For all the Athiests.........

Ezekiel,
Again, what would the point be to give a bunch of pages to the achknowledgment of Dinosaurs, is that not enough for you? How do dinosaurs in anyway have anything to do with Enlightenment and knowing God? Are not dinosaurs irrelavant?

Well the reason the majority of the World believes that Christ rose from the dead was because there were close to 500 witness that saw this, many of which were killed/crucified for claiming to have spoken with him/seen him after he was crucifed. Now if you will allow yourself to be tortured and killed for claiming such a statement, then you are either a madman/insane, or you really did see it. There wasn't a single person documented to have denied what they saw in order to be free of crucifixion. Also the sheer numbers of people claiming Christ ressurected and willing to bear death for what they saw/experieinced.

After the ressurection, a large number of Roman soldiors fled their posts. Being a Roman soldior was a prestigious position and if you fled your post, you would be executed for it. There was no excuses for such action and was mostly unheard of til then.

The large stone that was placed over Christ's grave was not only moved out of the way, revealing an empty tomb, but was placed uphill far away from it's previous location. If anyone wanted to take/steal/see his body, it would have logically/reasonably been moved within a few feet in order to make room to enter and exit.

God thing to do would be to read up on/look up Professor Thomas Arnold, who as an overwhelming amount of scholarly evidence for the exitstence, crucifixion, and ressurection of Christ.

how about some real proof????????



you said it in your opening statement, you have had your own personal experiance. well so have a large growing number of us, and don't include and christian nonsense....

Cyraxx,
you said,
"How about some real Proof ????? you said it in your opening statement, you have had your own personal experiance. well so have a large growing number of us, and don't include and christian nonsense"

Have you not read any of my posts? If you were to read them from the very first to the very last, you would have seen that the proof is subjective, meaning the only way I can prove it is to help get you to the enlightenment that I am currently in. Rather than that it would all be based on any literature I can publish be it quantumm theories, philosophy, or theology that would, at best, give glimpses that I'm operationg on perhaps an enlightened level, which is specualtion for most.

Honestly, there is no logical way you can be an Atheist becasue of Plato's Allegory of The Cave. Goggle it if you want. Agnostic is a much better stance for all you skeptics, though even then Platos' Cave Allegory leaves many to remain in silence. Who's to say that God is not all aorund you right now, but you just can't see from your persepctive? Usually if you want to go see/or experience something, it requries actions and reactions such as thinking about, planning it, preparing to go to it, then seeing it/experiencing it. If your just siiting there thinking about it your whole life and not doing anything about, then you can't say it's not there since you haven't done everything that there is possbile to do to see/experience it.

Look I know there are a large number of you who have experienced some-things, maybe chi, maybe seen a ghost, whetever is your cup of tea. Hey more power to you. The Spiritual/God realms exist whether you are a Christian or not. Again, I am a Christian mystic and have noticed that other monks/mystics from a select few other religions have also experienced a simalar earth shattering personal enlghtenment that has key characterstics. So where is the Christian nonsense in your argument since it seems you can't see through the fine-print of the Bible. All the Flanders' type Chrsitians that demean others of other religions, creeds, etc is not the ideal. If you had a bad experience in the Boys Shower room, that doesn't make the shower room bad. I don't get what's so hard to understand about something itself being inherently indifferent?????

So whose to say that what you base your beliefs and views on isn't nonsense. WHat are your belieifs and views so everyone here can know and begin to unravel to see how strong of a foundation you have for-yourself.

Listen, I think the ultimate punk out comes from a U.S. pastor (Indian guy) named Ravi Zacharias who has held deabtes at Harvard and Princeton with the worlds leading Atheists/Agnostics, faculty, and those schools respective students and hod reasonable, logically, using dedactics and socratic method, put them their arguments to shame in favor of a God and in favor of Christianity. The questions your throwing at me were appetizers compared to what he allowed himself to go up against and succeed over.

