The Liberty Dollar

Hello all,

I was talking to a truck driver at my security job and one thing led to another.

He then started talking about this New "Liberty Dollar".

Being the person I am (reading this web site 2 or more times a day) I figured this would be the best place to discuss this.

First Of let me be very clear, I'm not adverting this or endorsing it. I'm looking for a good discussion on this and what other people views are about this.

Here is the Source Link to the site in question
Liberty Dollar.ORG site.

As for me I find the concept interesting at least and I am looking into it more.

I did a search and didn't find anything matching this.

If this is in the wrong forum please move it.

I've proposed something like this during a speech at my University, but I found that it contained more cons than pros. For one thing, it's very easy for the government to cheat the public by devaluing the coins every few years by adding impure metals without our consent our knowledge. Second, many people will not convert their currency to change. For example, would you rather have a wallet full of $10 bills or a pocket full of change? To many, they would prefer the bills over the change. Third, there will be much of the coins in non-circulation, due to many people who tend to keep newly issued curreny as "collectors items."

With the bills itself, the largest problem that it would pose is how anyone would accept it as real currency. Sure it looks better than the current US cuurency, but if I didn't know about it, and I were given a choice of being paid $20 US or $20 in that currency, I would choose the US.

well i think its a scam in a weird way heres why

This guy wants me to send him my Regular American Dollar bills , for his "gold coins"

Now why is he taking the money he scorns, and giving away his "real money" in return??

Obviously this guy thinks regular american dollars are worth something, hes *selling* his gold coins for it!!!

Do u get it??

Its a scam i think...

Otherwise, he would get the gold coins into circulation by purchasing goods with them.

Why the hell can i buy it with $$$ if its "better" than $$?

Exactly, Scam

Well muzzle actually Federal Reserve Notes are also a scam, because they're not redeemable in gold. Up to the 20th century all paper money was redeemable in gold like this one claims to be, because paper money originally was a receipt. It wasn't the money itself untill recent centuries.

I've never heard of this, but I find this quote interesting:

Paul Harvey, well-known and respected news commentator, reported:

What's new? The Liberty Dollar! Fed Ex competes with the Post Office. So now there's the Liberty Dollar competing with the greenbacks printed by your government. The Liberty Dollar is backed by gold and silver. Yes, there's a competitive currency right here in the United States. In five years it has become the second most popular currency in America. [empahsis mine]

How many currencies are there in the US?

Also, Paul Harvey will say anything that he's paid to say.

There is no law that says goods and services must be paid for with Federal Reserve notes.

Sure, you can bater and trade stuff all ya want.
Only fed notes have to be accepted at all locations.

This 'liberty dollar' looks to be a scam. It may even be illegal, since its calling itself currency. I recall that there were some 'twin towers' commemorative "coins" being sold as collectors items, but that raquet got busted up because....THEY'RE NOT COINS!

These things are just vouchers for stuff from that companies warehouse, and nothing prevents that company from going belly-up, after they've made a nice profit off the people that bought their vouchers.

muzzelflash
Now why is he taking the money he scorns, and giving away his "real money" in return??

Wow, I think that thats the best arguement against it!

[edit on 10-8-2006 by Nygdan]

What about postage stamps? I honestly can't remember where (I will look it up here in a second), but I do remember hearing that US postage stamps are legal tender in the US. Now, I'm off to look it up. Maybe I should have done it first, but I've been awake for over 48 hours and caffeine and adrenaline tend to make you act rashly.

Well, so far I've found one web sight that says no: www.straightdope.com...
and one where the arguement leans to yes:
web.freepint.com... .

I found my conclusive answer here;

www.archives.gov...

specifically on page 11, item number 9. It's in .pdf format so bear with my typing of the quote:
"9) U.S. postage stamps and U.S. currency are accountable paper. U.S. postage stamps are not currency. U.S. postage stamps are a form of receipt or prepayment for mail services, paid in advance of the rendering of the service. They are not generally negotiable and are not legal tender, although some individuals or merchants may accept unused postage stamps as a form of payment. Specific U.S. postage stamps no longer are issued by an Act of Congress, although the authority to issue stamps in general rests with the USPS by law."

So now I know that stamps are not legal tender, but if you can find a sucker to that will take it, more power to you!!

Now we know...... and knowing is half the battle!

The issue with money is that any business has to accept them, they are legal tender, you can't say 'we don't accept dollars' (or at least not for debts I suppose).

A person could accept stamps for payment, indeed, it'd be as good as money, if you expect to eventually use the stamps, you don't have to buy them in the future.

A person is permited to accept something like these liberty dollars, but then again, a person can accept two goats and give a piglet in change if they want to.

Originally posted by Nygdan
This 'liberty dollar' looks to be a scam. It may even be illegal, since its calling itself currency. I recall that there were some 'twin towers' commemorative "coins" being sold as collectors items, but that raquet got busted up because....THEY'RE NOT COINS!

Off topic.....do you mean these coins Nygdan?

linky

On topic....it does seem like a scam.

[edit on 15-11-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Ok, I will tell you all right now this is in no way a real currency, just isn't.

Only congress can print money. Only the US dollar is able to purchase goods.

go to a local wal mart and try and buy something with a liberty dollar and you know what youll get? Well no for starters, and if the wal mart clerk has half a brain an investigation by the Secret Service for printing fake money.

Is it backed by gold? It may be.. maybe his gold anyways.. I see nothing on his site that proves that 1) there is gold and silver supply stocked up for the exchange of the note to metal. 2) that anyone even excepts the liberty dollar.

Also please note, Gold and Silver are just as easily inflated like our current currency.
Even Rome had inflation problems

Now, I would are to disolve the current money system and replace it with a "Liberty Dollar" style currency, as someone posted above me.. our money is worth jack, based on faith and that is it.. that faith alters and we have an economic collapse.

