For all the Athiests.........

LordBaskett,
If somebody is enlightened, that does not make them perfect, hence the spelling. Books have 99.9% grammer accuracy because there are people/software the specialize in editing, and this is not a book, just me trying to get my comments out as quick as possible, since it is 5:00 am in the states.

The difference between me and a bum is that I am not claiming to be God or to be Jesus. When this happened I wasn't on any drugs or alcohol, it was a natural process that was a result of following Biblical excercises and meditations and has been with me for over a few years now.

Like I said earlier, it's subjective, so the only way I can prove that I am "there" is by two ways.

1. I get you "there" to see for yourself.
or
2. I produce enough literature about my experieince and using transcendent themes to speak of the regularities of life and spirituality that many can have no doubt as to my claim.

Of course not everybody believed any of the Enlightened Yogi's, not everybody believed Jesus' claim, not everyone will ever believe me, nor everyone else that was ever enlightened.

I have some books in the works with interested publishers, and I'm currenty working on publishing a mathematical theory of everything, the one einstein was looking for. But that's besides the point. All these things are possible for me to do now because God granted me Enlightenment, and I humbly except, all ego aside even though I did just boast a little.

My great works, if I can call them that, are in progress. Do you think all the enlightened people only existed a long time ago? Do you think it is not possible for someone to be enlightened in this day and age? Do you think it is impossible for someone to be enlightened and to post on this meassge board? Don't you think it took time for all of those that were enlightened and wrote books, to get published?

I have taken peyote and shrooms in my teenage years, and it's been over 10 years now since I touched any of the stuff. None of those things allow you to remain in Enlightenment for over a few years. Mine was directly from spiritual practices. There isn't enough drugs of any kind in the world to come close to what I and many others have gone through from becoming one with God through Biblical practices.

Love

Originally posted by dominicus
There are more agruments that are in favor of the existence of God then there are for the non-existance side.

Hmmm...lets settle this once and for all. Call down your God and let him speak to us openly.
An all powerful being that is everywhere, etc. surely has shown "itself" to someone with witnesses.
(More like across the globe)

Obviously we all got here some how...and the "God" got here somehow to.
Saying we are all God (part thereof) how did it all start. (Time really is the issue that hangs things up.) But Im thinking within the realm of time (start and end)

The evangelical Christian idea of God, though based probably on some concept of truth in the way its presented cannot be factual or it would be running things here and communicating clearly with its creatures.

Anyway.

Peace to all

Dalen

Nephyx,
I don't worship the Bible and you are not comprehending my arguments. The purpose of the Bible is to guide a person to reach this Enlightenment and know God personally and tangibly. Of course there is alot of spirtual work a person has to do, as well as come to terms with some things in there, all of which can be dedacted to a incorruptable truth.

It's a mind over matter deal. You begin reprogramming yourself, for example, with Proverbs, all of which is a book of thouands of jewels of knowledge. The more you begin to live by these jewels, question them, examine them,, eat, sleep, breath, these little jewels, they get you closer and closer and you can actually see with your physical eyes that things are starting to change on your path to God. It is simply putting precepts to practice. It was never about attending Church on Sunday's and being Holy for 1 hour, then going back to your regular self on Monday.

That is simply your corrupted view that I have a feeble attempt. A corrupted view that the core excercises and knowledge of the Bible is lunacy. So you gave it a half assed shot for 14 years and never got anything out of it. Seems like your leaking skepticism out of your pores in all areas of life.

Until you have trully applied Biblical precepts to your life for over a year and gotten to enlightenment, your just an outsider skeptic. Believe me, I'm the epitome of the opposite of ignorance.

You say I don't know anything about God and that I pretend to know !!!! Have you even thought about this argument and how in the world you can possibly support this claim. I can write 30 pages as to how that wouldn't make sense based on what I claim. Besides, what is my motivation then, if I have no propoganda to offer what-so-ever?

