame, the UK) are now the bad guys, it really is that simple. The US and UK invaded a country for no good reason and are really screwing the country up. Now you lot expect insurgents to wear red bandannas or similar BS so your boys know at whom to aim. Well, if you're going to invade another country, be prepared to look like war criminals and DON'T expect the locals to help you out on that one.
First, the US is not going to leave Iraq until they're kicked out; and Iraqis know that their government is a bunch of puppets who can't do anything but the bidding of their masters.
Second, they're not targeting civilians? How do they know? When you're being shot at, doesn't everyone look like an insurgent?
There are a lot of Iraqi civilians being killed, considering US forces are only targeting insurgents... remember the pregnant woman shot in the head as she was being driven to hosptial? The young teenager raped and her whole family killed? There are many, many more.
Ultimately, it boils down to this: the occupation forces shouldn't be there. The resistance has the right to drive them out any way they can. Even if that means my countrymen getting killed.
And if seeing Juba at work makes the Iraqis feel better, then so be it.
Originally posted by rich23
Whatever the Iraqis have to do to drive out the invaders, they will do: and so would American citizens if their country were under occupation. All you gung-ho blowhards out there should ask yourselves whether, if your town were occupied by an invading army, you'd actually put on a uniform to mark yourself out as an insurgent. Would you even call yourself an insurgent? Don't think so. Did the French Resistance wear armbands or special helmets or badges when they were fighting the Nazis? No, but that's ok because the Nazis were the bad guys.
Well wake up! Because Americans (and, to my shame, the UK) are now the bad guys, it really is that simple. The US and UK invaded a country for no good reason and are really screwing the country up. Now you lot expect insurgents to wear red bandannas or similar BS so your boys know at whom to aim. Well, if you're going to invade another country, be prepared to look like war criminals and DON'T expect the locals to help you out on that one.
Astygia, I respect you, and you've been out there, so you ought to know... but I still think you're not really getting it when you say
But the coalition troops are not targeting civilians, they are after insurgents. Insurgency only gives this craptastic administration another excuse to stay.
First, the US is not going to leave Iraq until they're kicked out; and Iraqis know that their government is a bunch of puppets who can't do anything but the bidding of their masters. They can't renegotiate the Production Service Agreements that mean the oil is going to be profitable for US companies; they can't say to the US, stop building your MASSIVE embassy in Baghdad (using migrant workers in conditions reminiscent of indentured servitude), and we don't want you having massive bases in the desert either, thank you very much.
Second, they're not targeting civilians? How do they know? When you're being shot at, doesn't everyone look like an insurgent?
There are a lot of Iraqi civilians being killed, considering US forces are only targeting insurgents... remember the pregnant woman shot in the head as she was being driven to hosptial? The young teenager raped and her whole family killed? There are many, many more.
Ultimately, it boils down to this: the occupation forces shouldn't be there. The resistance has the right to drive them out any way they can. Even if that means my countrymen getting killed.
And if seeing Juba at work makes the Iraqis feel better, then so be it.
Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Are yo saying that they can't control the urge to kill civilians?
Everyone has full control of their actions. If someone signed into the military after this war started, knowing that there was a heavy chance that they would be sent to Iraq, and be put in the situation in which they have no control.
Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and the results of those actions. You kill people, other people will come back to kill you.
Where is the evidence in this video that they killed a "suicide bomber"? For all the viewer can see, they could have exploded an errant rodent... Also, creepy that these kids sound like they just won a video game
The day before yesterday was catastrophic. The day began with news of the killings in Jihad Quarter. According to people who live there, black-clad militiamen drove in mid-morning and opened fire on people in the streets and even in houses. They began pulling people off the street and checking their ID cards to see if they had Sunni names or Shia names and then the Sunnis were driven away and killed. Some were executed right there in the area. The media is playing it down and claiming 37 dead but the people in the area say the number is nearer 60.
The horrific thing about the killings is that the area had been cut off for nearly two weeks by Ministry of Interior security forces and Americans. Last week, a car bomb was set off in front of a 'Sunni' mosque people in the area visit. The night before the massacre, a car bomb exploded in front of a Shia husseiniya in the same area. The next day was full of screaming and shooting and death for the people in the area. No one is quite sure why the Americans and the Ministry of Interior didn't respond immediately. They just sat by, on the outskirts of the area, and let the massacre happen.
For American politicians and military personnel, playing dumb and talking about numbers of bodies in morgues and official statistics, etc, seems to be the latest tactic. But as any Iraqi knows, not every death is being reported. As for getting reliable numbers from the Ministry of Health or any other official Iraqi institution, that's about as probable as getting a coherent, grammatically correct sentence from George Bush- especially after the ministry was banned from giving out correct mortality numbers. So far, the only Iraqis I know pretending this number is outrageous are either out-of-touch Iraqis abroad who supported the war, or Iraqis inside of the country who are directly benefiting from the occupation ($) and likely living in the Green Zone.
