The Honorable And Noble Palestinian Warriors

"Why are the Israelis attacking civilians?"

I keep hearing that here. People are disgusted with Israel for targeting and killing civilians in the conflict in Lebanon and Gaza. I think this photo by the AP says a lot in that regard:



Link
Caption from photo:

A Palestinian militant fires toward Israeli troops during an arrest raid in the West Bank village of Qabatiyeh near Jenin, Tuesday, Aug. 8, 2006. Four Palestinians were wounded when the army arrested an Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades militant, Palestinians sources said. The army said two Islamic Jihad militants were arrested during the operation. (AP Photo/Mohammed Ballas)

Start shooting at the Israeli soldiers with two kids standing right next to you. Human life means a lot to these guys -- it means a great press opportunity.


[edit on 8/8/06/08 by junglejake]

Where is your criticism of Israel? Why can you only criticise muslims and never Israel? Blah, blah freaking blah blah!

Wouldnt want to be a complete hypocrite would you?

And yes before you ask, it is wrong for Hamas to endanger those kids like that. No question about it.

What can anybody do. . .

The entire middle east is a war zone. . .

How can you go on with your lives withou having death and destruction all around you.

That is what US has brought into Iraq every day since invasion . . .

That is what Israel/Palestine conflict has brough to each others side. . .

Can you keep the inocence alive?

No!!!!! when everybody around you is fighting.

Pity.

In some cases, neutrality is important, and critical analysis of all data is always important. But sometimes you have to come down off the fence and take a side. I choose the side that doesn't blow up busses and cafes filled with women and children. Yes, yes, yes, I know that Israel has killed civillians. But it must be understood that the radical Islamic militant tactic of suicide bombing, and targeting civilians is not restricted to Israel. It has spread to all shores.

So, if I see a photo of the Palestinians doing what they always do, out there for the world to see, I am glad. Because it seems that everyone that is now "objectively neutral" used to hammer anyone that took a stance that was anti-terror or pro-Israeli, and it did not seem like objectivity when I've been ganged up on, especially after facts have been disregarded.

Maybe if more ATS residents had been condemning both Hez and Israel equally from the beginning there wouldn't be this animosity. But they haven't, so now there's a backlash, and it is getting harder and harder to maintain position. First thing to come out of the whole bowl of crap was condemning Israel for striking Lebanon, and condemning the US for how it got citizens out of Lebanon. I don't remember seeing any outrage from the "neutral" parties about Hez abducting soldiers or rocketing Israel. Its been an uphill fight just to get some to concede that Hez uses human sheilds.

So, I'll never be upset when someone posts evidence of the tactics that these terrorists use. I imagine that Israel will be sent the bill for the hearing loss that the kids in that photo suffered, if they survived the return fire.

If, that is, the photo is real.

Excellent rebuttle hogtie. Tough to refute or ridicule anything you said.

That photo kind of makes you wonder whether the photographer survived the next min or so since he had to be totally exposed to return fire.

Originally posted by hogtie
In some cases, neutrality is important, and critical analysis of all data is always important. But sometimes you have to come down off the fence and take a side. I choose the side that doesn't blow up busses and cafes filled with women and children. Yes, yes, yes, I know that Israel has killed civillians. But it must be understood that the radical Islamic militant tactic of suicide bombing, and targeting civilians is not restricted to Israel. It has spread to all shores.

So, if I see a photo of the Palestinians doing what they always do, out there for the world to see, I am glad. Because it seems that everyone that is now "objectively neutral" used to hammer anyone that took a stance that was anti-terror or pro-Israeli, and it did not seem like objectivity when I've been ganged up on, especially after facts have been disregarded.

