Top 10 Chinese Naval units

Just a few of the better Chinese naval assets posted in an attempt to redress the general ignorant rubbishing of PLAN capabilities:

1. "2208 class" stealth fast attack craft. There can be no serious doubting that this really is stealthy and China is building a lot of them:


2. Type 052C “Lanzhou” class “Aegis” air-defence destroyer. A partially stealthy design equipped with 48 HQ-9 (the famous S-300) SAMs:


3. Type 092 “Xia” SSBN – anything that carries 16 ICBMs cannot be shrugged off:


4. “Kilo” class attack subs. Russian made and rightly respected:


5. “Sovremenny” class destroyers. Armed with the Moskit supersonic anti-ship missiles:


6. Type 052B “Guangzhou” class destroyers, good all-rounders:


7. Type 730 30mm CIWS:


8. YJ-62 Anti-ship cruise missile. 280km range:


9. Flanker. The Chinese naval air force operates Su-30 aircraft equipped with AA-12 Adder, AA-11 Archer and Moskit anti-ship missiles (among much more):


10. Just awesome:
img373.imageshack.us...


[edit on 21-5-2006 by planeman]

Good Pics

Certainly seems to be a formidable force. Am I right in saying that the Chinese navy is the second largest in the world? ( or is the U.K's bigger?)

And how are the chinese at projecting their power? Do they have aircraft carriers?

They certainly seem to be building the capabity of their navy very quickly... Look out Taiwan.

man who cares jeez they just copy everyone like tv shows lol why did they paint it camo isnt the ship gonna like be out in the vast ocean?that camo would make it real easy to find lol

(BTW i am currently living in china and there is only one word that can describe it "#hole" lol thank god iam going back to california this summer)

[edit on 22-5-2006 by dabomb]

man who cares jeez they just copy everyone like tv shows lol why did they paint it camo isnt the ship gonna like be out in the vast ocean?that camo would make it real easy to find lol

I would argue that most western goverments should care dabomb, as the chinese have incresed their military spending 10% every year since 2000.....without an apparent reason for it.....

have a quick read, the US is already starting to wet the bed....

The stealth craft that you mention is most likely painted in camo as it could be a coastal operations craft....if you look at the picture the camo does the job of 'breaking' up the outline of the craft. Against a backdrop of jungle the greens work quite well.

I think that china has quickly become the direct competition to the US. A large economy capable of driving a massive military spend with no opposition to it from the domestic side of things, you'know being a communist state and all....

btw the chinese have a much larger fleet than ours (UK)

[edit on 22/5/2006 by Nerevar]

Originally posted by dabomb
man who cares jeez they just copy everyone like tv shows lol why did they paint it camo isnt the ship gonna like be out in the vast ocean?that camo would make it real easy to find lol

(BTW i am currently living in china and there is only one word that can describe it "#hole" lol thank god iam going back to california this summer)

I'm not sure if that is a safe basis for a military estimate. The stealth FAC is a littorial craft and quite frankly they look like a very real threat to even USN. Probably has quadrople YJ-62 cruise missile launchers in each of the silos at the rear of the boat.

Another key naval asset is the JH-7 strike bomber whose primary role would be anti-ship strike with YJ-8 anti-ship missiles. whilst in a 1:1 comparision with say the Tornado or Strike Eagle it looks like a poor performer, in terms of a credible threat it is very real.

You measure the size of a Navy in terms of tonnage, and according to those terms the UK is the second largest. Now, China’s navy cannot project power, if they want to threaten the US they have to come out in the deep waters and not just splash in the puddles. Also, its nice to post pictures and all, but what counts more is the specs, number of system and their effectiveness. Paper performace wont get you very far. Not to mention that it takes a whole lot more than just weapons to become an effective and formidable force. Organization, training, experience, support systems and tactics are something that cannot be achieved by leapfrogging and relying on weapons already in service. The US is starting to ‘wet the bed’? I hardly think so.

[edit on 22-5-2006 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
You measure the size of a Navy in terms of tonnage, and according to those terms the UK is the second largest. Now, China’s navy cannot project power, if they want to threaten the US they have to come out in the deep waters and not just splash in the puddles. Also, its nice to post pictures and all, but what counts more is the specs, number of system and their effectiveness. Paper performace wont get you very far. Not to mention that it takes a whole lot more than just weapons to become an effective and formidable force. Organization, training, experience, support systems and tactics are something that cannot be achieved by leapfrogging and relying on weapons already in service. The US is starting to ‘wet the bed’?

I hardly think so.

Given that the only likely situations where the USN and Chinese Navy are likely to come face-face in combat are centred on Taiwan or Korea, it is fair to say that littorial combat will be a key area - and to an extent that is where the PLAN is focused.

But they do have numerous credible "blue water" units including numerous kilo and various nuclear attack subs, various destroyers etc.

US military culture, at least in the public's eye, is that it can fight wars with virtually no losses. Against the PLAN even today, that's just not realistic. I'm not saying that PLAN is better or better equiped than USN - that is a no contest - but that they could inflict significant losses on the USN such as aircraft carriers and crusiers.

The PLAN neither has the systems nor the numbers to face the US in a blue water engagement. The littorals are where their forces would be most efficient. And given that they cant project power very far they can be contained in their territorial waters thus posing no danger to the US or its many fleets.

Now, China’s navy cannot project power, if they want to threaten the US they have to come out in the deep waters and not just splash in the puddles.

I don't think the Chinese are particularly interested in a blue water confrontation with the USN, their interests are closer to home. Right off their coast in fact.

The only area where there is any real likelihood of conflict with the USN is around Tawain, and given friendly air cover their forces are sufficient to make any US intervention in Tawain expensive and dangerous, which for their purposes is sufficient for the time being.

