How Can There Not Be A God

There hasnt been a single shred of evidence that there is a god.

If there was one, he wouldnt let the world wide suffering happen all over the world.

Religion is just a man made device for control and brainwashing.

Originally posted by Flyer
There hasnt been a single shred of evidence that there is a god.

If there was one, he wouldnt let the world wide suffering happen all over the world.

Religion is just a man made device for control and brainwashing.

Yr right about religion but as for being right about god not existing based on yr statement - If there was one, he wouldnt let the world wide suffering happen all over the world.

Why not? maybe its because like i said we are all part of god and god works thru us, if u dont know him or even comprehend he exists, then u dont know yrself and its logical that u expect someone else to clean up the mess in the world, if it bothers u that much and god dont exist and he lets it happen then take it upon yrself to do something!

I guess that would be harder than believeing in god huh? lol


Man some peeps need apron strings to hang on to all there lives


SouLJa

Originally posted by Enkidu

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
I truly belive that the God that everyone is talking about is the God in the bible[...]

You know the Gnostic Christians believed that the God as represented in the Bible is actually an incredibly powerful physical entity of some kind (an "alien," if you will), that created the world--or at least mankind's intelligent perception of it--through some unknown means. But this thing was not the "real" God. This creature, known by different names, thinks it's God, though, and has a tendency to demand devotion and supplication and will kill big populations of humans if it doesn't get it. It's insane, and for a long time people were at its mercy. It seems to have gone away, though, and hasn't been back for a while, although people with a lot of imagination sometimes think they enounter it.

This false, psychotic God is the one people pray to and worship, because they don't know any better. It reveals itself as false because it has needs, which is something the real God would not.

According to these early Christians, the real God is beyond our comprehension and can't be understood by us or dealt with in any way. God is beyond our prayers, beyond caring, beyond creation and destruction, beyond a thousand dimensions in a thousand universes. Beyond everything.

I still want the reasons of why you think God does not exsist. You cannot see air but you can feel that too.

The false God as described in the Bible may have been some kind of alien or strange entity from another time or dimension, toying with us like an ant farm. The old myths are too vague and unclear to offer any good evidence of its true nature.

As for the "real" God of the Gnostics, if that "thing" (which is not really even a thing) doesn't exist in any way that we can understand, then it doesn't matter if it exists or not. Looking at it in a Zen way, the real God is ( * ). So what's the difference?



God, as the feeling you experience, is a combination of chemicals in your brain, combined with the lag or gap between the time something really happens and the time you experience it. It is the airy feeling you experience when you don't know something. Your God is "I don't know," which you attribute to the false God because that's what your Mommy and Daddy told you it was, because believe it not, they didn't know any better, either.

So I guess my answer is that there is no God because it doesn't matter if there's a God or not. And, no offense, but I think you probably aren't capable of understanding that.

[edit on 26-5-2006 by Enkidu]

Yr Signature doesnt suggest at all does it that yr opinions are biased by yr ego
signature
I knew you would eventually see things MY way!

Consider this

"One is taught in accordance to one's fitness to learn."

SouLJa

[edit on 26-5-2006 by SouLJa]

Originally posted by Zanzibar
Science. That's why I don't believe in a god, we've been to space, nothing there, we know what's in the middle of the Earth, no demons.

Also, if God is supposed to exist, why do bad things happen to his/her followers?


I don't believe because there is an infinite amount of evidence to say there isn't a God and only one book to say there is.

I'm sorry for bringing you back into the topic this late, but I'm gonnna have to pick that post apart....

First off, let me say that it has to be the most ignorant, close minded post that I have ever seen on ATS....

Really..."one book"......are you serious?

Have you not heard of ANY other religous texts besides the Bible?....lets see....we have Allah, Buddha, etc., etc., etc........not to mention the Dead Sea Scrolls, Egyptian Heiroglyphs.....on and on and on.....

