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posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by stansthemanSee, in other places people who buy natural resources are called customers. Okay, here's the deal, we won't buy your oil anymore, we'll come up with another way to power our country and other non-Muslim countries.


Ya. another way. Which is to occupy the country and not have to buy anything anymore because you can just take it now. And kill anyone who resists you.


Originally posted by stanstheman
Where would you be then? What else can your countries sell in order to feed your people and provide infrastructure? And don't be thinking "China" because they'll just steal our technology and walk away from you-no loyalty there!


What makes you think that US or any other country can provide everything that the world needs? You assuming that middle east has nothing to offer but oil is very ignorant and makes me question your intelligence.


Originally posted by stanstheman
Eventually all those oil gaziliionaires will run out of money. And they won't run out of it in the ME, they'll take off for Europe or the US once TSHTF. Then what? You cannot eat sand and drink oil. Really though, I cannot wait for someone to come up with a fuel I can put in my car which will not come from an ME country. That will truly be the end of all this because the ME will just be another sandbox the US is expected to feed.


FYI. US is in trillions of dollars of debt because it feeds of other countries. Dont act like US is saviour of the world and is feeding the poor starving ME.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by half_minded]




posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by stanstheman
I didn't ask a question, I made a statement, and apparently it has to be made over and over again because you just don't get it.


I realize it was a statement/argument and not a question. In any case, seems like I have to keep referring you to my original post over and over again becasue you dont seem to get it.
My post was answering why moderates dont stand up agianst extremists.


Originally posted by stanstheman
You can say what you will but if the Prophet Mohammed is not a religious figure in someone's life then that person is not obligated to you or Islam in ANY way to revere that person in ANY way. I agree that some sensitivity to Islamic beliefs would be great (in a perfect world) but outside of that scenario it just won't happen, especially not now. As a Muslim you should be steadfast in your belief and not be so affected by the thoughts and words of others. I know what I believe and the opinions of those who do not agree with me do not in any way sully my faith or lessen it. There could be a million silly cartoons of the Holy Father and it wouldn't effect me one bit. My faith can stand up to ridicule, can yours?


How did you come to assume that I am not steadfast in my beliefs. Why do you think I am here?

Its not a question of if your faith can stand up to ridicule, its more about if YOU can stand up to it.

FAith of islam has millions of poeple from different backgrounds. If some of them cannot stand upto it then it does not give anyone the right to steretype muslimsin any way.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky


originally posted by half-minded
I am not in the US so you dont have to ask me to leave.


This does not jive with your previous posts:

I study in US and I have a lot of friends from India of different religion.

So, which is it?




Im currently not in US. And when I am there, I do follow Us rules and laws.


Originally posted by jsobecky
Because the city is overcrowded? That's the reason non-muslims are not allowed in mecca? Somehow, I doubt it.


Just because you doubt it does not make it so. Please do some research.You will be surprised to find out that during hajj season some people actually get killed because the crowd is so much that some people actually fall off the railings of the roof.

Imagine if non-muslims were allowed in Mecca. Imagine the amount of people who would go there. Not to mention, the reporters and photographers. You can go to mecca any day of they year and you will see for yourself that the streets are filled with people. Its very hard for pilgrims to find hotel rooms easily. They stopped allowing personal cars into the city because it took up so much space.

Why would they allow the unnecessary crown there which they know they cant handle?



Originally posted by jsobecky
No, not a double standard at all. One is a law, the other is a religious belief. The law protects your ability to practice your belief; it does not force someone else to respect your belief.


Its also law in muslim countries to not disrespect the prophet. Laws are there for a reason. The government knows that this kind of thing can stir up violent reactions that why they have laws which the western world convenietly disobeys claiming it as freedom of speech.


Originally posted by jsobecky
I thought the point of the thread was why don't the millions stand up and denounce the few that are giving them a bad name.


Ya, so. Its the same thing. What dont you understand or see different?


Originally posted by jsobecky
A few extremists have an entire religion paralyzed with fear. The extremists depend upon that fear to keep muslims under control.


Its the same as me going up to a murderer and asking them not to murder anyone. they might end up murdering me. How does that prove that its the religion causing the murderer to kill and not just his own personal agenda.


Originally posted by jsobecky
It will never stop until you refuse to live under fear.


