Mideast Chatter: Nuclear Strike On U.S. Soil

Originally posted by Valhall
And I'd add that IF Detroit was a target, then that would be the first strong evidence for me that our government really was behind an attack

I would say that if a nuclear weapon, an actual nuclear bomb, not just a radiological "dirty bomb" device, were to be detonated Anywhere In the World!, not just within the confines of the US, if should be taken as evidence of At Least US gov't complicity if not outright and direct responsibility.

As I pointed out here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I believe it improbable, to the point of impossibility, that AQ would have been able to fabricate, on it's own, any type of nuclear weapon beyond a so-called "dirty bomb". And a dirty bomb, despite its initial shock value, is unlikely to be seen as a "legitimate" successor to the devestation of 9/11: unless played to the hilt by a sensationalist media (aided and abetted beyond all reason the gov't intent on its fear agenda).

AQ is confederation of terrorist "cells", even more loosely organized now than in the past. I find it hard to believe that such an ill-defined group would have the ability to develop a technology, to the point that it felt confident enough to deploy an Untested device; especially where nation-states such as Iran and North Korea have yet to succede.

I would agree that, IF OBL had a nuke, it would be simple enough to smuggle it into the US; but that is a very big IF to overcome. IMO the only way for AQ to posess a working nuclear weapon would be to have "acquired" one, in toto, from a willing co-conspiritor: a nuclear-capable nation-state.

Likely "suspects" are few and well-known.

And not one of them could likely pull off such a transaction with AQ without the US gov't knowing about it well in advance of an "October Suprise".

I will go on record right now to say that UBL cannot and will not detonate a nuke in this country, especially not in NYC or DC! Too many NEST Teams and detectors in place to allow a "full scale" or even suit case nuke to be placed in those cities. For my money's worth, if something were to happen, more likely will be a small dirty bomb, or chemical attack.

Originally posted by KnowItAll
I will go on record right now to say that UBL cannot and will not detonate a nuke in this country, especially not in NYC or DC! Too many NEST Teams and detectors in place to allow a "full scale" or even suit case nuke to be placed in those cities. For my money's worth, if something were to happen, more likely will be a small dirty bomb, or chemical attack.

I'd tend to agree with your assessment of the situation, EXCEPT for the following scenario:

A large, even crudely shielded, nuclear device (bomb) could possibly be secreted into any port city, NYC included, if it were to be mounted to the Keel of ship!

The hull, bilge and fuel (stored in tanks at the very bottom of the ship for additional ballast) would shield errant radiation from detection by land and air; the very sea itself would absorb and obscur radiation like fuel rod "cooling ponds" used at many nuclear reactors world-wide.

N.E.S.T. units would have no warning, and therefore, no chance to locate the weapon before it was detonated.

NEST teams are here,but they are specialized and they are generally sent into a hot area, not used for constant surviellence.

Remember, You can still smuggle anything you want into this country. Arms, drugs, humans, anything. I strongly beleive that they were bought here before 9/11, and that it is the next step in AQ's plan to topple the West. They waited 8 years to hit the WTC again, and they suceeded. They have nothing but time because when it happens, it will be war.

Look at the escalation in Afghanistan. The last time that happened was the weeks leading up to 9/11 with increased chatter, movement and operations. The stock market is high, gas is no dropping, Christmas is coming and the US is complacent. Economy on the rebound, jobless rate and consumer spending is up. It is the perfect time for a strike.

Let's hope our white Christmas comes from the snow...

This is interesting, I was watching a program on "end timers", its about crackpot religious zealots who believe there will be Armageddon and then the 2nd coming of Jesus.

They are hoping for war in the middle east so their dream can come true. Bushs advisors actually phone these people for advice on certain matters.

www.channel4.com...

This could explain why Bush would attack his own country in order to to being about what he believes is the 2nd coming of Jesus.

That is scarier than any nuclear attack itself.

Originally posted by DickBinBush
Quick question. Do you think it's possible for the American people to actually TOPPLE our own government? I'm not asking if we would want to..I'm asking if it's possible to even do that.

Interesting subject, that can use a topic of its own...

Originally posted by Mammoth

Originally posted by DickBinBush
Quick question. Do you think it's possible for the American people to actually TOPPLE our own government? I'm not asking if we would want to..I'm asking if it's possible to even do that.

Interesting subject, that can use a topic of its own...

I think that the vast bulk of the american people are too ignorant and lazy to topple thier own government. These people have for the most part been assimilated into the government as far as I can see.

They will, more than likely, choose to outsouce (like everything else) the toppling of the government to a 3rd party entity such as the muslims. The muslims are taking the jobs that americans don't want to do.



[edit on 18-9-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Man, you people that can't look beyond the "conspiracy theories" in your mind just kill me, and will ultimately kill our country. Why is it so hard to grasp the concept that there is a major battle going on between religeous beliefs? The radical/fundamentalist Islamic believers have CLEARY stated their intention: Convert or die. What don't you people understand about that? Do you really think having a "dialogue" with them is going to a) change their mind or b) save you? Additionally, since it's a religeous philosophy why must there be a time constraint? (Remember, it was 8 yrs between WTC attacks as pointed out earlier.) If you're fighting for what you believe to be true, time is irrelevant - it takes as long as it takes. Now if you can speed things along, all the better.

