It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by stansthemanSee, in other places people who buy natural resources are called customers. Okay, here's the deal, we won't buy your oil anymore, we'll come up with another way to power our country and other non-Muslim countries.
Originally posted by stanstheman
Where would you be then? What else can your countries sell in order to feed your people and provide infrastructure? And don't be thinking "China" because they'll just steal our technology and walk away from you-no loyalty there!
Originally posted by stanstheman
Eventually all those oil gaziliionaires will run out of money. And they won't run out of it in the ME, they'll take off for Europe or the US once TSHTF. Then what? You cannot eat sand and drink oil. Really though, I cannot wait for someone to come up with a fuel I can put in my car which will not come from an ME country. That will truly be the end of all this because the ME will just be another sandbox the US is expected to feed.
Originally posted by stanstheman
I didn't ask a question, I made a statement, and apparently it has to be made over and over again because you just don't get it.
Originally posted by stanstheman
You can say what you will but if the Prophet Mohammed is not a religious figure in someone's life then that person is not obligated to you or Islam in ANY way to revere that person in ANY way. I agree that some sensitivity to Islamic beliefs would be great (in a perfect world) but outside of that scenario it just won't happen, especially not now. As a Muslim you should be steadfast in your belief and not be so affected by the thoughts and words of others. I know what I believe and the opinions of those who do not agree with me do not in any way sully my faith or lessen it. There could be a million silly cartoons of the Holy Father and it wouldn't effect me one bit. My faith can stand up to ridicule, can yours?
Originally posted by jsobecky
originally posted by half-minded
I am not in the US so you dont have to ask me to leave.
This does not jive with your previous posts:
I study in US and I have a lot of friends from India of different religion.
So, which is it?
Originally posted by jsobecky
Because the city is overcrowded? That's the reason non-muslims are not allowed in mecca? Somehow, I doubt it.
Originally posted by jsobecky
No, not a double standard at all. One is a law, the other is a religious belief. The law protects your ability to practice your belief; it does not force someone else to respect your belief.
Originally posted by jsobecky
I thought the point of the thread was why don't the millions stand up and denounce the few that are giving them a bad name.
Originally posted by jsobecky
A few extremists have an entire religion paralyzed with fear. The extremists depend upon that fear to keep muslims under control.
Originally posted by jsobecky
It will never stop until you refuse to live under fear.
Originally posted by half_minded
Ya. another way. Which is to occupy the country and not have to buy anything anymore because you can just take it now. And kill anyone who resists you.
What makes you think that US or any other country can provide everything that the world needs? You assuming that middle east has nothing to offer but oil is very ignorant and makes me question your intelligence.
FYI. US is in trillions of dollars of debt because it feeds of other countries. Dont act like US is saviour of the world and is feeding the poor starving ME.
How did you come to assume that I am not steadfast in my beliefs. Why do you think I am here?
Its not a question of if your faith can stand up to ridicule, its more about if YOU can stand up to it.
FAith of islam has millions of poeple from different backgrounds. .
Originally posted by stanstheman
We buy the ME oil, we don't take it.
Originally posted by stanstheman
And in place such as Iraq the money they are making by selling oil is being used to in a small way to rebuild the country, a country which had few schools or hospitals. or power plants, or water treatment plants.
Originally posted by stanstheman
The US is paying for the overwhelming majority of these costs.
Originally posted by stanstheman
What other ME countries are we occupying? Or are you talking about 1991 when the Kuwati's begged us to come to their rescue?
Originally posted by stanstheman
Any Kuwati man of fighting age left the country and then refered to the US forces as "our white slaves".
Originally posted by stanstheman
You can't even provide your own infrastrucutre, my Dad spent months in SA overseeing the building of a military city in the desert. One fall he almost didn't get home because he couldn't get a flight, it was right before Ramadan and every Saudi that could was flying the coop.
Originally posted by stanstheman
The ME has nothing else to offer, you are huge consumers of products made outside of your countries. I have never once walked into a Walmart and seen anything with a "made in Saudi Arabia label!" And believe me you wil not be able to maintain the life style to which you have become acustomed to with anything else you manufacture. Don't lecture me, the ME is a one trick pony. And BTW you came here to be educated didn't you?
Originally posted by stanstheman
We don't feed you for free now, but when the time comes we will have to! BTW, the US gives more in foreign aid than any other country.
Originally posted by stanstheman
I didn't assume anything. If you are steadfast in your beliefs then you should by all means practice your faith and not be concerned with what the rest of the world thinks-especially Danish artists.
Originally posted by stanstheman
Have at it, a casual conversation on a message board is not something that could ever effect my faith in my God, my country or myself, ever. You are a faceless unknown entity who is entertaining me while I drink my coffee, nothing more. The problems of the planet will not be solved because our paths crossed. I respect your rights to your opinion and I feel free to disagree.
Originally posted by stanstheman
Yes I know some Muslims. My daughter's God father is from Kabul, my other daughter's teacher is an American Muslim. As far as extremist Muslims, they are the kings of stereotyping! To them every non believer is an "infidel"-how's that for stereotyping?
Originally posted by half_minded
You are a faceless unknown entity who is entertaining me while I drink my coffee, nothing more. The problems of the planet will not be solved because our paths crossed.
Originally posted by half_minded
The reporter is using sttire to make 'valid' points?
Who decides that these points are valid???
One side thinks its valid and the other thinks its not.
So who decides?
What makes it valid? What knowledge do you have that millions of muslims dont have that they fail to see that showing the prophet wih bomb is valid?
Originally posted by half_minded
All this muslim aggression started because of western countries. Western countries are illegally trying to occupy the muslim countries to gain control over resources.