I dont live under fear. Infact, I openly challenge anyone to come and try and kill me. Religious extremist or not. Just because I dont want to have anything to do with stupid violent people does not mean I fear them.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by half_minded]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded

Ya. another way. Which is to occupy the country and not have to buy anything anymore because you can just take it now. And kill anyone who resists you.


We buy the ME oil, we don't take it. And in place such as Iraq the money they are making by selling oil is being used to in a small way to rebuild the country, a country which had few schools or hospitals. or power plants, or water treatment plants. The US is paying for the overwhelming majority of these costs. What other ME countries are we occupying? Or are you talking about 1991 when the Kuwati's begged us to come to their rescue? Any Kuwati man of fighting age left the country and then refered to the US forces as "our white slaves". Noooo the ME isn't backwards, not one bit. You can't even provide your own infrastrucutre, my Dad spent months in SA overseeing the building of a military city in the desert. One fall he almost didn't get home because he couldn't get a flight, it was right before Ramadan and every Saudi that could was flying the coop.


What makes you think that US or any other country can provide everything that the world needs? You assuming that middle east has nothing to offer but oil is very ignorant and makes me question your intelligence.


The ME has nothing else to offer, you are huge consumers of products made outside of your countries. I have never once walked into a Walmart and seen anything with a "made in Saudi Arabia label!" And believe me you wil not be able to maintain the life style to which you have become acustomed to with anything else you manufacture. Don't lecture me, the ME is a one trick pony. And BTW you came here to be educated didn't you?



FYI. US is in trillions of dollars of debt because it feeds of other countries. Dont act like US is saviour of the world and is feeding the poor starving ME.


We don't feed you for free now, but when the time comes we will have to! BTW, the US gives more in foreign aid than any other country.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:12 AM
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How did you come to assume that I am not steadfast in my beliefs. Why do you think I am here?


I didn't assume anything. If you are steadfast in your beliefs then you should by all means practice your faith and not be concerned with what the rest of the world thinks-especially Danish artists.


Its not a question of if your faith can stand up to ridicule, its more about if YOU can stand up to it.


Have at it, a casual conversation on a message board is not something that could ever effect my faith in my God, my country or myself, ever. You are a faceless unknown entity who is entertaining me while I drink my coffee, nothing more. The problems of the planet will not be solved because our paths crossed. I respect your rights to your opinion and I feel free to disagree.


FAith of islam has millions of poeple from different backgrounds. .


Yes I know some Muslims. My daughter's God father is from Kabul, my other daughter's teacher is an American Muslim. As far as extremist Muslims, they are the kings of stereotyping! To them every non believer is an "infidel"-how's that for stereotyping?



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by stanstheman
We buy the ME oil, we don't take it.


But you want to, that why the war.


Originally posted by stanstheman
And in place such as Iraq the money they are making by selling oil is being used to in a small way to rebuild the country, a country which had few schools or hospitals. or power plants, or water treatment plants.


Rebuild a country which they destroyed by you. Atleast people were living normal lives and had homes and were alive.


Originally posted by stanstheman
The US is paying for the overwhelming majority of these costs.


You got to be kidding me. The country which is in trillion of dollars of debt is paying?


Originally posted by stanstheman
What other ME countries are we occupying? Or are you talking about 1991 when the Kuwati's begged us to come to their rescue?


Kuwait, Saudi, Afghanistan, etc. It was US who helped Iraq invade Kuwait so they could later come to the 'rescue' and occupy it.


Originally posted by stanstheman
Any Kuwati man of fighting age left the country and then refered to the US forces as "our white slaves".


Ofcourse if it was you then you would have stayed to fight back since u r such a hero. And ur claim is baseless. People did not run away. Infact there are still prisoners of war which havent returned.



Originally posted by stanstheman
You can't even provide your own infrastrucutre, my Dad spent months in SA overseeing the building of a military city in the desert. One fall he almost didn't get home because he couldn't get a flight, it was right before Ramadan and every Saudi that could was flying the coop.


Saudies were running from what? Please explain properly.


Originally posted by stanstheman
The ME has nothing else to offer, you are huge consumers of products made outside of your countries. I have never once walked into a Walmart and seen anything with a "made in Saudi Arabia label!" And believe me you wil not be able to maintain the life style to which you have become acustomed to with anything else you manufacture. Don't lecture me, the ME is a one trick pony. And BTW you came here to be educated didn't you?


