Try and argue this. I dare ya!

Alright buddy... Look this is rediculous! Your right when you say not all muslims are bad.. Ive partyed with a few.. there is good honest, hard working muslims out there that prove to be all around pretty good ppl... But its these extremist who hide behind a religion so they can justify killing innocent ppl.. Just go blow your self up and dude presto 70 instant virgins! Thats BS.. And those are the ppl that need to be destroyed.. America isnt perfect no country and there ppl are perfect... We're fighting the extremist.. Not the muslim ppl as a whole... Just the bad apples.. so dont take offence.. CHILL...................................

Peace out

Boy,this thread ruffled a few feathers,it was really good to read!this virtual world seems ok.

Originally posted by semperfoo
Alright buddy... Look this is rediculous! Your right when you say not all muslims are bad.. Ive partyed with a few.. there is good honest, hard working muslims out there that prove to be all around pretty good ppl... But its these extremist who hide behind a religion so they can justify killing innocent ppl.. Just go blow your self up and dude presto 70 instant virgins! Thats BS.. And those are the ppl that need to be destroyed.. America isnt perfect no country and there ppl are perfect... We're fighting the extremist.. Not the muslim ppl as a whole... Just the bad apples.. so dont take offence.. CHILL...................................

Peace out

That is where we differ in opinion. I think US is creating these 'threats' to have an excuse to invade countries. Some threats mayb be genuine but seriously, do you think Osama could have masterminded such an attack on US. Not to mention the 'official story' of 9/11 has changed so may times.

As a result, people have misconceptions about muslims and as a muslim studying in US I face these problems everyday. People easily shift from issues at hand to name calling and then disrepectful remarks. Thats what pisses me off.

On top of that people question me and the others as to why WE dont stand up against extremists. Personally I feel the US to be a bigger threat to world peace and human lives then all muslim terrorists combined.

Maybe here's another good one:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But I'm thinking this has gone away...



[edit on 16-10-2006 by Tha Troubleshoota]

This thread proves one thing to me: ALL religions are an illogical waste of time and effort, and should be banned. I say this not to offend, it's just that there is absolutely no proof of any religion actually being "right" in any way! It's all based on faith, and what does faith prove? Nowt. So why does anyone believe they have the right to impose their religion on anyone else or kill them for not believing? Because they believe what some fantasist cult leader with delusions of grandeur wrote years upon years ago? I'm sure most rational people out there would look at Scientologists and laugh because they believe in a "vision" experienced by a sci-fi writer. Just because someone convinces enough people something is true does not make it so. To me the Quran, Bible, Torah and all the rest are just stories that perhaps the "nerds" of the time took a little too seriously, ala Star Trek fans learning Klingon, wearing Starfleet uniforms and going to conventions (which could be considered gatherings of devotees, much like a church mass).
All good intentions aside, Religions have probably done more harm to this world than good.
As I say I don't mean to offend anyone, it's just my opinion.*

As for what appeared to me to be the point of the original post (all those many pages ago) why do people say Muslims should stand up against terrorist elements whilst U.S citizens do nothing about Bush's less than constitutional or ethical policies, I would think that most Muslims would love to get rid of the terrorists, but

1) Unlike the US, I'm sure that the terrorists don't live in a famous big white house in their nation's capital. It's hard to fight an enemy when you don't know where he is....as I'm sure U.S and NATO forces have come to understand in Afghanistan.

2) Unlike the Bush administration, Muslims don't get an opportunity to vote out Al Qaeda every four years. Although, if they did, I'm sure that somehow Al Qaeda would somehow manage to rig the election. That kind of thing could never happen in the good ol' U.S of A could it?

3) If there was an uprising in America against the Bush administration don't you think it would be met with troops on the street and Marshall Law? Muslims are scared of fundamentalist loonies with guns killing them too you know...

(*Please don't start replying with stories of apparitions of the Virgin Mary, miracles happening or the face of Jesus appearing in a taco as evidence of the existence of God, because I just don't believe it, nor will I ever. BTW I was raised Catholic, so I'm not ignorant of the bible. I'm just not a sheep.)

Originally posted by Nygdan
You do realize however that the people criticizing muslims for not denouncing terrorism are supporters of the actions in teh afghan and iraq war. So why would they protest? They figure, since muslims overall don't protest 911 and the like, they must in fact support it.

That's little more than circular reasoning and doesn't address the issue.

This thread has evolved from outlining the difference between Muslims and Muslim extremists, to blurring the line between them and blaming it all on western nations.