As far as the topic at hand regarding some type of nuclear device being set of in the US, I can fully see the possibility. The US Government is so concerned with "not offending" the Muslim population that they won't do what needs to be done. (Close the borders, increase cargo inspection at the ports, close down the mosques that allow hate speech and deport the Imams that espouse the downfall of the US, racial profiling, etc.) Yes I said those things and I stand behind them. Enough of this politically correct mentality. I realize this is an international board, but I love my country and I want to see it protected. Do I agree with everything my government does internationally? NOT AT ALL...we really should keep our nose out of other countries affairs, but I will say that any person that conspires against the US within it's borders should be punished to the greatest extent possible.

A few last thoughts regarding events if a nuke does go off in the US, IMO, there will be great retaliation from the US military, not sure we'll use the same, but you can bet your last dollar alot of places in the middle east will fail to exist. Internment camp will happen and unfortunately, alot of innocent muslims will be either killed or otherwise physically assaulted by the backlash. Maybe it's time for the Muslim community to step up and denounce all this talk of "punishing the west" and "convert or die" chest thumping that seems to have become all to common.

Originally posted by Flyer
This is interesting, I was watching a program on "end timers", its about crackpot religious zealots who believe there will be Armageddon and then the 2nd coming of Jesus.

They are hoping for war in the middle east so their dream can come true. Bushs advisors actually phone these people for advice on certain matters.

www.channel4.com...

This could explain why Bush would attack his own country in order to to being about what he believes is the 2nd coming of Jesus.

That is scarier than any nuclear attack itself.

That is scary. I can't imagine anyone wanting Revelations prophecy to come true. If it does, it's not going to be a pleasant time by any means.

Originally posted by surfinguru
Man, you people that can't look beyond the "conspiracy theories" in your mind just kill me, and will ultimately kill our country. Why is it so hard to grasp the concept that there is a major battle going on between religeous beliefs? The radical/fundamentalist Islamic believers have CLEARY stated their intention: Convert or die. What don't you people understand about that?

Hard to fault your comments.


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[edit on 18-9-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Bombing the east or west coast would be a waste, they will most likely not target them in a bigger attack. Good millitary strategy would tell you that the middle of the US is the prime tartget. Think about it, were do we get all of our food and most of our national resourses....the middle of the country. Instead of going for hard targets, they will most likely begin an assualt on our soft tartgets( ie, our food sources). America can not be fought outright, but it can be starved to death.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
I find it ironic how they mention the Mexican border. Could you imagine the backlash that would occur if there was a huge terrorist attack and the equipment was found to be smuggled through the southern border!?

You could bet your bottom dollar there would be calls for trying people and a wall would be built asap.

The wall will not be built to keep people from coming in, it will be built to keep people from going out.

Originally posted by Mdv2
A few months ago there was a topic going on about a writer who claimed that Al Qaeda already has dirty bombs brought into the US. If that's true, it's not the question anymore how and where they will do it, but when.

True enough.

In my mind, the easiest way they'd sneak one in is through shipping; it's like only 5% of shipping containers are actually inspected, right? Leaving almost all of them uninspected and virtually unknown. These people are pretty dedicated, and devious.

All we can really do is hope the Patriot Act gets put to some good and stops anything before it happens. I would rather people call me a paranoid nutcase forever, than be right and witness an NBC in our borders.

To a certain extent a bit like their promise of the American Hiroshima plan. that was back in 1994 and sounds like a gangsters upping it but not action. its a dog barking louder than its bite again.

I think even Terminator 2 got the idea before hand and that TV programme in 1984 THE DAY AFTER movie. So to me its their way of being mentally creative but lack the channeling to know how to express it. Its all theatre which is lacking some creativity in people's minds.

As far as I can figure Detroit would probably one of the last places hit. Dearborn has the largest Arab population in the country. The planning may take place there but probably little else.

mikell

Originally posted by surfinguru
Man, you people that can't look beyond the "conspiracy theories" in your mind just kill me, and will ultimately kill our country. Why is it so hard to grasp the concept that there is a major battle going on between religeous beliefs? The radical/fundamentalist Islamic believers have CLEARY stated their intention: Convert or die. What don't you people understand about that? Do you really think having a "dialogue" with them is going to a) change their mind or b) save you?

What will "kill this country" is its continued reliance on provincial, Us vs. Them, short-sighted, over-eager war-gamers who persist in viewing the world's geo-political crisises (many of which they themselves either created, or at least contributed to!) as "religious battles" and/or "A clash of Cultures"!

Geez! "A Major Religeous Battle"??? You mean like a...CRUSADE?

Convert or Die? Seems the choice the West has been offering lo these past 100 years or so has been one of "Submit, or Suffer (while we squeeze every last drop out of you) and Die (once we've drained and poisoned your land, corrupted your government and left you in abject poverty)."