ME does not need to make stuff because they make enough money with oil so they can buy things. Thats how the world works. Economies depend on each other. Please dont lecture me that ME does not make anything because that is still ignorant. If they do not export stuff as much does not mean they dont make it. I came to be educated? maybe, u dunno anything abt me. What did you come here for?



Originally posted by stanstheman
We don't feed you for free now, but when the time comes we will have to! BTW, the US gives more in foreign aid than any other country.


How is it that US is doing so much for the world when it is itself in so much debt and peopel are paying so much taxes. Please dont make comments like 'You feed me' and expect me to actually listen to your arguments.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by stanstheman

I didn't assume anything. If you are steadfast in your beliefs then you should by all means practice your faith and not be concerned with what the rest of the world thinks-especially Danish artists.


Yes you did assume. Infact you directly stated it. I would not be concerned unless everyone was pointing to me and calling me a terrorist. I would not be concerned if this was not affecting my life directly.



Originally posted by stanstheman
Have at it, a casual conversation on a message board is not something that could ever effect my faith in my God, my country or myself, ever. You are a faceless unknown entity who is entertaining me while I drink my coffee, nothing more. The problems of the planet will not be solved because our paths crossed. I respect your rights to your opinion and I feel free to disagree.


Same goes for you to. What are you trying to say?

[

Originally posted by stanstheman
Yes I know some Muslims. My daughter's God father is from Kabul, my other daughter's teacher is an American Muslim. As far as extremist Muslims, they are the kings of stereotyping! To them every non believer is an "infidel"-how's that for stereotyping?


So go and stereotype the extremists not every single muslim.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded
You are a faceless unknown entity who is entertaining me while I drink my coffee, nothing more. The problems of the planet will not be solved because our paths crossed.


Might be entertaining to you but the members at ATS take this stuff as serious issues going on the world which indirectly or directly affect everyones lives.

We try to discuss and ask questions to better understand things. We dont come here merely for entertainment.

If you are here for that then I will not be replying to you anymoe because you are not contributing to this thread or this website in general.

I dont expect problems of the planet to be solved. But maybe if people were more open minded and had better understanding then the problems could be reduced.

Ofcourse you will not undersdtand that because its all just entertainament to you.

I will not be replying to you anymore because there are people who are actually discussing this stuff seriously with me. Enjoy your coffee!



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded
The reporter is using sttire to make 'valid' points?

Who decides that these points are valid???

One side thinks its valid and the other thinks its not.

So who decides?

What makes it valid? What knowledge do you have that millions of muslims dont have that they fail to see that showing the prophet wih bomb is valid?



No-one 'decides' what is valid, or rather people can publish what they feel is valid- that's what a free press is about.

No-one decides. Hopefully the 'other side' argue their case back. Not call for the censorship of other people's work.

Satirical cartoons have a long proud tradtion in the UK - going back to at least Hogarth. Look at Steve Bell in Guardian.co.uk and see what he does to Bush and Blair.

If it comes to a choice between stopping people like Steve Bell and offending a religious group I will side with 'offenders' every day, because the other path leads to totalitarianism.

TD



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded
All this muslim aggression started because of western countries. Western countries are illegally trying to occupy the muslim countries to gain control over resources.


And the agenda finally comes out.


Muslim people are trying to fight back that oppression with watever they got. People however, consider them as terrorists compleltely disregarding the bigger picture.


How do cartoons oppress people?


As it is muslims are enraged because their religion is being insulted daily, they are being criticized daily, they are put under suspicious eyes daily. There is already tension and wars going on which is basically a 'war on islam' and not 'war on terror'. Western countries are using propoganda to wage wars on countries while they do not attack the real threat like NK.


My religion is criticised and insulted hourly. It, and all its representative icons, are banned from government areas. Does this give me the right to be "enraged" and call for the death of something?

Something tells me North Korea wouldn't have been on your mind if it hadn't made CNN first.


On top of all this, the danish reporter thought it would be cool to put cartoons of prophet mohammad in the newspaper depicting him as a terrorist.


So?

You know what's ironic about this, is that while not all Muslims are terrorists, most terrorists are Muslim. Yet people like Buddhist monks are constantly the butt end of rude jokes in numerous venues, and not only do these monks never do anything to deserve the ridicule in the first place, they take it all in peaceful stride.

