Something needs to be done about members leaving!!!!

A lot of members are leaving ATS. I think something needs to be done to entise people to want to stay. The quality of ATS needs to be higher than it is. Members please give sugestions on what might help.

[Edited on 8-11-2003 by ilovepizza]

Courtesy of William........:
"Wide-open anything goes ATS suggestions thread"
Link:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Excerpt:
"But now that we've added most of the features the forum staff has been discussing for the past year, we're wondering what our members would like? Or, what about ATS's changes over the past two months don't you like?

We have an exceptionally broad and diverse membership, spanning the spectrum from hyper-skeptical (levitationjunkie, I know you're reading this) to overly gullible... from just learning to express oneself, to university professors... and more... someone from every niche is here.

What would you like to see in your favorite online community?"


regards
seekerof

Originally posted by ilovepizza
A lot of members are leaving ATS. I think something needs to be done (...)

We have to immediately kill them, as they apparently know too much

Contact Us

I am serious. I really want to make sure the quality of ATS is at its best.

What the heck are you talking about, ILP? Have you noticed how many peoplelog on to this site every day? I remember when that list wasn't as big as the number of members logged on at this moment.

Furthermore, here's a news flash, it is the members that make the site. It isn't Simon's or Bill's or Bob's job to tap dance or give away new vehicles to entertain the membership. It is the members themselves that make the quality. It is you. Me. All of us. Don't like it? Post quality posts, start quality threads. Complaining about quality doesn't make quality. Building quality into something does it, so pick up a hammer!

As usual, Seekerof, most excellent choice of responses. If you get the time, please go to your referenced link and see the suggestion I just submitted.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks for directing me there!

That YOU are bitching about ILP! HOPEFULLY every member who reads this # will IGNORE it so it GOES TO THE BOTTOM where it belongs!

m...

I do not think it is up to the forum staff to uphold the quality of ATS. I think it is up to the members Thomascrowne. I think all the memebrs have to help in making sure the quality of ATS is good.

Yes Val,
I agree....
Sorry so long in addressing this but was looking for something that William had posted yesterday.....and found it.
I could not and can not say it any better than William said it:

Excerpt:
"William's ATS rant

(caution: rant below)

I've been watching the pissing and moaning about ATS post quality, secrecy of staff, harsh staff, blah-de-blah for far too long now. It's time for the Skeptic Overlord to have his day in the rant forum. If you're feint of heart, on blood thinning medication, prone to being startled, or are scared by large dogs, you'd be best warned not to read further. Having said that disclaimer...


I've been "with" ATS for almost 4 years, and nearly 2 of them as staff... many have been around longer. I've seen all manner of MALE BOVINE SHYTE over the years, and this latest round of me-too complainers is particularly irksome since it is occurring at exactly the same time over 9,000 people are voting in-favor of ATS by the mere fact of spending an average of 35 minutes looking at 18 pages. But I'm getting ahead of myself...

No one expects that long-time senior staff, or senior members, would receive automatic respect from every new or old member. That's far too much to anticipate, and frankly unrealistic. However, from members that have come to understand the ATS hierarchy, we do (myself included) expect "benefit of the doubt". With over 1,300 new posts on some days, it's a significant effort for our current staff to keep things in line. We only average 12 to 14 moderators online during any given day... to expect that we'll review and sanitize every post to baby and coddle every member's sensitivities is both absurd and naive. If you see a crappy post... here's a freaking thought... move on, don't give it any more attention. Ignored posts tend to die.

We have a current crop of newly-active members that couldn't give a rats azz about the effort it takes to maintain this very large online community. It seems as though our newly-active members have no regard for the history of time and effort that has gone into getting ATS to the standard it is today. This doesn't happen by accident, it takes an effort. For a long time, the solitary effort of Simon Gray. But the actions of some members is comparable to being invited to someone's house, eating their food, messing their furniture, then pissing on the carpet as you walk out the door. And then these members still expect to come back tomorrow and do the same thing!

