Survey Result Shows The US To Be Biggest Global Peace Threat

Originally posted by jsobecky
sitting there and condemning the very people that make it possible
for you to blather on.

Oh jsobecky! Isn't that the truth? It always amazes me when
people get on the internet and say how bad and evil America is; and
yet they yak yak yak on the internet which is a technology and a freedom
that comes to them from America and those willing to stand up to the
terrorists who want to drag them back to the year 700 (or kill them).

If it ever cames time for them to 'convert or die' I wonder if they would
complain because their internet and free speech rights are taken away?
Think they'll blame America because we didn't stand up or give enough
to stop the radicals? Of course they would.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Yep. It says that 17,000 people aren't very well educated on
what is going on.

And what makes you so educated on the situation?

Polls mean nothing. They can be made to say anything that the pollster
wants them to say. And .. even if a majority of people on the planet
think a certain way, that doesn't mean that they are thinking correctly
either.

News flash. The majority of the people in the world think the exact way the poll suggests. Good lord, the majority of the people in the United States think the same way the poll suggests. Just because the dittoheads on Fox News say something does not mean its right. In fact, take the diametric view and that will usually be reality for the other 5.2 billion people on the planet.

Side note - the USA should withdraw ALL foreign aid, and that includes
our military defenses, from any and all countries that have a majority
who think this way. Let 'em fend for themselves in all matters.
Screw 'em.

Wow, I agree with you on something. I think the U.S. should indeed get their noses out of everyone's business and focus on what ails this country.

I'll google him up and read what he has to say. We Americans
are proud of our country because we have something to be proud of.
There isn't anything false about it. If others don't love their countries
as much ... then it's most likely because they don't have anything
to be as proud of.

Actually, Americans don't have a clue what they have to be proud of. They are repeating what has been drilled into them since they were old enough to walk, "we are the greatest". Unless you can intelligently verbalize what makes your country great that "patriotism" is nothing more than false bravo and hubris.

I spoke to a graduating class of university students not long ago and challenged them to explain their patriotism, to explain WHY they feel the way they do about where they live. Not a single one could explain why they were patriotic and the tenant that made them feel that way. Without that connection there is no true patriotism, there is only pride. And pride is deadly sin to be manipulated.

Yeah, I'll keep that in mind next time I pay my federal taxes knowing
that billions of our hard earned $$$ is going overseas to support those who
think that way. Billions that could be spent here on Americans in the
cities; in the Appalachias; in the schools; in care for the elderly; etc etc.

Wow, we agree again. Tax money should go, first and foremost, to the citizens that pay taxes. Services should be provided for ALL citizens who pay taxes. Unfortunately, that is not the way the system is set up. The money is funneled into the pockets of the rich and into corporate accounts. I would recommend you crack the books and do some reading about where money is spent in this country. It will surprise you to learn how much money goes towards certain expenditures and how little money goes where you think it does.

America is 'the neighborhood bully' my a$$. Middle Class America
is stuck paying for AIDS research in Africa and other giveaways.
Bullies? Fine. I guess we should mind our own business and stop
supporting the rest of the ungrateful planet. I'm all for it.
Again - screw 'em.

Yes we should. Or at leaset until we get our own house in order. Trying to tell the rest of the world how to do something when you are incapable of the same thing seems hypocritical. The best thing we can do is lead the world by example, as we used to do.

Originally posted by MacDonagh
So America withdrawing Aid, wouldn't make much of a difference.

If that's what you believe ...

Then fine. You wouldn't miss it. And I'm all for COMPLETE withdrawl.
No more free rides. No more free anything from MY tax money.
Sounds perfect. If I were in charge, I'd make it happen.
And since you don't think it's a big deal ... I'm sure you wouldn't mind.

There are better things for America to spend it's money on ...
AMERICA and AMERICANS!!

Oh, it's great claiming your going to pay this set amount for a country in need and never paying it. Harry Edwards, a spokesman for USAID, the U.S. government agency reponsible for distibuting aid said 'A lot of countries don't pay. The U.S isn't the only one.' After the interview, he claimed a bigger boy would hurt him and nipple cripple him. The way I see it, is if you say that your going to give this set amount of aid, you give that aid. Otherwise, don't give aid at all, unless your going too.

