Survey Result Shows The US To Be Biggest Global Peace Threat

Hmmm I wonder if a survey that showed the US in a good light would be headlined on this web site.

Showdown at the Bush Rodeo
US Becoming a Police State; and now

Survey Shows US to be Biggest Peace Threat

I heard a guy down the local pub say that he thought that all Americans were shape shifting lizards, why not headline that one.

Talk about your obvious liberal agenda

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
I heard a guy down the local pub say that he thought that all Americans were shape shifting lizards, why not headline that one.

Talk about your obvious liberal agenda

I'd be happy with a "Zarqawi Dead!" or "Rove not Indicted" or "Jefferson Removed From Committee" headline, but you'll never see them. One can only wonder why not...

Originally posted by jsobecky
I don't personally care whether he is on some "list" or not. Proof of the pudding is whether they would grab him if he showed his head. And I tend to believe that they would nab him first, and ask questions later.

Then, people like you could fight for his "rights".

Lol yes well If some guy were also trying to stop the government from making an illegal deal that would make them millions I would say they would nab him too, doesnt make him guilty of the crime.

Come on jsobecky "the proof is that they would grab him if he showed his head"? like back when we had him cornered in the mountians then went to iraq and let him get away. Personally I think we didnt ever grab him because then we would see he cant actually be connected to 9/11. We either will never catch him or he will mysteriously die in a bombing run and you will never see his body.

When I look at it though, the fact the FBI cant connect him is proof enough to me we went to afganistan on false pretenses and a true lie. We have evidence it was *cough cough* not*cough cough* osama bin laden behind 9/11....lets go invade afganistan. Sure afganistan may have had ties to iraq, and sure afganistan probably had ties to osama, but unless you can show me proof that would hold in court that osama is connected to 9/11 the whole war is set on a lie because they told us he was behind it and they had proof, when they didnt. THAT is a lie.

No no no no no! You've got this all wrong! LOL! I agree. I don't think Iraq or Iran or any other country is a threat to peace. The US, on the other hand, is trying to find WMDs and oil.

Grim, I can't say why the FBI has not put the 9/11 attacks in the poster of Osama, but the fact remains that he has claimed responsibility for it, and other countries which include Spain have found evidence that Al Qaeda cells, which ultimately are following Osama's commands, were involved in the 9/11 attacks in the United States, the 3/11 attacks in Spain, and other attempted attacks and attacks to other countries.

Those are the facts, and you are posting your opinion as to why 9/11 is not in the "most wanted list of Osama Bin Laden", you are not giving any evidence, you are just making a claim on the absence of any mention of the 9/11 attacks on a "most wanted poster" which does say Osama is also being sought for other attacks on U.S. soil....

Spanish judge indicts Osama bin Laden, 34 others for terrorism
MADRID, Spain (AP) — Spain's leading investigating judge issued the first known indictment against Osama bin Laden in the Sept. 11 attacks on Wednesday, accusing al-Qaeda of using the country as a base to plot the devastating strikes on New York and Washington.
Investigative magistrate Baltasar Garzon indicted 35 people for terrorist activities connected to bin Laden's al-Qaeda network. In a nearly 700-page document, Garzon wrote that Spain served "as a place or base for resting, preparation, indoctrinating, support and financing" of al-Qaeda.

www.usatoday.com...



[edit on 16-6-2006 by Muaddib]

It seems that Bush would have us beleive that oil is a WMD - he's finding it everywhere ! Go Bush Baby Go !!! Don't stop until you save us from all those non-believers who live in the dirt above those horrible weapons. Then you can build your own wells to extract the threat directly from the bowels of the earth and store it away in an American bunker somewhere until it naturally degrades into harmless sub-atomic particles. America a threat to peace???? Are you freaking nuts? GOOOOOODDDDD BBBLLLLLEEESSSSS AAAAMMMEEERRRIIICCCAAAA - God's earthly warrior, ordained to bring order of a new kind, a Godly kind, to the third rock from the sun.
Alleluia, Amen and have a nice day (because tomorrow may never come....)

humm...can any of you provide "evidence" to what you are claiming?.... Or is the above just another rant with nothing more than exagerated and twisted opinions?.... and of course next you are going to have other members who will agree and "vote for way above" just for a member posting nothing more than biased and exagerated claims, and then some will believe this proves something...


[edit on 16-6-2006 by Muaddib]

Of COURSE this can't be proven - which is why they're called Conspiracy THEORIES. That these theroies are unsubstantiable is a testament to the wit and cunning of the perpetrators and generators of the real or imagined crimes they're accused of. The best theory is the least believable - that's the way they want it. Like mainstream science, all other belief systems are considered irrelevant unless provable within the tennants and limitations of the established system of reality.
SHEESH ! (walking away shaking head...)
Who educates these kids anyway?

