The Honorable And Noble Palestinian Warriors

Originally posted by intrepid
And the insanity and mindless rhetoric continues. EVERYONE loses. :shk:

No it does not continue as I clearly said i'm through replying to a close minded Israeli apologist such as Junglejake. No need to drag this out.

Originally posted by marg6043
For such a bright person like you Jungle some facts elude you but I guess is not your fault.

Then would you care to elaborate as to what your statement meant so it can be my fault if I disagree/don't understand?

Originally posted by junglejake
Hezbullah target:

I have to break my self-imposed ATS vacation to comment on this....

I think there are many members here that would feel that Steve Kubby is a criminal. I'm not one of them, but if you want to post a picture of a nice, happy, law-abiding Jewish family, maybe you should pick a different family.

Heck, Canada had to deport the Kubby's - darn illegal immigrants-criminals, the lot of them.

Thread-related point - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Originally posted by Duzey

Originally posted by junglejake
Hezbullah target:

I have to break my self-imposed ATS vacation to comment on this....

I think there are many members here that would feel that Steve Kubby is a criminal. I'm not one of them, but if you want to post a picture of a nice, happy, law-abiding Jewish family, maybe you should pick a different family.

I had no idea who the guy even was, I just did a google image search and picked the second hit because kids were there. Thanks for the tip, think I'll switch pictures to some unknown family

EDIT to further explanation: My point was to show a family as the target of Hezbullah, and I did a google image search for "family" to find a picture. I had and still have no idea who the Kubby family is, and had no idea they were Jewish, either (if, in fact, they are). It just happened to be the best picture on the page of a family with children, I thought.

[edit on 8/8/06/08 by junglejake]

Originally posted by junglejake

Israel responded to PLO rocket attacks on northern Israeli settlements by bombing PLO encampments in southern Lebanon.

source

LOL and where did the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) crop up from? Yeah Rocket attacks....what did those rocket attacks arise from? Israel crushing Palestinian lhomes and taking their property perhaps? Killing their citizens maybe? Nooooo of course not you don't see or possibly remember that part, only the part Irael tells you to know about. You will deny it and of course absolve Israel of any wrongdoing. Its all there though. All the evidence is there you just have to look.
Its all just filthy evil muslims as another member here put it so eloquently.

Originally posted by junglejake

I had no idea who the guy even was

I sat there staring at the picture trying to figure out when marijuana activists had become Hezbollah targets. Then I decided you had no idea of who Kubby is. Kubby is a medicinal marijuana user and advocate, was a Liberterian candidate for CA governor and VP. His home was raided and instead of going to jail, he fled with his family to Canada. His story is actually very interesting, especially when he would pass notes to the police by leaving them in his garbage because he knew they were searching it. Steve Kubby is of Russian-Jewish descent.

Thanks for making me chuckle with the unintended humour.

Originally posted by junglejake
Souljah, can you tell me how you can identify civilians verses military casualties when the soldiers dress up like civilians to hide in their natural camouflage better?

Finally, this is what makes the difference and why I believe one side is far better than the other side.

Well I would just Love to show you the Civilians Targets of IAF and IDF Attacks, but the last time I did that, the result was I receive 3 warnings from the Staff of Moderators.

And I am sure they did not look like a bunch of Hizb'Allah Terrorists.

But OKEY - I understand you (kind of).

I guess you do not feel any compassion towards the People of Lebanon - which is paying the price of this conflict as we speak; to you they are just Colateral Damage, which needs to be taken in account the remove the terrible terrorists.

So - how many will it take?

1,000?

10,000?

100,000?

1,000,000?

10,000,000?

When will Jesus Be Happy?

Souljah, I'd love to talk about Jesus with you. He's changed my life and I continue to grow in Him and know God better every day. It's a wonderful journey and again I would love to talk to you about Him and what He could do for your life.

In regards to the Israel-Lebanon issue, though, I do feel compassion for the Lebanese people, I just don't ascribe the blame you do on Israel. Yes, they are killing Lebanese civilians as they fight Hezbullah. This is because Hezbullah hides amongst them. The other option would be for Israel to not fight back and lose many citizens of their own. I do not fault them for defending themselves, but I do fault Hezbullah for using the Lebanese people as a human PR shield. As Subz pointed out on this thread, Israelis are having a problem dealing psychologically with their enemy's tactics of hiding amongst civilians, because they know that if they defend their nation, they will be killing innocent people.

I could throw your question back at you, too. How many civilians have to be killed in Israel before they're allowed to retaliate and destroy this enemy that likes to hide among the innocent? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? Do they have to be pushed into the sea?

If civilian deaths bother you as much as you claim, where is your condemnation for Hezbullah's tactics?