The U.S is one of the only superpowers in the world which openly states that agressive diplomacy is an alternative worth consideration on the tables of discussion, a variable which jitters other countries. We should be reminded that the destablization of Iraq has been due in part, largely, to U.S interventionism in the region therein and around, and not due to some serendipitous reaction by Arabs. These reasons alone should give the world enough strife to raise them out of silence and indifference and actively speak out against U.S policies home and abroad.

Luxifero

P.S - also, the UN is defunct people say? Hey, how many times have the U.S vetoed resolustions there....ummm, like a bajillion !

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by The Iconoclast
There was no link between 9/11 and al Qaeda,

That's flat out wrong. Sorry Iconoclast, but the overwhelming
evidence is that it definately was al Qaeda. You can choose
not to believe that of course. But 9/11 and alQaeda go together
like peanut butter and jelly in a sandwich.

I was refering to the link between Iraq and 9/11, and then the link between al Qaeda and Iraq. There was no link between Iraq and 9/11 and the only link between al Qaeda and Iraq was Iraq's diplomatic interest in Afghanistan (the same diplomatic interest that brought the Taliban to Texas while Bush was govenor). The was no link between al Qaeda and Hussein/Iraq. Hussein lead a secular society, which is diametrically opposed to the vision of al Qaeda. Hussein was on bin Laden's list of enemies. Good lord, Iraq imprisoned one of the '93 bombing suspects and offered him up to the CIA, but we refused the offer. al Qaeda had an axe to grind with Iraq, supporting them was not in the cards.

As for 9/11 and the al Qaeda link, there is more to that than meets the eye, but that is another discussion and a very complex issue. The evidence in that case has almost as many holes as the evidence that was supposed to convince the world that Iraq had WMDs. But let's not hijack this thread. There are others in another forum that are designed for that discussion.

QUESTION - Iconoclast - were you insulting jso or all veterans?
I enlisted and I don't have a 95 IQ. Mine was 145 at the time of
enlistment. And I wasn't moulded into a 'killing machine'. I'm a
well adjusted stay-at-home mom.

I was taking a well deserved run at jso. His inflamatory comments certainly do not lead to a pleasant debate. I just wanted to give him a little taste of his own medicine, being that I'm a "coward".

Not many hate America. There are those who hate what they
THINK America is. But not many hate what America really is.
Most think it's 'in style' to hate us or they are jealous or they
don't understand America. But frankly, not many hate what
America really is. They hate what they have been told America is.

And what tells these people what America is? Our foreign policy, that's what. I think you know the rest of spiel.

The terrorists hate us because we stand in the way of them
converting or killing the world. That's for sure.

Converting or killing the world? Huh??? Where did you come up with that idea???

Originally posted by jsobecky
You can't win a football game, or a war, by playing only defense. You fail to realize that.

True, but in football they dont kill eachother because its only a game. ANd in football the goal is to win not keep everyone happy. So are you saying the US should go on the offense and take the world so it can win like in a football game? pretty bad analogy if you ask me.

You dont need defense to win a war, you need it to prevent one.

I continue to find it amazing that as evil, contemptible, disgraceful, and dangerous as the United States is, as negative as the US is portrayed, people continue to flock here in ever increasing numbers.....from around the globe......many dying in their attempt to reach our borders.

Following is a short list of nationalities known by me to have immigrated into my little corner of the USA.....

Indian, Pakastani, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Bosnian, Peruvian, Mexican, German, English, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Egyptian, and various nations of Africa.

Why are these people so attracted to this despicable land???

What is it they yearn for?

More importantly, are/were they part of the aforementioned "poll"?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by The Iconoclast
There was no link between 9/11 and al Qaeda,

That's flat out wrong. Sorry Iconoclast, but the overwhelming
evidence is that it definately was al Qaeda. You can choose
not to believe that of course. But 9/11 and alQaeda go together
like peanut butter and jelly in a sandwich.

