The Truth part 2

Do you ever feel lost?

Do you ever feel unhappy?

Do you ever feel as though you are sharing your body with the soul of a 75 million year old alien who was killed by being thrown into a volcano and blown up with nuclear weapons and now thinks it's God?

Then we're the church for you!

THE FIRST CHIRCH OF XENU!



All are welcome to the Sepressive Person's Club!

Now I am not one to normaly defend scientology, But can everyone please not attack the religious beliefs of other ATS members. I think its perfectly acceptable to question their tactics, methods, prices, rules, dianetics, origins, facts, leaders and L. Ron Hubbard, but dont make fun of him\her for their core beliefs. Scientology is a GOLD MINE, we dont need to......





[edit on 20-6-2006 by Tiloke]

Originally posted by The_Doctor

For instance would you consider Barry Bonds a 'fraud' because he took something that shrinks your balls to get his home runs and then lied about it?

Actually, no. Everything else about baseball has been upgraded and scientificaly designed to make the guy run faster or hit farther or throw faster. there is no "pure sport" anymore. Why cant we use science to make the athletes better faster? If Barry or Mark wanted to use roids, they did so knowing what the results would be on their balls. They decided to wreck their body for a world record. How is that different than a guy who plays through the pain of a broken ankle to win a big game? He knows hes only making it worse but he did what he needed to to win.....

[edit on 20-6-2006 by Tiloke]

"He knows hes only making it worse but he did what he needed to to win...."

He still cheated..... you do not need roids to make you into a machine you just have to work twice as hard. Not everyone in the league uses steroids just the big time hitters who want records and huge pay checks. Anyone who uses juice because they won't take the time to use practical methods of increasing your strength are frauds.

Barry could have done what he did without the shriveling of his balls with a lot of hard work. He and Mark do what they do because they like to take short cuts. Let's not forget these men are supposed to be role models not teaching kids how that using life threatening drugs such as roids to get ahead. That is not a message most parents want their kids to see.

Than what about the buys who are using bats that are designed to swing faster, the guys who are using balls that are designed to throw faster, the pitchers who put mud on the ball to get a better grip, the runners who buy 3000$ shoes so they can run faster, the grass that is genetically engineered to give the best traction and the HUNDREDS of other things that science has made better stronger and faster? Are all those people cheating too?


P.S. please use the "quote" function so evryone can see who you are quoting.

[edit on 21-6-2006 by Tiloke]

Originally posted by Tiloke
Than what about the buys who are using bats that are designed to swing faster, the guys who are using balls that are designed to throw faster, the pitchers who put mud on the ball to get a better grip, the runners who buy 3000$ shoes so they can run faster, the grass that is genetically engineered to give the best traction and the HUNDREDS of other things that science has made better stronger and faster? Are all those people cheating too?


P.S. please use the "quote" function so evryone can see who you are quoting.

[edit on 21-6-2006 by Tiloke]

Nope, those are ALLOWED. Steroids aren't.

ok, ok ill give up and say they were cheating, back on topic.

If the OP is a true scientologist he wont be back. His"church" would label him a SP simply for talking to us, even if he doesnt agree or is arguing with us.

Well that's fine, he was getting a bit... Ya know.

ACtually im gonna go back off topic one more time..... Any kid who has a sports star as a role model needs to go slap his parents for not doing their job. If anything parents need to tell their kids that people shouldnt act the way sports stars and most celebs do.



HIJACKED

[edit on 21-6-2006 by Tiloke]

Have Aliens picked up Baseball yet? Wouldn't they if they wanted to "fit in" better

Well okay lousy attempt at making it on topic

Originally posted by zorgon
Have Aliens picked up Baseball yet? Wouldn't they if they wanted to "fit in" better

Well okay lousy attempt at making it on topic

hahhaaha- actually probably. Everything here on Earth was shown to us on Jupitor through pictures. EVERYTHING. Other planets like ours have similar styles, devices, and inventions. It's all from being programmed.

I would not go to a church of Scientology and I follow the tech in the freezone. Many keep the tech pure in the freezone but not all.

The church alters the tech and is possibly doing it's own implanting. Read the past letters to the ST. Petersburg times on an independent who trained with Ron telling about this fact.

Ron's bio is not as it is said either. It is better to look clearly at truth than hide behind PR of the church. It does lead to brainwashing to a degree.

