Originally posted by JediMaster
I have seen many people on this sight that do not or are not for God's word. Why?

Umm... I guess my excuse is I have a different religion. I grew up Christian, but none of it really made sense to me-- I was able to comprehend it all, but it just didn't feel true. I held onto a lot of personal truths that just didn't match up with Christianity. So, I did a lot of soul searching, and a ton of research, and after over a decade, I finally found a religion that paralleled my own beliefs (it's a native religion found in Southern Brazil-- similar to Hinduism, except with one "higher power").


Since my "realization" most of my family has done their own research into different religions (never from my own persuasion). My mother is Buddist, my father practices a native American religion based in the pacific northwest, my younger brother is agnostic, my oldest brother is a witch, and another older brother is Catholic-- my younger sister remains Christian.


We have many discussions over religious theories, but we always respect each other's decisions and religious beliefs.


One neat thing, though, is in studying so many different religions, one gets a very vivd account of the world's history, as many hold different accounts of the same world events.


I believe it is good to hold an open mind when it comes to religions, because you can really learn a lot about the world around you-- this doesn't mean you have to accept them, but at least understand where one from another religion may be coming from. It really helps broaden one's horizons....

Sorry, Jedi-- I just read the entire post... Glad you decided to broaden your horizons a bit.

Originally posted by JediMaster
I have seen many people on this sight that do not or are not for God's word. Why?

Listen we did not evolve from monkeys like that nut Darwin said.

We did not just appear on Earth. God created Earth and us.

There was a Jesus and he will come again.

Like it or not this is what is true.

Which god in particular?
Why do many assume there to be only one 'god'?
Can this particular god's 'word' only be found in the Bible?
Is the word of the Bible beyond question and varied interpretation.
Did the conciousness of Jesus ever really leave?
Is it possible that the conciousness of Jesus is already here in human form?
Is it possible that it is simply your opinion of the truth that is being expressed in this post and not necessarily the actual truth (whatever that may be)?

Originally posted by Thousand

Originally posted by bambam272
Where do I start?
Some people want to see God to believe he/she exists. Well, you havent seen my mother so does that mean she doesnt exist?

No, but after exhaustive research, scientists have found that a staggering 100% of humans have maternal genetic contributors. Seeing that you are human, and all humans have been found to have mothers, I'd have to say the evidence is fairly solid that you have a mother, even if I haven't seen her. Bad analogy.

Originally posted by bambam272
I believe that there is a higher power, something that gave us that little spark of life. I guess it depends on what one person believes. Its kinda hard to think that we evolved from apes or any other tiny organism. If we did then why didnt that organism evolve also? Why does it still exist as that same organism? I dont think we came from apes.

A basic and popular misconception brought about by having only a rough idea of the Theory of Evolution. The organisms we came from no longer exist. They did evolve. Into us. And no, we most certainly did not evolve from apes. We evolved from a primate precursor, and while all apes are primates, all primates are not apes. We share the same thick branch of the evolutionary tree as apes and monkeys, but we are on our own small twig, seperate from them. This generalization is so prevalent it's saddening.

The analogy of not seeing my mother just went right over your head. All I was trying to prove was that just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, that's all.

And the Theory of Evolution? Please! Your going on the idea that someone had. How do you know we evolved from organisms that don't exist anymore if there aren't any left to study? Why is it so hard for some people to believe that there is something special about us. Im not talking about just unique but something "special"..... possibly divine about us. Wanna hear something else interesting? We are 98% similiar to chimpanzees.....apes are only 97% similiar to chimpanzees yet you would categorize them as more closely related. Why don't we look like either one yet they resemble each other so much. I don't mean to insult your intelligence at all...I appoligize if I did but my idea isn't any more unbelievable than yours actually is. Im just as curious as you are.

Originally posted by bambam272
Some people want to see God to believe he/she exists. Well, you havent seen my mother so does that mean she doesnt exist?

The idea of seeing is believing is completely wrong. I do not have to see something to believe in it, I have to see the affect it has on the world. I know your mother exists because you exist. I can't see wind, but I know it exists because it affects things.