Originally posted by dominicus

Well the reason the majority of the World believes that Christ rose from the dead was because there were close to 500 witness that saw this, many of which were killed/crucified for claiming to have spoken with him/seen him after he was crucifed. Now if you will allow yourself to be tortured and killed for claiming such a statement, then you are either a madman/insane, or you really did see it. There wasn't a single person documented to have denied what they saw in order to be free of crucifixion. Also the sheer numbers of people claiming Christ ressurected and willing to bear death for what they saw/experieinced.

The large stone that was placed over Christ's grave was not only moved out of the way, revealing an empty tomb, but was placed uphill far away from it's previous location. If anyone wanted to take/steal/see his body, it would have logically/reasonably been moved within a few feet in order to make room to enter and exit.

Yes, how about a little tiny proof, like at least one of the 500 witnesses, who saw the Crucifiction and the Resurrection? What eye witness accounts do you mean?

Why would God need to move a stone uphill, can Gods not walk through walls anymore?
Why would Jesus say " Father has thou forsaken me"? Had he forgotten he was dying to redeem the world?

"Forsaken" Using etymology (study of words) refers to deny, refuse.

The biggest interpretation of this is Christ expressing his feeling sof abandonment at that time as God placed all sins of the world on him. In that instant God had to turn away and it was the only moment in eternity that God was seperated from Christ. The rest references can made to 2 Corinth 5:21 describing who Christ was and his purpose. That moment equaled seperation, hence he said what he said and in hindsight shows us that in the big picture, if we roll with the man upstairs, even at times that we feel like we are forsaken, at the end of it all there's a happy ending.

As for your 500 witnesses question, I did not understand it. The eye-witness accounts were of Jesus walking around after he was crucified, placed in the grave. It was after seeing him that the world reffered to him as ressurected. He showed people the holes in his hands from the crucifiction, which one guy did not believe so he allowed this guy named Thomas to put his finger through the hole as proof. Many of these people that saw him were unbelievers and his enemies, who changed their hearts after seeing him alive again.

Christ did walk through walls after being ressurected. Their is a mystical connotation here to, that in order to reach some of those spiritual power levels we too have to go through something similar, yet symbolic of that, but that's besides the point in this post. He could have walked through the boulder, but why not pick it up and leave it some-where uphill where it can be used as an argument for later times as to the dvinity of Christ.

[edit on 17-9-2006 by dominicus]

Originally posted by dominicus
"Forsaken" Using etymology (study of words) refers to deny, refuse.

The biggest interpretation of this is Christ expressing his feeling sof abandonment at that time as God placed all sins of the world on him. In that instant God had to turn away and it was the only moment in eternity that God was seperated from Christ. The rest references can made to 2 Corinth 5:21 describing who Christ was and his purpose. That moment equaled seperation, hence he said what he said and in hindsight shows us that in the big picture, if we roll with the man upstairs, even at times that we feel like we are forsaken, at the end of it all there's a happy ending.

As for your 500 witnesses question, I did not understand it. The eye-witness accounts were of Jesus walking around after he was crucified, placed in the grave. It was after seeing him that the world reffered to him as ressurected. He showed people the holes in his hands from the crucifiction, which one guy did not believe so he allowed this guy named Thomas to put his finger through the hole as proof. Many of these people that saw him were unbelievers and his enemies, who changed their hearts after seeing him alive again.

Christ did walk through walls after being ressurected. Their is a mystical connotation here to, that in order to reach some of those spiritual power levels we too have to go through something similar, yet symbolic of that, but that's besides the point in this post. He could have walked through the boulder, but why not pick it up and leave it some-where uphill where it can be used as an argument for later times as to the dvinity of Christ.

[edit on 17-9-2006 by dominicus]

Forsaken : 2. deserted; abandoned; forlorn (Dictionary.com)

Thomas Didymus (the Twin)
A grand traveller, seen everywhere from Parthia to Kerala in south India. 4th century invention, appropriately enough, gives this 'twin' 2 martyrdoms, one in Persia and one in India. He even gets a burial in Syria to boot! Yet another resting place, Mylapore, was claimed by the Portuguese in 16th century. Most famous for his "doubt", Thomas inspired a whole raft of pious flimflam: the Acts of Thomas (he built a palace for an Indian king, would you believe), the Apocalypse of Thomas, the Gospel of Thomas, and the Infant Gospel of Thomas.