Barb

Originally posted by jaguarmike
The best evidence I can give you, would be to kill yourself. You'll have a while when you see a white light of you getting speedily transfered to Jupitor, and then you get to chill with all the other Thetans there that are wacked out of their minds...

wait don't do that. Go to the church of scientology, ask to listen to the between lives implants tape. Ask questions, ask them for proof, don't ask me, I can't give it to you.

OT's do get cancer and I knew one that died. They can get cancer more than others possibly due to the altered upper level tech.

Barb

Originally posted by jaguarmike

Originally posted by Enrikez

Originally posted by jensouth31

Originally posted by Enrikez
I've asked my first question already. It is just a couple posts up, about the financial obligations of scientologists. You see, I don't want to hear all of his great ideas and stories until I know if I can afford the services.

Then I'd just feel left out.

Yep I see it..... carry on

Thank you.


Next, I'm going to want to know about the powers of an operating thetan. And if Mike knows of any of them getting sick or getting cancer or anything like that. My Grandmother died of cancer, but she wasn't a scientologist. Also, if anyone he knows have left the church and why they did.

See I'm confused.

I would also like to know about scientologists ideals and ethics. Are scientologists supposed to be honest and straightforward? Mike, do you know any scientologists who won't pay back loans or have trouble paying their rent?

I would appreciate an answer to these and other questions I have.

People who leave the church have either committed overts on the church/reasons I don't know yet IE I haven't studied the tech. enough/Suppressive people/1.1 covert hostiles

OT's don't get cancer... I'm sorry to hear about your Grandmother, mine went that way too.

Scientology is about absolute ethics and ideals, no group comes close to having the highest ethical standards of Scientology.

*The Suppressive rant on this thread coming from naysayers is rediculous but there is no way to silence you all. Your condition puts me in a sort of empathy... I kinda feel bad for you. You don't know what you don't know, and you never will. Quoting anything from suppressive websites is so funny to me, those people are SP's, and the worst possible evidence ever. There is a reason people leave the church. For every depressed upset/failure person you throw at me thats left the church, i'll throw at you 10 that are happier than they ever thought possible, totally in control of their life, doing what they want, getting what they want, and having certainty on life. Booya!

[edit on 13-6-2006 by jaguarmike]

Most people do not know this fact.

Barb

Originally posted by Duzey

Originally posted by jaguarmike
*Naysayers, I have already explained why Scientology is not free, your questions despite my answers show that the question you ask is not really why you disagree with Scientology.

It does not cost you a dime to use the Tech. It can be found quite readily on the internet and through the Freezone groups. Every level, including OT8, can be found outside the confines of the church.

Telling people that the Tech can only be used in the church is untrue. Telling falsehoods is unethical, and that's a big no-no in the church, is it not?

I am sorry this is church brainwash. It is actually the oppoiste as they altred the 2D definition and the definition of the free needle.

The church is altering the tech. If you do not believe it go buy the orginial books and compare them and do not buy the church PR those books are not orginal.

Look on the web for altered tech and the church and you will find so much it is not funny.

You will even find out about the take over of the church and running PR to hide it.

Barb

Originally posted by jaguarmike

Originally posted by Duzey
It is not true that people have to pay to learn the tech. They only have to pay if they practice within the church.

The tech is available to anyone who wants it, free of charge. And more importantly, free of the church.

I don't have time for your Freezone nonsense talking nonsense about RTC. Those people don't have the system set up as Scientology does, and case-gain is not guaranteed through that seperate non-RTC group.

Yes, you can get the information FREE through Freezone. The case-gain you can expect will be nowehre near what you will achieve at the church. Do not go through Freezone you'll regret it later when more work is required on your part to correct mishaps in the past, guaranteed.

[edit on 14-6-2006 by jaguarmike]

The church does segregate. If you become a PR problem you are tossed instead of being helped.

You can't cry in public and they let their auditors have no confront to handle problems.

I would not get auditing in the church again if someone paid me.

Barb

Originally posted by jaguarmike

Originally posted by one_small_step

JagMike: My goal is to get more people who are starving for the truth and ufo knowledge into a group that will give them all the asnwers they want and crave- that is the extent of what I care about on this forum. I went into deeper detail in my other posts, but this one is more direct.

Can this be achieved without handing over a dime?

Please U2U Me with your plan - I will be interested if the goal is pure and beneficial to the wider community and more importantly can save our brothers and sisters who are not as fortunate as us.....