Space......"nothing there"....hmmm...there's loads and loads of evidence of new formations growing and evolving......galaxies, solar systems, etc.......yeah, thats nothing....

"Why do bad things happen to his followers?".......thats a good point...bad things do happen to good people......it is a question that has been discussed alot in the philosophical debates throughout time.....maybe you can take some time to research why these things might happen instead of just brushing it off as an excuse not to believe in something and put up a wall around your personal opinion...

Now I have a similar question for you....If God or some sort of creator does not exist, then why has the all powerful science not been able to produce life without using already living cells?.....since there is an "infinite amount of evidence", please provide some......don't use Watson and Crick's expiriments with Amino acids either....because that is all they produced....sure, Amino acids make up living organisms, but the ones they were able to produce were NOT the type that makes up living things....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, my personal belief, as to respond to the original poster....

I believe that we all come from something....some force or being that created us...I do not believe that we just evolved from magical single cell beings after a catastrophic event such as the Big Bang, because life has NEVER been created in the labratory from anything other than already living cells,.....

SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NOTHING...unless there is an original something....there has to be a creator somewhere....be it a supernatural being, or a force of physics that we cannot comprehend....something had to put us here..the univers hasn't always been here....what was it? a void that cannot be explained rationally?

As far as religion, I'd say I'm somewhat Christian, because I do believe in Jesus being a living incarnation of the creator, but really, I know this is going to sound funny, but I consider myself more of a Jedi.....think about it.....there is some FORCE that surrounds us and binds us all together....we can manipulate this force by everyday decisions and actions, but really everyone's interactions and choices of how to use this force shapes the way the world works.....It is your inner being....you karma, your free will, everything that the basic fundamentals of religion encompass...love yourself and others, and treat this planet with respect, because there ARE forces at work that we cannot comprehend....

I don't go to church at all really, and I choose to gain my own knowledge based on all types of studies from science to physics to everyday human interactions.....But I have had experinences, which I have shared on this board in the past, that let me KNOW there is something out there that is looking out for humanity....Yes, I believe in evolution too, because things do evolve to an extent...but those things would not be there in the first place if it were not for something putting them there....

I don't believe in God for the simple fact that there is more evidence for UFOs than there is for the guy upstairs.

Besides, the idea of God is just a way primitive man could justify the existence of everything (nothing this amazing could happen naturally. It must have been created); a way for people to shift blame onto something else other than themselves (I'm doing the Lord's work by Crusading across Europe and raping/pillaging/eating heretics ((and they did eat some of them)) ); and a way for the capitalist system to be maintained by the wealthy (it is God's wish that you be born to serve us. To try and become richer and rise above your post would be to rebel against God)

Originally posted by Flyer
There hasnt been a single shred of evidence that there is a god.

If there was one, he wouldnt let the world wide suffering happen all over the world.

Religion is just a man made device for control and brainwashing.

This is what religion has done for knowledge of God. If you look at it from a Chistain P.O.V it would seem like why would God let people suffer.

We are not here for pleasure. We are not here to collect toys. We are here to learn. We have to live many lives and learn every experience man can have before we move onto a higher plain. We reincarnate, some must have the experience of the abused in one life the abuser in another. Richman and poorman, the person that lives to serve others, and the person that is in service to self.

I think some ar incapable because of the level of spiritual evolution they are at is not high enough to feel the higher power commune with them. They are on a material plain of existance and live for ego.

I choose to live in service to others and have had my spirit greatly rewarded, while my ego is being diminished everyday.

God is everywhere, you just have to look...

Originally posted by JackofBlades
I don't believe in God for the simple fact that there is more evidence for UFOs than there is for the guy upstairs.