God, on the other hand, cannot be seen, nor can his effect on the world. Okay, you could claim that a small boy who survives a horrific fire which ravaged an entire row of houses is a clear effect of the kindness of God.
But what about the other families - men, women and children - who all burned to a horrible death? Is that also the hand of your benevolent, loving God?

Until an actual effect can be attributed to a divine being, its existence will be debated.

Originally posted by bambam272
The analogy of not seeing my mother just went right over your head.

No it didn't. I knew exactly what you were getting at.

And the Theory of Evolution? Please! Your going on the idea that someone had.

An idea that is backed up with more than a little bit of quantifiable evidence.

How do you know we evolved from organisms that don't exist anymore if there aren't any left to study?

Fossil record. They may not be around anymore, but their bones are.

Why is it so hard for some people to believe that there is something special about us. Im not talking about just unique but something "special"..... possibly divine about us.

On the contrary. You'll find that most evolutionists find that there is something infinitely special about us. The fact that we played the odds and won, the fact that we are even here today, is something that makes life too special for words.

Wanna hear something else interesting? We are 98% similiar to chimpanzees.....apes are only 97% similiar to chimpanzees yet you would categorize them as more closely related. Why don't we look like either one yet they resemble each other so much.

Actually, the amount of DNA we share is reported to (dependant on the source) be as low as 95%. These numbers are useless as they are dictated by what is being compared and how it is being compared. And I did not categorize anything, thank you very much, and apes are as different from chimps as we are. Aside from them both having extensive body hair, there is very little that is similar about them.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence at all...I appoligize if I did but my idea isn't any more unbelievable than yours actually is. Im just as curious as you are.

My idea is backed by decades of intensive research conducted on great deals of hard evidence that spans many fields of science. While I must say that I do see a lot of merit in how you personally approach the bible (Not taking it as hard historical fact is a great thing), I have to say that it is backed up only by a single book authored by a multitude of faceless individuals writing about events they sometimes did not witness themselves...I think you can see where I'm going with this.

edit: I noticed that this thread has an above average amount of banned members in it. Why I find that interesting I'm not sure.

[edit on 3/7/2006 by Thousand]

why don't we discuss UNintelligent design?

byrd, maybe we were created by the C student greys
or maybe by a divine being that was drunk
or a very stupid divinity

the drunkenness would explain many of the diseases

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
why don't we discuss UNintelligent design?

byrd, maybe we were created by the C student greys
or maybe by a divine being that was drunk
or a very stupid divinity

the drunkenness would explain many of the diseases

or perhaps an ignorant one?.... like the one in the gnostic scriptures? ... Yaldabaoth/Yaltabaoth???

Maybe its actually mans fault that there is disease and death in the world. and yeah I take part of that blame. because I too dont follow Gods word all the time, I am a human, I make mistakes.

JediMaster: we live in a world that is falling apart. we also live in a country that has lost its morals and has forgotten that "God shed his grace on thee (America)."
dude, I hope you continue to do what you are doing, all im sayin is take it easy cuz throwing God is peoples faces often stirs up argument and frustration.
dont stop, but dont give up either.

God bless

Originally posted by JackofBlades

Originally posted by bambam272
Some people want to see God to believe he/she exists. Well, you havent seen my mother so does that mean she doesnt exist?

The idea of seeing is believing is completely wrong. I do not have to see something to believe in it, I have to see the affect it has on the world. I know your mother exists because you exist. I can't see wind, but I know it exists because it affects things.

God, on the other hand, cannot be seen, nor can his effect on the world. Okay, you could claim that a small boy who survives a horrific fire which ravaged an entire row of houses is a clear effect of the kindness of God.
But what about the other families - men, women and children - who all burned to a horrible death? Is that also the hand of your benevolent, loving God?

Until an actual effect can be attributed to a divine being, its existence will be debated.

