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Juba 2 Video: How 668 U.S soldiers were killed with Juba's Sniper Rifle

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posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by rich23
As for deltaboy... we have some pictures that seem to defy the rules about posting here (I know that if I posted pictures of Iraqi infants killed, they'd be taken down immediately, likewise pictures of the hideous birth defects due to DU pollution), the last of which appears to show a dead Iraqi with no weapon or anything to show that he was an insurgent. Your video wouldn't play for me, but one of the comments on the page was


The last pic doesn't show him having his weapon because the soldiers took it away. Unless you think they should left it there. You see the second pic that the dead insurgent have no weapon, although he still wearing a vest to carry the ammo. The soldiers took it away to destroy it, so it will not be picked up by insurgents still alive.


Where is the evidence in this video that they killed a "suicide bomber"? For all the viewer can see, they could have exploded an errant rodent... Also, creepy that these kids sound like they just won a video game



And don't listen to this guy. Look at the video yourself, unless you are over 18 and can handle seeing the suicide bomber getting blown by the American troops when they got suspicious. This guy who made the comment has bad eye sight and can't see the white car in the video.




posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by 25cents
different circumstances. the nazis were taking over the country for themselves, and butchering millions of people. we're attempting to remove a dictator and his supporters from the area so that they can have at least a semi-autonomous government (whether it's us or the surrounding countries, they're likely to be pushed around for a long time).

also - if the nazis were actively seeking and killing people based on suspicion, that's a million miles from what the US is doing in iraq. if we seek out insurgents, we don't kill them, or massacre groups - we look for evidence, and then imprison them if they aren't an immediate threat.


Don't kill them? No Massacres? LOL, that's what the media and de Pentagon-Propagande-Machine is telling you ... don't you remember Fallujah for example? And about imprisonement ... what about human rights? Right.

Listen what is happening in Iraq is the following, US+sidekicks go into the country to colonize it because of the oil and strategic area to control. Of course the locals don't want this ... how would you react if some country would start invading Florida? LOL, that's right with a people's resistance ... just like the resistance in WWII ...

I mean, I wouldn't buy it either if the US would come over to Belgium to bomb everything back to the stone(d) age, kill 600 000 civilians ... I'd be placing IED's and even trow rocks at their tanks out of frustration ...



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:21 AM
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i'm quite sure that there are soldiers taking out their frustrations on the local population - which i agree is intolerable.

do you honestly think the government would condone that kind of stuff, knowing that it could DESTROY what's left of our foreign relations?

you do realize what kind of monetary trouble our nation is in, and how much we rely on foreigners to help our economy run, right?

and as far as priosons go - they continue a war we're willing to let go. war is hell. deal with.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by 25cents
i'm quite sure that there are soldiers taking out their frustrations on the local population - which i agree is intolerable.

do you honestly think the government would condone that kind of stuff, knowing that it could DESTROY what's left of our foreign relations?

you do realize what kind of monetary trouble our nation is in, and how much we rely on foreigners to help our economy run, right?

and as far as priosons go - they continue a war we're willing to let go. war is hell. deal with.

It's a war the US started, the US should finish it by getting the hell out of there ...



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:27 AM
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right - cut the head off of and the body disappears, right?

they'll find a new head, and then we have to go back. no.

leaving before the job of removing every trace of saddam and his supporters would be stupid.

if they were smart, they'd stop attacking us until we decided it was safe to leave, and then stage a coup at that point.

unfortunately, humans aren't really known for their intelligence. especially ones who refuse to budge in their viewpoints.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by 25cents
right - cut the head off of and the body disappears, right?

they'll find a new head, and then we have to go back. no.

leaving before the job of removing every trace of saddam and his supporters would be stupid.

if they were smart, they'd stop attacking us until we decided it was safe to leave, and then stage a coup at that point.

unfortunately, humans aren't really known for their intelligence. especially ones who refuse to budge in their viewpoints.

What head? what body? What job? The US has no bussiness in Iraq ... Al Quaida is in Afghanistan and all the 19 highjackers were Saoudi Arabians ... there were no connections with Al Quaida, there were no WMD's ... I mean, what job?

It's hard enough to run the country (US) on itself ... I mean, look at Katrina ... look at those poor people, in stead of ging 1/3 of their budget to military they could do somethign about that ...