Maybe if more ATS residents had been condemning both Hez and Israel equally from the beginning there wouldn't be this animosity. But they haven't, so now there's a backlash, and it is getting harder and harder to maintain position. First thing to come out of the whole bowl of crap was condemning Israel for striking Lebanon, and condemning the US for how it got citizens out of Lebanon. I don't remember seeing any outrage from the "neutral" parties about Hez abducting soldiers or rocketing Israel. Its been an uphill fight just to get some to concede that Hez uses human sheilds.

So, I'll never be upset when someone posts evidence of the tactics that these terrorists use. I imagine that Israel will be sent the bill for the hearing loss that the kids in that photo suffered, if they survived the return fire.

If, that is, the photo is real.

You said it all very well, there is only one thing I can think to add to your post.

"You have voted hogtie for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month."

Thanks y'all. I guess I jist get a little riled up sometimes, is all.

Originally posted by subz
Where is your criticism of Israel? Why can you only criticise muslims and never Israel? Blah, blah freaking blah blah!

Wouldnt want to be a complete hypocrite would you?

And yes before you ask, it is wrong for Hamas to endanger those kids like that. No question about it.

I make no claims to see Israel and Hamas in the same light. I think Israel is justified in its actions against Hamas and Hezbullah, and I put the blame for the civilian deaths on those two terror groups' cowardly tactics. I don't hide that fact, I don't claim that Israel is just as bad as Hezbullah -- they're not. One targets civilians while hiding amongst civilian populations while the other is attacking its attackers as best it can despite their cowardly tactics. Hamas and Hezbullah are scum, Israel is not. It's not hypocritical because I see a distinctive difference between intentionally targetting and hiding in civilian populations and accidently killing/injuring civilians in an attempt to prevent more casualties in the long term fight. At least I'm honest about where I stand

Originally posted by junglejake
least I'm honest about where I stand

I see the true colors shining true.

So tell me you also believe that the middle east should be wipe out so Israel can live in peace and harmony?

Or that the only people that are inocent are the Israeli everybody else has not right to defend or even think on attacking Israel? because after all the middle east is full of nothing more than terrorist?

Have ever cross your mind that Hezbollah fighters and can also be Lebanese citezens?

So I guess everybody in the middle east is wrong and evil and deserve punishment but the Israelis. Right

You know what . . . don't bother to answer.

[edit on 8-8-2006 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by junglejake
least I'm honest about where I stand

I see the true colors shining through.

I make no attempt at hiding those true colors.

When I read and hear about an enemy targetting malls, schools, busses, etc. When I hear from a friend who's a paramedic in Israel what he's witnessed, what the targets of suicide bombers are, when I hear about an enemy launching rockets indescriminately into cities, when I hear about that same enemy hiding amongst civilians to stay safe, I consider them scum. They have no regard for human life except to see it as a PR opportunity if their enemy dares to strike back.

Did I say all arabs? All non-Israelis? No, I'm talking about the terror groups that are waging a war against Israel right now. While it is true that the Arab countries' governments are largely to blame for this as well, as they are financing and supporting these terror groups' attacks against Israeli civilians, that doesn't mean by default every non-Israeli is guilty.

And Marg, yes, it has crossed my mind that Hezbullah fighters can also be Lebanese citizens...Has it crossed yours that not all Lebanses citizens are Hezbullah fighters?

Originally posted by junglejake

I think Israel is justified in its actions against Hamas and Hezbullah, and I put the blame for the civilian deaths on those two terror groups' cowardly tactics. I don't hide that fact, I don't claim that Israel is just as bad as Hezbullah -- they're not. One targets civilians while hiding amongst civilian populations while the other is attacking its attackers as best it can despite their cowardly tactics. Hamas and Hezbullah are scum, Israel is not. It's not hypocritical because I see a distinctive difference between intentionally targetting and hiding in civilian populations and accidently killing/injuring civilians in an attempt to prevent more casualties in the long term fight. At least I'm honest about where I stand

You obviously don't know what goes on. Hezbollah and Hamas have not been around for eons. They rose up as a reaction, a reaction to actions, many actions. People will tire of just waiting to be killed constantly or pushed out, and some of them finally took a stand. If tomorrow you could wave a magic wand and cause the 2 groups to disappear, it would change nothing, Israel would still be doing what it has been doing for decades,which is Build Israel, and wether that entails building on top of the heads of palestinians, they do it. Sadly you would still see them as being justified that these heads were in the way of Israels right to take their land as their own.