Muslim people are trying to fight back that oppression with watever they got. People however, consider them as terrorists compleltely disregarding the bigger picture.
As it is muslims are enraged because their religion is being insulted daily, they are being criticized daily, they are put under suspicious eyes daily. There is already tension and wars going on which is basically a 'war on islam' and not 'war on terror'. Western countries are using propoganda to wage wars on countries while they do not attack the real threat like NK.
On top of all this, the danish reporter thought it would be cool to put cartoons of prophet mohammad in the newspaper depicting him as a terrorist.
You tried to test the tolerance of muslims. You keep trying to test someones patience then you are bound to find the limit someday.
If I stood outside your house calling your wife a whore everyday, then intitially you would ignore me but one day eventually you will come after me with a baseball bat or you will call the police.
Muslims do not have the choice of calling the police on a global issue so they obviously are left with only one choice.
How long do you expect them to sit quitely while their countries are being invaded, occupied and their citizens killed? Obviously, something like a simple cartoon only adds fuel to a very big fire already going on.
Originally posted by half_minded
I already answered the question about why non-muslims are not allowed in mecca.
Originally posted by half_minded
I was referring to 9/11 and not 7/7. 7/7 was based on religious issues but then again which religiong is not guilty of having extremists that would actually go out and kill people in the name of religion?
I dont have time for religiong either. But the problem is that the whole world is putting Islam and muslims under scrutiny and therefore I must protect myself since I am a muslim. I am not gonna stand around and liseen to someone claiming im a terrorist. I wont let them call me violent.
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
Well, 7/7 had a religious motivation and suicide tapes prerecorded, and it's obtuse to say otherwise. It doesn't make all muslims murderers or terrorists, but it certainly was a factor in that atrocity.
Originally posted by half_minded
Why would you limit your boundaries to the society that is not religious while ignoring the worldwide population and also ignoring the fact that tensions are already high.
so there was a fatwa released. How many muslims actually did try to go out and kill salman? No one knows truly, so how can you assume that muslims in geral follow every fatwa given by some nut sitting somwhere in his tent.
Islam does not agree with forced conversion. I already answered that oo in detail. Please go back and read.
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
HOWEVER - if you say 'immmigrants have to follow the rules', then ERGO.......Danish cartoonists and Salman Rushdie (and the Pope) are off the hook!
Dont take my statement out of context. It was clear I was trying to show that citizens of a certain country expect immigrants to follow and respect their rules while, they themselves dont respect the others belief
Originally posted by jsobecky
Because the city is overcrowded? That's the reason non-muslims are not allowed in mecca? Somehow, I doubt it.
Just because you doubt it does not make it so. Please do some research.
The ban on non-Muslim visitors is mentioned in the Qur’an as follows: "Oh you who believe! Truly the idolaters are unclean; so let them not, after this year, approach the Sacred Mosque...." (9:28). This verse specifically refers to the Grand Mosque in Mecca; later scholars have included Madinah in this ruling as well. There are some Islamic scholars who would permit exceptions to this general rule, for trade purposes or for people who are under treaty permission. There is also some debate about the exact area and borders of the restricted area(s). The government of Saudi Arabia, which controls access to the holy sites, has decided upon a strict ban on both cities in their entirety.
islam.about.com...
Its also law in muslim countries to not disrespect the prophet. Laws are there for a reason. The government knows that this kind of thing can stir up violent reactions that why they have laws which the western world convenietly disobeys claiming it as freedom of speech.
Originally posted by jsobecky
I thought the point of the thread was why don't the millions stand up and denounce the few that are giving them a bad name.
Ya, so. Its the same thing. What dont you understand or see different?
Originally posted by jsobecky
A few extremists have an entire religion paralyzed with fear. The extremists depend upon that fear to keep muslims under control.
Its the same as me going up to a murderer and asking them not to murder anyone. they might end up murdering me. How does that prove that its the religion causing the murderer to kill and not just his own personal agenda.
Originally posted by half_minded
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
OK. But. A muslim in London has religious freedom. A Christian (or Buddhist) in Saudi or Egypt doesn't. I was under the impression 'Umma' meant 'muslim brotherhood', rather than 'human'.
Why go there then? Why live there then? Its a country ruled by muslim leaders and they have their rules. If you dont want to follow them then you should not live there. People always expect immigrants to follow the rules of their country, no matter what. So why question the rules of another country.
Originally posted by half_minded
People are quick to criticize and question the 'moderate' muslims of not standing up against radical muslim leaders.[...] So why didnt the americans stand up against Bush and protested against killing so many innocent people
Originally posted by half_minded
Rebuild a country which they destroyed by you. Atleast people were living normal lives and had homes and were alive.
You got to be kidding me. The country which is in trillion of dollars of debt is paying?
Kuwait, Saudi, Afghanistan, etc. It was US who helped Iraq invade Kuwait so they could later come to the 'rescue' and occupy it.
Ofcourse if it was you then you would have stayed to fight back since u r such a hero. And ur claim is baseless. People did not run away. Infact there are still prisoners of war which havent returned.
Saudies were running from what? Please explain properly.
ME does not need to make stuff because they make enough money with oil so they can buy things. What did you come here for?
How is it that US is doing so much for the world when it is itself in so much debt and peopel are paying so much taxes. Please dont make comments like 'You feed me' and expect me to actually listen to your arguments.
Originally posted by half_minded
Yes you did assume. Infact you directly stated it. I would not be concerned unless everyone was pointing to me and calling me a terrorist. I would not be concerned if this was not affecting my life directly.
So go and stereotype the extremists not every single muslim.