It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Where have all the possibilities gone??

page: 3
0
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 31 2003 @ 09:08 AM
link   
Honestly Toltec, your posts are so riddled or short that it is hard to focus on anything. I understand what the passage is saying, but if you are talking about separation of form and thought then you are taking the standpoint of Plato. I personally believe that form and thought are one... such as mass and energy are one. The separation of the two is pointless. I actually believe that all things are One. I'm a pantheist, in so many words, so everything in existance is just a new manifestation of one entity. I'll try to prove it one day, but not today
. What specifically are you trying to get at?




posted on Jan, 31 2003 @ 10:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by William

Originally posted by Protector

Aethism: These guys don't have the will to have an imagination, or faith, or belief in really complex things. A *cough* "faith" *cough* based on 'not believing'.... which is odd in itself. Seems one dimensional in a 3+ dimensional world.



My... how much you type.

And how little you know.


Why the hell do you personally attack your own members?!?!?!?!?!?!
I don't understand why a MODERATOR would personally attack one of their members......PLEASE EXPLAIN



posted on Jan, 31 2003 @ 10:12 AM
link   
Jebuz! You're the ADMINISTRATOR and your blasting one of you members?!?!? Yeah, I can tell by your attitude you're a New Yorker-how disrespectful you are by blasting someone elses opinion!!!!



posted on Jan, 31 2003 @ 07:37 PM
link   


Let the symbols which represent the form in thought be your guide. Honestly Protector does the term mantra need be regulated to only the images presented in art!

The technuiqes you are taught are in themselves symbols of meaning.

What holds together the atoms in your brain?
What are the thoughts you have and how do they express themselves?

What is an archetype?

This is not grade school Protector
Focus



posted on Jan, 31 2003 @ 08:34 PM
link   


Let the symbols which represent the form in thought be your guide. Honestly Protector does the term mantra need be regulated to only the images presented in art!


A mantra is a type of religious practice for the most part. I'm not religious. I really don't care whether mantra's are regulated to the images in art, or not. I hardly understand how you are attempting to compare a guide to my ideas symbolic form representation.



The technuiqes you are taught are in themselves symbols of meaning.


Ok, I'll buy it. I experience lessons in my techniques all the time, especially in my martial arts training. Either you believe I'm a novice, or a fool, but I assure you, I am neither.



What holds together the atoms in your brain?
What are the thoughts you have and how do they express themselves?


Atomic forces, same as all of the other atoms in the universe. I have a very high IQ, so I'd say I have a lot more thoughts than most people, ranging from new laws for physics to the better understanding of interpersonal relationships. They don't express themselves... they ARE who I am. We are both what we eat and think
.



What is an archetype?


A prototype, an idea, an original model is an archetype. That definition pretty much sums up my views of the universe... abstractly of course.



This is not grade school Protector
Focus


I assure you that I am often the teacher or the tutor. Your assumptions that I'm not intelligent enough, or wise enough, to get your points is completely irrelavant and false. My focus runs inexplicably deep, but as I've said before, I'm not a passive learner.

As for you, the cryptic messages and vague explanations make me wonder how far along you have made it on your unique path to understand God and the universe. Perhaps I am not the only one who needs some help on my journey
.



posted on Jan, 31 2003 @ 08:34 PM
link   
Protector the reason the universe will never reach an equilibrium, is due to many reasons...but the easiest I can come up with is the "Shape of the Universe".

And the easiest way I can explain that is this...we don't know where the center of the universe is, because from our vantage point, as in every vantage point, it is where you are, that is the center.

This rules out the "Spherical" shape of the universe, which is the only shape that can support knowing your exact location in relation to the center, that shape is the ONLY shape that supports an equilibrium where the universe stops expanding and doesn't contract.

So therefore the shape is either a saddle (less than 180 degrees in a triangle) or is flat (equal to 180 degrees in a triangle) now scientists said for fact not long ago that the universe was flat, but this has been retracted and they are back to debating if it is flat or a saddle.

They know it's not a sphere, but they don't know which of the other 2 possibilites it is...so they don't know the exact fate of the universe yet.