The Palestinian milita often place sniper behind gangs of kids throwing rocks at Israeli troops.

and so hence mayhem, kids dying, kids getting held up to the camera for photo-ops etc

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by junglejake

I think Israel is justified in its actions against Hamas and Hezbullah, and I put the blame for the civilian deaths on those two terror groups' cowardly tactics. I don't hide that fact, I don't claim that Israel is just as bad as Hezbullah -- they're not. One targets civilians while hiding amongst civilian populations while the other is attacking its attackers as best it can despite their cowardly tactics. Hamas and Hezbullah are scum, Israel is not. It's not hypocritical because I see a distinctive difference between intentionally targetting and hiding in civilian populations and accidently killing/injuring civilians in an attempt to prevent more casualties in the long term fight. At least I'm honest about where I stand

You obviously don't know what goes on. Hezbollah and Hamas have not been around for eons. They rose up as a reaction, a reaction to actions, many actions. People will tire of just waiting to be killed constantly or pushed out, and some of them finally took a stand. If tomorrow you could wave a magic wand and cause the 2 groups to disappear, it would change nothing, Israel would still be doing what it has been doing for decades,which is Build Israel, and wether that entails building on top of the heads of palestinians, they do it. Sadly you would still see them as being justified that these heads were in the way of Israels right to take their land as their own.

And Israel invaded Lebanon as a reaction. But I don't want to argue with you, you have your view and I really doubt youll ever change.

Anyways..

Anyone here think that photo looks a little... posed? Just doesn't look natural to me. I blaim Hammas for fireing next to those kids if the photo is real, I also and more so blame the apparent father for .. taking a stroll around the block while Israel invades the town... not very smart now is it?

I wouldn't be standing there next to a wall while a battle rages on around me, he doesn't seem to be botherd to shelter them from possible incoming fire. Think if an artilary round landed there. What an idiot, he get worse dad award from me.

Originally posted by junglejake
Yes, they are killing Lebanese civilians as they fight Hezbullah.

Hmmmmmm, strangly only a small portion of targets destroyed belonged to Hizb'Allah - the vast majority of targets were the civilian infrasturucture of Lebanon, which has nothing to do with terrorism - apart from the fact, that it is in Lebanon.

This is because Hezbullah hides amongst them.

Oh, I just love this Answer! You just can not go wrong when fighting the "Terrible Terrorists" ey? When you actually hit a valid-military-target everybody is happy - and when you miss it and kill civilians, then the terrible terrorists were hiding among them. A win-win scenario for mights IDF and IAF; when in doubt, level the building, then blame the terrorists hiding among civilians.

The other option would be for Israel to not fight back and lose many citizens of their own. I do not fault them for defending themselves, but I do fault Hezbullah for using the Lebanese people as a human PR shield.

Lovely - so now Israel is defending itself?

Against who exactly?

The Mighty Terrorists of Hizb'Allah?

Errrrr, how exactly?

With their Katyusha rockets, which are about 50 years old?

I love it how you always turn the sides around and portray Israel as "Defending itself" - yet again, just like in Gaza Strip and West Bank, when the poor IDF were Defending itself against the mighty PLO and Hamas, while standing on occupied Land.

Strange - in my book it says, that you can not be the Poor Victim and "Defending Itself" when occupying another mans land - that is like saying that Poor Hitler was only "Defending the Third Reich" against the Terrible Poland, by Invading it.

Kind of Wacky!

I could throw your question back at you, too. How many civilians have to be killed in Israel before they're allowed to retaliate and destroy this enemy that likes to hide among the innocent? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? Do they have to be pushed into the sea?

Clearly point out to me, how many Israeli civilians were killied in 24 years of Israeli Occupation of Southern Lebanon, which triggered the birth of Hizb'Allah, as the response to an Illegal Occupation, which neither the UN nor any other International so-called Community did not solve? How many? Tell me?

And the Only People being PUSHED into the Sea are the Palestinians, which are barely holding on to the demolished and devastated Gaza Strip, which everybody forgot about already - just as they did forget about Private Gilad and the two Kidnapped soldiers on the Lebanese-Israeli front.

Well - who cares anyway huh?

Just keep those Bombs coming!

If civilian deaths bother you as much as you claim, where is your condemnation for Hezbullah's tactics?

Too bad for you propaganda machine, the Hizb'Allah have valid right to defend their homes and their land against the occupying army of IDF.

What bothes me, is the FACT that the Blood of an Israeli is worth much, MUCH more then the blood of a Lebanese or a Palestinian or any Arab surrounding them.

...oh yay.. Souljah is here.. I think your rambling man, the post is about the picture and your going on and on about.. well something you can go argue on a hundred diferent post here....

You should look into propaganda as a career, you would be great. That is... if you aren't here for that already.

This thread is just rhetoric, with a picture trying to incite a emotional response....."how dare those dirty palestinians". But the fact of the matter is that both sides have used human sheilds in this conflict.

