Crowley, what is so bad?

Originally posted by Cinosamitna
Tamahu: As for the Illuminati, what do you think of the below?

The Writings of George Washington from the Original Manuscript Sources, 1745-1799. John C. Fitzpatrick, Editor.--vol. 36 Mount Vernon, October 24, 1798.

“It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am.”

"The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of seperation). That Individuals of them may have done it, or that the founder, or instrument employed to found, the Democratic Societies in the United States, may have had these objects; and actually had a seperation of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned."

Penn Packet January 1779

“I have heard much of the nefarious, and dangerous plan, and doctrines of the Illuminati, but never saw the Book until you were pleased to send it to me.
Penn Packet January 1779

Well, assuming this is authentic, it is very interesting.

George Washington was certainly a FreeMason.

I still don't understand why S.A.W. would claim that men who belonged to the Bavarian Illuminati were White Magicians, if the Bavarian Illuminati's plans were of a malignant nature?

Perhaps the likes of Goethe, St. Germain and Cagliostro joined only in order to avert the diabolical plans of Adam Weishaupt; if A.W. was indeed a Black Adept?



What do you think about the following from a Moorish Brother?

Pyramid on US dollar - Above Top Secret Conspiracy Community


MOOR45:


The seal which all of you are talking about was quite different. The info is a matter of public record and well known fact that the original seal was a Phoenix instead of an eagle. The pyramid was on the opposite side and the Phoenix on the other. This info can be found at th U.S. printing office of 1996 and the Dept of State Bureau of Public affairs. The Phoenix is also known as QuetzalCoatl and Maru -Moru etc. Phoenix is rooed in the word Phoenicians or Cannanites. The stars were 6 pointed intead of 5 pointed. The current seal represents the federl governmnet of which George Washington is the 1st president. But he is not the first President of the United States Government in Congress Assembled as under the confederation who was Samuel Huntington(uspresidency.com...). Then we also had the continental presidents. George was actual the 11th president of this nation. 11 being a special for those who study numerology. The present Federal government is a corporation (28 U.S.C 3002 (15). U.S.C meaning United States Codes. Also the original pyramid was a step pyramid not an elongated one like used today. This was consistent with the style of pyramid built here in this hemisphere by the Olmecs, Aztecs, Toltecs, Mayans, Monocans, Anasazi, Moors, etc. There is so much but I'll let you build on that. Alot I really am not allowed to go into but I love to teach and learn. I'll keep my pledge though!


Oh yeah. It carries out the business of the government. That is why the government can sue and be sued. But there is two sides (mirror-image) to everything. The other side of the government is the republic which has not run the country since 1789 but exists not known to the general public.

Crème is a black adapt because he deceives us on both who is the Maitreya and also he tried to manifest Christ into flesh as a personality and that is black magic – for it distracts from noticing the true Christ. Just as the Dugpas (in the East) wish for the event to go unnoticed, the Dugpas in the West which to replace it with another being – which has never incarnated.

Well it is taught that the Word can be made flesh within us..., but not in the way that B. Creme and friends thought of course.

They also mistake Joshua Ben-Peshu for Jesus but he was another high adept who was hung from a tree.

Can you provide any resources on this?

Which one is known as Aberamentho then?

Also, Lucis Trust is involved with the United Nations and pushes a phony form of “universal brotherhood”. Crème is an awakened master of 'Klippothe'!

Wouldn't surprise me.

The alteration of degrees was just the external signs which reflected a new way of thinking. It's complex to explain, for it came about after a misunderstanding from the teachings of Blavatsky and various new understandings and eventually 3 degrees became 6 and then 9, and then 33, and higher than this in some non afiliated UGL's. The degrees themselves are neither good nor bad, but reflect the materialistic approach which moved steadily away from Cagliostro and Goethe etc.

It is said that Cagliostro founded modern "Egyptian Masonry".