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by 25cents
do you honestly think the government would condone that kind of stuff, knowing that it could DESTROY what's left of our foreign relations?


Yes I do. Given the evidence, do you think our government cares about foreign relation right now? If they did, what's up with John Bolton?


you do realize what kind of monetary trouble our nation is in, and how much we rely on foreigners to help our economy run, right?


I totally agree, but the ones in charge don't seem to care.


and as far as priosons go - they continue a war we're willing to let go. war is hell. deal with.


We're not willing to let it go. They will kill American soldiers. If there aren't American soldiers there, they won't kill them will they?



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by kris44
What head? what body? What job? The US has no bussiness in Iraq ... Al Quaida is in Afghanistan and all the 19 highjackers were Saoudi Arabians ... there were no connections with Al Quaida, there were no WMD's ... I mean, what job?

It's hard enough to run the country (US) on itself ... I mean, look at Katrina ... look at those poor people, in stead of ging 1/3 of their budget to military they could do somethign about that ...


i agree that we should not have gone there in the first place - but we're there now, and leaving it unfinished would be foolish.

head = saddam
body = insurgency
job = allowing a new government to form without saddams lingering prescence



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by 25cents
do you honestly think the government would condone that kind of stuff, knowing that it could DESTROY what's left of our foreign relations?


Yes I do. Given the evidence, do you think our government cares about foreign relation right now? If they did, what's up with John Bolton?


you do realize what kind of monetary trouble our nation is in, and how much we rely on foreigners to help our economy run, right?


I totally agree, but the ones in charge don't seem to care.


and as far as priosons go - they continue a war we're willing to let go. war is hell. deal with.


We're not willing to let it go. They will kill American soldiers. If there aren't American soldiers there, they won't kill them will they?


i've explained why our leaving would be foolish. if we leave, another american hating government spawns from saddams remains, and eventually there will be another war. staying there to help establish a government which will likely be more US friendly is ultimately in our best interests.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by 25cents
i agree that we should not have gone there in the first place - but we're there now, and leaving it unfinished would be foolish.

head = saddam
body = insurgency
job = allowing a new government to form without saddams lingering prescence


The insurgency isn't pro Saddam, it's anti-american. Big difference. And the government would be formed fine, if we didn't start a bloody civil war.

And I posted my previous post while working, so I was a little late on the uptake, Still, the subject of foreign relations is a Red Herring.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 09:45 AM
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ok, you're saying we started a civil war?

how so? please explain to me how our presence instigated these people to killing one another.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I'm saying that soldiers are killing civilians. Please disprove this.


Hell yeah there's few whacko soldiers killing innocent civilian Iraqis...and it's disgusting. And the ones that do get the book thrown at 'em....refer to the Haditha case and the rape of that 14yr old girl. All troops involved are getting hammered.

But the big difference between the U.S. and Insurgents is that targeting civilians is not part of the U.S. plan....it's not intentional. But the insurgents have time after time targeted, killed, blew up, etc... innocent civilians. In many cases where U.S. troops were not even close to be found.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:18 AM
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The simple answer is that we created a puppet government lead by the Shiite majority. The Sunni minority doesn't recognize this government because of the obvious problems with it's creation.

For a more in depth answer look here



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:28 AM
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Humanity.



The following is to Philadelphite and everyone else who said something

similar


Listen Philadelphite, i do hear what you are saying, and i understand i always recognise it and remind my self of a great quote by Nitsche "When fighting monsters be careful that you too do not become a monster, when you look into the abyss the abyss also looks into you".

But i don't feel what i have said here warrants you saying i have lost my humanity, you are right that i am angry at all the crimes the US soldiers have commited against the iraqi people, but i am not using that as an excuse for my words. Indeed even if the US soldiers hadn't done those evil things my reaction would have been the same.

Why? because it's a war, and the more US soldiers dead or injured, the closer the resistance is to victory. I'm not happy that their dead, i'm just happy that the resistance is closer to winning. The less US soldiers, the more resistance fighters.
It's not personal.

Granted your soldiers may not agree with their government, and granted they come from poor backgrounds, are very young and still kids, but that really doesn't change the fact, that they made a choice. It may make me sad at times to think that their leaders parents and teachers victimised them and forced them to fight the wars of much old men. But that doesn't change the fact that IT IS A WAR and they are OCCUPIERS.