Now, have you still got any doubts ...?

There is NO corroborating evidence for the existence of the 12 Apostles and absolutely NO evidence for the colourful variety of martyrs' deaths they supposedly experienced. The Bible itself actually mentions the death of only two apostles, a James who was put to death by Herod Agrippa and the nasty Judas Iscariot, who gets several deaths because he's the bad guy.

If you really are a God you do not need to leave proof that you are a God.

Originally posted by dominicus
Ezekiel,
Again, what would the point be to give a bunch of pages to the achknowledgment of Dinosaurs, is that not enough for you? How do dinosaurs in anyway have anything to do with Enlightenment and knowing God? Are not dinosaurs irrelavant?

No Dinosaurs arent irrelevant because you claim to have reached enlightenment through studying the bible, yet the bible obviously cannot account for things such as Dinosaurs, which we have tangible physical evidence for.

How do you expect to teach people enlightenment through understanding the bible if you cant even explain something so glaringly obvious as the existence of Dinosaurs - which are significantly ABSENT from the bible???

Well the reason the majority of the World believes that Christ rose from the dead was because there were close to 500 witness that saw this, many of which were killed/crucified for claiming to have spoken with him/seen him after he was crucifed. Now if you will allow yourself to be tortured and killed for claiming such a statement, then you are either a madman/insane, or you really did see it. There wasn't a single person documented to have denied what they saw in order to be free of crucifixion. Also the sheer numbers of people claiming Christ ressurected and willing to bear death for what they saw/experieinced.

You say documented, where else was it documented except the bible? Because the bible cant really be called an unbiased source.

The large stone that was placed over Christ's grave was not only moved out of the way, revealing an empty tomb, but was placed uphill far away from it's previous location. If anyone wanted to take/steal/see his body, it would have logically/reasonably been moved within a few feet in order to make room to enter and exit.

Your arguing logic, in a discussion regarding someone rising from the dead?

God thing to do would be to read up on/look up Professor Thomas Arnold, who as an overwhelming amount of scholarly evidence for the exitstence, crucifixion, and ressurection of Christ.

Evidence?!?!?! The only 'evidence' is from the bible! They have never found the empty tomb, they have never found a Tombstone, they have never even found the ORIGINAL CRUCIFIX!! What possible evidence, except for words WRITTEN BY MEN in a book that has a number of contradictions and omitions?

Originally posted by dominicus
As for your 500 witnesses question, I did not understand it. The eye-witness accounts were of Jesus walking around after he was crucified, placed in the grave. It was after seeing him that the world reffered to him as ressurected. He showed people the holes in his hands from the crucifiction, which one guy did not believe so he allowed this guy named Thomas to put his finger through the hole as proof. Many of these people that saw him were unbelievers and his enemies, who changed their hearts after seeing him alive again.

Ok if there were 500 witnesses then where are the 500 witness accounts? The bible doesnt actually state whether Thomas Didymus got to feel the wounds or not so your statement of putting his finger through the hole as proof is unfounded!

Christ did walk through walls after being ressurected. Their is a mystical connotation here to, that in order to reach some of those spiritual power levels we too have to go through something similar, yet symbolic of that, but that's besides the point in this post. He could have walked through the boulder, but why not pick it up and leave it some-where uphill where it can be used as an argument for later times as to the dvinity of Christ.

Why not turn the boulder into the Millenium Falcon and fly away to Tatooine? There is no evidence for the ressurection as there isnt for many aspects of christianity.


G

dominicus, the reason i believe you are not truly enlightened is the fact that you come to ATS telling everyone about how enlightened you are. If I was truly enlightened, i wouldn't be in here telling everyone about it, I would be outside, with the people of earth, showing them what love feels like. I would help the ones in need, and i would travel the globe ( or at least the US as a start) giving people examples of my vast knowledge for them to learn from. I would be getting together with any other truly enlightened people to stop the corrupt governments of the world. I would be feeding the hungry children across the globe, housing and feeding all that ask for help.