The chaos and lack of proper facilities is resulting in people being buried without a trip to the morgue or the hospital. During American military attacks on cities like Samarra and Fallujah, victims were buried in their gardens or in mass graves in football fields. Or has that been forgotten already?
We literally do not know a single Iraqi family that has not seen the violent death of a first or second-degree relative these last three years. Abductions, militias, sectarian violence, revenge killings, assassinations, car-bombs, suicide bombers, American military strikes, Iraqi military raids, death squads, extremists, armed robberies, executions, detentions, secret prisons, torture, mysterious weapons – with so many different ways to die, is the number so far fetched?
There are Iraqi women who have not shed their black mourning robes since 2003 because each time the end of the proper mourning period comes around, some other relative dies and the countdown begins once again.
Let's pretend the 600,000+ number is all wrong and that the minimum is the correct number: nearly 400,000. Is that better? Prior to the war, the Bush administration kept claiming that Saddam killed 300,000 Iraqis over 24 years. After this latest report published in The Lancet, 300,000 is looking quite modest and tame. Congratulations Bush et al.
Everyone knows the 'official numbers' about Iraqi deaths as a direct result of the war and occupation are far less than reality (yes- even you war hawks know this, in your minuscule heart of hearts). This latest report is probably closer to the truth than anything that's been published yet. And what about American military deaths? When will someone do a study on the actual number of those? If the Bush administration is lying so vehemently about the number of dead Iraqis, one can only imagine the extent of lying about dead Americans…
Originally posted by Vekar
Found the Russias snipers name: Vassili Zaitzev
Anyway the Russian army was fighting to repel the German Army and they couldnt, lack of resources. So instead they trained sniper battalions to go out and hunt down German officers to destroy enemy moral and it DID. One sniper was notified for his abilities and his name was Vassili Grigoryevich Zaitzev (Russian: Васи́лий Григо́рьевич За́йцев). He to had a special rifle he used just as Juba which was a Russian WW2 model sniper rifle there is a picture of it here:
en.wikipedia.org...:Vasily.Zaitsev.jpg
Its now in a museum in Moscow last time I checked, the guy has over 12 medals for his fighting and was noted for his training of sniper battalions AFTER Stalingrad. Anyway he had OVER 114 kills in Stalingrad alone, and they claim he killed over 400 people in the long run, with 11 enemy snipers dead as well. So this guy was your up... get the .......................picture?
Originally posted by rich23
As for the suicide bombing issue, well, it is an unfortunate fact that Islam has a real thing about martyrdom. But so, if you look way back, did Christianity; and I think it has to do with how much power you have.l....
There is also evidence that a "free-fire" policy was tacitly encouraged for a while. You've been there, I haven't. I have, however, seen plenty of testimony from Iraq Vets Against the War, in which people say repeatedly that they kept AKs in their vehicle so that if they killed a civilian they could go and take photos of the body with an AK beside it, thus proving they had killed an "insurgent".
Originally posted by Vekar
The "WAR IN IRAQ" is a GUERILLA WAR just like it vietnam where they will sit back and use long range attacks rather than up close and personal attacks. They know they cannot hope to take on an army of tanks, helicopters, infantry, APC's, humvees, artillery, missiles, and jets so they will kill you the slow and effective way: one at a time or with an IED at the side of a road. Its not called being a coward, its called being SMART.
The reason the use of a SAW would be called barbaric is due to how its used, the "insurgents" wouldnt show themselves and never have in such a manner so if it was a picture of "insurgents" getting mowed down I would HIGHLY doubt they really are, you would be mowing down IRAQI CITIZENS since they are the only ones who show themselves THAT openly.
[edit on 23-10-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]
As for ape, relying on US figures:
Originally posted by 25cents
it's called extreme cowardice in light of light of surviving.
Originally posted by Vekar
They know they cannot hope to take on an army of tanks, helicopters, infantry, APC's, humvees, artillery, missiles, and jets so they will kill you the slow and effective way: one at a time or with an IED at the side of a road. Its not called being a coward, its called being SMART....
the "insurgents" wouldnt show themselves and never have in such a manner so if it was a picture of "insurgents" getting mowed down I would HIGHLY doubt they really are, you would be mowing down IRAQI CITIZENS since they are the only ones who show themselves THAT openly.
Originally posted by Blaine91555
Originally posted by Vekar
Long live the Iraq Resistance! May they bash the bushiites out of Iraq!
I have sent a link to this thread to a freind at the local US Marshalls office. He is passing it along to the Homeland Security folks. Have a nice life. Strap on a bomb and prove them right.
mod edit, spelling
[edit on 23-10-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]