I do not expect all Muslims to protest anything. I do not support the Iraq war. I also do not support the notion that one religion deserves special treatment, and the rest of the world better just suck it up or be prepared to face violent consequences. Because that's what's being advocated here; if you read back a few pages, you'll see that this guy equates a cartoon (which Denmark is free to make, satirical cartoons) to beating people with baseball bats. If this guy speaks for "moderate" Muslims, it begs the question, exactly what it "moderate"?

If you're going to address extremists within your own culture, be up realistic instead of blaming it on someone else. Is that too much to ask?

Take Christianity and the Westborough Church, headed by the crazy Phelps. Is this woman Christian? Yep. And she's also a degenerate moron.

See how easy that is? I don't have to blame Iraq, or soldiers, or homosexuals, or any of this woman's other targets of convenience. She can complain about being oppressed all day, God hates this and that, whatever, doesn't really matter to me. If someone says to me "Oh, you're Christian, like that Phelps lady?" I'd laugh and say not even close.

So I reiterate my earlier questions:

How are Muslims as a whole being oppressed by danish cartoons and Papal comments?

Why, half-minded, do you take a cartoon or a quote as a physical assault upon your person? And do other Muslims do the same?

And finally, why should Islam be treated differently than any other religion, in regards to freedom to mock it?

[edit on 16-10-2006 by Astygia]

Originally posted by Astygia

Take Christianity and the Westborough Church, headed by the crazy Phelps. Is this woman Christian? Yep. And she's also a degenerate moron.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by Astygia]

And may I point out when her "church" gathered at military funerals with awful signs and protested loud enough for the service persons family to hear, a motorcycle group got together and started showing up at all the same funerals. They parked their bikes between the protestors and the funeral and revved their engines to drown out the jeers of the church members. These motorcyclists showed up by the hundreds!

So in fact when fringe, Christian, crazy, nutjob, extremists do horrible things there are people who take care of business! Now if Phelps starts strapping bombs to her church members I don't know what will happen but my guess is that a few of those motorcyclists will have a good reply!

Originally posted by half_minded


You know that Americans are good people because you live around them. I have lived around muslims and Arabs, Indians, Asians, Americans and they all seem same to me. Human!

Bull#! I live in Dearborn Michigan and amoungst arabs for 45 years. We have more than 40,000 Arabic people living here and I know about how Arabs treat americans, especially american women. Now there are good Arabic people I know, but as a whole I wouldn't trust them because they don't even trust each other.

Our public schools system especially High schools we have 3 of them. One is almost 90 percent muslim and the kids that are american or non-muslim get humiliated and tortured physically because they are not muslim. They fight in groups and gang up on non muslims, but alone they will usually not fight. I have seen countless acts of bullying and foul play towards american kids. Most of the american kids don't fight back because they are intimidated and scared #le$$. In fact there was a case not to long ago where a Lebanese kid killed an american kid over a girl. Shot him in the face point blank, he is serving 20-30 years. His father tied to Hizballah.

detnews.com.../20060519/METRO/60519034 7/1003

We have some of the highest morgage, medical, credit card, insurance fraud and money laundering, counterfeiting in the country and 99 percent of the names are arabic. Don't believe do a Google search pic a topic and put in Dearborn Michigan and the topic see what names you come up with. They call americans "Happy's" Why? because they are so naive and easily taken and are still happy when you screw they over.

www.google.com...



www.google.com... ch

www.google.com...[/ url]



[url=http://www.google.com/search?q=insurance+fraud+dearborn+michigan&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial_s&start=10&sa=N]http:/ /www.google.com/search?q=insurance+fraud+dearborn+michigan&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial_s&start=10&sa=N


Need anymore info come and live here for a couple of years and you will see the light. They exploit every part of our system and live large and send the money back to the old country.


www.google.com... arch

[edit on 16-10-2006 by Realtruth]

Half-Minded -

I have some simple yes or no questions.

Do you advocate strapping bombs to children to blow up innocent civilians who happen to be Jews?
Yes or No.

Would you ever strap a bomb to your own child to blow up Jews in Israel?
Yes or No?

Have you ever participated in strapping a bomb to a child?
Yes or No?

Do you believe Muslims are superior to all other people?
Yes or No?

Do you believe it is your duty as a Muslim to eliminate all other religions?
Yes or No?

Do you believe it is wrong for Muslims to attack and kill other Muslims over disputes regarding Muslim philosophy?
Yes or No?

Do you believe it is right to make women subservient to men?
Yes or No?