The reason I mentioned my time with ATS was not to impress you, but to establish that I've seen a great deal... and our current crop of newly-active members (less than 6 months of membership, yet daily posters) seem to be the poorest group yet when it comes to an overall understanding and appreciation of what ATS is, and what it takes to keep it that way. Far too much is taken for granted because they haven't experienced the tough periods of constant hack attacks, or slow servers, or outages because ATS exceeded the bandwidth allotment.

So these members too easily over-react to staff action that never before saw this kind of over-reaction. We went through periods where there were daily bannings or deletion of posts. The response from membership was not harsh at all... but appreciative of the vigilance to keep the board clean. And now we're to the point were we have threads complaining about a global ignore on a complete troll... what utter crap! And a member starts a thread designed to incite specific members, and then he becomes enraged when his target responds in-kind. Amazing... carpet pissing!

Are we perfect? No.
Are we trying? Yes.
Because of our effort, should we get some leniency from members? Absolutely.
Are we? Rarely.

Have some mods taken their position too seriously from time to time? Sure. Have I been included in that? Certainly. But I can assure you that each one of our staff is on the job because the mission of ATS is important to them, not because they love the power-trip of deleting posts and handing out warnings. Lately, it seems that many of our newly-active members have a mission of simply standing against authority of any kind... even if it means disrupting the goals of ATS.

In the end, it's not the responsibility of the staff to keep up the quality of posts for you and hold your little hands and lead you to the better forums with the better posts. ATS is not here to do something for you, make your life better, provide great stuff, or even improve your complexion. You get out of ATS what you put into it, and if all you put into it is bickering, pissing-and-moaning, complaining, and pissing-on-carpets... that's exactly what you're going to get out of it.


(end of rant)"

Link to topic and comments:
www.belowtopsecret.com...


regards
seekerof

Originally posted by ilovepizza
I do not think it is up to the forum staff to uphold the quality of ATS. I think it is up to the members Thomascrowne. I think all the memebrs have to help in making sure the quality of ATS is good.

Seriously � we have to think about our community not about those who goes out of it. We have to make all efforts to make this place better for us.
I don�t care about those who are leaving�.

Link >>>
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ilovepizza
A lot of members are leaving ATS. I think something needs to be done to entise people to want to stay. The quality of ATS needs to be higher than it is. Members please give sugestions on what might help.

[Edited on 8-11-2003 by ilovepizza]

Too alarmist ILP. You're listening too much to the so-called nay-sayers. Read Valhall's most recent blog entry... it will open your eyes.

We are experiencing the crest of a wave. We've always had cycles where members come and go in groups, it's natural. Only now, with an average of over 400 members visiting every day, it gets noticed when 5% start to complain.

Originally posted by ilovepizza
I do not think it is up to the forum staff to uphold the quality of ATS. I think it is up to the members Thomascrowne. I think all the memebrs have to help in making sure the quality of ATS is good.

yes yes yes...

with less whining and more stellar posts...

[/hint]



now....STFU and press on. all you can really do is improve your own posts. we all have our jobs, whining isnt allowed, called for or wanted so save it and put your energy into leading by example instead of creating the umpteenth thread on how ATS quality is down.

remember grasshopper, less whining, more posting of interesting subjects.

at least try to be entertaining. and you ARE being too alarmist.

so if you are really concerned about the quality then do something about it besides complaining. we've heard it before a billion times.


the chicken little BS threads around here are getting annoying......

Originally posted by Seekerof
I could not and can not say it any better than William said it:

Hey thanks! I also like this little rant posted earlier, which I think inspired Valhall's excellent recent blog entry:


Cycles.

I've been online for quite some time, and much of it, I've been involved with collaborative virtual communities like this one. From conspiracy and art forums on Compuserve, though list-serve e-mail discussion lists, to web based discussion boards.

Over and over again, we see a common cycle where a new member discovers a community and at first is overjoyed and enamored with the new-found kindred spirits collaborating online. At first, it seems as though a wealth of information is a click away. The new members participate, and help continue to build the community.

But after time, some members become familiar with the community, and mistake this familiarity with sameness, or dullness. Indeed, it seems that many of the posts that first attracted you, often get repeated by new users who have arrived some months after your arrival.

