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Is Satan God, partly God, or not God?

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posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 01:36 PM
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God is not at all satan, nor is satan God. satan wants to be God(something that will never happen) yet it doesn't stop him from trying.




posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
God is not at all satan, nor is satan God.

Then where do the evil tendencies of satan come from, if not in some way from god?

Are you saying that the evil exists from entirely outside of god? As in, satan is sort of the 'god' of evil? And that his angels are sort of a parrallel 'evil' heavenly host?



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 02:56 PM
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I believe that Satan in nothing more than a Fallen Angel. However, in the begining he was one of God's top angels.



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Then where do the evil tendencies of satan come from, if not in some way from god?

Are you saying that the evil exists from entirely outside of god? As in, satan is sort of the 'god' of evil? And that his angels are sort of a parrallel 'evil' heavenly host?



Ezekiel 28:[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

That's pretty much what I'm saying.



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by dbrandt
God is not at all satan, nor is satan God.

Then where do the evil tendencies of satan come from, if not in some way from god?

Are you saying that the evil exists from entirely outside of god? As in, satan is sort of the 'god' of evil? And that his angels are sort of a parrallel 'evil' heavenly host?


No. Satan, whose original name was Lucifer, was an Arcangel of God and as all angels, created by God as servants and messangers . The Bible tells us that millenia ago Lucifer rebelled against God and His holy angels and was cast down from heaven with one third of the heavenly host; those other fallen angels became Satan's demonic host. Lucifer's failing and ultimate crime was pride and disobedience. Lucifer planned to overthrow God's reign and take over His throne.

Also, in answer to an earlier post, Satan does not possess omnicience, omnipotence or any other of God's attributes. He does posses the ability to appear as an "angel of light" and thereby decieve many by pretending to be something that he is not.

Hope this helps,

Peace,
LS



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 08:03 PM
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Lucifer


...Lucifer begins in the Absolute. He (It) begins in the Omeyocan, where there exists only the YOALLI-EHECATL (Darkness and Wind).

When Lucifer (the light that comes from fire or INRI) descends, he (Lucifer, Quetzalcoatl, Xolotl etc) illuminates the manifested universe and creates every world, dimension, sephirah, realm etc.

He takes his seat at the right hand of God (Chockmah). Then, out of compassion and sacrifice sends forth his light to continue his creative work.

He establishes every corner of creation. He is Light and Sound. He descends into matter. When he descends into matter, he activates movement within the dead, uncreated matter. Thus, life can flourish within the worlds of four elements (giving every Being, or particular individual aspects of this Light a chance to realize Itself). Inside the living terrestrial beings of one, two and three brains, Lucifer dwells inside as their fire (sexual creative energy).

Inside of matter, Lucifer becomes a shadow (the Light Shineth In Darkness...). Inside the minds of Humanoids, the light becomes trapped within shells (Klippoth, egos etc.) and thus transforms into Satan, the enemy of the Light.

Lucifer then recognizes this. Lucifer gives the oppertunity for this, because Lucifer is Light and Fire. Lucifer gives the soul the ability to recognize oneself in the darkness and even become liberated from it. Thus, with Lucifer, Satan was created. With Lucifer, Satan can be destroyed. With Lucifer we can become lost in the abyss. With Lucifer we can reach the highest heights of creation.

We should not be afraid of Lucifer. His potency is inside of our sexual glands but his essence is in everything created.


Do you understand this?






[edit on 19-6-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

Lucifer


...Lucifer begins in the Absolute. He (It) begins in the Omeyocan, where there exists only the YOALLI-EHECATL (Darkness and Wind)...

Do you understand this?


Not really. Care to share your source material?

Peace,

LS





[edit on 19-6-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Jun, 19 2006 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
Ezekiel 28

But that's addressed to the King of Tyre. It seems to be saying 'you were the best, but now you're scum', the other allusions include 'you' (re: king of tyre) being in the garden of eden and having precious stones on him, and being the very model of perfection and that you have 'great mercantile skill" etc. Its not satan.

But, if I understand correctly, you are saying that Satan, created by god as an angel, has become an utter corruption.

How? How has something which is an emanation of god himself contain evil? It makes sense I suppose to say that man was in the garden, disobeyed on eating of the tree, and thus introduced evil into the universe, but satan?


lightseeker
No. Satan, whose original name was Lucifer,

There is actually little support that Satan was called lucifer. The 'morning star' in the bible is used for two people, the king of babylon, and jesus.


he Bible tells us that millenia ago Lucifer rebelled against God

Where?