Originally posted by Muaddib
Grim, I can't say why the FBI has not put the 9/11 attacks in the poster of Osama, but the fact remains that he has claimed responsibility for it, and other countries which include Spain have found evidence that Al Qaeda cells, which ultimately are following Osama's commands, were involved in the 9/11 attacks in the United States, the 3/11 attacks in Spain, and other attempted attacks and attacks to other countries.

Ok thats great then, so lets see the legal proof thats going to back this up in a court and Im behind you 100% that the CIA or FBI should hunt down each and every one of them. "which ultimately are following osamas commands." to me that sounds like it will quickly die in court with "no direct connection". Look all I am doing is play devil advocate here. You say he did it, well great, but if we capture him hes going to get a trial hopefully. Now I want to know if we can legally prove it. If we cant then I really cant stand behind and conviction against him, until its court proven.

So In other words, provide the legal facts.

Those are the facts, and you are posting your opinion as to why 9/11 is not in the "most wanted list of Osama Bin Laden", you are not giving any evidence, you are just making a claim on the absence of any mention of the 9/11 attacks on a "most wanted poster" which does say Osama is also being sought for other attacks on U.S. soil....

Hmm started to dig really deep on this. I think ive got a bit of a conspiracy on my hands, be back to this thread later. Things arent adding up.

Oh, i see....so the "best conspiracy theories are those that can't be proven and only have wild claims to back them up"....

Wow.....and this is called rational thinking?..... ooookaayyyy......

BTW this is ATSNN... well, i guess it used to be the portal for news about conspiracies which could be proven...but it has changed so much around here that you could be right and claims and exagerated conspiracies "are the best ones around here now"....

[edit on 16-6-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by grimreaper797

Ok thats great then, so lets see the legal proof thats going to back this up in a court and Im behind you 100% that the CIA or FBI should hunt down each and every one of them.
.....................

.....that link which i gave is from documents and evidence presented in an European court of law..... and those accused were already indicted....

I think your confusion might be on some of the wording used... Let me help you a bit.

Definitions of indict on the Web:

accuse formally, as in: The Grand Jury has enough evidence to indict him.
www.business-words.com/dictionary/I.html

accuse formally of a crime
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

In the common law legal system, an indictment is a formal charge of having committed a serious criminal offense. In those jurisdictions which retain the concept of a felony, the serious crime offence would be a felony; those jurisdictions which have abolished the concept of a felony often substitute instead the concept of an indictable offence, i.e. an offence which requires an indictment. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indict

www.google.com...

Anyways...good luck with your research, I am going to have some fun with some friends and watch " Nachoooooooo libre"....

[edit on 16-6-2006 by Muaddib]

wow muaddib I merely wanted to present you with the best facts avalible and then I noticed that I couldnt find Rex Tomb in the FBI database so I want to make sure it was absolutely correct information.

www.rinf.com...

On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, (202) 324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” I asked, “How does that work?” Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.”

that was the bit I was looking at but Im having a hard time finding out who Rex Tomb actually is. He was mentioned in an unrelated news article about a totally different subject dealing with the FBI. I just wanted to make sure he was real before I posted it, damn muaddib cool it.

EDIT: sorry if I am not in the mood to call the FBI contact number at 11:10 at night. Id like to prove to you that Rex Tomb does truthfully exist because thats the only problem Im having with this report right now, which I will have to verify tomorrow.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by grimreaper797]

Ok you just gave me a link from a europian court, for a crime that occured in spain...now what bearing does that have with anything? Ok so he attacked spain, what does that have to do with connecting him to 9/11 which we based the afganistan invasion on?

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Ok well guess what, how does that legally hold? If the FBI says it cant connect osama to 9/11 then if we had caught him, we would have had to let him go.

Sorry for the delayed response--have been away playing golf all day.

What the FBI said was that they had no "hard evidence" connecting OBL to the events of 9/11. That's hardly the same thing as no evidence. Furthermore, OBL came out after the attack and gloated about it and said he did it (or rather caused it to be done). We would most definitely not have had to let him go.

unfortunately a simple claim when even osama himself cant prove it doesnt mean osama did it. get official proof that he was behind it that will hold up in a legal court and my whole opinion will change.

By that reasoning, Hitler was not guilty of exterminating Jews since he did not personally do it. The evidence the government had/has is more than sufficient to convict OBL in a court of law, besides, he has already confessed to the action.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
In all honesty, I doubt the taliban could even find him. We are there and couldnt get him, you expect a bunch of taliban to catch him?