Also dark matter plays an important factor and such, but I'm not too knowledgeable on that other than that they feel that it is like "anti-gravity" and if there is more of it we'll continue to expand, if there is less we'll collapse, so on...also that the amount of anti-matter affects our shape and this also was a part of the proof that the universe was flat (something like there was enough anti-matter to balance out the matter and make us flat) but as we know they are debating that issue again anyways so there's no relevance yet.

In any case, the universe will not meet an equilibrium, for the same reasons an equilibrium can not be obtained in chemistry, when the temperature is constantly changing.

Our universe is a reaction that will be pushed one way or the other, by Dark Matter, but we don't know if Dark Matter is "Cold" or "Hot" (considering how temperatures affect equilibriums)

Sincerely,
no signature



posted on Jan, 31 2003 @ 09:21 PM
link   
I like your explanation, and yes I know these current views for the possible shapes of the universe. We still don't know if we are connected to some sort of multiverse, therefore we could run similar to a battery. We also don't know if we are on the right track to determining the shape of the universe... we can't really see the edges of it, we can only assume where they might be. We don't know what dark matter or dark energy is, so it is hard to draw conclusions about its effects. Antimatter is a big issue that should be solved in the next couple years and I'm very excited to hear what comes of those experiments.

A common saying in science is, "everything you know will be wrong in 10 years." That gives the shape of the universe an open book (with blank pages) to work with. Maybe one day we can plant nanites in our brains to help us think and retain information at ungodly rates, but until then, we'll have to trudge along, looking for partial answers, loop holes, and better explanations.



posted on Jan, 31 2003 @ 09:46 PM
link   
Not at all defensive and do not consider you stupid or incapable of understanding. This is being why I presented the issues I wanted you to understand in the way I did (originally understood).

Your brain when it thinks generates Electro-magnetic fields. In relation to Archetypes and symbols of meaning these, like anything else one is capable of thinking form specific patterns. Which theoretically can be relatable to other types of EM fields such as those related to structure (physiology, molecular bonds).

It sounds like perhaps you are overstating yourself and are the one who is defensive. And perhaps as far as what you claim to know perhaps respect is was never included in your training.

The martial arts training you received (or at least claim to have received) are not just ways to deal with an opponent. They are the reuslt of thousands of years of development. And incorporated in the form is a meaning specific to spiritual awareness.


I do not know why you chose to respond to me they way you did. And to be honest the farthest thing from my mind was to belittle you. Hope that in the future we can have conversation without such assumptions soiling the conversation.



posted on Feb, 1 2003 @ 12:05 PM
link   
I appologize for my false assumption, but because I do not actually know you, I have to come up with empty conclusions about your implications. As far as respect goes, I believe respect is earned, and the benefit of the doubt is given, but nothing else. Respect can be used for deceit, fear, and misinformation. Because of this, I do not blindly accept "respect" as a good answer to a conflict. A scientist will respect "findings," but also question and test their validity. I was attempting to do the same. When relating respect to my martial arts training, I was taught respect from the beginning, but I was also taught to never be a fool... perhaps a more important lesson in itself. We always separated the test environment of the dojo with the dangerous environment of real life (the dojo could be dangerous too
). I do get defensive, as a defense mechanism, because I rarely open my mouth unless I am going to speak the truth, or what I perceive it to be.

One thing I should warn you of: I do not tend to learn like most other people. I absorb information very quickly, but I try never to relate it to personal experiences... instead I categorize it. Learning this information in the same way you did will be virtually impossible for me, that is why your methods seemed to put me on the defensive.

As far as EM fields in the brain... oh how I hate biology and physiology... I know that organic links are formed between certain areas of the brain responsible for various tasks. Once nerve bundles become large enough and make enough links, the brain tends to work much faster and more efficiently. I know that the brain produces AM radio waves, and perhaps FM as well. The EM waves you speak of are probably these. I'm sure there is a lot more complexity to the brain, but since I hate biology, I don't give a hoot :p.

Linking symbolic meaning into specific forms and patterns do work well, but it still varies from person to person. Also, specific cases also require memorization, which is my weak point in learning. I learn concepts and derive answers instead of memorizing them.



(Martial arts) And incorporated in the form is a meaning specific to spiritual awareness.


