Originally posted by Springer
NOBODY is going to get hurt by pixels on a screen (with the rare exception of certain epileptic conditions)]

I think that the flashing banner at the top of ATS is designed to trigger epileptic seizures so that Aliens can take over the minds of ATS members. Other than that I cant see any reason why ATS has flashing banners that lie to you and state that you have won a free laptop. Yep, ATS is triggering epileptic seizures in a conspiracy with aliens. You heard it here first folks and from the above quote it is clear that Springer is well aware of the harm a few pixels can cause.

Never click a flashing banner or the aliens will take over your mind!!!

The subject of UFO's, extraterrestrials, visitations, and related abduction experiences can be complex and passionate, spanning the spectrum from outright amateurish hoax, to inexplicable events that leave us in awe.

Combine that with a similar spectrum of interested people that range from religious-like believers to hardened skeptics and the subject has been extremely volatile for over 50 years.

And then... to make matters worse, we have "experienced" camps of UFOlogists constantly hoaxing each other with public "feuds" and credible sounding hoaxes.

And to further fuel to chaos of this field, people with potentially interesting experiences all too often embellish important points in an attempt to gain attention.

It's a maddening topic a best... and it seems like "best" moments can be few and far between.


Skepticism is important in all factors of this and other "conspiracy-like" topics. If we're to determine what stories may be true, we must apply critical thought, detailed analysis, more critical thought, and a healthy dose of what may seem harsh examination.


The truth is important. It can survive scrutiny. It can tolerate skepticism. It can recover from harsh questions.


However, AboveTopSecret.com does not tolerate impolite, rude, crass, and demeaning contributions from our members, no matter what the topic. If any of us are unable to provide the all important skeptical side of an analysis without maintaining respect and decorum, then we should not participate.


There are people who are coping with trying to explain a difficult experience within these topics. Google searches will undoubtedly lead them here. It would be a shame if a few people who are unable to control their rhetoric end up driving someone away who has an important contribution.

If this means being polite to a few people with hoaxes, delusions, or mundane experiences, then buck up and deal with it. It's worth it. The value of helping a genuine soul with a genuine experience far outweighs the pleasure you derive from flaming a hoaxer.


Certainly, we do not, nor should we ever, suffer the likes of hoaxers and pranksters. But this is AboveTopSecret.com damn it... we're supposed to be doing it better here... we're supposed to be setting the standard.


I can be polite to 1,000 people posting improbable stories if it means I find 1 that is probable. Can you?

Hi Springer, I'm confused so I was hoping you could clear it up for me so I won't be reporting people I shouldn't. You stated in the first topic that you ban people immediately if they are hoaxing the forums but then later you say that they don't need to provide proof. So for example, what about the people that claim they have psychic powers? Or those that claim they have implants, they should be able to prove that somehow. It just seems that some of these people are making some outrageous claims for attention and provide no evidence to support their claim and from what you've said I'm not sure if I am supposed to report them or ignore them. I don't enter the threads intentionally to make myself frustrated, I just expect them to have some kind of proof if they're going to make these claims.

Originally posted by MrAndy
It just seems that some of these people are making some outrageous claims for attention and provide no evidence to support their claim and from what you've said I'm not sure if I am supposed to report them or ignore them.

See above. I think it's possibel to be skeptical of these types of stories, without being rude.

Originally posted by Springer
If an experiencer replied he has no proof, STOP ASKING FOR IT and MOVE ON, NOBODY CARES THAT YOU THINK (S)HE'S A FRAUD, PEOPLE CAN MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS

This is NOT the "I am going to expose a FRAUD" Forum it's the ALIENS and UFO FORUM.

EVERY MEMBER has the privilege afforded them to SHARE THEIR STORY UNMOLESTED BY WORTHLESS DEMANDS FOR PROOF/EVIDENCE. AND CERTAINLY WITHOUT BEING DERIDED FOR NOT HAVING IT. If SOMEONE SAYS THEY HAVE NO PROOF THAT ENDS IT.

Wow! I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. In effect what you're doing is denying open inquiry and making yourself the sole arbiter of truth. That’s a dictatorship.

I would like to vote Springer for the Way Below Top Secret award but of course I can't or else...

If I didn't know better I would swear ATS is sponsoring disinformation in order to create controversy in an effort to increase profits.