Is this the same Egyptian Masonry that has 96, 97 or 99 Degrees or whatever?

Also, from what I've learned, the 33 Degrees have a spiritual meaning in relation to the 33 years of Yeshua, 33 vertabrae of the Spinal Column(Kundalini), etc.



Your insights are always appreciated.





Regards

Hi Tamahu, please see my comments below:

Well, assuming this is authentic, it is very interesting. George Washington was certainly a FreeMason. I still don't understand why S.A.W. would claim that men who belonged to the Bavarian Illuminati were White Magicians, if the Bavarian Illuminati's plans were of a malignant nature? Perhaps the likes of Goethe, St. Germain and Cagliostro joined only in order to avert the diabolical plans of Adam Weishaupt; if A.W. was indeed a Black Adept?

This is a good point because the Bavarian Illuminati attracted the best of men in many areas of expertise. I’d have to agree with SAW, if he did say that Goethe, St. Germaine and Cagliostro were members of the Bavarian Illuminati. I understand the 3 men were illuminated but did not know they were connected directly to the Bavarian Lodge. They were certainly white adepts no matter when looked upon as either “white” or “black”. But based on various sources I’ve come across in my research over the years, I tend to see Adam Weishaupt as nothing less than a materialist, who thought he could outdo God, at the very least. I also think that many Great men who followed Adam Weishaupt were not aware of all his evil plans, as Washington and many others were certainly aware of.

What do you think about the following from a Moorish Brother?

….. fact that the original seal was a Phoenix instead of an eagle. The pyramid was on the opposite side and the Phoenix on the other. .. The Phoenix is also known as QuetzalCoatl and Maru -Moru etc. Phoenix is rooed in the word Phoenicians or Cannanites……..

Manly P Hall also confirms this about the Phoenix and origins in the “Secret Destiny of America”. But the connections are not so much Canaanite, as they are dated from the time of Amenhotep IV and his bringing the God “Aten” into Egypt.

The current seal represents the federl governmnet of which George Washington is the 1st president. But he is not the first President of the United States Government in Congress Assembled as under the confederation who was Samuel

The Confederation has its roots under the Articles of Confederation. This precedes the Constitution because the Constitution was simply the manner of defining the limits to the power of government. The true America lies in the Articles of Confederation. These articles are lying dormant today and can be activated by the people if they understood they even existed.

Then we also had the continental presidents. George was actual the 11th president of this nation. 11 being a special for those who study numerology. The present Federal government is a corporation (28 U.S.C 3002 (15). U.S.C meaning United States Codes.

This is correct. When the “United States of America” became known as the united states, or THE UNITED STATES (CAPPS) it identifies it with a corporation. The true United States of America corresponds directly with your being either a sovereign, or a citizen. A citizen lives under the corporation, whereas a free sovereign lives under no Corporation. Even the soldiers are called GI’s or General Issues having some dollar value. But another thing to recall is the date 1776. When was America founded? If the Constitution was the true founding than how it was not signed until years after 1776? Yes, so America was a true Republic for may be a little over 10-20 years. Many people opposed the Constitution including Patrick Henry, saying he smelled a rat but the real danger was in the Amendments. .

Also the original pyramid was a step pyramid not an elongated one like used today. This was consistent with the style of pyramid built here in this hemisphere by the Olmecs, Aztecs, Toltecs, Mayans, Monocans, Anasazi, Moors, etc. There is so much but I'll let you build on that. Alot I really am not allowed to go into but I love to teach and learn. I'll keep my pledge though!

Fascinating, I understand the Moors were a great part of Sufism, I believe? They are also connected to the Muslim Harun-al-Rachid. I had read somewhere (Hall?) that Al Rashid incarnated as later sir, F. Bacon. I’ll have to investigate this further though.