I once thought I respected much of this, but sometimes religious overcomes spiritual awareness and therefore some of the teachings become very clouded. Probably the most useful book in learning much of this spiritual awareness was from a book by David Carradine. It is called, "The Spirit of Shaolin." This was the book where I learned to respect spiritual teachings (not religious) within martial arts as a way of enhancing and expanding the training. Honestly, because he was an actor, I assumed that the book would be a waste of time. I would actually buy it if I saw it in a store, at this point. What are your thoughts on this quote of yours?



Hope that in the future we can have conversation without such assumptions soiling the conversation.


And I do as well, but small arguments make us humans, emotional beings, and those who seek truth through the lies. I do not regret our lack of understanding for one another, because it only builds respect for each other in the long run. If you get a chance, go get your hands on that book and perhaps you'll be pleased with its insight.



posted on Feb, 1 2003 @ 04:49 PM
link   
I can live with that and also want to apologize if I seemed harsh (I can be that way when I observe a person who shows promise). It was not my intent to offend.

No have not read the book but I will



Heaven and Earth are not humane,
And regard the people as straw dogs.
The sage is not humane,
And regards all things as straw dogs.
The space between Heaven and Earth is just like a bellows:
Empty it, it is not exhausted.
Squeeze it and more comes out.

Investigating it with a lot of talk
Is not like holding to the center


You wanted to know if there was anything else out there? My next response is to ask you is there anything else inside you?

When you train under a Master you are taught initially a series of moves, each one is later shown how together they form a response to an attack. This is no different that say playing chess and having learned the various defenses and attacks strategies. Which are popular and well known to those who make chess and personal hobby. Fact of the matter is when watching a martial arts film and two or more opponents are fighting. More that likely the format of each fight is based on ancient as well as modern, well formatted attack/defense strategies (again this is no different than a game of chess).

However in relation to the higher forms of martial arts such as Nimpo Karumijutsu. The technique taught are much more than formats of attack and defense, they are a sort of combination. Which in the mind act in much the same way your keyboard works in relation to your computer (though consider its more like trying to use Windows XP without a mouse).

From my perspective those who are aware and conscious are the fruit this Universe brings forth.

But of course there is no reason for me to deny the straw dog theory



posted on Feb, 1 2003 @ 09:40 PM
link   
Is that quote from the Tao? It seems like I have read that before. I could be a big fat liar, but that really does sound familiar. The title refers to my likings of shows with ducks. I grew up on Duck Tales, Dark Wing Duck, Howard the Duck, etc.


"The space between Heaven and Earth is just like a bellows:
Empty it, it is not exhausted.
Squeeze it and more comes out."


This is an interesting quote. Not sure that I have any comment about it, though... haven't processed it all just yet.

Is there anything else inside of me? That is a question I rarely ponder. For the most part, I feel empty. So, I don't ask myself that question ... I rather not go down some roads at this point. That might not sound positive, but I know that I still have many questions left to answer and many answer to find that don't yet have questions, so I am certainly not "full." Fortunitely, I'm starting to learn to enjoy the journey. It has been years since I have thought this clearly. I'm learning to cope with my emptiness for the first time... and instead of seeing it as a downfall, I'm using it as a stepping stool. In the last month, I just learned to like myself again for the first time in about... ???... .... ... 11 years.


"When you train under a Master you are taught initially a series of moves, each one is later shown how together they form a response to an attack. This is no different that say playing chess and having learned the various defenses and attacks strategies. ... More that likely the format of each fight is based on ancient as well as modern, well formatted attack/defense strategies."


Actually, I was trained under a Grandmaster
. He started his own art, but he was a certified 6th degree black belt. He had a very street effective style combinating Wing Chun, Karate, Kempo, and Jujitsu for the most part. It also including some Sumo, Judo, and ancient Samurai techniques that he picked up somewhere along the way.

Getting back to the point, I do understand what you are saying about the combinations. Many of our attacks were a combination of well known tactics as well as free flowing responses that we would naturally have. Sometimes there was format, while other times there was not.


"The technique taught are much more than formats of attack and defense, they are a sort of combination. Which in the mind act in much the same way your keyboard works in relation to your computer (though consider its more like trying to use Windows XP without a mouse)."