I'm curious, how do you feel about the picture someone posted of the Pope doctored to look like a vampire? Do your excuses apply to Catholics as well, or is it "ok" that a Catholic holy man is made fun of, just so long as it's not a Muslim?


You tried to test the tolerance of muslims. You keep trying to test someones patience then you are bound to find the limit someday.


What tolerance? You've already said that if non-Muslims don't like Muslim law, leave the land; and that all other lands should be careful to not offend Muslims because it's all our fault.


If I stood outside your house calling your wife a whore everyday, then intitially you would ignore me but one day eventually you will come after me with a baseball bat or you will call the police.


Again with the baseball bat and exaggerated examples....please, please tell me how a comic strip is the same as someone standing outside your window insulting your wife.


Muslims do not have the choice of calling the police on a global issue so they obviously are left with only one choice.


I guess that one choice just can't be a peaceful one.


How long do you expect them to sit quitely while their countries are being invaded, occupied and their citizens killed? Obviously, something like a simple cartoon only adds fuel to a very big fire already going on.


Afghanistan were ruled by the Taliban, and home to terrorist training camps, the same groups which flew planes into my WTC. The Taliban got what they gave.

Iraq is a mess, we shouldn't be there. And Iraqi insurgents shouldn't be killing each other (but I'm sure there's some way that it's all the US's fault that they can't stop killing each other).

That's two Muslim countries we are at war with.

Now how many Muslim countries are we NOT at war with? How many are on the brink of, or in the midst of, civil war by their own means?

Lemme guess, it's all the West's fault.

I have nothing against moderate Muslims, just like I have nothing against Atheists, Satanists, Pagans, whatev. I take everyone at face value on an individual basis.

What I don't take at face value are straw excuses for unnecessary violence. Violence does not excuse atrocity.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded
I already answered the question about why non-muslims are not allowed in mecca.


This was someone else's point, but it I agree with it. Ignore 'Mecca' and substitute Saudi. or Iran.

Non-muslims do not have a freedom of worship that muslims enjoy in ostensibly Christian countries.

This is really the basis of the Pope's speech a few months ago - islamic countries do not seem to give the same level of religious tolerance that muslims enjoy in Western countries.

TD



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded


I was referring to 9/11 and not 7/7. 7/7 was based on religious issues but then again which religiong is not guilty of having extremists that would actually go out and kill people in the name of religion?



I think you mentioned that 7/7 was not religiously motivated, although I could be wrong.

I'm not getting into Christian extremism, because as you said previously, most Westerners are only nominally Christian so the issue doesn't arise.




I dont have time for religiong either. But the problem is that the whole world is putting Islam and muslims under scrutiny and therefore I must protect myself since I am a muslim. I am not gonna stand around and liseen to someone claiming im a terrorist. I wont let them call me violent.


I have never called you either violent or a terrorist.

I would say that the only thing we really seem to disagree on is the limits of free speech in Western society. I am interested in hearing from the perspective of a moderate muslim, which is what you appear to be.



Originally posted by TaupeDragon
Well, 7/7 had a religious motivation and suicide tapes prerecorded, and it's obtuse to say otherwise. It doesn't make all muslims murderers or terrorists, but it certainly was a factor in that atrocity.


I think that's a bit of a cop-out. They seemed to think they knew enough about their religion to die for it - they were regular attenders at large mosques in the UK.

I'm not saying that they are in any way representative of mainstream islam. However, they were motivated by their version of islam, so therefore you could call their disgusting acts religiously motivated. Which was my original point.


TD

[edit on 16-10-2006 by TaupeDragon]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded

Why would you limit your boundaries to the society that is not religious while ignoring the worldwide population and also ignoring the fact that tensions are already high.


Because the other option is to suppress other opinions to appease one portion of society, which is wrong. Period.

Most of these societies with a free press have muslim minorities in their population - do you seriously expect them to stop publishing anything that offends minorities?

Follow that logic, and you will be banning opinion and satire on:

contraception and abortion (Catholics)
IVF (catholics)
Stem stell research (Christians in general)
any religion
automobilies (amish)

As you said previously, it is incumbent on immigrants to conform to the norms of the majority in society (it was in the context of non-muslims in islamic countries, although as I pointed out, copts and followers of zoraraster were around in those countries before islam).





so there was a fatwa released. How many muslims actually did try to go out and kill salman? No one knows truly, so how can you assume that muslims in geral follow every fatwa given by some nut sitting somwhere in his tent.