From what I percieve Scientology is just another tool of segregation. It promotes the have's & have nots' and global unity is not on the agenda.


So personally, L Ron and all his clones can go .... themselves.

One World - One Race.

Can you find out some information without handing over a dime? Of course- but trust me, you will pay money once you realize what you can learn and do for your own spirit, mind, and body. Scientology is most certainly not a tool of segregation, as a matter of fact it is the opposite. Go to your local church, watch a video, read free stuff, talk to anyone, and make your own conclusions.

Again, I know this is a hard concept to swallow- I have said a lot of stuff on here that I am realizing only one person was able to confront and deal with. Just because you have an open mind doesn't mean you can accept truth.



[edit on 15-6-2006 by jaguarmike]

They do not feed them, cloth them or give them free tech. Such is called freeloaders in the church.

Some who in the church do care and will help as a human being but mangement is against doing so.

You do not know your own church very well. I was on in from my teens to almost 40 and I have seen a lot and yes I was tossed from it because I got upset.

I also happened to get mad and yell about out tech. Then I wanted kill myself because I did not know of the freezone and my future to my point of view was gone so why bother to go on.

I found good friends who stand for standard tech in the freezone as well as the altered tech and power take over of the church by SP's who hide it's decline by PR.

Barb

Originally posted by jaguarmike

Originally posted by one_small_step

.. Go to your local church, watch a video, read free stuff, talk to anyone, and make your own conclusions.

Again, I know this is a hard concept to swallow- I have said a lot of stuff on here that I am realizing only one person was able to confront and deal with. Just because you have an open mind doesn't mean you can accept truth.

[edit on 15-6-2006 by jaguarmike]

Ok, I'm going against my non feeding schedule.

With all this money talk, would scientology deny my sponsored child in Africa the truth because he has no money?!?!?!

YES - That is segregation.

Please feel free to offer some generic rhetoric response.

Black & White my friend. The only grey area is our brains.


Mike, I am not trying to attack you or your beliefs. I am just trying to offer another view point.

The 'truth' and the search for it is a personal one.

generic rhetoric resonse: That child can go work for Scientology and they will cloth, feed, and give him free tech.

Scientology is about making the able more able. If we only focused on world hunger issues right now and didn't tell people like all of you this, it would get pretty messy... remember, human's have invented Nukes.

Saying "your days are numbered" is not even a joke when you concider what history has taught us.

[edit on 15-6-2006 by jaguarmike]

Because that is what the church teaches him in their PR lessons. It is told them constantly.

They never know the bad and never told they can look on the net to the critics. If you do you are in big trouble in the church for doing so. So they are controlled in what they do, say and see.

The worst part of it is like this person they do not see it. I found one recently that was in the church and saw it and left. They saw the alter of the tech.


It is sad. I was part of it. I still stand for the teachings. One has to think for self and judge the teachings as well.

So I follow it and one has to be responsible for their own progress. That means look at not believe what mangement at a Church PR event tells one. I have seen the lies myself.

Jeremy Perkin's Mom Ellie was my first auditor. I worked with Jeremy on the Method one word clearning course not too long before I was tossed and a few years before he did his mom in. I did not know of his mental problem and I knew him since a kid. My mom use to babysit him. I know he still lived at home when he was almost 30.

I know he liked drums a lot as well. I sometimes think I wish I could go visist him to see what made him to that but it is not wise to do so so I don't.

I still follow the tech but I also follow what the doc says and I talk to a social worker t o recover from all of my past abuse. I developed PTSD after the church stuff for it was a threat to my future life.

So the church is not the end all and be all of the tech. International Freezone Assoication and others are working to restore the orginal tech as best as they can.

This person here is brainwash as I was. It takes a long time to start to think for self. I do now but it took a long time to shake a lot of it off and I still have some.

So forgive this person for he will not listen to anyone as I would not have at one time myself. But one thing I am proud of I fought the out tech in the church and I was always willing to look at the other side of things. I am glad I did.

I have done better in the freezone with their help than any church as well as talking to the social worker who helps with what is called the basics.

Originally posted by Gemwolf

It saddens me to see this. A good man being dragged down.

You are fighting a loosing battle here. Clearly more harm than good is done with this thread? There are several posts revealing harmful information about Scientology, and your only retaliation is "nay-sayers" and lies. You have the opportunity to correct misconceptions, but you don't. A neutral person reading this thread will most likely turn against Scientology when finished.