Yep, sure do/did. OBL was intimately connected to the Taliban, he was funding some of what they did, he was in direct communications with them, etc.

Also I stand by my position that If we are behind attacking and invading the taliban for 9/11 then Iran can attack and invade us for the 1954 overthrow and guatemala too.

I can't attack your logic there because I agree with it. However, I do believe they must have known what would happen to themselves if they had tried.

Yes but hitler devised the Final Plan. I think that was the name of it. He was part of the meeting and arranged it allong with his partners. OBL we cant even show that he was behind it. We have a sketchy video tape of a confession that probably could even hold in court. To me thats no good.

I, like others, believe in innocent til proven guilty. Now by all means catch him and charge him with everything under the sun, but you better be ready to prove it all in court. Now yes osama is a murderer and criminal, but if he cannot be held accountable for 9/11 in a court system, then something is wrong.

If we held him for the sole connection to 9/11, (meaning not holding him for embassy charges) he would have to be let go. Now granted if we caught him, he would probably go away for the embassy bombings in 1998, I want to know if he would go away for 9/11. If not then I want to know whos responsible.

[edit on 17-6-2006 by grimreaper797]

Originally posted by Toadmund
Yeah, that really struck me as odd, that illegal Mexican immigrants can hold massive demonstrations on American soil, and Americans can't even motivate themselves to protest way more important issues on their own soil.
Perhaps Americans don't feel not American enough to care?

Yet, I'm no better, when is the last time I protested anything? I just sit here and whine.
Where's my cheese?

Yes but if you look at all the power the authorities bring out when Americans protest and the places they take them to after they are maced and cuffed..and then see them do little to nothing when illegal immigrants protest...They had hundreds of thousands of them already rounded up into several locations and could've started arresting and deporting them..instead they were allowed to protest...Americans protest and we are sprayed with hoses full of pepper spray and arrested if not beaten in the process....Oh well...they'll learn when the protesters turn on them some day

The Americans that will and can do something to save our country and get us back to what she was and always should be do nothing because we know that if we tried to right now we'd be crushed.

Only when we can stop fighting amonst ourselves about so an so being a rightwing nut or that guy doesn't know what he's talking about he's a Liberal weiner

When we see each other as what we are....Americans...then maybe we'll finally come together and do something.



As for the poll I have people all over the world I talk to on a regular basis and they do think less of America because of what our admin. is doing.I have a friend in the U.K. that even offered me a place to stay if I wanted to leave America.
My only reply was just because Lady Liberty has stumbled doesn't mean I walk away from her instead of helping her back to her feet.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
wow muaddib I merely wanted to present you with the best facts avalible and then I noticed that I couldnt find Rex Tomb in the FBI database so I want to make sure it was absolutely correct information.

www.rinf.com...
.........

First of all, I kind of doubt what is claimed in that site, because, as the site says...

This past weekend, a thought provoking e-mail circulated through Internet news groups, bringing attention to the FBI’s Most Wanted Terrorist web page for Usama Bin Laden

www.rinf.com...

What you are claiming is based "on an internet rumor", unless you have some real evidence to back what you are saying, I highly doubt that the claim has any truth at all.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Ok you just gave me a link from a europian court, for a crime that occured in spain...now what bearing does that have with anything? Ok so he attacked spain, what does that have to do with connecting him to 9/11 which we based the afganistan invasion on?

Can you read spanish?

BTW, if you read the link which I already gave, it does clearly state that the courts in Spain indicted Osama Bin Laden, among some other terrorists, for the planning of the 9/11 attacks.

The 9/11 attacks were planned by Al Qaeda terrorist cells from Spain.

[edit on 17-6-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
..............
They had hundreds of thousands of them already rounded up into several locations and could've started arresting and deporting them..instead they were allowed to protest...Americans protest and we are sprayed with hoses full of pepper spray and arrested if not beaten in the process....Oh well...they'll learn when the protesters turn on them some day
..............

The only reason people are pepper sprayed during protests is because a lot of "peaceful protesters" think that "peaceful" includes throwing rocks, bottles, destroying property, bringing down fences, and getting on the noses of police officers insulting them and being aggressive. A police officer is trained, if possible, to stop a person who appears to become aggresive before he/she resorts to violence. If the illegal immigrants were not "pepper sprayed, or groups of them were not arrested, is because they did not resort to violence and did not become aggresive to police officers. There might have been a few exceptions, but I am not certain if there were, or were no illegal immigrants arrested.

BTW, by you talking about "they'll learn when people turn on them", clearly shows the state of mind of many protestors. That will only make you, or anyone who "decides to teach anything to police officers" being jailed, or worse if that person/people want to compromise the security of police officers. (harm them)


[edit on 17-6-2006 by Muaddib]