Islam does not agree with forced conversion. I already answered that oo in detail. Please go back and read.


No, but a lot of muslims protested to have the book banned. Which is nearly as bad, imo.

I didn't mention forced conversion, and I read your post perfectly well. I said (or at least meant) that not forcing conversion doesn't really matter if you are trying forcing a change to behaviour - such as censoring cartooniststs or novelists that offend you


Originally posted by TaupeDragon
HOWEVER - if you say 'immmigrants have to follow the rules', then ERGO.......Danish cartoonists and Salman Rushdie (and the Pope) are off the hook!



Dont take my statement out of context. It was clear I was trying to show that citizens of a certain country expect immigrants to follow and respect their rules while, they themselves dont respect the others belief


It was not out of context. You said Copts and Zoarastrians had to conform to the beliefs on the majority as immmigrants (even though they weren't actually immigrants having been there for thousands of years, in the case of the Z's).

I was just turning your logic around and applying to muslims living in the West.

Not out of context at all.

TD

[edit on 16-10-2006 by TaupeDragon]



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Because the city is overcrowded? That's the reason non-muslims are not allowed in mecca? Somehow, I doubt it.


Just because you doubt it does not make it so. Please do some research.

I have done some research:


The ban on non-Muslim visitors is mentioned in the Qur’an as follows: "Oh you who believe! Truly the idolaters are unclean; so let them not, after this year, approach the Sacred Mosque...." (9:28). This verse specifically refers to the Grand Mosque in Mecca; later scholars have included Madinah in this ruling as well. There are some Islamic scholars who would permit exceptions to this general rule, for trade purposes or for people who are under treaty permission. There is also some debate about the exact area and borders of the restricted area(s). The government of Saudi Arabia, which controls access to the holy sites, has decided upon a strict ban on both cities in their entirety.

islam.about.com...







Its also law in muslim countries to not disrespect the prophet. Laws are there for a reason. The government knows that this kind of thing can stir up violent reactions that why they have laws which the western world convenietly disobeys claiming it as freedom of speech.

This is the wrong reason to protect a religion. The gov't is actually the creator of the fear that they use as a method of population control. Else they would vigorously persecute and punish the violent ones.



Originally posted by jsobecky
I thought the point of the thread was why don't the millions stand up and denounce the few that are giving them a bad name.



Ya, so. Its the same thing. What dont you understand or see different?

At the beginning of this thread, I didn't understand why moderate muslims did not loudly denounce extremists. Now I understand why. It is the fear that they live under, the same fear that is used by muslim countries to control them.


Originally posted by jsobecky
A few extremists have an entire religion paralyzed with fear. The extremists depend upon that fear to keep muslims under control.



Its the same as me going up to a murderer and asking them not to murder anyone. they might end up murdering me. How does that prove that its the religion causing the murderer to kill and not just his own personal agenda.

No it's not the same. A better analogy would be for the entire town to drag the murderer into the open and make him accountable for his crimes.

And while you have him surrounded in the middle of the street, scream at him that it is not the way of Islam to commit terror, even though that is the excuse he uses to murder innocents.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded

Originally posted by TaupeDragon
OK. But. A muslim in London has religious freedom. A Christian (or Buddhist) in Saudi or Egypt doesn't. I was under the impression 'Umma' meant 'muslim brotherhood', rather than 'human'.


Why go there then? Why live there then? Its a country ruled by muslim leaders and they have their rules. If you dont want to follow them then you should not live there. People always expect immigrants to follow the rules of their country, no matter what. So why question the rules of another country.


Ok. That's your quote on those Copts in Egypt. I don't think I was out of context in turning that around on you.

I don't mean to sound narky with you. I think the only thing I really have a problem with you on is the right of non-muslims to express opinions that muslims may not agree with within the bounds of the law.

TD



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 10:35 AM
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I will make this short and sweet. First of all, Half-minded, you are of the opinion that extremists/terrorists are not Muslims. I beg to differ. They are indeed Muslims. That is the religion from which their extremist policies sprang forth. I am reminded of the saying "Muslims are not all jihad/terrorists, but all jihad/terrorists are Muslim"

The basic underlying cause of terrorists acts committed in the name of Islam is the conflict between the Palistinians and the Israeli's. This is why the Twin Towers were attacked. Because certain individuals believed that the U.S. supports Israel to much while Palistinians struggle. So on that fateful day, 19 extreme Muslims committed acts of atrocity, killed thousands of civilians and did it all in the name of Allah. Don't tell me that extreme/jihad/terrorists are not Muslim. Allah is the God they prayed to and the God to which they sacrificed themselves.