Human Rights Watch has reported that the Israeli Defense Forces used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the Battle of Jenin 2002. [1] The practice was subsequently outlawed by the Israeli Supreme Court but Human Rights Watch claims the IDF continues to practice it[2]. In 2004, Amnesty International documented a case in which Israeli soldiers tied a 13 year old Palestinian boy to their Jeep as a shield against demonstrators. [1] Israeli human rights group B'tselem has documented cases of the practice used in the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2006

en.wikipedia.org...

Just because i dont have a picture to create a emotional response, doesnt make it any less true or disgusting.

Am I the only one that sees a father with 3 kids dressed nicley walking around a warzone??? Is that natural over there or something. That is what gets me about the picture. That and it looks fake.

I dont know about the credibility of the photo, but if it is true then Rockpuck your right, its amazing a father walking with their 2 kids around a war zone, thats how some palestinians live.....a sad violent life.
Thats why i created the thread in my sig...Justice for Palestine aswell

Originally posted by junglejake
Israeli target:


EDIT: Decided to switch pictures...Apparently the last was a less than reputable family

Reminds me of a song I know by the Ojays

(What they do!)

(They smile in your face)
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers (back stabbers)

I keep gettin' all these visits from my friends, yeah,
They come to my house again and again and again and again, yeah
So are they there to see my woman
I don't even be home but they just keep on comin'
What can I do to get on the right track
I wish they'd take some of these knives off my back







[edit on 8-8-2006 by ThePieMaN]

Originally posted by wang

Human Rights Watch has reported that the Israeli Defense Forces used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the Battle of Jenin 2002. [1] The practice was subsequently outlawed by the Israeli Supreme Court but Human Rights Watch claims the IDF continues to practice it[2]. In 2004, Amnesty International documented a case in which Israeli soldiers tied a 13 year old Palestinian boy to their Jeep as a shield against demonstrators. [1] Israeli human rights group B'tselem has documented cases of the practice used in the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2006

en.wikipedia.org...

Can you imagine a Lebanese or Hebollah court intervening and outlawing any incidence of Hezbollah using human shields? How about Lebanese or Hezbollah human rights groups documenting cases of the practice by Hezbollah?

It will never happen. This is the essence of the difference between the two camps. This is the thinking that has to change before any progress can be achieved.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by wang

Human Rights Watch has reported that the Israeli Defense Forces used Palestinian civilians as human shields during the Battle of Jenin 2002. [1] The practice was subsequently outlawed by the Israeli Supreme Court but Human Rights Watch claims the IDF continues to practice it[2]. In 2004, Amnesty International documented a case in which Israeli soldiers tied a 13 year old Palestinian boy to their Jeep as a shield against demonstrators. [1] Israeli human rights group B'tselem has documented cases of the practice used in the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2006

en.wikipedia.org...

Can you imagine a Lebanese or Hebollah court intervening and outlawing any incidence of Hezbollah using human shields? How about Lebanese or Hezbollah human rights groups documenting cases of the practice by Hezbollah?

It will never happen. This is the essence of the difference between the two camps. This is the thinking that has to change before any progress can be achieved.

When did Israel start documenting its acts of terror against civilians? It did not. Infact it has been in violation of numerous Geneva Convention Articles.

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by subz
Where is your criticism of Israel? Why can you only criticise muslims and never Israel? Blah, blah freaking blah blah!

Wouldnt want to be a complete hypocrite would you?

And yes before you ask, it is wrong for Hamas to endanger those kids like that. No question about it.

I make no claims to see Israel and Hamas in the same light. I think Israel is justified in its actions against Hamas and Hezbullah, and I put the blame for the civilian deaths on those two terror groups' cowardly tactics. I don't hide that fact, I don't claim that Israel is just as bad as Hezbullah -- they're not. One targets civilians while hiding amongst civilian populations while the other is attacking its attackers as best it can despite their cowardly tactics. Hamas and Hezbullah are scum, Israel is not. It's not hypocritical because I see a distinctive difference between intentionally targetting and hiding in civilian populations and accidently killing/injuring civilians in an attempt to prevent more casualties in the long term fight. At least I'm honest about where I stand

Do you know Hamas and Hezbollah came into being? Israeli my friend. Israel supported Hamas as an opposition to Arafat's PLO (Incase the PLO ever turned on it). Hezbollah was created when innocent little Israel wanted to play War War with Lebanon! Get your facts right mate.

Seriously, read this up... The last few posts...

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Kamran
When did Israel start documenting its acts of terror against civilians? It did not. Infact it has been in violation of numerous Geneva Convention Articles.

I was referring to the source supplied by wang:

In 2004, Amnesty International documented a case in which Israeli soldiers tied a 13 year old Palestinian boy to their Jeep as a shield against demonstrators. [1] Israeli human rights group B'tselem has documented cases of the practice used in the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2006.

Regardless, what I said about the Lebanese/Hezbollah courts still applies. They would never outlaw the practice of using civilian shield by Hezbollah, whereas the Israeli courts have already done so.