I would personally show people everywhere how to achieve this enlightenment so we can all see how life is now and how great it can be for all. I would do all that I could to get people to realize what's going on and how we can stop it.

I will do this one day, currently i have no money to help people, but i still will do something for them if they ask me and if I can. I've known my whole life that I was put here to do great things, and i will. ( No i'm not claiming to be Jesus or the next Messiah or anything like that)

This is why I fail to see how you can claim to be truly enlightened. I know that sometime within the next ten years, even if I have to give up every material possesion i have including my job, i'm going to do everything in my power (alongside of anyone who wants to help me then) to open the eyes of this world to a greater truth, that of love and light, and bring as much harmony to this world as i can.

And no, i'm not trying to start a cult or religion either. I just want people to stop being so egotistical and realize that we are all people. No matter what faith, color, or culture, we are all human beings. We all have DNA and blood, we all have spirit, and we all have the ability to become truly divine.

I wish you all the best with love and light,

Pancho

7PanCho,
The reason I claim enlightenment and tell everybody is because I do so in humbleness & humility and I boast about it because it Glorifies the fact that this is something I reached by submitting myself to God and following Christs ways. You doubting my state doesn't change the fact that I am "there." I happen to respect the BTS/ATS site and the boards have some prominant individuals that visit here, which I think many of you would be surprise to find out about. Me stating on these boards that I am "there" doesn't discredit me in any way.

How can I even begin to tell people about this enlightenment when over the years I've learned that I get 1 of several universal reactions; skepticism, unbelief, anger, and a bunch of other more ignorant reactions that I will not even attempt to post here. How do you help others reach Enlightenment when it takes hard spiritual work but people don't want to do it, let alone believe you, let alone give it all a chance? Imagine the difficulties because of free-will and the blindfolds that are being worn by most.

Everything that you said you would be doing if you were enlightened, I have plans on doing, but at this time, I happen to be financially responsible for a younger sister(in college) and divorced mother, along with shortly paying off my college tuitions after all these years. Until I am free of those responsibilities, I have only been able to spread goodness in the Chicagoland area or when I'm in NY or LA for any business trips.

Believe me, if you did everything you could to convince or try to get people to enlightenment, many of them eventually start seeing as "the crazy megaphone" type. Not that I care what anyone thinks about me since the complete annihilation of my ego, but I do care about others and knowing that there are people that feel this way and Atheists living without the Love of God, saddens me deeply.

On a small scale, speaking to a few Bible (with the goal of reaching Enlightenment) students a week I am able to make a difference. It may not be big right now, but it helps to learn the universal issues and reactions of people when speaking to them, as well as having every grounds covered with appropriate rebuttles as to prepare me for working on a grander scale. Also getting books published in different fields also has a bigger number of people to be reached, and books are very popular.

I have never ever claimed to be messiah or anything close to that, but Enlightenment is a very bold statement and you think I have some big balls to come on here and say. Oh well it is the way it is and I do claim that I am where I am. However I do it with no Ego, no propoganda, no alterior motivations besides dropping jewels, and I have since given up all possesions besides basic food, clothes, shelter, and a vehicle for work. I have no desire for any material goods or anything else of anykind. I am single and practicing celibacy as I continue to conquer the last of my vices(nobody said enlightenment would be easy) I am completely content and do not care for any kind of gain besides awakening sleepers and ressurecting the mentally dead.

Everything that you claimed you would like to do, which are similar things to what I wish to help do, will never change the entire world for the better unless righteousness practicing philosophers are in power of governmental positions or until ultimate divine intervention on a grand scale occurs. With Philosophers being in power, it still wouldn't rid the world of wickedness, disease, natural disasters and so forth, but it would all be taken care of in a quick and uncorrupted, dignified manner.

