Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Not for nothing but we should be so thankful and hope that we never see the day that we are ever placed underfoot someone else to where we are
powerless to make our own futures or to have freedom. When someone cannot think about the future, then what does he have left to think
And why exatly is it that they cannot think about the future?... If anyone would claim it is because of the western world, I see that the propaganda
to "blame the western world for what has happened in the Middle East for thousands of years and up to today" is working perfectly....
The Islamic middle eastern governments are some of the richest in the world, yet this fortune is held by a few. Much fewer people are rich in Middle
Eastern countries than in western countries. There are some middle eastern countries that embrace the western lifestyle, and only in those countries
do we see three classes. High income, middle income, and poor people, but in Islamic societies where Sharia law exists there is only Rich and poor
If there is so much suffering and despair in many middle eastern countries is because of their culture, not because of the western world.
Anyways, i think you are deviating from the topic of the thread by "trying to blame the mentality of radical middle eastern societies on outside
influence, in this case the western world"...
Semper is talking about the mentality that people in radical middle eastern countries are raised in which allows them to strap their children with
bombs and send them to kill as many people as possible.
There is a huge difference with having an 18 year old man/woman decide to join the army and fight wars if it is necessary, and sending 8-20s year olds
who are brainwashed into believing that "they will go to heaven and will be heroes if they go to a certain death and kill as many people as
possible". Having 18 year olds joining the Army, Air Force, Marines, National Guard, Navy does not equal "certain death".... Strapping a bomb to
your 8-20s year old child is equal to "certain death....
Normally in western societies no parent would even contemplate the idea of indoctrinating "martyrdoom" in their child and then strapping their 8-20s
year old child with a bomb, or having them take up arms to fight. There might be some differences with some demented people in western society who do
terrible things to their children, but this is the exception and not the rule.
Radical Middle Eastern societies, or those societies who do not embrace the new ideas which the western world has embraced, indoctrinate people from
childhood to accept martyrdoom and the killing of infidels (anyone that does not believe in Allah and his prophet Mohammed, not what some people
around here apparently are trying to claim. I have read the Q'uran too...)
Have Christian societies in the past also performed terrible acts even to their own?... Unfortunately yes, but this "happened in the past, as in the
middle ages", while in radical Middle Eastern societies they are still stuck in this mentality and many of them don't want to change.
Anyways, we are "talking about the present and not about the past" and "this thread is about the mentality of radical Middle Eastern societies",
it is not about the dellusion by some that the western world has anything to do with the mindset that is being indoctrinated in Middle Eastern people,
who are born and grow up into a family or society with radical ideals since childhood.
To even begin to understand in what kind of mindset a parent has to be in to send their 8-20s year old child to certain death we would have to examine
some of the traditions which still exist these days in radical Middle Eastern countries
There is a huge difference between western society and Middle Eastern societies who embrace Sharia law or are extremists. We can see this difference
in the treatment of their women. In a Middle Eastern society where Sharia law is supreme, or has extremist ideals, a woman is the property of a man.
A man can do whatever he wants with his daughter, if his daughter does not want to do what her father wants he can punish her in whatever way he sees
fit. Some women are burnt, or tortured in some way, while some are killed and the men are not punished by the law for doing this. Some of our
members who have been in Middle Eastern countries can be a testament of this happening in these societies.
When a girl reaches a certain age, normally 4-12 years old, althou it has been performed also when the child is older, it is custom in radical middle
eastern societies to cut the clitoris from the child with an often rusty, dull blade, or even with a broken bottle.
Although this act does not happen only in Middle Eastern countries, it also happens in African countries, and even in industrialized countries where
there is immigration of people from Middle Eastern and African countries where this practice is normal. This ritual is done in radical Muslim
societies with the belief that this will help make the woman a better Muslim and she will more easily find a husband.
This act is normally performed by the father who tells his daughter that she is his property, and she must do what he tells her as he cuts her
clitoris. But this act is also at times performed by the mother, or other female relatives and other women in a village. A child/woman who has not
had her clitoris removed, there are some Muslim women who do not want their daughters to go through this, is viewed as "impure" and is an outcast
for the entire village. This treatment and feeling has to be endured by the child until she becomes and adult, and many times when the child is old
enough she believes she must perform this ritual to become "pure" and be a good Muslim.
Likewise when it comes to the greatest cause of all, dying in the cause for Allah is viewed as the greatest of all causes.
There are two main forms of Jihad, The greater Jihad, and the lesser Jihad. Although in the Muslim scriptures there are passages which say the
greater Jihad is the Jihad for one's soul, there are some hadeeth which state that the greater Jihad is the violent Jihad. Hadeeth are collections
of words and deeds performed by the prophet Muhammed/Muhammad.
Originally posted by ThePieMaN
A mouse with his leg caught in a trap will gnaw off his leg to escape the trap.
If it came down to war...you would send your son off just as your parents did when you joined. The one difference being was the USA has an army to
speak of. Was there a guarantee you would come back? If you were in a battle, what was your thoughts on the enemy? Take him out and as many as
possible or sit back and wait to die?
As i have said above there is a huge difference between an 18 year old deciding to join any branch of the Arm Forces, and strapping an 8-20s year old
with a bomb.
Being in the military does not equal mutilation or certain death, strapping a bomb in a child will assure at the least mutilation and at the worse
death. More often what happens is the death of the child since there are enough explosives to kill several people.
I see you trying to "equate" joining the Arm Forces with "strapping a bomb" as a desperate measure in your part trying to humanize the act being
done in radical Islamic societies.
Originally posted by ThePieMaN
1982, Israeli IAF pilots penetrated Iraqi territory, passing through several hostile borders with heavily modified flying tanks of fuel. It was a
suicide mission. What seperates them from the Palestinians that they can actually sit there and describe to you about the profile of a Palestinian
suicide bomber?Is it the Plane that makes the difference? Does the idiea of a plane make you feel more comfortable? Is it the suicide vest ? Which?
Think about it.
Who really has to think about it is you... Pilots do not go to a certain death by getting in their aircraft... Children strapping a bomb to their
chest assures death....
---edited to add some comments---
[edit on 15-7-2006 by Muaddib]