Like I said a million times. It is subjective, and there are 2 ways to prove it. If you're comparing me to those New York Megaphone crazies, then I can compare you to the billions of spiritually blind people who know nothing. Until you've expereinced Amthew 6:22, technically you shouldn't even be discussing these subjects. But, since you are valuable in the mix of the whole play, it is important for you to be having this argument with me.

Yes, many Christians have found the same things, secrets, in the Bible that I have found. I am not the first, nor am I the only enlightened person on the planet. There are others. I am no exception and I am not "the" holy interpreter.

I still have Love for you and care deeply about why you have these views and completely abolish the flip-side to everyone of your comments, ideas, beliefs.

.....................................................................................................................
LordBaskett,
You could drive up here, or we can exchange numbers and talk over the phone. It does take time to reach enlightenment. Took me 14 months of srong spiritual excercises and discipline. PM me if you want to take this further.

"There isn't enough drugs of any kind in the world to come close to what I and many others have gone through from becoming one with God through Biblical practices."

That is a false statment, and I will tell you why I belive that. First let us talk about meditation. Basicly at some point you learn to keep the mind active, while the body shuts down. This is when it gets fun. Your body, the physical part including most motor fuctions(if not all), turn off completely. This causes the brain to release '___' because it belives that it is asleep. This '___' causes the same if not more vivid effects as shrooms/peyote/acid whatever you can think of. You meditate(learned awareness through consistent practice), your body not your awareness shuts off, and finaly you'er still "awake" to see some sweet visuals....call them "God" "The Great Eagle" "The Divine Architect", or even sleep paralysis in some cases. How does the bible equate for the scientific explanation? In Buddhism, they give explicit instuctions to "not pay attention to the illusions experienced in meditative state". Are you not falling prey to these exact illusions. Explanations on your beliefs should not cost the price of a book, and you should be able to defend your views for some very basic questions that I have asked.

Originally posted by dominicus
Until you have trully applied Biblical precepts to your life for over a year and gotten to enlightenment, your just an outsider skeptic. Believe me, I'm the epitome of the opposite of ignorance.

Yes, many Christians have found the same things, secrets, in the Bible that I have found. I am not the first, nor am I the only enlightened person on the planet. There are others. I am no exception and I am not "the" holy interpreter.

The Book of Invisibility.

Fragments of the Book are sometimes stumbled upon by lucky people: geeks, seers, lunatics, gold diggers, plain thinkers and visionaries but when they come to describe their experience to others they unfortunately cloak their wonder in too much vanity and importance so that the Book’s Words remain Invisible.

dAlen,
God is Omni-Present. It is one of the mysteries that is completely comprehensible upon enlightenment. It is one of the most beautiful mysteries of God. God is everywhere and no-where. In a sense, everything that exists, is God expereinceing God's self through every imaginable possibility. If you can grasp that, you can face God in more ways then one. There are also direct expereinces such those that happen during meditations or deep prayer, where there are things taking place between you and the Maker, many of which I cannot speak of here.

What would the purpose be of my convincing God to show himself to everybody? Yes, many people would believe, but just as many would argue that it was a David Copperfield trick or some kind of Illusion. Wrap your mind aroubd omnipresence for a few months then you'll have more insight.

You think God got here because we live in the main-frame of time. God operates outside of time. Meaning God has always existed, there was never time that God didn't exist. This is another fact that is completely comprehensible upon enlightenment. Time started soon as God began to create. Soon as an object outside of himself was created, it meant the automatic creation of time.

We are souls in a body. Our souls are infinite. So to live in the present moment at all times and to grasp the concept of eternity, simply imagine a world where there is no such thing as death and clocks. These are all transcendent logistics.

You said:
"The evangelical Christian idea of God, though based probably on some concept of truth in the way its presented cannot be factual or it would be running things here and communicating clearly with its creatures."