Besides, the idea of God is just a way primitive man could justify the existence of everything (nothing this amazing could happen naturally. It must have been created); a way for people to shift blame onto something else other than themselves (I'm doing the Lord's work by Crusading across Europe and raping/pillaging/eating heretics ((and they did eat some of them)) ); and a way for the capitalist system to be maintained by the wealthy (it is God's wish that you be born to serve us. To try and become richer and rise above your post would be to rebel against God)

And theres no way that ufos are gods creation to lol

SouLJa

It's always gonna come down to this debate...

"Prove to me that God exists" vs. "Prove to me that God doesn't exist"


Neither side has basis, only speculation on philosophy...

I would rather put my faith in something other than this existance we call "living"...

We all have a soul....an inner conscience that lets us know right from wrong....ask yourself this....

Would you take $100 from a wallet you found, or return the wallet to it's original owner...If you are not mentally handicapped, you automatically say return the wallet....Why? Because something inside you tells you it's the "right" thing to do...

How do we know right from wrong? Or rather, how do we know good and evil? Well, one is the measuring stick of the other....they are interdependant....you can't measure good if there is no evil, therefore, it would not exist.....

Basically, evil is necessary to distinguish what is good...We must all learn to realize that this is not "Heaven" and that the battle between good and evil will always be present, until someone or something sees fit to remove us from this plane of reality.....

Originally posted by JSquared

Originally posted by Zanzibar
Science. That's why I don't believe in a god...

First off, let me say that it has to be the most ignorant, close minded post that I have ever seen on ATS....
...
SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NOTHING...unless there is an original something....there has to be a creator somewhere....be it a supernatural being, or a force of physics that we cannot comprehend....something had to put us here..the univers hasn't always been here....what was it? a void that cannot be explained rationally?

JSquared, I find it interesting that you tell Zanzibar that his post is ignorant and close-minded because he says he doesn't believe in God because of science. Then you proceed to say "SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NOTHING". That sounds like science, to me. That is science.

In fact, something coming from nothing would truly be a spiritual event, right?

It sounds like you base your belief of God on your belief in science, but for another member to base their disbelief of God on science is 'ignorant' and 'close-minded'? Look in the mirrio, bud.

Originally posted by JackofBlades
Ia way for people to shift blame onto something else other than themselves (I'm doing the Lord's work by Crusading across Europe and raping/pillaging/eating heretics ((and they did eat some of them)) ); and a way for the capitalist system to be maintained by the wealthy (it is God's wish that you be born to serve us. To try and become richer and rise above your post would be to rebel against God)

This is because you have not looked to the ancient writings and of other religions than the big three. It wasnt like this until the age of Pisces, or Aries, Taurus etc. They did not push religion on others like the Christains did. There was not a crusade to kill the non-belivers. We are now entering Aquarius, the age of spirit. The age of Picses (the last 2 thousand years) was the age of materialism, and the age of seperating God from man. The age of picses is the exact reverse of this way of thought. This is why we have so much strife right now and probably will for quite sometime, it takes time for one age to die and another to take over. The age of the materialistic world is fighting hard, but it cannot win, just as winter fights spring but eventually has to give in and relent. So shall this shallow age of the material.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

JSquared, I find it interesting that you tell Zanzibar that his post is ignorant and close-minded because he says he doesn't believe in God because of science. Then you proceed to say "SOMETHING CANNOT COME FROM NOTHING". That sounds like science, to me. That is science.

In fact, something coming from nothing would truly be a spiritual event, right?

It sounds like you base your belief of God on your belief in science, but for another member to base their disbelief of God on science is 'ignorant' and 'close-minded'? Look in the mirrio, bud.

Actually, if you read the entire post, I said nothing of the sort. I just pointed out that he made broad statements, that when looked at in depth, were just plain farces. I challenge him to show me science that disproves God or a creator, and I guarantee that nobody, including yourself, can.

It may "sound" to you that I believe in God based on science, but don't put words into my mouth. I believe in God (or a supreme force in the universe) based on numerous theories that include science, yes. But, it is not the sole reason that I base my opinion, as it seems the poster that I referred to uses to base his disbelief.