Only grand divine intervention will chnge the world into a utopian society. A single person can only do so much, even if they are enlightened and yet making changes on smaller scales also puts into motion a set of reactions that changes the world one way or another. You interacting with me on these boards about these topics helps to change the world

Shihulud,

Thomas putting his finger through Jesus hand is in John 20:24-29.

You also said: "Why not turn the boulder into the Millenium Falcon and fly away to Tatooine? There is no evidence for the ressurection as there isnt for many aspects of christianity."

What's the purpose of turning the rock into a falcon? Wasn't moving it all the way uphill enough? But I guess if your going to do something like that, you should go all out correct? I think going all out is conquering death. There are many documented clinical cases of people comming back to life after several hours even sometimes several days. This can be googled, but you have to make sure the sources are credible.

The 500+ witnesses of the resurrection has been documented by numerous sources during those times. Those out of the 500+ that were crucified for their statements, were recorded by the Roman Governemnt as claiming so. The Roman Government also recorded that a large number of people were claiming this and recorded the departure of quite a large number of Roman Soldiors from their posts, which was unheard of before and was always enforced by death if you did so. The Pharisees, (Jewish Priests at the time) recorded these witnesses proclaiming this and being witnesses to the disciples performing large numbers of miracles all of which were documented by biased and unbiased sources. Do some research and you'll start breaking things down to the nitty gritty. Belieive it or not, there is tons of rational argumentive proof as to the Ressurection of Christ.

When they found the dead sea scrolls in Qumran, inside they found a copy of the Old Testament, 1,000 years before the existence of Christ and upon further study found that not a single word had been changed in the current version.

The old Testament makes 2,500 predictions about the comming savior of the World being the Son of God, dying for everyone's sins, performing miracles, and ressurecting. So far, 2,000 of them have been fulfilled by Christ. In statistical science, or statistics, if you even use 13 of the main predicitions being fulfilled, the odds of these 13 happening are 10 to 138th power. So now we're talking about trillions upon zillions of odds in favor of Christ being what he claimed to be.

Do you not understand how big of a number that is???? There is a better chance for you to get hit by lightning everyday for the rest of your life and win the lotto a million times than there is for anybody to have been able to fulfill 13 out of 2,000 of those 2,500 predictions.

There is way too many rational/logical/reasonable/statistical/geographical/archaeaological proof to support the divinty of Christ and the Bible.
-----------
Ezekiel,
Dinosaurs are in the Bible; Job 40:15-24, Job 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. You have to use deeper etymology, not just your standard dictionary. Dinosaurs in the Bible are reffered to as Behemoths and Leviathins. It's in there in some other passges but I don't remember the other ones off hand.

They are so obviously in there especially with the reference ot their size and scales and other clues, but it's plainly obvious. My question is, would it really bother you that a book about God and Enlightenment only describes dinosaurs a handful of times? Dinosaurs were animals and again doesn't have much to do with us becomming one with God. They are in there and it's something that the theology community has been aware of for hundreds of years. It's an old and proven issue that they are in there. Would you let a misquito bite keep you away from experiencing the Niagara falls especially with your own eyes and after a friend gives you bug spray?

Refer to my 500 above. Research it. There are tons of materials documenting statements and crucifixions as to these witnesses. It's an overwhelming amount and I'm sure you local Library has tons.

I was arguing logic over the stone being moved up hill. Ressurection arguments use dedactic rationality or transcendence.
cont...

Ezekiel,
Continued from last post.

The empty tomb has supposedly been located, but there is a Church built up around that location and they deny entrance to examine it, go figure. It's the Holy Sepulchre in the Old City section of modern day of Jerusalem. However with the corruption of the Church or whatever politics you want to fill in the blank on this issue, access denied. Regardless, archaeologists have stated that similar graves that were found in the area match to exact descriptions of graves and how they were sealed with large circular stones with Roman seals. Every detail matches up to a T. Not only that, as Christ was still in the tomb and comming out of the tomb, moving the stone out of the way, there were Roman soldiors protecting this site and they all freaked when witnessed this along with an angel apperaing before them. They all ran from that site and reported this to higher up authorities, all of which was written down/recorded in Roman Government records keeping and is still available to be viewed today.