If you're as troubled by this as I the only option we have is to vote with our feet...

Originally posted by Saviour Of The Real
Wow! I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. In effect what you're doing is denying open inquiry and making yourself the sole arbiter of truth. That’s a dictatorship.

Please read my post above.

The issue is not related to clamping down on contrary debate in any way shape or form.

We've noticed a disheartening decrease in tact and decorum in many threads within the Aliens & UFO's forum and need to point out that it is possible to disbelieve someone's story and still do so without harsh criticism.

But that still doesn't answer my question. Do I report these people for possibly hoaxing the community or what?

Originally posted by MrAndy
But that still doesn't answer my question. Do I report these people for possibly hoaxing the community or what?

Without hesitation.

Originally posted by Saviour Of The Real

If you're as troubled by this as I the only option we have is to vote with our feet...

What part of "personal story" do you not get? It's just sad that some are incapable of intillectual honesty, horridly bitter because they don't get the attention or "fame" they think deserve.

Seeing as how you are a returning banned member ("accessdenied") who is only interested in stirring up drama anyway possible let me give your "feet" a little head start, you are banned once again.

The next step will be an IP ban if you try to re-register (again) which will prevent you from being able to read the site at all.

I really have to wonder why it is that people who hate us so just can't stay away?

Springer...


[edit on 1-14-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by Saviour Of The Real

Originally posted by Springer
If an experiencer replied he has no proof, STOP ASKING FOR IT and MOVE ON, NOBODY CARES THAT YOU THINK (S)HE'S A FRAUD, PEOPLE CAN MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS

This is NOT the "I am going to expose a FRAUD" Forum it's the ALIENS and UFO FORUM.

EVERY MEMBER has the privilege afforded them to SHARE THEIR STORY UNMOLESTED BY WORTHLESS DEMANDS FOR PROOF/EVIDENCE. AND CERTAINLY WITHOUT BEING DERIDED FOR NOT HAVING IT. If SOMEONE SAYS THEY HAVE NO PROOF THAT ENDS IT.

Wow! I honestly can't believe what I'm reading. In effect what you're doing is denying open inquiry and making yourself the sole arbiter of truth. That’s a dictatorship.

I would like to vote Springer for the Way Below Top Secret award but of course I can't or else...

If I didn't know better I would swear ATS is sponsoring disinformation in order to create controversy in an effort to increase profits.

If you're as troubled by this as I the only option we have is to vote with our feet...

Hey dude I thought I was the arbiter of truth? lol jk. Or wait you're banned so maybe you can't read this...

This is directed towards mainly springer and skeptic, but any ATS staff:

I'd like to know two things that I haven't been able to fully address by reading ATS how-to threads.

First, at what point do you complain? Being a skeptic is great, that shows me right off the bat the person i'm talking to isn't a pushover or lost, but at what point is it harrassment? Attacking religon? Attacking integrity? Attacking to the point of suppression?

This can all be done too easily without speaking a single curseword.

My strategy has been hit hard and don't stop when dealing with such characters, but there has to be a better solution. When dealing with skeptics, usually the story isn't enough- you need proof. This is understandable. My question is, under the ATS system, how do you "go to war" to say, with Anti-Social posters?

Thoughts?

[edit on 15-1-2007 by jaguarmike]

Originally posted by jaguarmike
...at what point is it harrassment?

Simple to answer, really.

2 scenarios;

1) a member posts something totally 'off-the-wall', to which you reply "Wow, that's an insane idea based on a complete lack of understanding of the topic".

No warn, all is copacetic

2) in reply to the same 'off-the-wall' comment, you reply "Wow, you're insane to think that because you're really ignorant...and you spell horribly too.

Instant warn.

Members can be as passionate about their disdain as they like, as long as they DO NOT attack someone personally. That's one form of harrasment.

speeling edit

[edit on 15/1/07 by masqua]

I've noticed how "OnTheDeck" supposedly posted last on this thread, yet I can't read it from multiple IP's.

Is this a staff-only hidden response or a glich?

By Jaguarmike
My question is, under the ATS system, how do you "go to war" to say, with Anti-Social posters?

Why would you want to "go to war" with any poster?
its only a difference of opinions, unless T&C are being broken.