Do you beat your wife?
Yes or No?

Do you think it is right to withhold education from women?
Yes or No?

Do you allow your wife or daughter to be educated?
Yes or No?

Do you think it is right to kill people who quit the Muslim faith and join another religion?
Yes or No?

Have you ever killed a Jew or person from another faith?
Yes or No?

Do you think that it was right for Muslims to kill the people in the 9/11 attack?
Yes or No?

Would you ever participate in a terrorist act if asked to by one of your religious leaders?
Yes or No?

Originally posted by half_minded

Its disturbing to see that you fail to realize that violence is being committed in the name of other religions also.

Pleas tell me other than the Balkans where violence is committed solely based on someones religion on a scale like the Middle East. Name one act in the name of religion in the modern age that has even approached 9-11 or what is happening in Darfur. It seems like to be a Non Muslim in most Muslim's eyes in the M.E. is to be inferior. The lack of tolerance of others is what is truly disturbing about Muslims in the Middle East.

How do moderate Muslims turn a blind eye to what their brethren are doing in western Sudan? That is Muslim vs Muslim violence yet most of Islam turns a blind eye towards that. What would the Prophet say to those who commit those atrocities on their fellow Muslims?

The whole thing in a nutshell: Muslims groups aren't the only people who hate America. The media just portrays them so we, the public, will back the government into war. But the U.S.A will continue to make new enemies as it tries to "police" the world.

The whole thing in a nutshell: Muslims groups aren't the only people who hate America. The media just portrays them so we, the public, will back the government into war. But the U.S.A will continue to make new enemies as it tries to "police" the world.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Half-Minded -

I have some simple yes or no questions.

Do you advocate strapping bombs to children to blow up innocent civilians who happen to be Jews?
Yes or No.

No, I Dont. Jews arent the only ones dying.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Would you ever strap a bomb to your own child to blow up Jews in Israel?
Yes or No?

No, I wont. Again, jews arent the only ones dying. Infact, muslims are dying more thanx to dear ol Bush.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Have you ever participated in strapping a bomb to a child?
Yes or No?

No, I havent. Just the fact that you question me shows your ignorance. You think if I raise a voice against killing on thousand civilians by US, then I must be a terrorist.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you believe Muslims are superior to all other people?
Yes or No?

No, I dont. Infact, throughout the thread I've been trying to say that they are normal human beings just like anyone. Again you question me without reading my posts.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you believe it is your duty as a Muslim to eliminate all other religions?
Yes or No?

No, I dont. Spreading your faith to someone is one thing and destroying the other's faith is another thing.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you believe it is wrong for Muslims to attack and kill other Muslims over disputes regarding Muslim philosophy?
Yes or No?

Murder is never justified reagrdless of motive, race, religiong, etc.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you believe it is right to make women subservient to men?
Yes or No?

No. What makes you think I do? Thats just ridiculous.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you beat your wife?
Yes or No?

Im not married. But I have a girlfriend. And I dont beat her. Maybe a slap on the ass sometimes (j/k).

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you think it is right to withhold education from women?
Yes or No?

No, Islam doesnt approve of that. Neither do I. And anyone with a common sense wud not agree to that.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you allow your wife or daughter to be educated?
Yes or No?

I would. And all muslims do. Ridiculous to think otherwise.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you think it is right to kill people who quit the Muslim faith and join another religion?
Yes or No?

No, Islam does not allow murder and the above qualifies as murder.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Have you ever killed a Jew or person from another faith?
Yes or No?

No. Have you? Would you like to? Do you think I am a muslim so I must have killed atleast one person in my life? IGNORANCE AT ITS HEIGHEST!

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you think that it was right for Muslims to kill the people in the 9/11 attack?
Yes or No?

Prove to me it was muslims who did it and not the US gov.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Would you ever participate in a terrorist act if asked to by one of your religious leaders?
Yes or No?

No, I wont. I dont have any religious leaders. I govern my own life just like millions of muslims around the world.


Now let me add. My answer was NO to all the above and you would get the same answer no matter which muslim you ask. Muslims are not allowed to do all that. Anyone who does is not a true muslim and his actions are not governed by religion but by his/her own ignorance.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by half_minded]

This dialogue between western culture and Islam is very important, because it helps us to understand what the other one is thinking.