Tombstones were not common. They were enclosed and not always engraved, which this is Christ were speaking of in which case it had to have been engraved so where is it? Where is the original Crucifix? That sets up my next point. Can you imagine the value or the potential political/spiritual power that can be gained by owning any of these? That type of stuff has been ransacked, bought, sold, and hidden long time ago. Look at most of the Egyption tombs and we have the same deal. There are countless missing and hidden from public artifacts, but that does not disprove that those artifacts exist especially since Egyption tombs also had records of the items kept inside.

You said "BOOK WRITTEN BY MEN," which is aways a classic argument against the Bible but has more rebuttles then you can shake a stick at. The most important one being that these Men were enlightened and inspired directly by God to write. If I was in the direct presence of God where he was telling me to write down a certain philosophy, it would also be considered Holy Scripture. There are other books written by Christian Mystics/Monks such as St. John of the Cross, Origen, Augestine and so on. Many Christians and Catholics, but not all, see these books also as scripture. When your operating at levels of God communication, I don't see how there could be any mistakes since it is being orchestrated by a perfect creator. Is it not possible for there to be a book that is directly inspired by God and perfect? Anything is possible. Now as far as interpretations go that's a whole other story. Since mere men, many of which are not enlightened, also try to interpret the Bible in their own unenlightened ways, we have as a result thousands upon thousands of denominations, many of which are hillarious when you hear what they have to say about certain things. But at the core are key teachings and majority interpretations based on spiritual rationalism. The possibility of God inspired teologistic literature exists.

The average bumble bee boggles the minds of physicists and scientists alike for it's ability to fly. The bumble bee isn't supposed to be able to fly because of it's heavy weight and small wings, and yet it does and in doing so defies many laws of physics and gravity. Rules are bendable and reality is not what it seems.

-----
Ersatz,
All the Thomas references you state are supported by Gnostic teachings. Some things are facts like him being in India, but after the whole doubting of Christ and finger in hand, he was doubted by the other apostles, but then proved otherwise when stating he saw Mary ascend. I can't take anything Gnostic too serious at this point.

Each of the twelve apostles did exist and there are tax records from their respective towns and other historical references outside fo the Bible. Will get you a link on next post. They each existed, but whether they were referenced as a select twelve during that time is questionable.

Ersatz,
You have point when you said "If you really are a God you do not need to leave proof that you are a God."

Although I would have said it like this; God does not need to leave anymore proof than there already is since he is.

Originally posted by dominicus
Ersatz,
You have point when you said "If you really are a God you do not need to leave proof that you are a God."

Although I would have said it like this; God does not need to leave anymore proof than there already is since he is.

Jesus, in order to fulfill the metaphor he represents, had to die; He is often depicted with a bright circle behind his head because he was a sun god. Like the sun he dies and resurrects, he takes three days because he is also callled Logos (Mercury).
The planet Mercury is hidden by the sun three days before reappearing in the sky.

Ersatz,
You are treading on fine ground here after the last post. Astrology is actually in the Bible, and is best referenced when the 3 wise men, who were part of Zoatrianism, followed the North star to the place where Christ was born. Their scripture had this predicted hudreds if not thousands of years before this happened all based on astrology. Main-stream Christianity dismisses is as magic/witchcraft, watever, but then again most mianstream Christians fail to see some things inbetween the lines, let alone get "there"

Originally posted by dominicus
Ersatz,
You are treading on fine ground here after the last post. Astrology is actually in the Bible, and is best referenced when the 3 wise men, who were part of Zoatrianism, followed the North star to the place where Christ was born. Their scripture had this predicted hudreds if not thousands of years before this happened all based on astrology. Main-stream Christianity dismisses is as magic/witchcraft, watever, but then again most mianstream Christians fail to see some things inbetween the lines, let alone get "there"

If you follow the North star you get to the North Pole, following a star could not have shown exactly where in Bethlehem Jesus was to be found, as Matthew says this star did.
Come out of your stubborness, the hole you are digging for yourself will get smaller and smaller. You soon will not fit into yourself anymore.
Knowledge of God is an intimate affair, the less you advertise it the more your wisdom will grow.