Originally posted by junglejake
Has it crossed yours that not all Lebanses citizens are Hezbullah fighters?

Have crossed your mind that the people in the middle east are rule by tribal ties . . . to many of them not such thing as borders . . . just territories.

And don't tell me that Israel is without fault, they are as bad as the groups they seem to be fighting against.

Death is not an issue for either of them.

Originally posted by junglejake
Has it crossed yours that not all Lebanses citizens are Hezbullah fighters?

It looks to me, that this information has not crossed the minds of IDF and IAF either:

News BBC

Nearly 1,000 people, most of them civilians, have been killed in the conflict, the Lebanese government has said. More than 100 Israelis, most of them soldiers, have also been killed.

Well, it looks to me, like the IDF and the IAF are actually treating Lebanese Civilians as Hizb'Allah fighters.

1000 Lebanese Casaualties (mostly CIVILIANS) vs 100 Israeli Casaulties (MOST of them Military)

Now what does that tell you?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

What Would JESUS Say?

Originally posted by junglejake
I make no claims to see Israel and Hamas in the same light. I think Israel is justified in its actions against Hamas and Hezbullah, and I put the blame for the civilian deaths on those two terror groups' cowardly tactics.

Then you're nothing but an Israeli apologist and not worth serious debate. Thanks for clearing that up, you'll not get any more replies from me as you're closed minded.

Originally posted by Souljah
What Would JESUS Say?

What would Jesus say, Souljah?

ThePieMan, Hezbullah was formed to combat the Israeli occupation of Lebanon following the Lebanon war in 1982. The Lebanon war resulted from continuing violence between Israel and the PLO (then living in Lebanon before Lebanon kicked them out after Jordan had already kicked them out of their nation after Egypt had already kicked them out of their nation). That war began, actually, under very similar circumstances as those today:

Israel responded to PLO rocket attacks on northern Israeli settlements by bombing PLO encampments in southern Lebanon.

source

Hezbullah wasn't really an entity, though, until they received backing from Iran in the form of Iranian Republican Guards, weaponry and money.

Marg, are you claiming Arab states don't recognize borders?

Souljah, can you tell me how you can identify civilians verses military casualties when the soldiers dress up like civilians to hide in their natural camouflage better?

Finally, this is what makes the difference and why I believe one side is far better than the other side.

Hezbullah target:


Israeli target:


[edit on 8/8/06/08 by junglejake]

EDIT: Decided to switch pictures...Apparently the last was a less than reputable family

[edit on 8/8/06/08 by junglejake]

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by junglejake
I make no claims to see Israel and Hamas in the same light. I think Israel is justified in its actions against Hamas and Hezbullah, and I put the blame for the civilian deaths on those two terror groups' cowardly tactics.

Then you're nothing but an Israeli apologist and not worth serious debate. Thanks for clearing that up, you'll not get any more replies from me as you're closed minded.

And what does THIS add to the topic?

Originally posted by intrepid
And what does THIS add to the topic?

About the same as he's added to my threads Intrepid

[edit on 8/8/06 by subz]

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by intrepid
And what does THIS add to the topic?

About the same as he's added to my threads Intrepid

Oops.

[edit on 8-8-2006 by intrepid]

And the insanity and mindless rhetoric continues. EVERYONE loses. :shk:

Originally posted by junglejake


Marg, are you claiming Arab states don't recognize borders?

For such a bright person like you Jungle some facts elude you but I guess is not your fault.

Arab states have borders, Tribal groups recognizes territories . . .