I think I followed that. We were taught to practice until the response came naturally. It is a fairly effective tool, such as keyboarding (the skill) to relate to your example. As a whole, you probably know more about the combinations and the links to the mind than I do.


"From my perspective those who are aware and conscious are the fruit this Universe brings forth."


I have a feeling that this statement implies more than you are letting on. Do tell.


"But of course there is no reason for me to deny the straw dog theory"


I'm not sure that I even get what a straw dog really is, or what it is suppose to represent in that passage.



posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 02:10 AM
link   
Yes it is from the Tao as far as what is generally accepted today in relation to our insides, might I suggest this link.....

www.nonlocal.com...

If you would like more on this subject the next link is Hameroffs homepage.

www.consciousness.arizona.edu...

If you still want more, to be honest have spent so far about 7 hours looking at this next site and have still not finished it. Not only is it the origin of my avatar but somewhere in there is the mathematical calculations which present time squared (t^2) as being equivalent to the C^2 component in relation to E=mc^2.

www.innerx.net...

Protector the sage knows that everything is a straw dog because people are straw dogs to the earth and the heavens.



posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 06:37 PM
link   
I still don't know what a straw dog is.

I have not had time to look threw those sites, but I did bookmark them so that I can go back to them later on.

I'm not sure if I have offered this link before, but here is a list of famous sayings:

www.rit.edu...

Many of the sayings are priceless. I hope you like them and get a chance to go through them.

Mind if I ask a personal question? What do you do for a living? Career field or specific job? I'm just curious. You seem to be interested in physics, philosophy, perhaps biology, and ... other stuff
.



posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 07:28 PM
link   
My B.A. is in Psychology (minored in Religion) and Masters is in Crisis Intervention. I ran a school for several years for adolecents with criminal backgrounds but my primary role is as a therapist and case manager.

I am of Taino Indian and Japanese decent, as
a reusult from a very early age (3). Was trained in
the understadning of both cultures. I am well read
in many different areas including the ones you have mentioned.



posted on Feb, 2 2003 @ 09:57 PM
link   
That's cool. I figured you had a good background if you knew all of the information that you seem to give out all of the time.

As a religious question, knowing all of the philosophers that have wondered whether God was evil, what do you think in regards to their explanations? I do not personally believe God is evil, but for all of the evil that exists, I believe I lack a better explanation. What are your thoughts on this?

Secondly, do you know of many variations within the Nimpo arts? My brother and I argue about the validity of today's ninja and nimpo practioners. He believes almost all of the art is lost, while I believe a large part of it remains hidden. We, perhaps idiotically, compare today's open ninja training with movies like "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" and wonder if anything relative to that actually exists. I know quite a bit about poisons, foot techniques, hiding, equipment tactics, weapons, and general fighting styles of the Nimpo and Ninja, but outside of that realm everything else is myth or legend. From your knowledge, what are your opinions of esoteric aspects? Physics, spirit, or magic? Is it a lie or a combination? I'm just interested is all.

Personally, I believe in great powers beyond what we see on a daily basis. I don't know how to tap these, let alone if we should be allowed, but I've tasted of the vast power of the universe and it is nearly inexplicable. To what extint I will ever be able to truly understand that power is beyond me. I do not consider myself a power monger, so I keep my practice of esoteric ideals to a relative minimum. I would like to do Tai Chi, however
.



posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 08:37 AM
link   
I got a chance to look through those sites you recommended. One of them wasn't that interesting to me, but the long one is very intriguing. I'm sure it will take me at least 7 hours to go through it all. Thanks for the links.

Also, I made a "wishlist" on amazon of books I'd like you to look at and tell me what you think... whether they might be useful, interesting, a complete waste of time, etc. You can be brutally honest
. This link should work:

Wish list

Thanks.

[Edited on 3-2-2003 by Protector]



posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 04:49 PM
link   
Let begin with the issue of above normal strength, if a person can break 15 bricks with his hand can he stand on his hands and walk with his fingers? Can he jump distances, which would put Olympic athletes to shame?