Oh yeah. It carries out the business of the government. That is why the government can sue and be sued. But there is two sides (mirror-image) to everything. The other side of the government is the republic which has not run the country since 1789 but exists not known to the general public

The year of the first nationwide US election was 1789. In 1787, the Constitution came into effect. This means that the Constitution is in a sense, a trustee agreement between the Congress and the government. The Constitution was later amended to declare that the Sovereign people of America are now mere “citizens”. In other words we live in a Democracy under International Admiralty Maritime Law. This also explains the judges now ruling (almost insane verdicts) such as “the law does not apply in my courtroom”.

They also mistake Joshua Ben-Peshu for Jesus but he was another high adept who was hung from a tree.

Can you provide any resources on this?

My apologies for the typo here: I was referring to the man named Joshua Ben Pandira who died 105 BC. He was hanged on a tree. They misunderstood the name Joshua Emmanuel (Jesus Christ) with Ben Pandira (another high soul). But there was also 2 Jesus’ one from Luke and one from Matt. One child died at age 10 or 11 – that was the time in the temple where he came out of. It turns out that there were 2 Maria’s also and the Mary of one Jesus child took as her son, the other boy! Without going into too much detail, the soul of Zarathustra moved from the one child into the other child and grew up as the man we call Jesus, becoming Christ at the age of 30 years.

Which one is known as Aberamentho then?

I’ve never come across this name before? Did he live at the time of Jesus, or a hundred years before?

[edit on 2-9-2006 by Cinosamitna]

It is said that Cagliostro founded modern "Egyptian Masonry". Is this the same Egyptian Masonry that has 96, 97 or 99 Degrees or whatever? Also, from what I've learned, the 33 Degrees have a spiritual meaning in relation to the 33 years of Yeshua, 33 vertabrae of the Spinal Column(Kundalini), etc.

Great question! In fact, the 33 degrees is exactly the 33 years of Yeshua but it goes much deeper. Every multiple of 33 is also relevant. For example the year 333, the Catholic Church was starting to argue internally over the divinity of Jesus Christ. The powerful magician named Bishop Spyridon in the year 325AD proved that Jesus was the son of God but he ended up killing the Roman Lawyer who opposed him by casting black magic. Around the year 333AD we see the people losing their ability to understand the Lucifer influences, which they used to understand the Cosmic Christ. It was this influence which allowed them to understand and the reason why the Bible is so hard to read today. Another quick example: In the year 666 AD, A powerful black adept named Joshua Ben Jesu attempted to incarnate clairvoyant black magicians under the influence of Behemoth. The followers of the Prophet Mohammed of Gabriel thwarted the attempt by Jesu to incarnate black magicians. The year 1998 is also another numeric that corresponds with the multiples of 666, 333, or 99, or 33 etc. I understand the degrees were once only 3, 6 and the 33 degree was a spiritual understanding never used as a degree until later on.

Blessings,
Cino


[edit on 2-9-2006 by Cinosamitna]

Originally posted by Cinosamitna
This is a good point because the Bavarian Illuminati attracted the best of men in many areas of expertise. I’d have to agree with SAW, if he did say that Goethe, St. Germaine and Cagliostro were members of the Bavarian Illuminati.

Before we continue, let me clear something up real quick.

Samael never said that they were members of the Bavarian Illuminati.

He did say they were White Adepts.

But there are various other sources which show that White Adepts in question were members of the Bavarian Illuminati, one of them perhaps being Manly P. Hall, if I'm not mistaken.

So there's still a possibility that they were not members of said group.

Samael never said that they were members of the Bavarian Illuminati.
He did say they were White Adepts. But there are various other sources which show that White Adepts in question were members of the Bavarian Illuminati, one of them perhaps being Manly P. Hall, if I'm not mistaken. So there's still a possibility that they were not members of said group.

Yes, and may be Hall was. He was certainly advanced, although not quite of the same calibre of SAW. I used to live not far from where he grew up. And thanks for clearing it up, as I wasn't sure (at first) if I had misunderstood SAW.