Note taken,
It just saddens me that I can't share enlightenment with everybody. I wish I had an enlightenment gun!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by dominicus
Shihulud,

Thomas putting his finger through Jesus hand is in John 20:24-29.

It doesn't actually state that Thomas actually did these things but only that he was asked to.

You also said: "Why not turn the boulder into the Millenium Falcon and fly away to Tatooine? There is no evidence for the ressurection as there isnt for many aspects of christianity."

What's the purpose of turning the rock into a falcon? Wasn't moving it all the way uphill enough? But I guess if your going to do something like that, you should go all out correct? I think going all out is conquering death. There are many documented clinical cases of people comming back to life after several hours even sometimes several days. This can be googled, but you have to make sure the sources are credible.

Moving the boulder uphill could have been done by numerous people, but not everyone could have turned the boulder into the millenium falcon or anything else. I have also heard of these cases of resurrection and if they are credible then that in itself is evidence that 'resurrection' is possible and therefore jesus's divinty can be questioned.

The 500+ witnesses of the resurrection has been documented by numerous sources during those times... ... Do some research and you'll start breaking things down to the nitty gritty. Belieive it or not, there is tons of rational argumentive proof as to the Ressurection of Christ.

Where is this evidence? A few links would be in order for as far as I'm aware there is little or no evidence for this, and I have done quite a bit of research into these things.

When they found the dead sea scrolls in Qumran, inside they found a copy of the Old Testament, 1,000 years before the existence of Christ and upon further study found that not a single word had been changed in the current version.

I'm sorry to tell you that the dead sea scrolls were from 200 BCE at the earliest and it wasn't a full copy of the OT but fragments (although it might all be there as they'er not finished translating etc). These scrolls also date from the time of 'jesus' but there has not been ONE scroll with jesus name or things attributed to jesus or his followers. This is mirrored by other contempory writers of the time be they Roman, Jewish or otherwise.

The old Testament makes 2,500 predictions about the comming savior of the World being the Son of God, dying for everyone's sins, performing miracles, and ressurecting. So far, 2,000 of them have been fulfilled by Christ. In statistical science, or statistics, if you even use 13 of the main predicitions being fulfilled, the odds of these 13 happening are 10 to 138th power. So now we're talking about trillions upon zillions of odds in favor of Christ being what he claimed to be.

Do you not understand how big of a number that is???? There is a better chance for you to get hit by lightning everyday for the rest of your life and win the lotto a million times than there is for anybody to have been able to fulfill 13 out of 2,000 of those 2,500 predictions.

There is way too many rational/logical/reasonable/statistical/geographical/archaeaological proof to support the divinty of Christ and the Bible.

The 'fact' that christ supposedly fulfilled 2000 of these prophecies suggests interference by christ to make these prophecies come true. As for the others I can only hazard a guess that mitigating circumstance or coincidence have a helping hand.

Sorry but there is NO PROOF whatsoever on the divinty of christ (there isn't even any for his existence) and the bible has been proven wrong on many occasions. Flat earth, earth the centre of the universe etc.



G

Originally posted by dominicus
Note taken,
It just saddens me that I can't share enlightenment with everybody. I wish I had an enlightenment gun!!!!!!!!!!

That made me laugh, I am sure you have an enlightnment gun, just don't use all the bullets at once. Finding out who hides behind Domenicus will give you extra ammunition.

...Sorry but there is NO PROOF whatsoever on the divinty of christ (there isn't even any for his existence) and the bible has been proven wrong on many occasions...

We can all be divine...we are all sons and daughters of a God...

As far as any evidence for the existence of Jesus, have you read the Koran?....why would the religion that has been made the direct ENEMY of Christianity contain stories of the same man that is one of the main characters in the Christian Bible, if he did not exist?

deny ignorance....