June 5, 2006 - FBI says, 'No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11'
valis.gnn.tv... I_says_No_hard_evidence_connecting_Bin_Laden_to_9_11

The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

I personally prefer PB and toast, with no jelly

Originally posted by Luxifero
The U.S is one of the only superpowers in the world which openly states that agressive diplomacy is an alternative worth consideration on the tables of discussion, a variable which jitters other countries. We should be reminded that the destablization of Iraq has been due in part, largely, to U.S interventionism in the region therein and around, and not due to some serendipitous reaction by Arabs.

serendipitous? was the US in afg. or Iraq prior to 9/11? Doesnt seem very serendipitous does it?

Unless, of course if you mean that when OBL got his feelings hurt because he didnt get to defend saudi arabia, or place his "mujahadeen" there when Iraq invaded kuwait because the saudis would rather have had US forces there and in a fit of rage he declares a private war against the US.

you all yell and scream about US actions yet no one blames the man that started this whole mess, or have you all been brainwashed enough times your convinced 9/11 was a "hoax"?

Bush would have never gotten the support he needed to invade and occupy two foreign nations if it wasnt for the man sitting in the cave playing soldier boy.

does no one remember bush in NYC saying "this was an act of war" ? It was, and the US has responded accordingly...

yet you read the newspapers today and in Thailand 50 some bombs went off set by muslim radicals who state openly they wish to kill "infidels".

but please dont forget that it is bush's fault

This is the perfect reason however to stir up anti-american hatred and jealousy that has been building for years.....






[edit on 15-6-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Originally posted by smokenmirrors
I continue to find it amazing that as evil, contemptible, disgraceful, and dangerous as the United States is, as negative as the US is portrayed, people continue to flock here in ever increasing numbers.....from around the globe......many dying in their attempt to reach our borders.

Following is a short list of nationalities known by me to have immigrated into my little corner of the USA.....

Indian, Pakastani, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Bosnian, Peruvian, Mexican, German, English, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Egyptian, and various nations of Africa.

Why are these people so attracted to this despicable land???

What is it they yearn for?

More importantly, are/were they part of the aforementioned "poll"?

ever talk to any of them, maybe ask why they came here? My responses from most that I have asked is either "Im going to school here then im moving back to china (or there other homelands such as india, pakistan, japan, etc.)" or "Im sending money back to my family because minimum wage is great"- they dont really care about this country or what it represents, they are just here for an education or the wages so that they can one day get back out wealthier.

some do stay and move here for a better way...I just haven't met any of them yet.

Originally posted by smokenmirrors
Why are these people so attracted to this despicable land???

What is it they yearn for?

They come here because of the "ideal" of being able to achieve a dream planted in their heads. That "ideal" was bourne in the past and is now a figment of Hollywood's imagination. It is increasingly difficult for immigrants to make it in America, as it is for middle to lower classes as well. Living the American dream is becoming increasingly more difficult because of the wealth gap.

Also, immigration and visa requests have dropped in the past few years. Thomas Friedman's "The World is Flat" explains the changing attitudes in the world. People used to come to America to improve their lot. That is changing as countries that have traditionally been big sources of immigrants are starting to become more open to the world market and better paying jobs are available in their home countries. Many of the jobs that these immigrants would get (manufacturing industries as an example) are no longer in America and have been offshored to the nations where the immigrants come from. As well, educational standards in these countries is starting to catch up to the U.S. schools, so the students are staying home and getting education there or in Europe. 9/11 changed a lot of things, and the immigrant issue was also one of them.

Don't get me wrong, the United States still projects a great identity for others to emulate. Its a great model to build from and improve upon. The reality is a little different from what it once was, but people still view the United States as it once was, not how it has changed. It will be interesting to see how these emeging economies out there improve the model as they implement it.