Edit to ask that if the price of gold goes up.. does your currency? Why are currencies so confusing???? I hate economics.

Anyways, say you buy his $10 silver note.. and the price of silver rises, could you then infact trade it back to this man for how ever much US$?

[edit on 8/15/2006 by Rockpuck]

not wanting to go off topic, but also not wanting a third party to get a bad rep; these are NOT the coins I was thinking of:

linky

nice find though Griff, I've seen commercials for that coin, looks like a neat collectors item!

Rockpuck
Even Rome had inflation proble

Thats an awesome point!

Anyways, say you buy his $10 silver note.. and the price of silver rises, could you then infact trade it back to this man for how ever much US$?

From what I gather, the 'notes' are contracts, entitling you to his companies collection of gold, and, presumably by the terms of the contract, must be redeemed in gold on demand. So in a sense, assuming that the guy isn't scamming on all levels, I'd think that you could turn in your certificate for the gold/silver, and sell it on the market at profit.

I wonder though, if he, like banks in the past, is issuing more certificates than he can actually cover? Woudl that even be legal?

[edit on 15-8-2006 by Nygdan]

[edit on 15-11-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Hello-

I just joined. Found this forum from googling liberty dollar.

I am researching the Silver Liberty and have followed several different sites. The information is available regarding most of the concerns posted here.

At any rate, have any of you read the liberty dollar site? The "rounds" are legal.

You can't call it "coins", "legal tender", or "money". You can call it "new money", "real money", and so on.

It's considered private or local currency. Like Disney Dollars, Air Miles, Ithica Hours and several others.

As far as why they accept Federal Reserve Notes in exchange for Liberty Dollars, I would imagine it has to do with debts.

You can't pay bills with Liberty Dollars (yet), so in order for the company to pay to make the silver rounds, they need legal tender.


The silver base has in fact gone up. When the Liberty Dollars were first issued, the 10 dollar Silver Liberty was 1 troy ounce. Now it's 1 half troy ounce. Those original Silver Libertys are worth more.

Most people have issues with how the value is figured out. The 10 dollar Silver Liberty isn't worth 10 dollars in silver, it's worth 1 half troy ounce of silver... which depends on what a half troy ounce is on a given day. The idea is that the face value can be exchanged for 10 dollars worth of goods or services.

It's not designed as an investment, it's designed as a private currency.

The point really, is that the Silver Liberty and the Silver certificates have value by themselves....even if you don't spend them.

FRNs and coins have no value at all.

Actually there is another currency in the US.

www.john-f-kennedy.net...
www.apfn.net...

That's a quick Google on this but I remember seeing a TV show about how Kennedy, before he died stated passing out this money that was backed by gold and silver. Not the fed.

Anyway whoever said that the fed has ownership of all money is wrong. As far as I know it is still circulating today.

[edit on 8/25/2006 by ThichHeaded]

[edit on 8/25/2006 by ThichHeaded]

If Anyone would like to buy ounces of Silver for $20 a pop I can get you all you need!

Liberty Dollars Not Legal Tender, United States Mint Warns Consumers
Justice Determines Use of Liberty Dollar Medallions as Money is a Crime

www.usmint.gov...



1 oz silver market price today $12.19

1 oz gold market price today $608.00

www.monex.com...


1 oz silver Liberty coin face value at $20

1 oz gold Liberty coin face value at $1000

www.libertydollar.org...


Become a Liberty Associate and get a discount.

www.libertydollar.org...


Get others to become Liberty Associates and get 100 liberty dollars.

www.libertydollar.org...


BANKS DO NOT ACCEPT LIBERTY DOLLARS AND NEITHER DO MOST STORES!

It is a Pyramid scam where Liberty Associates dupe unsuspecting consumers into accepting a 60cent slug of silver in place of a real dollar that they could have taken to the bank and paid bills with.

If you would like to protect your savings against inflation with precious metals buy poor quality coins minted by State authorities that are/were legal tender. Old 'real' sliver dollars and gold coins from America and other nations around the world carry a 10% or greater premium over bullion but intrinsic value can appreciate too.

A liberty dollar is a 60%+ premium without intrinsic value added.


BTW- If you run a business with a valid tax certificate you may be commiting a major federal crime if you try to give these out as change to customers.

LMAO!

I just love this guys name...

Bernard von NotHaus

source

Looks like Bernard von Nut-House to me. rofl.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Well muzzle actually Federal Reserve Notes are also a scam, because they're not redeemable in gold. Up to the 20th century all paper money was redeemable in gold like this one claims to be, because paper money originally was a receipt. It wasn't the money itself untill recent centuries.

Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable but they can be used to purchase gold and silver.

The silver in a $20 Liberty Dollar can be purchased for under $13 using 'unredeemable' federal reserve notes.

[edit on 6-1-2007 by Malichai]

I bought a few of these Silver Liberty Coins when they were listed at $10.00 each, when Silver peaked over $13.00oz last year the Liberty Dollar people revalued the currency at $20.00 a coin thereby doubling my money, even with the r/w discounts I am already ahead on that purchase value.

The FACE VALUE changed to $20 but the real value is only $13 today. Yes, the value did go up, but you could have gotten other coins for less than $10 an ounce at the time and their value would have risen by the same amount.

It is not legal tender. Maybe you might sucker someone into accepting it at supposed face value, but you can't sell it for that.

Liberty dollars are bullion coins with no intrinsic value.

Ya know...

I think the most damning piece of evidence towards these things being a scam is that the website is still there and the operator is still sucking air. The US Fed is a perty damned serious outfit. I'm reasonably sure that if these Liberty Dollars were a legit threat to the American Dollar, they would be removed... one way or the other.