The "ignorant" and "close-minded" comments were directed to point out that the broad assumptions he made, were not based on reality. In fact, the "one book" and "space" comments were rediculous....

So, before you assume that you are an all-knowing being yourself that thinks you know what people are implying, then I suggest you take your own advice and "look in the mirrio"....

Why did you even feel the need to call me out for dissecting his post?.....Let him defend his own point of view......Are you the Board Police?


:Edit....I know that came across kind of harsh, and I apologize, but this is a subject I have a great deal of interest in and might have gotten a little aggravated with your reply....Feel free to U2U me anytime if you would like to compare notes on this subject......don't be angry....hehe.....we must all get along...and I am sure you are a great person....

[edit on 26-5-2006 by JSquared]

[edit on 26-5-2006 by JSquared]

First of all, I personally think that using science as a weapon against God is just stupid. "God can't exist because evolution is against it, blah blah..." Well, science itself blows a hole to evolution theory in a hot second.

When the theory was developed, they didn't have a clue about DNA. The problem is, that DNA has an embedded system of error checking in it, which is 'run' when the DNA is building proteins and such. This is to prevent errors and mutation within the gene, and usually if there is an error, it is repaired or the development of that entity is halted, or it will not survive long after being conceived.

There is some space for the code for _adaptation_, but not for total mutation within a species. Adaptation allows difference within a species. In example horses and zebras are obviously related animals, but due to gene adaptation they have slightly different charasteristics. But still they have never differed from the basic design of animal belonging, in this case, to the family of Equidae - a horse-like animal. If this so-called evolution is taking place, same type of animals would have evolved into different species alltogether. This applies to almost every kind of animal.

A reptile could never be a fish, or any different kind of underwater creature or vice versa. How would they have evolved in a first place, moving from one habitat to another? Some would say; "Well dolphines are a link, because they need air to breathe..." Well, no. First of all, every airbreathing underwater animal such as dolphins and whales are mammals and are totally different from fishes, not counting flippers, food, etc, which are common because they live in a same kind of environment. Of course waters have countless number of animals that are nothing like fishes.

But these animals couldn't have evolved from land animals. Would they had swimmed first a bit and decided to evolve themself gills, and then moved to live underwater? Or they just loved swimming and plankton so much, that they evolved fins for swimming and the held their breath for a couple of billion years until they had lungs capable of living most of time submerged? Yeah, sure they did.

Just the basic rules withing DNA deny the impossibility of evolution, which also common sense does.

In the wake of the discovery of DNA, evolutionists came up with another gimmick to keep up with progress, and that is Phylogenetics. This way they try to find out the relation between species through DNA anlysis. And because monkeys and us have similar genetics, we MUST be related. Using that reasoning, were also related to tobacco plants. Similarities between genetics isn't a proof for evolution, it just shows were meant to live in this planet, all of us in our intended way.

So, I personally believe everything must have been like this always, and not have evolved this way. I believe in a common creator, because I can't think of another way things are the like they are. Arguments like religion vs. science are pointless. Science, in my view, isn't against religion, and religion isn't against science. Religion should be a tool and a part of logical thinking, and not an obstacle like some people have made it.

I don't wanna fight, this is just my opinion. Maybe this went a bit off topic, but I just wanted to say. Cheers.

"Mind id like a parachute; it works better when it is open."

very good points UnholyP...nice job!

The notion of God is perfectly non-falsifiable so God’s existence can never be proven they way science can prove acceleration due to gravity on earth is 9.8m/s2.

However, Jesus is another matter. There’s a fair bit of evidence to support the existence of Peter and the other disciples. Had Jesus not risen from the dead, these guys would have gone into hiding and would have never been heard from again. Instead they spent the rest of their lives spreading the Gospels and many met unpleasant ends as a result.

Originally posted by JSquared
I challenge him to show me science that disproves God or a creator, and I guarantee that nobody, including yourself, can.