Originally posted by grimreaper797


ever talk to any of them, maybe ask why they came here? My responses from most that I have asked is either "Im going to school here then im moving back to china (or there other homelands such as india, pakistan, japan, etc.)" or "Im sending money back to my family because minimum wage is great"- they dont really care about this country or what it represents, they are just here for an education or the wages so that they can one day get back out wealthier.

some do stay and move here for a better way...I just haven't met any of them yet.

Indeed, I have spoken with them, some are business owners, some in the medical profession, and yes, some are here for education and/or to earn money to send to their families. Fact is, they keep coming, these immigrants, legally, illegally, crossing deserts, oceans, however they can get here........

Well now, let's see.
Who is it that is going around the world attacking people that have done nothing to them??? The USA.

Who is it that has a whacky notion that they have some 'God given right" to force their ideas about how everyone ELSE should live, on others, whether the others want it or not??? The USA.

And if the others do not wish to comply, who is it that insists upon pushing the ideas AT THE POINT OF A WEAPON??? The USA.

There was a time that I was proud to say I'm an American....but that time is long gone.

WE DO NOT OWN THE WORLD, regardless of what our very CORRUPT government would like you to believe.

Put the shoe on the other foot for a change...if another country came over here and tried to tell us how to run our business, and were willing to KILL US if we didn't wish to obey them, would we fight back? YOU BET!!! Why? Because no one else has the right to invade our sovereignty. And yet we go around the world doing that same thing to others.

Our country is in terrible shape right now...we have millions without jobs or health care, while a handful of the elite are hoarding it all for themselves. Our infrastructure is falling apart. We are now in such deep debt that our g-g-g-grandchildren will STILL be paying on it, thanks to a corrupt government that is lining their pockets at the expense of the rest of us.

What do the words 'working poor' mean to you. What part of the American dream addresses the notion that a person should work (often multiple, low paying crap jobs), and still be poor????? And I'm talking about people who have college degrees.

Wake the HECK UP!
It's time to put our noses back over here cause we're not doing so hot.

But this corrupt government has no intention of taking care of business at home,...they are to busy planning and spinning non-existent reasons for the next leg of their global conquest.

Look up PNAC!!! They are closely following that game plan.

We talk big talk about fighting world terrorists, but WE ARE THE ONES EXPORTING THE TERROR! We are the ones marching around attacking other countries.
.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan



Bush would have never gotten the support he needed to invade and occupy two foreign nations if it wasnt for the man sitting in the cave playing soldier boy.
[edit on 15-6-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Oh excuse me. Exactly what proof links Mr. Bin Laden to 9/11? The last I heard, the US administration escorted his family out of the country while every other plane on the continent was grounded. The Bush family has EXTREME financial ties with the Bin Laden family.

www.bushwatch.com...

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Do you really believe that they wouldn't have captured him already, if they truly believed he was responsible? Give your head a shake, man! He's a patsy! A scapegoat, a figurehead for an entire nation to cast blame at. He hasn't been caught because the US administration needs a constant enemy. If Bin Laden is caught who's going to be the next public enemy #1?
And does nobody in America listen to what he says about American foreign policy? Or do you just discount his words as hysterical claims of a madman? There are actually some grains of wisdom behind the rants. Also behind the rants, remember there are familial ties between the Bush's and Bin Laden's.

In regards to people feeling the U.S. is a bigger security threat than a nuclear Iran, the poll was gratuitous and unnecessary. Why?

One of my favorite people, Larry C. Johnson, a former CIA officer, stated very recently in his blog that while he doesn't like a nuclear Iran, he would be much more content with living in a world with a nuclear Iran as opposed to the world that would result from going to war with Iran over nuclear power.

That spoke volumes to me, more than any poll would ever do.

Originally posted by The Iconoclast

Come on hero, its a volunteer service! If you believe the drivel you post, grab a weapon son, and take a post! YOUR president needs you to further his agenda of cashing in on the "war economy".

They teach you that at bootcamp when they were playing with your 95 IQ and moulding you into a "killing machine"? And you wonder why people hate America? It's people like YOU with attitudes like YOURS.

You go ahead and "understand their position". Just watch your back as you walk away.