It has been brought to a political level already in Germany. In some Länder (like Northrhine-Westphalia), the percentage of citizens with "migration background" has hit the magical 25% mark, and of course, many (if not most) of them are Muslims. In some schools, children who can't speak properly German exceed 90%. This was brought to the attention to politicians when the teachers of the now-famous Rütli-Hauptschule in Berlin send a desperate letter to the ministry of education: these kids have no respect towards rules and authorities, lessons are pure anarchy, teachers have been harassed, called names, threatened and were forced to leave the classroom crying, down with their nerves. Parents of these children often feel helpless when they receive letters from school, because they either don't understand what is being said ("Your child behaves BADLY") or feel locked out from society simply because they're foreigners. The truth is, they often exclude themselves from our culture when they watch their own TV channels and don't even bother to attain a few basic German speaking/reading skills. This goes so far in some quarters that German kids start to speak bad German so they don't attract attention in the schoolyard. Major media (Bild, Stern, Spiegel) brought headlines like "Integration has failed!", especially after the failed terror attack on trains in Dortmund there were many articles covering "integration" attempts and the "threat from within" and how terror cells in Germany could strike at any moment, because they are more "fan clubs" of Al Qaeda rather than bound to orders from Usama bin Laden. And of course they don't forget to compare Muslim to German birth rates: by 2050, Germans will be a minority in their own country! Old-school left-wingers seem now proven wrong with their "multi-kulti" babble, demonization of everything German and at the same time pretending all foreigners must be angels just because they're not German.

So the ministry of the interior under (CDU conservative!) Wolfgang Schäuble has invited many Muslim representatives of all sorts (liberal, fundamental, progressive, not radicals) to a conference and discuss the issues. I don't expect too much from it, and of course it will be mainly about "integration" efforts. My personal take on all this is... I obviously can't blame them for enjoying sex and children more than we do. But I think conservatives' and right winger's argument is valid when they say "they are guests, and they are supposed to behave as such". Sadly, some of them don't, they behave like it was their country and say so. They have a stronger ego than we have, with our feelings of guilt since 1945 - they know that and take advantage of this, sometimes even to the point simply calling any German "nazi" whenever necessary. Of course, these are the bad examples and they usually get more media coverage than your average "well-integrated" class mate from Turkey with good education and love for/understanding of western culture, still with strong belief and zeal for his religion. That's why I don't panic when, for example, a mosque is to be built in my town (and I honestly don't care if it's bigger than the nearby christian church) or oriental music and influences find their way into our pop culture (I prefer listening to German rap with obvious arabic accent and Turkish chorus to the 24/7 American Hip Hop, Soul and R'n'B irrigation we had on MTV a few years ago). I think it's quite clear: we share common territory because we openly invited them. But we made it too easy for them to take up their own-state-within-a-state stance. The funniest conflicts arise from different views on partnerships: "we aren't allowed to even look at their women, and they go and # any blonde they meet" :-)

(cont)

And there are many issues like this. That's why anyone who hasn't bothered to understand that alien culture of thinking and believing is bound to perceive them as a threat, and that's how things escalate. OMG! What if they started to give Q'ran lessons to Muslim children in German schools? OMG! They could force our women to wear a burka!

So, with a few idiots out there who use their belief as an excuse for terror, violence and war, the BEST thing all left with a sane mind can do is sit down together and ask questions (why do you believe this, how come you do do that, do we agree that...) instead of accusing each other. Especially Christians and Muslims should have no problem with that, they're closer to one another in many aspects of their world view than they are to... let's say Buddhists, for an extreme example. After all, we're praying to the same god, aren't we?

Originally posted by half_minded

Now let me add. My answer was NO to all the above and you would get the same answer no matter which muslim you ask. Muslims are not allowed to do all that. Anyone who does is not a true muslim and his actions are not governed by religion but by his/her own ignorance.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by half_minded]

Thanks for your answers. I was never accusing. My only thought was that the best way to get this discussion heading in a fruitful direction was to get these questions out of the way. Some of your earlier statements were a bit vague and yes or no questions tend to clear things up. I have never believed all Muslims to be responsible for the actions of the extremists. Just like you should not hold all Americans accountable for the actions of extremists. For either of us to do that would be ridiculous but that is exactly what is happening on both sides. As a Christian I am constantly attacked for the actions of people who lived hundreds of years ago who were not even real Christians. All faiths have that burden to bear including the Jews. To hate Jews is as much a sin as hating anyone else. Muslims and Jews could easily live together if both sides would grow up. Both sides are wrong. It's learning to live together that is the real challenge. The terrorists are just criminals.