The answer is yes because the capacity to do anyone of these things is equivalent and given that a person can do one. The others simply require the ability to focus
that capacity to other forms of work.

The legends portend most often to Ninjas having the ability to look at a mechanical devise. And without ever having seen it before become aware of how to operate it. There is also mention that Ninja's have the ability to exit there bodies spiritually (more that just astral travel or OBEs as they are commonly experienced as they are supposed to be able to manipulate solid objects while in this state).

In regards to the former there is really not much difference between this and remote viewing I would suggest you look into the subject on the net but pay no one for the service of teaching you. Out of body experiences as are described in the later is an issue all to its own. As I understand it the methodology which makes this possible has not been forgotten. However access to such understanding is limited to the most serious of adepts.

In relation to the other matters with regard to magic and paranormal capacities keep in mind the Shamanic practices. They do apply equally as well to the culture in question in relation to history, as they do to most other cultures.

In relation to your wish list I would go with numbers 4,13 and 11 and 9. Did you know that the Hindu's practiced techniques in accu-pressure in relation to medical treatment? Its a better source of information than what is presented in 2.

What are your thoughts?



posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 06:09 PM
link   
I added 2 more books to that list... they should be at the beginning. They seem somewhat interesting in my opinion. The same link above will work for the new list.

Question: What is that darn "straw dog?"


You have an interesting way of looking at the "supernatural." I do like that word because it isn't beyond nature, just a "super-sized" version of it
.

I'll leave all of the mystical ninja stuff to the ninjas.. unless I become one some day
.

"In relation to your wish list I would go with numbers 4,13 and 11 and 9. Did you know that the Hindu's practiced techniques in accu-pressure in relation to medical treatment? Its a better source of information than what is presented in 2."

Any particular reason why you recommended some of those books over the others? I do agree that a couple of them look like a great book for me to dive into at this point, but all of them seem quite useful in some form or another. As far as accupressure, this is a hard subject to get good information on. I do know about accupressure and I'm actually quite good at chiropractics... from experience. Thanks for the input. Feel free to add anything to that wishlist if it lets you. It is just a generic account that I created, anyhow.



posted on Feb, 3 2003 @ 09:44 PM
link   
That word "secret' in a title is often overstating what is presented. Not sure about the one which is called Steal my art it probably is rip off
Books written about oriental practices which use phrases like Spirit of Classic Internal are usual so when they are fiction. Less is more when interested looking at something that will teach you such practices (especially if your going to pay for it). Have you ever read Zen and Motorcycle Maintenance my impression is that is a much better book than Zen and Martial arts.

1 and 2 in this new list seem like they would be interesting.



posted on Feb, 4 2003 @ 04:25 PM
link   
Yes, I misspelled that on purpose
. Since you wouldn't tell me what a straw dog was, I decided to find a website that could make some sense
:

www7.gateway.ne.jp...

Now you too can learn about straw dogs.

In fact, for all you lazy people that might be reading this:

"A 'straw dog' is an ornament used during a Chinese funeral ceremony, something that is discarded and trampled underfoot and thrown away when the ceremony ends, just as life itself discards us."


I have noticed that using "secret" does often lessen the material presented. I would probably go to a school called "I Stole Your Art," just to see how much the instructor got out of it
. I'd be sure to get a temporary membership
. Less is more, eh? I don't know. I think the best way to say that is, "Less is as much as you will get, so Less is Most." I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but ah well. I have heard about Zen Motorcycle Repair, or whatever you called it, but "no" I have not read it.

"1 and 2 in this new list seem like they would be interesting."

I agree, because they seem like they would have "less" and therefore "more" at the same time. Maybe it isn't a "secret" that makes you great, but an entire repitour' (sp?) of knowledge, skills, faith, and practice that combine into the "secret" that no one ever really seems to know about. That makes me believe that the people who made the Matrix probably have a better understanding of the "secret arts," not because they made the movie with wires and bungie cords, but because they used the philosophy, the possibility, the physical skills, the "Believe in yourself, Neo," and the application of the skills. Of course, I do understand that the Matrix is a movie, but in essence, it is exactly what we should strive to do in order to come to real answers to such "secret" problems. It's just something to think on.




top topics



 
0
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join