Mike did you ever hear of gradients. You are too out gradient here.

YOu should look at both sides of the coin and think without the PR being spoon fed you.

I am not picking for I am for the tech but some things Ron wrote were opinions. You have to judge was an opinion and what is fact.

The tech is for certain being altered by RTC and did you hear of CST. Look up IRS and altered tech as well as L. Ron Hubbard Library. You will find an interesting site on that.

Also look up Based on the Works of. Ron's name is in the title of the books now as they feel into the public domain a long time back and they had to recopyright them so they no longer are by L. Ron Hubbard. A critic is trying to challenge this fact and prove the original works feel into the public domain. The owner of factnet is the one who is doing this and they let him win because of this fact his case he had.

Also did you know most of the Asterdam org walked out when they found about the altered tech and created a large freezone org. Most of them are now critics of the church. You just do not know and you probalby will not look either. I seldom tell church people any more about this for they fail at KSW.

Barb

Originally posted by jaguarmike

The questions that you have brought up were similar questions that I have asked in the past, but now have certainty on. LRH started clearing people, sort of, a while ago. As a result of that (Buddhism), we got Jesus, Mohommad, and some others I forgot... all because the first go at the technology was attempted and these amazing figure-heads meditated through Buddhism. Clears, as a result of LRH's thetan, have changed the globe. Unfortunately, it wasn't good enough. LRH finally got it right as L. Ron Hubbard and has finally achieved his goal for Earth. We have lived in this constant circle of affairs for too long now, it's time to get out of old habits and problems. We have lived countless lives be it human on this planet or whatever on another planet. Our Thetans record it all. We are natively Thetans. When non-OT people talk about traveling to other lands and galaxies through meditation they were lucky enough to have exteriorized... this means the Thetan (you) leaves the body momentarily. This is a rare occurance, not many people can do this on their own. However... imagine being your thetan, and being in control of yourself, your power, and everything in your vascinity, immortality, with unlimited powers and the choice of where to live next and what body to use?


Scientology is new, there is no question... but the difference, is that it is the first religion to offer freedom while you are alive. The questions you have brought up were good questions- however you will have no power to offer your input unless you yourself are in the organization... not to sound arrogant, but it is simply too powerful for just one person to change things unless you are involved.

No other religion can promise this freedom while being alive... the only one that comes second is Buddhism. However, the highest state you can reach in Buddhism is our equivalent to Clear. OT is as different as homo sapien is to homo novis (Clear). We are one group of loving creatures as you say, and one day we will all be back as we used to be eons and eons and eons ago without war, crime, and insanity- affinity, reality, and communication between all, and totally complete and happy... where the sky is no longer the limit, because the sky is not an end.

We have been trapped as beings for too long, and just now we have the ability to escape... while still being alive. Scientology is t


[edit on 21-6-2006 by TKheinsa]

This is a generality.

Not all that says things agaist the church are SP's.

In fact few really are. They are failed cases from altered tech. Ron said the only thing one can really be bad is no results and it is not from a no case gain case either with is the only guage for being and SP. The product of an SP is chaos in all parts of their lives and especally those connected to them. Not all who are critics or have something to say agains the church abuses are SP's

Please dump the robotic Golden Age of tech answers and be you and think for self. I can so easily see the programming of your thinking and to me it is very sad.

In fact my social worker told me to let the church go and I will. I am not letting the tech go but in time I will leave the robotic church behind and go free with understanding and not going out gradient with others.

I think you are like I once was. I grew up and I learned the truth and guess what it does set you free.

Originally posted by jaguarmike

Originally posted by L1ghtSeekeR
Its funny how some people have to make these big negative statements to get their point across. What they are really after is the approval that they get from others when they resort to negativity.

But I don't blame them for that. They can only do what their mind commands them to do. Wether it be positive or negative, their psychology simply works that way.

But I do hope you guys find the self-approval you need instead of trying to impress us with your negativity. It will make your life a lot easier and happier too when you realize that the real enemy isn't out here, its right there inside your head.

Absolute truth. It is hard to really become mad at SP's when they talk badly about positive groups because you know it is all in their head and their negative attitude is a fabrication of past events that they didn't handle.

[edit on 15-6-2006 by jaguarmike]