Can you prove this? Can you prove this theoretically? From what I claim and the way my life was turned upside down when I reached my current state, I have direct communication in a sort of additional spiritual sense, which I never had until reaching this state. Many times there are audible things, but these events happen during deep prayer/meditation. But I have a communication channel open with my Maker, one which I may ask for certain things and they become manifest within days, let alone other things I'm not obligated to talk about at this time.

If you want to experience this enlightenment, you have to spiritually work for it. If I go to the gym only once, I'll feel it the next day, but I won't see any changes. But if I keep at it for 6+ months, not only will I see the and feel the changes, but others will also comment that I have gotten in shape. Work out hard for over a year and you reach an ideal peak physical shape that your body attains. That peak, spiritually is this enlightenment.

LordBaskett,
The pineal gland, which is located in the center of your brain, produces '___' naturally. These visions can be explained scientifically, so what !!!!!! Everthing that exists including God can be explained scientifically, but our level of science is far from that. God has his own level of science that as beyond anything, and yet can be comprehended either in the after life, or to whom ever is able to ascend to such hieghts to be able to know that.

You can google '___', pineal, spirituality all day. There are some rather cool articles and literature based on this subject, but does not come close to justifying allot fo things. Perhaps '___' is a precursor to certain spiritual powers who knows, for now. One of the things about Enlightenment is that there are things experienced beyond any visions or audible sounds. They are internal and some-times physical as well. '___' is still up in the air at this point, and I have so far backed up, to the best possible sense of the word, everything I claim. I'm not 1 way or the other when it comes to dmt, but have experienced both it and spiritual enlightenment, big difference !!!!!!!

....................................................................................................................
Ersatz,
Trying to describe arguments and experieinces based on using transcendence to some-one who doesn't have transcendence, is like trying to explain Quantumm Mechanics to a two year old. Only individuals who have these additional faculties can slowly begin to understand each other at this level, and yet even then, it is almost impossible to find words that can explain something at this mind boggling state.

I am in no way claoking anything in vanity or importance. One of the key steps to reaching enlightenment is humbleness and humility. How can I even publicaly use those words????? The thing is, there are certain steps you take with the Biblical precepts/knowledge/lessons, like you wouldn't jump to calculus without learning standard math. Until you are living/breathing certain Biblical ways, there is no way to jump to the next set of ways, all of which lead you "there." There are no short-cuts.

Call it what you want, but again until you have completely immersed yourself and tried it out, you can't say it doesnt work. It requires you using 100% of your Love and devotion towards 1 thing, then after living this way for a certain period, reality crumbles to reveal something different.

Your view/attitude towards this is one way, and my attitude/view is another. I know for a fact that I'm not wrong cause I've tried it and I'm "here." I have no motivational factors to claim these things. If it was ego based, I wouldn't open myself up to take shots, I'm not selling anything, and my books are far from done.

I'm simply giving you an alternative view into enlightenment, an alternative way of thinking/being. A reality check of sorts. It's an eye opener for many, when it comes to my claims. Yet I do this in all humility with nothing to gain and nothing to lose. Whether I am ever able to be used as a vessel to get somebody "there" is an entire different subject, and I am indifferent to it.

The way you think also has a flip side to it. Consider it !!!!!

Originally posted by dominicus

Ersatz,

I'm simply giving you an alternative view into enlightenment, an alternative way of thinking/being. A reality check of sorts. It's an eye opener for many, when it comes to my claims. Yet I do this in all humility with nothing to gain and nothing to lose. Whether I am ever able to be used as a vessel to get somebody "there" is an entire different subject, and I am indifferent to it.

The way you think also has a flip side to it. Consider it !!!!!

What if I were to tell you that my enlightenement is by far superior to yours and that I know telepathically that you are not being very kind to youself.

So of course we have the existence of Athiests and Agnostics. How can one believe in God if one is skeptic of something that one hasn't experienced? Until you give something your all, everything you got, all your time, attention, strength, etc, you can never claim to have trully done that thing. If you study hard for a test, you pass with a straight "A." But, if you have never ever studied, let alone believed that the test even exists, how can you claim to know for a fact that it doesn't exist.