More often than not, many members end up fading away as they burn-out or find nothing new that interests them. But a precious few members keep coming back, continually inspired by the passion that first began their involvement. These long-term members don't see repeated topics by new-comers as an irritant, but instead, potential new or alternate thinking on an old topic. All communities need new blood, and the blood of virtual communities such as this are ideas and opinions.

So... are you one who flashes and fades? Or someone who remains because the long hunt is more important than the quick snare?

Although on one hand hysterical threads like this are not good. On the other they give the opportunity to show that we are NOT dying.

Sure people come and go, its cyclic, but I guarentee that a year from now the board will STILL be here and will still have many posters.

Two things come to mind about this ILP.

Firstly we cannot force people to stay, if they stay and are not happy we get dissent and discord and, as we have seen, the board goes crap. Better that these people move on to a place where they can be in peace. You can think of many posters here who have left who were here just to cause trouble.

Secondly the people who DO move often benefit the board as well by culling out the deadheads. Note with Annie leaving to the other board that the average IQ of both ATS and the other board increased. Examples like this show the benefit of people taking a hike.

Boards fluctuate up and down, when you get a critical mass of critical messes then there just needs to be a spark to cause an explosion. DR was the spark in this case, all it did was weed out those who really wanted to go anyway, but didn't have the incentive.

One of the benefits of the movement of members has been for us an almost nill need to moderate posts, a pleasant situation to be in.






[Edited on 8-11-2003 by Netchicken]

No one has really left. A few of us have gone to join other boards, but we still are here. We just post on multiple forums now, for variety. Some have left. But things change. Eventually something will come up here and it will get active again.

I joined a couple other boards because I wanted a broader base of information to check out certain news issues i am following, and to get more variety. But Im still here on ats, and so are alot of other people.

One way of hellping the quality of posts is by refraining from posting repetive, pointless, hysetrical, and overdiscussed topics.
\
Or lame ones, like what kind of Pizza do NWOs eat.

The Moderators might want to kick some people who aren't exactly contributing to ATS.

BTS might have some effect on ATS, not good in my case.

If people want to leave let them .

Nobody leaves, unless they are banned.

There are just differing levels of ATS addiction.

Most recent departure, posting one day after that announcement: bigsage.

Other notables who have gone, come back, gone, come back, gone, quietly or amidst fanfare ... OnlyInMyDreams, Illmatic67, dragonrider, Banshee... lots more.

The feedback loop is improving all the time.

Stick around for more, and think through how appropriate or otherwise it is to talk about members "leaving" when they haven't, and when their legacy and history is here for you to see any time you want anyway.

...the more things change..



also, I liked tc's idea of a tapdancing bob.

So break out the shoes bobby boy, you're going on tour.

Well perhaps one of the problems with quality is that it seems that some quality posts die (fall off front page real quick - unread and unresponded). Let me tell you a story about quality posts. Some time ago I started a topic called the "Unskeptical Skeptic - Part 1" for the old Religion and Spirituality Forum. It was an article that represented two weeks research and writing. The topic got combined into another thread by a moderator. I was quite upset. I made another topic called "The Unskeptical Skeptic - Revised". This represent a full day of writing. It died also (got maybe 4 responses). Then I generated a topic called the "70 Weeks of Daniel" which was the culmination of researching 50 web pages dealing with the subject. It got about four or five responses. Then I found a web page, linked to it with a comment and that thread got about 125 responses. That topic posting took me less than 10 minutes to generate. You think after that experience I am going to spend much time generating well researched and documented articles. Hell no. I see a tendency of some posters generate a topic by a single link to a web page with one or two lines of comment. A real offender to that approach was mentioned in a previous post. Hell if I were to do that, I could post 20 to 30 topics a day. The point has been made already. If you want quality posts, then write quality posts. If you see quality posts, then support those posts with good replies. I have seen some crap post (such as the "Kill God" thread) draw over a hundred replies while a good post on the same forum ends up on the third page in short order.