Lucifer planned to overthrow God's reign and take over His throne

Where does it say this in the bible? Old or New Testament?


Satan does not possess omnicience, omnipotence or any other of God's attributes.

He was able to take jesus up to a magical mountain that let him see every kingdom on the planet. And jesus didn't say 'tempting, but you can't do it', rather, he rejects him because he is holy, not because the offer is empty.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 07:27 AM
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It is an interesting thing that according to Christianity, God gave us free will, because it would not be "right" to be just brainless servants. However, the only way we can be "right" is by discarding our free will, and becoming brainless servants "willingly".



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Lucifer planned to overthrow God's reign and take over His throne



Isaiah 14:[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
[15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by babloyi
It is an interesting thing that according to Christianity, God gave us free will, because it would not be "right" to be just brainless servants. However, the only way we can be "right" is by discarding our free will, and becoming brainless servants "willingly".


Adam and Eve faced a choice. With their free will they could have faith in/believe/trust/accept/choose what God has said, or not.

Now we are faced with the same choice with our fre will. Believe/trust/have faith in/choose/accept what God says about salvation. It's not about being brainless, it's about what we choose to accept as the truth. No one can make anyone else choose Jesus Christ, and you can't choose for anybody.

If you feel like not believeing in Christ for salvation, then God isn't going to make you. But just like Adam and Eve had consequences from their choice we also do today.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Nygdan
Lucifer planned to overthrow God's reign and take over His throne

Isaiah 14:[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


dbrandt, I've said it before and I'll say it again...it is called a 'concordance'.

I know you can use one, I've seen you do it before....

But I'll spare you the effort once again:


How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Strong's #H1966) , son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
(Isaiah 14:12 KJV)


What does Strong's say about #H1966?


H1966
הילל
hêylêl
hay-lale'
From H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star


There are no other verses where you will find #H1966, but #H1984 is easily found:


The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house.(Genesis 12:15 KJV)

And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard. (1 Samuel 21:13 KJV)

But in all Israel there was none to be so much praised as Absalom for his beauty: from the sole of his foot even to the crown of his head there was no blemish in him. (2 Samuel 14:25 KJV)

Strong's:
H1984
הלל
hâlal
haw-lal'
A primitive root; to be clear (originally of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show; to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively to celebrate; also to stultify: - (make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.


Does that give you any better of an understanding about who Lucifer really is?

Because until you see Lucifer clearly, you will not see God at all....



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
He takes his seat at the right hand of God (Chockmah). Then, out of compassion and sacrifice sends forth his light to continue his creative work.

He establishes every corner of creation. He is Light and Sound.

thus transforms into Satan, the enemy of the Light.



And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
(2 Corinthians 11:14 KJV)

But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Matthew 20:26-28 KJV)

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
(Luke 10:18 KJV)

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(Matthew 24:27 KJV)



Lucifer gives the soul the ability to recognize oneself in the darkness and even become liberated from it.

And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make ye free...


Do you understand this?

I do, yes. The world? No, not yet. Soon, though, very soon.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Does that give you any better of an understanding about who Lucifer really is?

Because until you see Lucifer clearly, you will not see God at all....



Lucifer is satan, son of the morning.

Jesus is the bright and morning star.

There is a difference there. One that satan wants blurred, so that his true nature is not known, and so he can accomplish this:

1 peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Or this:

2 Corinthians 11:[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Watch out for deception! The devil is this: (John 8:44) He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 05:57 PM
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To all who responded or care to learn...

My last post was to show the difference between Christus-Lucifer(the creative Light and Fire, or the Morning Star) and Satan-Lucifer(the ego, or Light-Consciousness trapped within the egos).

Christus-Lucifer is The Light, the Ain Soph Aur, the Cosmic Christ who Initiates the first Light at the beginning of the Great Cosmic Day(hence, the Morning Star).

"He" is the "Son of God", or the first manifestation from the dark Absolute Abstract Space.




lightseeker wrote
Not really. Care to share your source material?



I provided a link in the post you're referring to(about seven posts back), if you care to go back.

And the other terms are in reference to the Aztec Kabbalah or the Aztec Christic Mysteries, as all authentic traditions have the same Divine Root and all have teachings regarding The Absolute, Lucifer, Christ, and 'the Devil'.