Agnostics claim no such thing....only Atheists do.

For me, the non-belief in "God" at least as depicted in the Bible, is not a question of "proof". As you said, proof is rather subjective. Can you "prove" the world is round? No, not really, in a sense...at least not until I see it with my own two eyes from space, but there is enough "evidence" to make it a valid argument, such as pics from satellites, the way the horizon curves, flight, etc.

No, for me the issue of "God" is more of an "is he worthy of worship" one. According to the religion's own text, He made us, originally immortal, and free of corruption. Then, because ONE couple went against his wishes (and God forbid...pardon the pun....thirsted for knowledge (i.e. tree of knowledge)...) and ate some fruit, we all die now and are tainted with original sin. Sorry, but that kind of tantrum isn't worthy of my worship. That's just one example of course. There's the whole pillar of salt issue, ten plagues of Egypt killing innocent children, you know, that kind of thing. This "God" is not such a nice fellow....

Myself, I would agree that you had some sort of spiritual experience, but that you choose to fit it into a "God" framework. Likewise, those of other religions have similar experiences, but fit them into their own religious framework. We seem to get so trapped up into the idea of rituals and doghmas that we lose sight of the basic IDEA of various religious teachings. We see those who believe differently as enemies at worst, possible converts at best.

No thanks.

Please, keep your religion and I truly do hope that whatever one's faith, they live a long happy life. I will meanwhile just try to be a good person, pursue happiness, and if there is a God, and that isn't good enough for Him...then by all means, I'll happily take a swan dive into the Lake of Fire before spending an eternity with such a deity....

Stop trying to force people to beleive in god, this does nothing but create wars, and a so called 'enlightened person' should know that .

I always click on these posts for a good laugh.
Religion, in my opinion, is an obsolete form of mass mind control.
We live in the information age and have the proper knowledge
to be free of the guilt and oppression that religion puts on us.
LOOK INTO THE PAST. NOT 2006 YEARS AGO BUT MUCH FURTHER.
I respect religions nontheless, as they also allow many
people to live peaceful lives who would otherwise be psycho.

WOW that came out wrong... I meant as an individual... the whole peace thing.... just forget the whole peace thing

Originally posted by dominicus
There are more agruments that are in favor of the existence of God then there are for the non-existance side. But, what it boils down to is proof, most of which these days is subjective, and hence my following argument/statement;

For every sound argument for the existence of god(s), there is a counter argument or a counter example, and the same is true for every sound argument against the existence of god(s). If there was not a counter argument or example, then there would be proof for or against the existence of god(s). Proof is not subjective; it is the result of sound argument wherein all premises are accepted. We more than likely get a bad conception of proof because of science related activities; not many people know that science does not prove, but rather finds correlations. Mathematics, on the other hand, seeks to prove, and tries to move away from correlations.

I claim to be enlightened and to have subjective first-hand proof that God exists! How do I know this? Well, I followed some Biblical precepts that got me to enlightenment and knowing God first hand and directly. Of course you can jump all over my label as "Christian Mystic" all that you want, but that's not the point here.

Subjective proof does not make any sense; it is an oxymoron. More than likely you had an experience of what you perceive to be the existence of God. A single experience would not hold up well to scientific or mathematical inquiry. That's okay, I would not want to suggest that we hold up experiences of said God to such rigorous standards, due to the supposed out-of-bounds definitions of God that we have today. Moreover, I personally do not believe science is the best method to understand all parts of our human experience of the world (different topic). Many children have claimed to have interacted with Santa Claus directly, yet the parents will see a different aspect of that experience while in their local mall.

In other words, just because you believe you experienced God, does not mean you did, and even if you did actually experience God, it does not mean anyone else has a reasonable way of starting to believe you. And you know what? In either case, real or not, that experience is uniquely yours, and it would be really hard to sway you either way.