I don't agree with the war on terror only because it will not work the way it's being done. The Bush Administration has ensured that future Osama Bin Laden's will be coming. A new generation of hatefilled terrorists to continue the endless cycle. The only way to defeat terrorism is to address the underlying cause of it. Terrorism is simply a symptom of a bigger problem. When this problem gets the attention it deserves, and a solution, the symptom of terrorism will disappear.

To defeat any kind of terrorism, one must examine the cause of it.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 11:05 AM
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The Koran, the Bible and the torah were written by men, and have been edited and interpeted thru the ages. And millions of people have died because content and the ending of the books are a bit different.


Hate 20,000,000,000.....thinking all as humans 0.02

Excluding someone from Mecca beacuse they are not a certain theology is quite repressive. A whole city in this world I am not welcome as a member of the human race, because I was born a "Christian". To say I would be unsafe there speaks loudly that other religions are not accepted.

I know a certain poster feels having to defend hard. And defend what you believe in, but to not see the sham in the rot that is all our religons and governments is silly.

And you seem to keep on blaming the problems on the outsiders. Like I said earlier, most of your problems are from the inside and you are taking the easy solution and blaming someone far away.

I blame my country for many problems. big deal.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded
People are quick to criticize and question the 'moderate' muslims of not standing up against radical muslim leaders.[...] So why didnt the americans stand up against Bush and protested against killing so many innocent people

You do realize however that the people criticizing muslims for not denouncing terrorism are supporters of the actions in teh afghan and iraq war. So why would they protest? They figure, since muslims overall don't protest 911 and the like, they must in fact support it.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by half_minded

Rebuild a country which they destroyed by you. Atleast people were living normal lives and had homes and were alive.


The country was a sh*t hole to begin with, as far as living normal lives? Yeah, sure ask a Kurd the same question. Geesh.



You got to be kidding me. The country which is in trillion of dollars of debt is paying?


Yes we are, perhaps your Muslim brothers would like to throw some oil money Iraq's way to help?


Kuwait, Saudi, Afghanistan, etc. It was US who helped Iraq invade Kuwait so they could later come to the 'rescue' and occupy it.


Looks like someone is taking their history classes in a mosque! We are in Kuwait at the invitation of their gov't. Hmmm I wonder how their army is coming along, oh I know, all 5 of their troops are here being trained.


Ofcourse if it was you then you would have stayed to fight back since u r such a hero. And ur claim is baseless. People did not run away. Infact there are still prisoners of war which havent returned.


Young men did run away! It was almost sad. Such spoiled little, soft handed cowards. As far as I go, you bet your a## I would fight back! If my country was invaded the invading country would have a big surprise! You may want to look up the NRA! Futhermore I come from a military family, the men in my family don't run from conflict, they run into it! Most of the men in my family have spent substantial time in the ME.



Saudies were running from what? Please explain properly.


The strict observance of Ramadan. I guess fasting is only for the poor.



ME does not need to make stuff because they make enough money with oil so they can buy things. What did you come here for?


Do yourself a favor and don't join the debate team. You just proved my point. What did I come where for, first you said you were in the US then not, where exactly are you talking about?



How is it that US is doing so much for the world when it is itself in so much debt and peopel are paying so much taxes. Please dont make comments like 'You feed me' and expect me to actually listen to your arguments.


Well, I guess we're just givers. As far as taxes, that is what you pay to fund a democratic gov't. I am happy to pay my taxes it gives me a voice, pays for schools, and our military. I'd much rather have that system than having a royal family who sucks all the money from natural resources into their own pockets.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by half_minded
Yes you did assume. Infact you directly stated it. I would not be concerned unless everyone was pointing to me and calling me a terrorist. I would not be concerned if this was not affecting my life directly.


I never said all Muslims were terrorists. Check my posts. I don't know if you are, I don't think many terrorists come to this board to feel out public opinion, so I'm gonna go with no.




So go and stereotype the extremists not every single muslim.


If I thought all Muslims were terrorists I wouldn't have asked my Muslim friend to be my child's Godfather. I do expect non-extremists to be loud in their dissent of the hijacking of their religion.



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