A war that your country started, so you should not be suprised when those you have declared war against celebrate when they are victorious over you. Your soldiers on the streets of baghdad, who have not chosen to defect, go awal, or to consciencelsy object, represent Bush's imperialism, and the loss of Dignity of the country of iraq. They are the tool of the sinister neocollonialists and US interests.
So ofcource, we must celebrate when that tool is broken.

Now i never said i agreed with killing prisoners or a wounded person, and certainly your soldiers aren't civilian. So i don't think i have broken any law or rule, it is peoples right to kill enemy soldiers on their land under the geneva conventions.

i hope your men, boys, rest in peace, but i hope you also remember that we have boys younger than yours who have also died. And unlike your boys, they didn't choose the war or to be living where it happened.


Lethys



Beloved? Cute? So you really see this has some glorious battle between good and evil. Where one side is pure evil because you don’t agree with their actions and the other side is good and honorable because they are fighting them.


Well one side is fighting on their own city streets where they grew up, and the other side are tresspassers, in a country they do not belong in, trying to impose their will on others.
It doesn't take a genious to see which side is right and which side is wrong.


Let me ask you a question Syrian Sister. Why is it that you are willing to believe what the insurgents have to say as 100% truth while dismissing anything from the western media as pure propaganda? Is it simply because they are fighting the Americans, and that those fighting a force that is evil couldn’t possible be lying and evil as well?


Well lets see, the US has been lying from the start, everything that comes out of their
mouth is either pure lie or laced with lies. Since before the lies about the WMD's and to this day. But you seem to agree with that.

Now i never said the Resistance don't use propoganda, ofcource they do and they do it very well, but propoganda the definition of the word doesn't necceserally means lies, it just means to propogate an idea.

And no, the people who have been defending their country and homeland from the illegal and violent occupation, against all, fighting a super power with 30 year old rifles and never for a second giving up or thinking they will lose. People as honourable as that cannot be evil. So that is why i will belive my Partisans over you any day of the week.
Ofcource no human can be perfect, and by nature i am a truth seeker, but the more i learn about the resistance, the more i love them. And i see it happening to friends of mine who aren't even Arab muslim or Iraqi. No decent human being can help loving a hero, but unfortunately heros are almost always missunderstood. These guys are just genuenly good and honourable.

Anyway, it is every persons right to defend their homeland from foreign occupation, the whole world should support such a person in what they are doing, no matter who that person is.

SteveR


Did you know the Nazi's called French freedom fighters "insurgents" and

"terrorists."


YEP!

Deltaboy

no one wil understand this but you, but Nice Fumoffu

the picture of that boy your criminals killed on his own street in his own home town,
didn't even have a weapon in his hand. ANd you say they dn't kill civilians?

The fact that your men, kill resistance fighters doesn't mean they don't kill civilians too. So by posting the images you achieve nothing, unless your purpose was to rub it in. If that is the case i'll just let you know that those heroic men aren't really dead at all, because martyrs live forever.

Asytgia


You're damn right I would fight an invasion. But would I blow myself up in a crowd of mainstream Christians because I'm a Leonine?


Well then you should like Juba , because he hasn't done this now has he?
He just picking off US soldiers day to day, surely by what you said, you have to agree with him. After all in his position you would be doing the same thing.


finallianstallion


and juba ( whatever ) is doing just the same thing I would be


Your an honest and honourable guy.

... but you have to admit Vassili was awsome



sbob

and i think, your beliving alot of propoganda. You do realise your soldiers occupy mosques and use them as bases, not only that, they've occupied schools as well and shot kids trying to get their school back.


the events of April 2003, when US troops entered the peaceful city of Fallujah and occupied the local secondary school. Local people angry about the US occupation, and demanding the re-opening of the school, demonstrated outside the school on the evening of 28 April, nearly three weeks after the fall of the regime. US soldiers fired on the crowd, killing 13 civilians immediately.
electroniciraq.net...



spacedoubt

well it seems the US government claims it killed that "mythical" sniper.
if the idea

is as pathetic as you say, i wonder why they had to go to such lengths.


--------------------------------------------------------------

As for the resistance so called "Cowardice".

I think that's pretty rich coming from those who blow up children sleeping in their homes from 2000 feet flying in jet bombers.