Btw, I had some great difficulty in getting this to post up correctly tonight. It must be late and I see we've caught each other up.

Blessings.

[edit on 2-9-2006 by Cinosamitna]

I Am not as knowledgeable in the historic and hierarchical relationships within the lodges, and masons, as you guys are.
However ive noticed something that maybe you are all missing out on. This relationship between the symbolism on the dollar and eye was said in an above post:

The Phoenix is also known as Quetzalcoatl and Maru -Moru etc.

This is said to have been in symbolism by yourselves and others for a long time, however I am sure then that you guys are aware that a tomb with amazing finds was found in south America in the late 20th Century, laying uncovered for well over a 1000 years or there abouts. It is very similar to a pyramid and had many hidden passages and rooms. The tomb and entire complex is full of numerology and symbolism and is known for the "Jade Mask" found of the "Bat God" or alternatively "Snake God” or as "the feathered Serpent", many names for him/it but known by known by the local native Indians
As "Quetzalcoatl"

This knowledge is widely known in society with books written on it such as the "super gods" etc. Much numerology and symbolism by using numbers and moving the mask in its orientation has been posited and seems anyway to be making some sense when the resultant images are viewed.

This "Quetzalcoatl" is also known with the native America- Indian Culture as the god of Death or a bringer of death.

In some rural parts of Mexico, there still exists a belief that in some caves, near certain towns, there lives a monster, a great feathered snake that can only be seen by special people. The monster must be placated for there to be plentiful rain. The feathered snake is also still worshipped by Huichol and Cora Indians.

Source Wikipedia

I wondered then why you see no connections here or are exploring it further as the symbolism that is talked about is from long before this actual more solid authentic actual archeogical remains is available to everyone. Surely it has a major bearing as it almost seems to me that not to take it into account and explore it further would be like looking at ancient Egyptian papyrus to discover about the royal dynasties whilst ignoring the Gaza Plateau or the pyramids?

Quetzalcoatl


As above with some astrological info and Pics

Just adding some of my opinions

Walk in Love and Light Always

Elf
[edit on 2-9-2006 by MischeviousElf spelling and links and quote]

[edit on 2-9-2006 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Tamahu

Some also say that Manly P. Hall was assassinated by the Black Lodge, by a couple of Skull & Bones-men.

Huh? Who said that? Why would members of a college frat in New England want to go to California and assasinate an octogenarian writer who'd never been a member of their frat anyway?

Brother Hall died peacefully at his home on August 29, 1990, from natural causes. He was 89 years old.

It's just hear-say for the most part.

For reference:

A Google Search

A certain Gnostic instructor has also mentioned that Manly P. Hall was murdered, although he didn't specify who did it.

Wouldn't surprise me at all, considering that Skull & Bones is not simply a harmless Fraternity.

Though I'm willing to bet that you'll disagree(and no, I don't by any means agree with all, or even much of the material found in that Google search).

i do recall there being accounts of crowley admitting that he sodomized over 125 children and bashed their raped bodies like ragdolls after.

why would he admit doing something if it isnt true? somebody is lying.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
i do recall there being accounts of crowley admitting that he sodomized over 125 children and bashed their raped bodies like ragdolls after.

why would he admit doing something if it isnt true? somebody is lying.

Crowley "admitted" no such thing. He opposed child abuse, considering it a Christian phenomenon (he himself was physically and sexually abused as a child by Christians).

Crowley was even opposed to abortion, which he called "the most shameful form of murder".

FAQ On Aleister Crowley At ALT.RELIGION

[edit on 5-9-2006 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Tamahu



It is said that Cagliostro founded modern "Egyptian Masonry".

Is this the same Egyptian Masonry that has 96, 97 or 99 Degrees or whatever?

No. The Egyptian Lodge founded by Cagliostro was Co-Masonic, whereas the orthodox Egyptian Rites (Memphis and Mitzraim) were not.