Regards





[edit on 20-6-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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As long as we continue to fornicate, we'll never be able to assimilate the Light(Luci) and Fire(fer) needed to reunite with Christ.

No matter how much we 'believe', we can't reunite with Christ until the death of Satan is completed internally(which is assisted by the Perfect Matrimony, or Chaste Sex between Husband and Wife).

Many of the Churches don't want us to know this, and is why they tried to take the doctrine of reincarnation out of Christianity.

It would be absurd to think that we could enter Heaven with all of our defects.


Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. - Matthew 5:48


In the "The Da Vanci Code", Dan Brown gave some clues regarding this, but also left out quite a bit(either out of ignorance, or purposefully...)

It is said that Leonardo Da Vinci was a Gnostic Rosicrucian.




[edit on 20-6-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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In reference to what I just posted...^^^


H.P. Blavatsky and Eliphas Levi on the Creative Force(which is in Man's sexual glands, and permeates the whole Universe as well)



IS PLEROMA SATAN'S LAIR?

"Lucifer, the Astral Light . . . . is an intermediate force existing in all creation, it serves to create and to destroy, and the Fall of Adam was an erotic intoxication which has rendered his generation a slave to this fatal light . . . every sexual passion that overpowers our senses is a whirlwind of that light which seeks to drag us towards the abyss of death, Folly. Hallucinations, visions, ecstasies are all forms of a very dangerous excitation due to this interior phosphorus (?). Thus light, finally, is of the nature of fire, the intelligent use of which warms and vivifies, and the excess of which, on the contrary, dissolves and annihilates. Thus man is called upon to assume a sovereign empire over that (astral) light and conquer thereby his immortality, and is threatened at the same time with being intoxicated, absorbed, and eternally destroyed by it. This light, therefore, inasmuch as it is devouring, revengeful, and fatal, would thus really be hell-fire, the serpent of the legend; the tormented errors of which it is full, the tears and the gnashing of teeth of the abortive beings it devours, the phantom of life that escapes them, and seems to mock and insult their agony, all this would be the devil or Satan indeed." (Histoire de la Magie, p. 197).



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 06:48 PM
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Most scholars think that the concept of a cosmological duality began with Zoroaster
(this dude)



in Persia in around the 12th Century B.C.

He was one of the first to come up with the idea of personifying the qualities of "Truth," as championed by Ahura Mazda, and "Deception," backed by Ahriman, and imagining the two beings in a kind of Texas Cage Match to win the souls of us regular dopes on Earth. There were some other entities in the mix, but mostly it was a two-entity fight. These entities weren't exactly what you'd call "God" and "Satan," since Zoroaster didn't anthropomorphize the creator entity. His "God" didn't have a face, and couldn't be "bargained" with through the use of prayer.

People seem to like the notion of the cosmos being divided up into good and evil, though, even if basic sociology tells us that actions by themselves are never good or evil, but always require a context to determine that. Still, Satan is a good thing on which to blame your own failings -- "The Devil made me do it!" -- rather than take personal responsibility and face the consequences. People are like that.

Ahriman ===>



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by Enkidu
Still, Satan is a good thing on which to blame your own failings -- "The Devil made me do it!" -- rather than take personal responsibility and face the consequences. People are like that.



The devil can't make anyone do anything. He can only tempt. People sin by nature, habit and choice. That is the cycle that needs to be broken and that only comes about through the forgiveness of sin. This only comes about through faith in Jesus Christ.



posted on Jun, 20 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
People sin by nature, habit and choice. That is the cycle that needs to be broken and that only comes about through the forgiveness of sin.

By "nature" I'm assuming you're saying that there is something inherent in people that makes them sin. Now, why would a just and caring God build sinning into our nature, only to punish us (or forgive us) for it later? I understand that it has to do with free will. That it has to be our choice or it doesn't "count." But what difference would it make to an all-powerful God, anyway? What does God lack that he has to have our obedience and love for him be "sincere," like the Great Pumpkin? On the other hand if God is limitless, and can resolve every paradox, why wouldn't he just allow us free will while at the same time build in the love and freedom from sin that he seems to need?

Seems to me you've been fooled into believing in a false, weak God. One that is less than the universe. One that is needy and jealous and schizophrenic. Maybe you need to get your mind focused (or unfocused) on the bigger picture.




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