Enlightenment means that I now have additional mental faculties and additional senses that I did not have prior to enlightenment. Christianity, especially Catholicism, has been given a polluted view and tainted by bad seeds, media, and people who have given it a try and gotten nothing out of it. Of course no one is perfect and since men run the churches, there is always a chance of corruption, etc.

At least you believe you have additional mental faculties, and if you actually do, that's great. Again, I have nothing more on that than your word. The irony of man run churches is that is has the same weakness of any single man claiming to have achieved enlightenment: the imperfections and limitations of man. Inherently, even with a possible direct communication with God, the receiver is always flawed. In terms of phone usage, even if the caller is speaking perfectly, it is always up to the receiver to interpret those words, with or without the initial meaning of the caller.

My main argument is on how to know/have proof of God first hand and have a holy mystical experieince that will knock your socks off. You will never be the same, and no longer operate on faith, because faith is to believe in the things that are unseen. I'm talking about seeing things first hand and it all boils down to Loving God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul. When you do this to the maximum extremes that one can do this, you activate enlightenment and all types of extra gifts that you can now use.

Please tell me if I am getting this wrong, but it seems that you are arguing that:

If you experience what you believe to be God, then that God must exist.

Let's assume that is true. It is a fact some christians have claimed to experience their God, and some Muslims have claimed to have experienced their own God. The Christian's God is defined contradictory to the Muslim's God, so having them both exist as equally true causes a contradiction. Therefore, either our premise is false (your argument), or one of those God believers did not really experience God like they claimed. Now if your argument is false, then fine. If not, then why are we to believe your experience, or even our own?

(con't)

So of course we have the existence of Athiests and Agnostics. How can one believe in God if one is skeptic of something that one hasn't experienced? Until you give something your all, everything you got, all your time, attention, strength, etc, you can never claim to have trully done that thing. If you study hard for a test, you pass with a straight "A." But, if you have never ever studied, let alone believed that the test even exists, how can you claim to know for a fact that it doesn't exist.

This depends on your method of knowledge. Science, for example, will try to disprove new a hypothesis (i.e. coming from a skeptical point of view), yet science does come up with some new ideas. In your example, you could pose the hypothesis, "My test exists" and using the scientific method we will experiment on said test until the hypothesis fails.

The agnostic method for knowledge is more of a thoughful position. Upon the idea "the test exists," one would retort, I don't know, does it? And they would seek out points that would either confirm or deny the test.

I personally take the agnostic method of knowledge (re: Huxley). For those that don't know Huxley, the founder of agnosticism, really meant for agnosticism to be a method to knowledge, not a stance or position (or lack thereof) for or against the existence of God. As such, I consider myself an agnostic atheist.

So how can we love God with all our heart, mind, strength, and soul? Well it's not easy, and personally took me 14 months to reach, but it is very doable and is part of reprogamming process. Meaning, on this path you slowly reprogram all negative thoughts, habits, and vices to be replaced by loving God and this sense of getting closer to him. Hence, where the good book comes in. There are secret messages in the Bible that help to unlock this deep Love and once you do your in for the ride of your life. Let's just say you come face to face with God.

Reprogramming progresses? Secret codes? Forgive me sir or madam for the comparison, but that does sound something straight out of a cult. Moreover, why are your secret codes any better than the "bible codes," or why is your dedication any greater than those at Waco? Or those who believed they are going to Heaven's Gate on a UFO? In jest, I warn you to stay away from the kool-aid.

The greatest thing is that along the path, these windows of another reality open up for you, sometimes for several minutes, and they are just little signs from the Maker that you are are almost there, to enlightenment, which the best way to describe it is like being in deja vu 24/7 for the rest of your life. Everything breaths and is surreal !!!!!

In that case, I suspect you knew my reply was coming and will have a complete reply coming shortly. I await your thoughtful response.