Actually, I am right there with you on that matter. Everyone wants to praise the lord when something good happens but when something bad happens they say it's the work of the devil or something just went wrong. Don't put me up there with those holy rollers, trust me i'm not. I'm not saying I believe in god and i'm not saying I don't. All I was stating was that there is something particularly unique about us. Your not gonna tell me that we are the ONLY species that evolved while everything else just moped along. I don't care what you have read from what library in whoever's back yard. It's all on the account of someone's told story. Who knows, maybe the church has dipped its hands into the scientific realm trying to control people's minds another way since the old way isn't working as well as it used to. I hate church....let me state that again I HATE CHURCH! I think its the most useless thing next to golf (no pun intended). If I said that I had 3 legs and nobody was ever around to see me then it might be concluded that I had 3 legs. All i'm trying to say is you never know. We are constantly learning more about our past every day. Everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon when a SCIENTIST proves something. Just because science is supposed to be right ALL the time. Who cares. Scientists are modern day prophets for the modern day person. Everyone wants facts and truth. They don't want to believe something they can't see or hold. Are you around to check and observe the data the scientists do? Are you around to approve or disprove they're theories? No you aren't. So how do you know what they are saying is truth or bull$***. Anyway, i'm tired and i'm going to bed. I'm sure i'll have more to comment on later.
Peace

Originally posted by Thousand

Originally posted by bambam272
I don't mean to insult your intelligence at all...I appoligize if I did but my idea isn't any more unbelievable than yours actually is. Im just as curious as you are.

My idea is backed by decades of intensive research conducted on great deals of hard evidence that spans many fields of science. While I must say that I do see a lot of merit in how you personally approach the bible (Not taking it as hard historical fact is a great thing), I have to say that it is backed up only by a single book authored by a multitude of faceless individuals writing about events they sometimes did not witness themselves...I think you can see where I'm going with this.

[edit on 3/7/2006 by Thousand]

So you're telling me all you do is read scientific magazines? I got a couple books for you read. Maybe it will broaden you horizons a little. "Genesis of the Grail Kings", "Bloodline of the Holy Grail", "Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark". Those are just a few that try to decipher the periods when Adam, Moses and Jesus were around. They have really got my mind going. I also watch a TON of The History Channel, I read Scientific American and books on ancient Egypt and alot more that I could go into but i'm not right now. If you are trying to label me as a religious zealot then i'm sorry but you are wrong, if not then I am sorry for my assumptions. I am just a very curious individual that wants to know the truth. Hope that I could clear things up a bit.
Peace.

The main difference between the Bible and anything written by scientists, is that anything scientific is published worldwide and is readily accessible, and therefore debateable, by anybody (so long as they have the neccessary understanding of the subject).

Suppose science just discovered that drinking water made you thin. The entire idea, hypothesis, method of investigation, results and conclusions would be published and anyone could read them. Others would then be able to look at what was done and decide whether or not to back it up.

The Bible was written a long time ago (meaning its existence is solely that as a secondary data source and therefore outdated).
It was originally written in one language and transalted into another. This means that any future publishings are going to be flawed. The fact that it KEPT being translated further detracts from its credibility.
Finally, there are so many different versions of it that it is impossible for us to know which is the actual account of the times.

you are comparing apples and oranges here.

Suppose science just discovered that drinking water made you thin. The entire idea, hypothesis, method of investigation, results and conclusions would be published and anyone could read them. Others would then be able to look at what was done and decide whether or not to back it up.

that is a theory that would be testable, demonstrable and there would be results.

this is pure science, starting out as a theory and then the evidence would either strongly support it or it wouldnt. but if it did, it would be safe to say that its a scientific fact that water helps people lose weight and or make one thin.
*just a side note, drinking a lot a water throughout the day, daily does help many people lose weight. I witnessed that in Basic Training.

now comparing that to the bible is something totally different. there is supporting evidence that God created the earth as well as everything else. and I agree that there is not enough evidence to call it fact, there is still faith involved.
on the other side of the coin, the evolution theory requires even more faith to believe that nothing exploded and created everything, 4.6 billion years ago the earth was formed and it rained on the rocks for millions of years and made soup and then the soup came alive about 3.4 billion years ago.

no one knows if either of those happened!
none are scientific fact!
both require faith!
if one is in the school system, the other should be as well or both should be taken out!!!

leave the science there! Evolution is not science nor part of it!