Originally posted by Tamahu


Well, assuming this is authentic, it is very interesting.

George Washington was certainly a FreeMason.

I still don't understand why S.A.W. would claim that men who belonged to the Bavarian Illuminati were White Magicians, if the Bavarian Illuminati's plans were of a malignant nature?

It is true that Washington spoke out against the Illuminati in that particular letter. However, it must be put into context. At the time, Washington knew little or nothing about the authentic Illuminati, and was basing his opinions on the hearsay that had reached the colonies, i.e., the Jesuit propaganda that painted the Illuminati as evil in Bavaria.

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

As Weishaupt lived under the tyranny of a despot and priests, he knew that caution was necessary even in spreading information, and the principles of pure morality. This has given an air of mystery to his views, was the foundation of his banishment.... If Weishaupt had written here, where no secrecy is necessary in our endeavors to render men wise and virtuous, he would not have thought of any secret machinery for that purpose.

www.freemasonry.bcy.ca...

[edit on 5-9-2006 by Masonic Light]

Thanks for the info Cinosamitna and Masonic Light



That stuff MOOR45 addressed regarding the U.S. is certainly worth investigating more.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Tamahu
It is said that Cagliostro founded modern "Egyptian Masonry".

Is this the same Egyptian Masonry that has 96, 97 or 99 Degrees or whatever?

No. The Egyptian Lodge founded by Cagliostro was Co-Masonic, whereas the orthodox Egyptian Rites (Memphis and Mitzraim) were not.

I also understand that there were various splits in the 'Egyptian' Lodges:

Descriptions Of The Degrees Of Memphis With Ritualistic Extracts

Burt, Calvin C.


Egyptian Masonic History of the Original and Unabridged Ancient and Ninety-sixth Degree Rite of Memphis


History Of The Egyptian Masonic Rite Of Memphis Before Called Ancient And Primitive Rite


This book was written for the purpose of showing what the Egyptian Masonic Rite of Memphis really is; as some of the Craft have not had the advantages of Masonic libraries, and have been made to believe that it is an innovation on the other Rites or Systems.... The Masonic order of Memphis is...the sole depository of high Masonic science, the true primitive rite, the supreme rite, that which has come down to us without any alteration.... In fine, the Rite of Memphis is the true Masonic tree, and all other systems, whatever they may be, are only detached branches of this institution, rendered respectable by its vast antiquity. This book is THE ONLY HISTORICAL WORK IN PRINT COVERING THE EVOLUTION OF THE RITE OF MEMPHIS IN THE UNITED STATES by one of its original members and leaders. It includes the complete texts of documents not obtainable elsewhere and also fascinating extracts from numerous rituals of the Rite of Memphis (including the Rose Croix) before it was abbreviated by Harry J. Seymour and/or John Yarker. Also included are the complete texts of the Forty-third Degree, Adept Installator, Forty-fourth Degree, Grand Consecrator, and Forty-fifth Degree, Grand Eulogist rituals.

Any comments on this?


Also, can you point out any resources in regard to info on the Lodge that Cagliostro founded?

Could this possibly be a continuation of it?:

www.ath-ka-ptah.org...


As mentioned before, it seems that Cagliostro was representing the Hierarchies of the White Lodge(as the Gnostic Lumisials are now) when he proposed to introduce the Priestess to the Masonic Lodges(and was rejected by the Grand Lodge).


I think you also mentioned a while back that you knew how to obtain some writings of Adam Weishaupt?

I can't find them anywhere.


Oh, wait...


Here:

64.52.229.100...



But it looks I'll have to learn German.

[edit on 5-9-2006 by Tamahu]

proposed to introduce the Priestess to the Masonic Lodges(and was rejected by the Grand Lodge).

Did Aleister Crowely not introduce the Role of the Priestess when he re-wrote the "Gnostic Mass" - although the O.T.O. is not really a part of Orthodox FreeMasonry - it does operate via Masonic Systems/Terminology. The O.T.O. accepts Women Adepts.