This crisis has absolutely Nothing to do with trying to avoid "offending the Muslim population"; the policies imposed by the West in the ME, as exemplified by the US, have been nothing BUT an offense against the Muslim population for almost a century!

This crisis is all about trying to continue to contain the anger and rebellion that offense has engendered.

You Say you don't agree with everything your government does internationally. But what do you DO about what it does in your name and mine to those who cannot help themselves? How much have you sent to Darfur? Did you support the Intefada? Do drive an SUV? Alone?

Don't feel too bad, you're probably like the rest of us in the US; blissfully ignorant and completely secure in our own moral superiority. Besides, feeling bad would be "Unpatriotic", it's defeatist, right? You're either "with US or you're with the terrorists!"

Oh, and BTW...How do You define "conspiring against the US within its borders"? Just want to clear that little point up, because as many in the current Administration see it, if you don't agree with their policies toward the so-called "War Against Terror", if you, say, dissent, well then it is You who should be "punished to the greatest extent possible".

And finally, if a nuke were to go off in the US, don't you think it would be most appropriate to consider as the likely source, and therefore likelyest to "fail to exist", the only two nations in the region known to HAVE nuclear weapons???

Yes, that's right, our "friends": Israel and Pakistan!

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[edit on 18-9-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

If this unfolds my question is who do you bomb ? Several posters have stated that the middle east would glow green or be a mile deep crater but getting back to reality what would be the retaliatory strikepoint? Afghanistan was arguably knee jerk in that it was an opportunity with self serving interests. Iraq could be considered the same. For those that would say Afghanistan housed terrorists answer me why then if most of the 9/11 terrorists were of Saudi descent that region hasn't been attacked or vilified?

Israel is posed precariously amongst nations that the US obviously wants to target. It would be rather ironic for the US to blast that region back to the stoneage considering all the money & effort contributed towards israels well being. Also with the large ground deployment of US troops in Iraq a nuclear strike in the middle east wouldn't be rational.

Iran? Yes thats a strong possibility (and again another opportunity to serve self US interests) but does it eliminate Bin Laden? This is my point. The US has an incredibly stupid amount of weapons and warfare technology at their fingertips but I don't think would have a pot to piss in when it hits the fan. You can't carpet bomb radicalism into submission and expect results.

brill

[edit on 18-9-2006 by brill]

Brill is totaly right, who would we hit in retailliation? Nobody, because islamic fundamentalists have no country affilations outright. In reality, they could bomb the crap out of us and we would have to grin and bare it. Chances are that china or russia would supply the weaponry, this is the ultimate way to conduct war with a country that poses a threat( the use of proxie wars...similar to what we did to the russians in the cold war). If anything, this is russia( or china's) way to give us a big middle finger, and we can't do anything about it. This does however support that 9/11 was allowed by the current administration as the only way to retailliate. Basicly, we need to take out the true enemys weapon( in this case a religious fundamentalist group, being given weapons it normally doesn't have a means to get at).....how would we do that if they don't first attack us....leading to the "war on terrorism" as some call it. This all eastern war strategy( i.e. Sun Tzu's art of war, or the 36 strategies), which uses heavy doses of fuzzy logic to increase the difficulty of reacting properly( similar to how formulate strategy in a game of "GO").

I'm remided of these:
Attack The Inside To Defeat The Outside

Means that you first have to explore and understand the internal camp of your enemy and then you can discover weakness. When the time is right, you can strike immediately at the source strength. If you give an critical attack to the inside, you will disorder and confuse the outside. Then your whole army can attack the outside and that leads to victory.

Separate Their Power-Source To Fill Your Advantage-Source

Means that you never must attack an strong enemy directly, but first you have to lure him away from his source of strength and then take advantage of your own source of power and then attack your enemy and that leads to victory.

Use A Forgotten Strategy To Surprise Originally

Means that you have to re-use a forgotten or unused institution, technology, method or strategy to launch an original surprise attack to your enemy and that leads to victory.

Sacrifice The Short-Term To Gain The Long-Term

Means that someone or something have to be sacrificed to advance or to rescue the whole army or leader. Sacrificing less important persons or things can, soon or later, lead to an counterattack that leads to victory.

Weak-Attack Openly, Strong-Attack Secretly

Means that you have to attack on two ways. First is to attack direct, but with less power and second is to attack indirect, but with much power, so that the enemy does not expect that. That will lead him lead into confusion and that leads to your victory.

Defend Direct, Attack Indirect

Means that you have to put much power in defending and also let the enemy knows that. The enemy will think you have all your forces in defending. Then you must also put some power in attacking; but it must be indirect; via somebody else. Then the enemy won't know that that, so that you can attack with a surprise that leads to victory.

Yes. Fear the dead Osama.

When something happens, it wont be from the outside.


Alex Jones has been talking about this for awhile now. :shk:

I wonder what they will be capable of this time around? God only knows.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
If they do make a nuclear attack, it will be in chicago... the close proximity to the largest freshwater lakes in the world...

No they're not. The Great Lakes are large in surface area but very shallow. Lake Baikal in Siberia is the largest, with over 20% of all the world's freshwater in it (more volume than all of the Great Lakes combined).

But I digress phenomenally...