The 9/11 conspiracy is a bunch of crap spurred on by hatred. Many Muslims believe it because they do not want to admit they have a problem with terrorism in their ranks. I think more Muslims are prejudice against Jews than you are willing to admit. Honesty is the beginning of all meaningful dialogue. The Americans who believe it are those who hate the government and are more than happy to accept any unfounded conspiracy theory that comes along. Just so it goes against the government or the other political party. People from all over the world believe it because they hate Americans. They do not appear to care that there is no evidence. The fact that the anti-Bush media is not reporting on it is proof of that. The fact the DNC is not using it is proof it is not true. The fact that hundreds of people would have to keep silent about a mass murder is further proof of that. Fetzer is just another con-man trying to sell books and he has fooled a lot of naive' people.

I should mention when I refer to the media I am not referring to the phony web-sites that are helping to spread the lies. These sites rely on peoples stupidity and hatred for their very survival. Don't let them fool you. It is all about money and politics. The owner of one of them, Soros, is even trying to buy control of the Whitehouse. I think he may be behind more than a few of these sites. I suspect he may have something to do with Fetzer and the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory. He may have invented the whole thing.

Hate is the cause of all the worlds problems. Until everyone realizes this there will be no peace. In fact this board is a breeding ground for hate. I pray that someday this will change but reading the posts on ATS don't give me much hope. The fact that both the Republican and Democrat Parties are overrun by corrupt people makes it even worse. Both Parties are broken beyond repair.

One thing I need to say about your response. I have had conversations with Muslims who would have answered yes to many of those questions. It is dangerous for you to be blind to that. You should have said that some Muslims would have answered yes to some of those questions but I am not one of them. Then you would have been honest with me and yourself.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
[The 9/11 conspiracy is a bunch of crap spurred on by hatred. Many Muslims believe it because they do not want to admit they have a problem with terrorism in their ranks.

What absolute proof do u have that 9/11 was done by muslims. And terrorist are everywhere, muslims or not. Lot of Americans fail to admit that Bush and his administration is full of terrorists.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I think more Muslims are prejudice against Jews than you are willing to admit. Honesty is the beginning of all meaningful dialogue.

How can you be so sure about that? How do you know that muslims are prejudiced against jews? Maybe they were hundreds of years ago.....but how many muslims do you know or have met that claim to be prejudiced against jews. What makes you so sure that a lot of muslims are just waiting in the bushes to get an opportunity to wipe out a jew?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The Americans who believe it are those who hate the government and are more than happy to accept any unfounded conspiracy theory that comes along. Just so it goes against the government or the other political party.

So being open minded about theories and actually trying to think for themslves proves that they just hate the government and thats why they accuse?
There are people out there who dedicate their lives to finding out the truth. People reasearch these topics and discuss them with other people. People try to analyze every possible answer and try to fit the pieces of the puzzle.
Blindly following the government is a sure sign of ignorance. Esp. when the government is involved in black projects and they keep changing their stories to fit their agenda, etc.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
People from all over the world believe it because they hate Americans. They do not appear to care that there is no evidence.

People hate americans? Please dont make bold statements like that which are clearly false. Open minded thinkers (Conspiracy theorists) look at every possible 'evidence'. Infact conspiracy theories are formed because the stories revolving around it dont have hard evidence. When there is lack of hard evidence, contradictory stories and witnesses or when something just plain smells funny, conspiray theory is created to better understand it.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The fact that the anti-Bush media is not reporting on it is proof of that. The fact the DNC is not using it is proof it is not true.

Anti-Bush media??? Isnt is the other way around? People criticize the media of being one sided and supporting Bush and his agenda.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The fact that hundreds of people would have to keep silent about a mass murder is further proof of that.

But you ignore the hundreds of people who report 'odd' things about the particular incident.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I should mention when I refer to the media I am not referring to the phony web-sites that are helping to spread the lies. These sites rely on peoples stupidity and hatred for their very survival. Don't let them fool you. It is all about money and politics. The owner of one of them, Soros, is even trying to buy control of the Whitehouse. I think he may be behind more than a few of these sites. I suspect he may have something to do with Fetzer and the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory. He may have invented the whole thing.

Sounds like you have a conspiracy theory yourself. You should start a thread on this.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Hate is the cause of all the worlds problems. Until everyone realizes this there will be no peace. In fact this board is a breeding ground for hate. I pray that someday this will change but reading the posts on ATS don't give me much hope.

If ATS is so hopeless for you then why do you come here? It suprises me that so many people criticize ATS and its members and then they still post on it all the time. We are here to criticize the theories and debate on them. We try to look for evidence and odd things. We use our brains and our reasoning to draw conclusions. It is our right to do it. Occasionally members get carried away and some unhealthy words are exchanged but so what. Its a part of the debate. We are afterall human. Sometimes we cannot control our emotions. But we still end up having intelligent conversations on this board everyday.