[edit on 5-9-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

I'm not totally sure Seraphim_Serpente.


As far as I'm aware, the pre-Crowley O.T.O. accepted Women.


And to my knowledge, the original O.T.O. also taught White Tantra, as in what was taught by Arnold Krumm-Heller and Samael Aun Weor(withdrawal from the Sexual Act before reaching orgasm); which is obviously much different than A. Crowley's "Sex Magick" system.




[edit on 5-9-2006 by Tamahu]

thats bullcrap masonic how can you prove that he didnt admit to this? theres too many sources claiming that his own personal accounts had to do with abusing children. if he was in fact a bad man why would you try to make him look good to others? are masons trying to get the rest of the world to accept dark perversions? youve got some explaining to do.

Originally posted by Tamahu
I'm not totally sure Seraphim_Serpente.


As far as I'm aware, the pre-Crowley O.T.O. accepted Women.


And to my knowledge, the original O.T.O. also taught White Tantra, as in what was taught by Arnold Krumm-Heller and Samael Aun Weor(withdrawal from the Sexual Act before reaching orgasm); which is obviously much different than A. Crowley's "Sex Magick" system.

Crowley learned his system from the O.T.O. The system was already in place in O.T.O., having been worked out by Theodore Reuss. The only thing that Crowley actually changed was the degree rituals, not the magical system.

Supposedly, the O.T.O. sex magical system was practiced by the earliest Gnostic Christian sects, but was later corrupted by Pauline Christianity into the Roman Catholic Eucharist.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
thats bullcrap masonic how can you prove that he didnt admit to this? theres too many sources claiming that his own personal accounts had to do with abusing children. if he was in fact a bad man why would you try to make him look good to others? are masons trying to get the rest of the world to accept dark perversions? youve got some explaining to do.

Actually, you're the one with explaining to do. You're the one who made the allegation, so prove it.

As one who has studied Crowley for many years, I'm very much aware that he did not make such a claim, and that he would not have tolerated any abuse of children.

You originally said that Crowley claimed to have raped and murdered children, which is false. Crowley was an advocate of "free love", not of crime. The only "murder" he ever committed is spoken of in his autobiography, where he recounts an incidence in India where he shot two Thugees who were attempting to mug him. One of them died, yet this was clearly in self-defense.

Aleister Crowley was indeed a controversial individual, and he purposefully played up to his image. But to just make stuff like that up to accuse him of is ridiculous, childish, and unfair. If you don't like Crowley, I'm sure you can find some real reasons without having to resort to those kinds of tactics.

[edit on 6-9-2006 by Masonic Light]

sex magical system was practiced by the earliest Gnostic Christian sects, but was later corrupted by Pauline Christianity into the Roman Catholic Eucharist.

Yeah, actually that is what I figured too - Thanks Masonic Light!

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Tamahu
I'm not totally sure Seraphim_Serpente.


As far as I'm aware, the pre-Crowley O.T.O. accepted Women.


And to my knowledge, the original O.T.O. also taught White Tantra, as in what was taught by Arnold Krumm-Heller and Samael Aun Weor(withdrawal from the Sexual Act before reaching orgasm); which is obviously much different than A. Crowley's "Sex Magick" system.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Supposedly, the O.T.O. sex magical system was practiced by the earliest Gnostic Christian sects, but was later corrupted by Pauline Christianity into the Roman Catholic Eucharist.

Well, we already debated on the validity or non-validity of Paul remaining anti-Gnostic after his Spiritual revelation on his way to Damascus(where I quoted Samael Aun Weor as saying that Paul quit persecuting the Christians(Gnostics) after this event)...


Aside from that, I'll have to assert that much of Roman Catholicism is a deviation from the Christian(or Christic, to speak more Universally) teachings of Paul.

