Originally posted by TaupeDragon
I would be grateful if you could answer this question for me: does the concept of the Umma, that is the totality of muslims override national
loyalties? Would you say that you were American first, or a muslim first?
It depends on the situation actually. Ill give you example from my own family. I am from a muslim family from india. As you know, there have always
been tensions between India and Pakistan (which is a muslim country). Even though, they are all the same as Pakistan was part of india before.
Now if there is a conflict on some physical region, then my parents seem to support india but if there is religion conflict then my parents support
I study in US and I have a lot of friends from India of different religion. And when I say lot, I mean a lot. We have this little Indian community
thing going on. And from what I have seen, every muslim guys considers himself Indian first and muslim second. Infact, that goes for the non-muslim
The younger generation is very different now. They have friends from different religions. They are more patriotic towards country first, then
The older people do however seem to be inclined more towards religion.
But hey, the new generation is the one who will shape the future. So, I guess the whole extremism thing in Islam is fading away slowly.
Concept of Umma is very simple. In Islam, there were different prophets for different times and different people. Every prophet had his own set of
followers. He was the messenger for the people, who would guide the people, 'appointed' to him, to the right path. Prophet Mohammad was the last
prophet and it was said that every human being till the end of the world (Judgement Day) is his Umma. Thats why every muslim follows prophet mohammad
and his teachings. Muslims are expected to spread their religion to every soul on earth because everyone is under prophet muhammad's umma. Non-muslim
people are considered as the people who have lost the right path and therefore it is the duty of every muslim to bring everyone to the 'right
So its more like saying that we are human. People consider themselves human first then comes the race and distinction. However, Umma includes every
single person on earth, therefore umma = humans. To answer your question, muslims are required to consider themselves muslims first, everything else
But we all know that its not the case because not every muslim follows islam wholeheartedly. out of those who follow, there are moderates and
Moderates, as I described earlier, look at the situtation first. Extremists however are way too engrossed in Islam and consider every single word in
the Quran as the absolute final word.
Contrary to popular belief, Extremists are rare in number and even out of those, only the uneducated and backward people are the ones who actually
commit murder and use sharia law.
Originally posted by TaupeDragon
I'm not from the US, but now live in Canada and it is my perception that here, at least, people tend to be better integrated into society than the
UK, which is my homeland. Which brings me to my second question:
Do you think that the 'melting pot' of US-style integration is better than the 'multi-cultural' approach in the UK? A recent British poll
appeared to show that at least a small minority of muslims are conflicted when it comes to a war on terrorism.
The link you posted shows a survey. First of all, I do not look at surveys because they dont give the actual picture. Just a few people cannot speak
for the world population.
But notice, I did not say whether the survey was right or wrong.
I agree that many muslims do support the 'terrorists' because in their eyes, the terrorist is US government.
These people do not want the US army in their land. They don't want US dictating them what to do. They don't want US culture affecting them and
destroying their culture. They don't like how US misuses its power.
If you put yourself in their shoes you would understand. Lot of people across America support the Iraq war even though people are dying everyday.
Innocent people. What would you think about them?
If some country puts its military in the US against the will of the people, then wat wud americans do?
People did not like saddam but he was ruling over a country which required someone like him to keep the people from fighting with each other. After US
attacked, there was no one to stop them and now they are fighting (Shia's and Sunnis). US soldiers cannot control them. They are dying too.
Its like India and Pakistan. If it werent for nukes and other countries, these two countries would destroy each other.
If you think that middle east is jealous of american freedom and success then think again. Middle east has so much oil. And these arabs are rich
people. They have nice houses, nice cars, police doesnt touch them, they have a life people could only dream of. Why wud they be jealous of America.
My parents live in Kuwait. There are no taxes in kuwait. Both my bro and dad work in kuwait. They both have free housing, free dental, free health,
free car, free gas, high salary, no tax on salary. Infact, my bro got offers from US and UK but he refused.
This is the benefits given to immigrants. Imagine the benefits, the citizens enjoy. Yet Americans somehow feel that muslims and arabs are jealous of
american freedom and want to attack american because of jealousy.
Its very clear what US is doing. If you look at history and compare the current situation you will get your answer.
Muslims living across the world blend in with society very well. I even created a post titles 'How many muslims you know?'. The post was meant to
see wat an average muslim family is like and to see the opinion of people regarding them.
I was not surprised to see that 99% was positive replies. Which itslef is proof that muslims can blend into society and culture just like anhy other
human being. There are exceptions but then there always are exception.
Muslims have no such problem of living peacefully with their neighbours but they do have a problem when they are constantly being criticized and
looked down upon with suspicion.
[edit on 15-10-2006 by half_minded]