Why would I need to watch my back? The only reason I have to watch my back is because of people like you who some how have taken it upon themselves to decide who is good and who is evil, who is right and who is wrong. You don't know anything about their plight (you actually don't know much about anything after reading your post history) but you feel free to be the judge, jury and executioner. Who gave you that right?

It's that attitude that keeps the hatred toward us in America building and keeps others with attitudes like yours in the business of killing.

Hey, where are the mods? We're supposed to just accept these personal attacks?

I doubt you'll take any action. Meh.

Anyone want to bet that they'll let this slide?

I just want to say while reading this Ive seen some conservative members saying this like "talking poorly about the people who make it possible for you to do such a thing" I have news for you. WE make it possible for us to do such a thing.

Look if we were being invaded and the army was helping us out with that then you could say they are making it possible to hold onto our freedoms. The soldiers are over in another country, and they arent defending our freedoms. No one is attacking our freedoms but our own government. Now listen up because I want to make sure you guys understand this, I dont hate the soldiers, they are just doing what they are told. I have the highest respect for their will to fight for us. and I dont hold it against them for whats happening. That in NO way means they are fighting for freedom.

You dont like what Im saying, well thats not going to change anything, Im sick of people trying to make us look like the bad guys because we dont agree with invading another country PREEMPTIVELY in the name of protecting the freedoms that we the people could protect if it were truely in danger.

The terrorists arent attacking my freedoms, they are reminding me of the risk I take by wanting to live free, which is something I am proud of. I am proud to risk my life against terrorist to live free. So yea, my freedoms arent being attacked, they are being reminded.

Originally posted by The Iconoclast

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Yep. It says that 17,000 people aren't very well educated on
what is going on.

And what makes you so educated on the situation?

Polls mean nothing. They can be made to say anything that the pollster
wants them to say. And .. even if a majority of people on the planet
think a certain way, that doesn't mean that they are thinking correctly
either.

News flash. The majority of the people in the world think the exact way the poll suggests. Good lord, the majority of the people in the United States think the same way the poll suggests.

Maybe by your "Good Lord", but definitely not by the majority of Americans.

Just because the dittoheads on Fox News say something does not mean its right. In fact, take the diametric view and that will usually be reality for the other 5.2 billion people on the planet.

Yeah, keep worrying about what some dirt farmer thinks of us.

Actually, Americans don't have a clue what they have to be proud of.

Wrong. You have nothing to be proud of. That's your life, not ours.

I spoke to a graduating class of university students not long ago and challenged them to explain their patriotism, to explain WHY they feel the way they do about where they live. Not a single one could explain why they were patriotic and the tenant that made them feel that way. Without that connection there is no true patriotism, there is only pride. And pride is deadly sin to be manipulated.

They were probably shaking their heads, saying who the hell is this guy? And which "tenant" is he talking about? The guy on the first floor?

You need to master your language. You probably meant tenet, not tenant. A graduating college class probably thought you were a buffoon.

I should look into those graduation-speech gigs - they must be easy money.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by jsobecky
sitting there and condemning the very people that make it possible
for you to blather on.

Oh jsobecky! Isn't that the truth? It always amazes me when
people get on the internet and say how bad and evil America is; and
yet they yak yak yak on the internet which is a technology and a freedom
that comes to them from America and those willing to stand up to the
terrorists who want to drag them back to the year 700 (or kill them).

If it ever cames time for them to 'convert or die' I wonder if they would
complain because their internet and free speech rights are taken away?
Think they'll blame America because we didn't stand up or give enough
to stop the radicals? Of course they would.

yea ok now how exactly do you think the radicals are going to take away our free speech rights? tell me I am very interested to know. Since they are such a threat I want to know how they are going to manage to take away my freedom of speech and the way of life in america. Other then some bombings, how are they going to even damage america. If you cant show me how this enemy is going to bring down the US then I dont see the point in going to another country to fight them.

Personally Ill get out my .22 when they start trying to invade and REALLY start trying to take away my freedom of speech. Right now, I dont see them as a threat to my country AT ALL except maybe some massive crime like a suicide bombing. That is no circumstance to invade any country though.