According to Gnosis, Paul, being a Prophet, would had to have worked in the 9th Sphere in order to Build the Solar Bodies(the Mercabah or Solar Sahu) through White Tantra; as all Prophets or High Level Bodhisattva's need the Solar Bodies in order to descend into the Hell Realms as to elevate suffering Sentient Beings from them.

In other words, the Solar Bodies protect the Bodhisattva from getting overwhelmed by the extremely dense and heavy vibrations of the Klipoth, so that she or he can help alleviate the suffering of Sentient Beings(who are in Klipothic mind states whether they have a physical body or not) by teaching them, without getting pulled down into Hell him or her-self.

Crowley learned his system from the O.T.O. The system was already in place in O.T.O., having been worked out by Theodore Reuss. The only thing that Crowley actually changed was the degree rituals, not the magical system.

Speaking of Sex Magic:

SUMMARY OF CROWLEY’S SEX MAGICK SYSTEM

VII° Adoration of the phallus as Baphomet, both within and without
VIII° Interaction with something outside the closed vessels of the vagina and the anus
IX° Interaction inside the vagina with either the blood or the secretions of a woman when excited
X° Impregnation + fertilisation of an egg + the act of creation or succession (e.g. election of the OHO)
XI° Two-folded: i) Isolation in the anus where it is considered unable to interact with anything at all ii) interaction with excrements (one of Crowley’s preferred ingredients) and small amounts of blood (when small wounds occur through the intercourse), mucus and of course the mucous membranes that lead directly into the blood supply, etc., etc.

How could this be the O.T.O.'s original system of Sexual Magic?

If it were, Arnold Krumm-Heller would have certainly distanced himself from the O.T.O. from the very beginning, which he did not.

Crowley is said to have created the Solar Bodies, but then fell(remained a Hanasmuss), which was the beginning of all the perversity that he propagated throughout the Occult World.

As I said, if that was the original O.T.O. Sex Magic system, why would Arnold Krumm-Heller(who taught White Tantra) have associated with the O.T.O. at all?






[edit on 6-9-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
thats bullcrap masonic how can you prove that he didnt admit to this? theres too many sources claiming that his own personal accounts had to do with abusing children. if he was in fact a bad man why would you try to make him look good to others? are masons trying to get the rest of the world to accept dark perversions? youve got some explaining to do.

Well what your asking is for someone to prove a negative. But anyhow even if you you can't provide any source for that statement I can show you where it came from.

It appears from the Magical Records of Frater Perdurabo that He made this particular sacrifice on an average about 150 times every year between 1912 e.v. and 1928 e.v. Contrast J.K.Huyman's "La-Bas", where a perverted form of Magic of an analogous order is described.

Source Chapter 12 of Magick in Theory and Practice

So as you can see your "source" didn't even get the number right. The correct number of "male children" was at least 2,400 and he lived for 19 years after he wrote that. Now that clearly is an absurd number, nobody could get away with that. So maybe he means something else?

Looks at the very next sentence. La-Bas is a novel that includes human sacrifice. Now if that contrasts with what Crowley meant.. clearly he is not talking about killing people.

Supposedly, the O.T.O. sex magical system was practiced by the earliest Gnostic Christian sects, but was later corrupted by Pauline Christianity into the Roman Catholic Eucharist.

Actually for the most part the O.T.O.'s sex magick (and western sex magick in general) comes from Paschal Beverly Randolph via the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor. Randolph never got any credit for this in his lifetime because of his black ancestry.

Originally posted by Tamahu

As I said, if that was the original O.T.O. Sex Magic system, why would Arnold Krumm-Heller(who taught White Tantra) have associated with the O.T.O. at all?

Because he used their system.

For those who are intrested here is one of the better articles about the O.T.O. sex magick system, it's developments, and it's relation to eastern sex magick.

www.esoteric.msu.edu...

(This is a peer-reviewed academic journal about western esotericism)