It's rich coming from the people who hide in large bases, tanks humvees and bradley fighting vehicles (well maybe not bradleys.. they are pretty week). Not to mention the weapons and armor and air support.

The French resistance didn't have a Uniform at all untill they had an arm bands near the end of the war, because like the Iraqi resistance the french resistance had many factions and not one uniform.
But the Iraqi resistance has always worn some sort of identifying insignia, arm band head band, head scarf, flack jacket , and they always carry their weapons openly.



Tell that to the French resistance. The Nazis would round up people and kill them because they could have been in the resistance. Do you blame the resistance, or te people killing?


EXACTLY!

25cents



different circumstances. the nazis were taking over the country for themselves, and butchering millions of people. we're attempting to remove a dictator


Lol, even though your comment has nothing to do with the arguement, they are still wrong. It is exactly the same situation, your just beliving the propoganda this time around, if you where living under gobbels propoganda you'd be sig heilling right now.
lol, the nazi's too where claiming they where attempting to remove a dictator in their war against russia, his name was stalin



also - if the nazis were actively seeking and killing people based on suspicion, that's a million miles from what the US is doing in iraq. if we seek out insurgents, we don't kill them, or massacre groups


Heh, which planet do you live on? The Nazi's used to attack and demolish entire towns if any "insurgent" (as they called it) activity was coming from there. That is exactly what the US has done, in falluja, ramadi, haditha, najaf....etc.
The SS storm troops used to break down doors and threaten people and drag them away, looking for the "partisanen", and that is exactly what your soldiers do to iraqi families. Infact you hold the wifes and children of those you suspect to be part of the resistance in prison. And even worse than the nazi's, you go into hospitals and destroy medicene, tie up patients and doctors while they are still operating because you suspect those doctors of treating resistance fighters.




[edit on 25-10-2006 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister

Deltaboy

no one wil understand this but you, but Nice Fumoffu


Thanks.


the picture of that boy your criminals killed on his own street in his own home town,

didn't even have a weapon in his hand. ANd you say they dn't kill civilians?


Wrong, he HAD a weapon, the troops took it away since they don't want any other insurgents to pick up the weapon to continue using it. In any military conflict you try to deny the enemy with tools to kill you. And what about the second pic? Didn't mention the fact that he is wearing an ammo vest, although he ain't carrying a weapon. Soldiers took his weapon away as well.


The fact that your men, kill resistance fighters doesn't mean they don't kill civilians too. So by posting the images you achieve nothing, unless your purpose was to rub it in. If that is the case i'll just let you know that those heroic men aren't really dead at all, because martyrs live forever.


If they aren't really dead, Allah sure didn't kept them alive. Its a magic carpet ride for them to see him.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:44 AM
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^ you do realise the character of sousuke is a muslim? and chidori reminds me of me, only i'm cooler.


Wrong, he HAD a weapon, the troops took it away


Is that like when you shoot farmers and then put a shuvel in their hands to pretend they are planting IED's and cover up your crimes?


If they aren't really dead, Allah sure didn't kept them alive. Its a magic carpet ride for them to see him.


This sort of poetry is wasted on someone like you, because it is beyond your comprehension but here goes anyway, martyrs don't die, they live forever in us.

[edit on 25-10-2006 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:50 AM
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I'm calling BS on the 668 #! As of yesterday the 24th there have been 2,801 US soldiers killed in Iraq - Source

So that means that 24% of US soldiers killed were struck by a sniper???



Simo Häyhä, a Finnish sniper during WWII is regarded as the most successful sniper with 505 confirmed kills
unofficial accounts say 542, and he had another 200 or so with an SMG


en.wikipedia.org...

Simo did this in a World War with Red Army attacking. It was also done in a vast snow covered terrain which IMO might make target acquisition easier, but I'm no expert on that.

I find it hard to believe some Iraqi insurgent has 668


[edit on 25-10-2006 by warpboost]



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Is that like when you shoot farmers and then put a shuvel in their hands to pretend they are planting IED's and cover up your crimes?


Or maybe it's like - the insurgents only posting video of a " successful " mission, rather than posting all the videos where they either miss their target or purposely kill civilians ?



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 11:09 AM
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^ just put down that bottle of Fox news juice for a second and consider for a momment. Why would the resistance kill the very people they are trying to get the support of?
Why would the resistance spend so much time making these propaganda videos to get more and more iraqies to support them, and then "prupersly" kill civilians?
A gorrilla army cannot survive without the support of it's won people.
Why would the resistance ever hurt their own people and families, the very people they are fighting for.