Even if we could prove a negative, I have no need nor desire to prove it. The burden of proof lies with those who claim something exists. That would be you.

It may "sound" to you that I believe in God based on science, but don't put words into my mouth.

That's why I said "it sounds like". I didn't put words in your mouth.

This is in the Faith, Spirituality & Theology forum. Just exactly how much of what is discussed here is based on 'reality'? We're talking about beliefs.

Why did you even feel the need to call me out for dissecting his post?.....

Well, maybe for the same reason you felt the need to dissect his post. But more likely, it's what I said above. We're talking about spiritual beliefs. And I don't particularly like it when someone gets called ignorant and close-minded for sharing their beliefs. And I have a big mouth and strong opinions.

Let him defend his own point of view......

I'm not stopping him.

Are you the Board Police?

Yes, I am. Self-Appointed. See my Avatar. I am a Soldier of Grace. I sometimes speak out when it seems to me that someone is under an unwarranted attack. It's who I am. It's what I do.

You're free to say whatever you like. And so am I.

Edit: I'm not at all angry. No problem at all!

[edit on 26-5-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

hiya

Its only my opinion but i think it would serve alot of peeps well to study history a bit more in depth, particularly ancient civilisations and there calendars! form the atlanteans to the lumerians, sumerians, egyptians, greeks, romans so on so forth.

Also prophetic works of mother shipton, nostradamus, edgar cayce!

To many peeps with belief systems built on half truths manifested from being misinformed on history, religions and the theorys that are mostly assumptions based on the scientists needs to build his evolutionary theory.
Anyone would be naive to think that the scientific world tell us the truth of all there finds anyway!

Like einsteins theory of relativity, relative the key word lol

imo nikola teslas mind and understanding of the universe way surpassed that of einsteins and yet his genius remains redundant to most peoples minds.

Pity to live in a world where real genius is denied out of material greed! pffff
j pierpont morgan .!.

SouLJa

It is foolish to believe in something that can not be observed.

It is equally foolish to declare the nonexistance of something simply because it has not been observed.

Wisdom is found in the phrase, "I dont know."

I think God and science are similar - one can't be complete without the other. Science is what tells us the results of God's work. Like what Albet Einstein said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

One of the problems with the Judeo-Christian god concept is in its appraisal that the deity is all-powerful and all-knowing. There is no evidence of this.

Astronomers and scientists have found from their observations and equations that the Universe is not infinite as many believed, just extremely large. Which points to its Creator not having been omnipotent, just extremely powerful.

There is a huge difference between being infinitely powerful and extremely powerful.

Moreover, mathematical probability points to the Universe being manifested through design and not by accident.

God does not play dice with the Universe. -- Albert Einstein

So I conclude that yes, there once was a major God that orchestrated The Big Bang. But that God was not and is not the Judeo-Christian god at all, or any other god in traditional religions, and that God has yet to come here. If/when that happens, it would spell the end of traditional religions because no god icon in any traditional religion had or has the energy to create billions of galaxies, which translates into being able TO HEAL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AT ONCE

A God who can pull that off will end all the squabbling about who is The or least A true God (no contest ) and cause a great deal of panic from the collapse of centuries-old religious institutions - in favor of the new, more accurate and more progressive paradigm.

Power and spiritual evolution are all a matter of degree and simple logic dictates that a galaxy-creating (or even planet-creating) major God has yet to emerge on our world, as the miracles attributed to him/her would be far greater than anything ever historically documented.

Originally posted by SouLJa
Yr Signature doesnt suggest at all does it that yr opinions are biased by yr ego

All of our knowledge and actions, including yours, are at least filtered through ego.

Consider this:
"One is taught in accordance to one's fitness to learn."

Oh, like there isn't more than a touch of ego in that response!

"You're wrong, and I'm right, because you are less 'fit' to learn than me."

Oh, well...

Show me someone without an ego, and I'll show you a loser.
-- Donald Trump