A personal question: Does it ever strike you as offensive when you imply that your enlightenment is greater than someone else's?

Originally posted by radardog
A personal question: Does it ever strike you as offensive when you imply that your enlightenment is greater than someone else's?

Don't be absurd. Why should someone who is better than us be offended by the same things as us normal, unenlightened folks.

As for the topic.....


"Religion is the opiate of the people." - Marx

They say you cant fight faith with logic but I wont ever give this one up.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Heres dominicus attempting to put down agnosticism for some reason or another. I dont understand what posesses people to come here and promote religious beliefs to a site that prides itself on the rejection of ignorance. Arent these people aware that intelligent human beings use proof to back up claims?

Oh thats right, Dominicus uses 'Subjective Proof'

[edit on 15-9-2006 by nephyx]

[edit on 15-9-2006 by nephyx]

This thread isnt even conspiracy related... What is it doing on ATS?

Mods when you get a chance can you please move this thread to Below Top secret, there are those of us here that would prefer to not have to sift through this garbage to read Conspiracy related threads

im an atheist and have been for many years. you say about enlightenment through god but as im sure you know budhists have been meditating for hundreds of years in search of enlightenment. enlightenment is something that you get when you yourself are in the right frame of mind. there is no need for people to say the only way i can reach enlightenment is through god because it simply isnt true. aslong as you live right and treat others with respect and do not hurt others id consider them enlightened.
i just dont see why people need to devote their lives to a religion to be good people

Although I do agree that the OP seems to have alterior motives (a cult maybe?, to sell books?), he does make points that I feel are valid...

To me, spiritualism is about your inner self finding it's purpose in this plane of existence....It is humbling to believe in something greater than ones self, but more importantly, to do good to others....

I feel like I, myself, might be more "enlightened" every time I read text from any of the worlds religions...Also, "enlightenment" can be achieved through Scientific study....true "enlightenment" is about gaining all kowledge that is possible.....By regarding any one religion as fact ends up as a roadblock.....Why not compare the similarities in all the major religions rather than bicker over which one is the truth?...to me, it seems that if more than one group tells the SAME story, then that makes it more valid than one group that tells a different one...

As far as the comment about having God come down and show himself...What makes you think we are ready or even capable of seeing that? That argument is childish and tends to shed light on the person making it....It is like if I were to challenge a Scientist to create life in a labratory, with any substance other than an already living cell....It is something that cannot be done, but I don't use it as an argument because people tend to then assume that I am against Science....

Science is a good thing....Religion CAN be a good thing.....it is man as a race that has corrupted religion, not the spiritual realm....the bottom line that nobody seems to get, is that LIFE is the best thing....We are supposed to live each day as if it were our last, because you truly never know when you are going to die....that is, of course, if you do not take your own life...

We have to learn to live together, and love one another...no matter race, gender, religion, or sexual preference.....

I have argued against Christianity, I have argued against the nonbelieving, but I always try to do it in a knowledgeable way...I seek to make no enemies....we have to learn from each other...

The only thing that I do know is that there are plenty of things we cannot explain that happen every day...people are cured from fatal diseases, much to the astonishment of the worlds finest physicians...people survive horrific accidents, and then claim some sort of supernatural interference took place.....Are you going to tell those people that there was nothing special about them? What makes me or you the authority over what happens in such cases?

All I know that so many people are still so against one side or the other, that they are doing harm not only to themselves, but the entire human race...

Originally posted by nephyx
I consider myself spiritual and appreciative of what I have given, but I dont pretend to know why and who gave it to me.. What I will never do is bend to the will of a church or religious rite in order to assure other people that what they worship is 'True' or 'The only way'

I agree with you nephyx,



What I will never do is bend to the will of a church

I will walk my own path to spirituality and find God myself, as i have done.

Go in Peace and stay in a positive mind. Love, beloved, and all else will follow.