You are right about one thing. Hate is the cause of all problems. Online board gives us all an opportunity to discuss issues with each other and better understand each other. Face to face, people might end up fist fighting but that is not possible online. And the board has strict rules for codes of conduct. This way everyone can express their views in a sensible manner.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The fact that both the Republican and Democrat Parties are overrun by corrupt people makes it even worse. Both Parties are broken beyond repair.

'Broken beyond repair' are the words of a person who has been defeated. Maybe you should start by not supporting Bush and this 'war on terror' because as I see it, Bush has caused the killing of more people than all terrorists combined during his presidency. Maybe you should be more optimistic and try to see things with a different perspective.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by half_minded]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
One thing I need to say about your response. I have had conversations with Muslims who would have answered yes to many of those questions. It is dangerous for you to be blind to that.

I find it hard to believe that any muslim would have answered a Yes to any of those. You might get a yes from 1 out of a 1000 maybe. As i said earlier, muslims are also people. They work, eat, sleep, have sex and raise a family, etc. There are some bad apples but that does not make all muslims evil. Muslims are normal human beings who live normal lives like any of you.

I am a muslim and have lived in US, middle east, india, malaysia and singapore and shortly visited lot of other countries. I love to travel btw. Anyway.....I met hundreds of muslims throughout my life. I know hundreds of them. I have yet to meet one that was aggressive, hated jews, was a murderer or had desire to murder, etc. So you can see why I find your claim very hard to believe.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
You should have said that some Muslims would have answered yes to some of those questions but I am not one of them. Then you would have been honest with me and yourself.

Why would I say something different from what I believe just to suit your needs? Who are you to decide if I am being honest or not? You can merely listen to me and draw you own conclusions about what I have to say but that does not mean you can draw conclusions about me. Afterall we are here to discuss issues and not discuss me.
Maybe we can discuss ME when I create a thread just for the purpose of dicussing ME.

[edit on 17-10-2006 by half_minded]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The fact that both the Republican and Democrat Parties are overrun by corrupt people makes it even worse. Both Parties are broken beyond repair.

Absolutely!

Originally posted by half_minded
That is where we differ in opinion. I think US is creating these 'threats' to have an excuse to invade countries. Some threats mayb be genuine but seriously, do you think Osama could have masterminded such an attack on US. Not to mention the 'official story' of 9/11 has changed so may times.

Osama caught America with its pants down... Plain and simple. It wasnt all that complicated of an attack.. If ppl would have been doing there jobs then the attacks likely would not have suceeded... Sure the terrorist did there homework... They got lucky though.. there was nothing complicated about there attack on september 11 2001...

Now let me get this straight... You think "the US is creating these 'threats' to have an excuse to invade countries."? You may be correct but how many times have terrorist attacked America and american interest without the US(or anyone else for that matter) doing anything about it before 9/11? Its just sad that it took Sept the 11th 2001 for us to wake up and actually do something about this threat... And dont start with "The amrican government is the one responsible for 9/11" Thats bulls***! I am not even going to touch it.......

Originally posted by half_mindedAs a result, people have misconceptions about muslims and as a muslim studying in US I face these problems everyday. People easily shift from issues at hand to name calling and then disrepectful remarks. Thats what pisses me off.

I am sorry that you are being stereotyped... I can understand that pissing you off.. It would piss me off to.. But dont be fooled into thinking these extremist have a reason... Wake up man! We need to destroy these maniacs. You know they killed a nun over the cartoon debacle and as they were killing this poor nun the nun was praying for them and saying she forgives them? WHILE THEY WERE KILLING HER!! Thats the kind of ppl that we are dealing with here.... Insane morons who have no respect for human life!

Originally posted by half_mindedOn top of that people question me and the others as to why WE dont stand up against extremists. Personally I feel the US to be a bigger threat to world peace and human lives then all muslim terrorists combined.

Thats sad..... It really is. The US comes off as a bully at times, i know.... But would we be at war with these extremist if they didnt royally piss us off? They killed over 3,000 ppl back in 2001, and heres the thing... They were innocent hard working ppl that didnt deserve to die... It was just another day, going to work to put food on the table to make a better life for them and there familys.... Its sad... Hate the government all you want BUT LEAVE THE INNOCENT PPL OUT OF IT!!!! They started it... We're going to finish it!