This is more of a complaint post by you rather than a question, i think people should be able to counter wild claims with reasonable questions, within a thread, its what this place is for, isn't it?

By SkepticOverlord
I can be polite to 1,000 people posting improbable stories if it means I find 1 that is probable. Can you?

Definitely!
That's my view on it too....

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Denied]

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Denied]

What if a user has experienced something but the experience left him/her with NO physicial evidence? are they just advised not to post that story at all? or are the skeptics advised not to contribute to the thread?

I am slightly confused.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
What if a user has experienced something but the experience left him/her with NO physicial evidence? are they just advised not to post that story at all? or are the skeptics advised not to contribute to the thread?

I am slightly confused.

IF the skeptics are interested in DISCUSSING the story then of course they are welcome to do so, if all they want to do is hammer on the member for evidence or constantly interrogate them in a hateful manner then they need to MOVE ON.

People are allowed to DISCUSS these things on ATS, it's a DISCUSSION FORUM, NOT an interrogation forum or a fraud alert forum.

There is no way to prove or disprove most personal paranormal experiences, just like "spiritual experiences", the UFO phenom is comprised of near total unprovable situations, if we want to discuss it we MUST get past this hell bent demanding for evidence.

I'll say it again, anyone that is trying to convince, sell or cause an action based on a sighting, contact, or event needs to back their claim up as much as possible, NOTHING has changed in that regard.

We simply want the heat turned WAY DOWN on people expressing and sharing their personal experiences. If it becomes evident the "personal experience" is a known B.S. story the person sharing it will be banned. We had a member the other day who slipped up one too many times with his "story" (he was pretty obvious from the start though) and was banned because of it.

I hope this clears it up (again).

Springer...

look, use my example folks. in the ohare thread, we have an individual who, quite convincingly, claimed to be an actual witness. i bought in because he talked the lingo quite well. turns out there are some major flaws in his story, so i corrected my earlier endorsement, and pretty much left the thread....not because i'm not interested in the truth, but because i cant prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that this guy is fake. i'm fairly certain from the posts that he was setting us up for a fake pic of the object (and doing it very well), but i cant prove that. so rather than let the thread devolve into a flame war, i elected to reverse my stance and leave (and be much more careful about how quickly i endorse someone...once bitten twice shy).....i know for a fact that springer is watching that thread quite closely, so i didnt bother to u2u anyone about my suspicions.

kind of long-winded, i know....but basically my suggestion is try to give people as much leeway as possible. if you are absolutely sure that we have a hoaxer, find a mod and be done with it. no sense turning a thread into a flame war when we have mods who can take care of the BS behind the scenes, IMHO

this is a very honorable and just, post, and has my backing 100%, if we all can be "Open-minded" we just might learn something from others, those who choose to use this site as a way of "Having Fun" ridiculing others, that is shamefull, if there are those amoung us who think these things are humorous, I recommend they go play somewhere else, we are all here to learn and above all it is very important to "Respect" others and their views. So you are right on with this post.

[edit on 26-1-2007 by PHARAOH1133]

Wow. Very clear to me and as usual well ATS spoken. Thanks Springer & SkepticOverlord with defining rules and protecting the little guy/gal from extreme criticism of thought.

See members, it's this kind of sensitivity to people and their thoughts which, I feel, makes Above Top Secret the very best place to explore thoughts, experiences and evidence of things outside the realm of the usual sites.

Bring it on-home to ATS people !!

Dallas

With the recent increase in popularity of the Aliens & UFOs forum due to the recent radio interviews with ATS member John Lear and our very own admin Springer, I think now is an important time to remind everyone of the simply level of decorum that should be expected on the board.

Recently I have noticed more so than before that many posts in response to new topics, either far-fetched and whimsical or simply controversial, are met with one-line replies that serve no help in driving forward positive discussion.

Therefore, can I please ask that posters stick to this basic idea when replying:

1. - Post your opinion
2. - Post your supporting evidence/comments/rationalisation.

Thank you.

Simon Gray
Partner, Administrator,
AboveTopsecret.com

A simple golden rule to follow....

"Treat others as you would like to be treated"

I know there are plenty (and I'm one of them) who roll their eyes when seeing a post with "Galactic Federation", "my alien friend", etc. in them...but that isn't a reason for a lack of civility or courteousness....