Just think about it for a momment and apply logic. you'll see that your idea doesn't make sense.

It's easy to understand why the USan soldier kill civilians, they are trained to be killing machines and to act like they own the country, and when they go into a place like iraq where they don't know friend from foe and have no morality to begin with, not even their own government can controll them.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Astygia
I see what you're saying, but to one who actually has the best inentions in mind, looking back doesn't matter, and a religion which glorifies or romantasizes death doesn't matter.


Ok... I have to say I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here, so forgive me if what I say isn't about the point you intended to make.

First, a word about intentions. In a sense, intention is irrelevant, decoupled from wisdom. For all I know, the PNAC guys and Dubya might be genuinely fired up with a mission to bring democracy to the region. But it's a dumb ambition, simple as that, not because the people "aren't ready for it" but becaue you can't bring democracy to people, they have to get it for themselves... and looking back does matter, because when you look at the history of the region and how we've consistently ####ed them over, then you get a sense of how, in a truly just world, we'd bow out and just give them a fair price for their oil.

That's a general point about the notion of intent and about why it's important to look back. History does help you interpret the present.

Second, what I'm trying to say is that their religion helps them justify suicide bombing but the real reason they do it is to do with their own powerlessness. They simply don't have that many options. I'm not defending it, but I can understand it as a matter of expediency. Their backs are up against the wall and they have several hostile occupying armies in their backyard.

This is why I'm no mainstream Christian, because out of sheer principle I refuse to let anyone take my head, because it's using your head that matters.


Further, whether we're there to stir the # or not, well...we talking about people here, or starving rats? If someone invades my country, I'm not gonna kill everyone I see.


What about the people you view as collaborators with the occupying forces? Things got pretty sticky in France after the occupation, as far as I can remember. Add a carefully stirred hornets' nest of sectarian differences marinaded in religious fanaticism and voila! cluster####.


Everything else you've said we are pretty much in agreement on, or at least seeing the same page, except this above post.

I cannot articulate how angry that makes me. I have not watched the "war tapes" or "shockumentaries" about Iraq because I just want to forget it, so if that's where you're getting it from I am not qualified (and never will be) to debate the context those statements may have been used it.


I've just seen several interviews with guys from IVAW and some stuff that's come up on the BBC. Hardly "shockumentaries" - they're not sensationalising anything, but then, they don't have to. I don't blame you for not wanting to see anything else about it... but you do keep coming to this forum to discuss it, so it's hard to know what to say. I doubt that I could even find a link right now and I wouldn't suggest you watch anything that brought up any unpleasant memories.


If any superior officer had informed, ordered, asked, or hinted that I do such a thing, I'd have walked/swam back to Texas.


Good for you. I believe you. And I believe, too, the equally thoughtful and humane guy who said he got posted to a place where that was "the done thing" and went along with it, and it really upset him. The world (and even Iraq) is big enough for you both to be correct in what you say.

As for deltaboy, that bottom picture proves nothing, with or without a weapon, either way, apart from there being one more dead Iraqi at the hands of the invading force. How do you know he ever had a weapon? You just believe the soldiers? There have been plenty of Iraqi vets saying it was routine to plant AKs and take pictures of "collateral dead" with them to "prove" they were insurgents. He could have been a civilian or equally well he could have been a local trying to drive out the invaders. We'll never know.

And I did tell you that the youtube video wouldn't play, so don't try the childish taunts, please. As I can't make it play, I can't verify whether the comment was correct or not... but I thought it was interesting. You seem to think that that third picture was proof of something, whereas actually it wasn't, so I'm not especially inclined to give your opinion on what the video shows a great deal of weight.

25cents wrote


i've explained why our leaving would be foolish. if we leave, another american hating government spawns from saddams remains, and eventually there will be another war. staying there to help establish a government which will likely be more US friendly is ultimately in our best interests.


Do you really think that, say, another three years of increasingly bloody occupation will make the Iraqis like the US? I'm using traditional British understatement when I say that this is naive. You can't have it both ways; either you admit that what you want is a government that's a puppet of the US, or you want a government that represents the people of Iraq, whose goodwill towards the US has been just about used up.



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