That said I don't think China wants to take Taiwan by force. They just want to have enough of a strategic advantage in their backyard that Taiwan doesn't think it can unilaterally declare itself independent.

Okay, I seriously cannot believe how misinformed people are thinking that a war between the US and the PRC is going to occur very soon over Taiwan.

If anything, war is FAR from the horizons in the situation between the mainland and Taiwan.

First of all, the KMT virtually has full power of the Parliament, and President Chen (with less than 20% popularity rating) is being RECALLED. The first time it has ever happened in the history of Taiwan.

For now, I suggest you people stop sweating over China invading Taiwan because as far as I can see, it will NOT happen anytime soon, if ever.

No.10 is AWESOME!!!!!!! I love the pic!

But I don't think they are working for the navy, but for the army force, and they are not naval units =.=||

I think that the U.S. has the largest Navy in the world, 12 carrier groups, that's alot of tonnage if you ask me.(mostly Nimitz class)

Also, I think we should worry more about a chinese-taiwan confrontation than a chinese-american confrontation.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by WestPoint23
You measure the size of a Navy in terms of tonnage

That is true, but Naval power is measured differently.

Navies are measured by several criteria, tonage is only one aspect. Other aspects include number of precision weapons, also known as the VLS cell #. Additionally measured is the number of surface combatants not including Aircraft Carriers and amphibs, or the number of Aircraft Carriers and Amphibs.

If you go by intelligent sources rankings, namely places like Janes or RAND, the list is more like:

1) United States
2) Japan
3) Britain
4) India
5) France
6) Russia
7) PLAN
8) South Korea
9) Taiwan
10) Turkey

With that said, the US, Japan, PLAN, and Taiwan all have more surface combatants than the UK, which has 25, the same number as Russia.

The fastest growing fleet today is India, followed by the PLAN and South Korea. India is growing very fast, with 4 different ship classes currently under construction, 2 sub classes under evaluation, and 2 different aircraft Carriers being built.

The nations in the Pacific, from India to Australia to Japan, will pass the Navies of Europe sometime in the next 3-5 years in every catagory of measuring Naval warfare.

Right on abt the projects in progress with the IN. There's a rumored purchase/lease of 2-4 Akula class SSNs, but its all gone very very hush hush now, since N- sub sales won't go too well with the international community.
Also there's the indigenous SSN ATV which has been under construction for over ten years now and is supposedly facing problems with the reactor size.

Subs don't need 'numbers' and supply lines to go blue water. Esp if they're SSNs/SSBNs. Also diesel electric subs with AIP fare well in blue waters..
Does the PLAN have AIP?

Also IMO France definitely has a better navy than India in all aspects..

[edit on 31-5-2006 by Daedalus3]

other notables

the TYPE 051C(shown below) missile destroyer

the TYPE 051C is under construction and is said to be indentical to the TYPE 051B but has a slightly larger displacement and is also to have a 30N6E phased array radar(which can engage 6 targets simultaneously)

the PLAN TYPE 052B destroyer as mentioned

the PLAN TYPE 093(SSN) attack submarine the successor to the TYPE 091(SSN)
no clear photo on record

The TYPE 093 represents an significant advances in CHINA's nulcear submarine technology. The 1st hull was launched in 2001-02 and has been undergoing sea trials since 03. The RUSSIAN RUBIN Design Bureau was said to have assisted in the design and development of the project in the mid late 90's. Its rumored that the TYPE 093 matches or even exceeds the VICTOR III class in all aspects(performance, hull, sonar systems etc.). US naval intelligence and the Pentagon has stated that the PLAN would have 3-4 or even 6-8 units by 2010 depending on sea trials

note the VICTOR III has been rated as quiet as the LOS ANGELES class, making the TYPE 093 very formable

other things to look out for

the J10 naval carrier version

PLA developing a naval version of the J10 which is to be powered by a AL-31FN thrust-vector engine for "future" carrier use

the TYPE 094 ballistic missile submarine
hull launched in July 2004 the TYPE 094 is to be an enlarged version of the TYPE 092, incorporating RUSSIAN technology, much improved "quieting" and sensor systems, advance sonar etc.

the PLAN much clouded VARYAG carrier project

the PLAN 20,000t Amphibious assault ship

Subs don't need 'numbers' and supply lines to go blue water. Esp if they're SSNs/SSBNs. Also diesel electric subs with AIP fare well in blue waters..
Does the PLAN have AIP?

Also IMO France definitely has a better navy than India in all aspects..

China has reportedly aquired AIP technology from Germany. Considering Pakistan, a strong friend of China, is building the Agosta-class with the assistance of the French, the Chinese will have AIP one way or the other if they want it. They don't have it deployed yet if that is your question.

Be careful about buying into the AIP hype. AIP is about endurance at very slow speeds, and would have a lot of trouble fighting in blue water where the mission is hunter/seeker. The longest reported all underwater deployment of an AIP submarine to date is 1600nm from Germany to Rota, Spain with a Type 212A, and it took 14 days at 4.5 knots to do it. AIP subs are best used for littoral defense, setting up in likely operating areas of the enemy, waiting in stealth, and taking out major enemy forces at close range when the enemy comes to the sub.

France has 1 great surface warship today, specifically the 5 ships of the La Fayette class, but until France gets the Horizon class the French Navy lacks high quality air defense within its surface fleet. France needs to upgrade the surface fleet to overtake India, but with a great sub fleet France still ranks in the top 5 in the world.

I had the same thoughts on how China could/would acquire AIP..i.e. the Pakistan Route. I think I mentioned that somewhere on ATS..forgot where though
And about this Germany deal..
Any sources on that?

And why do you rate Russia below India?
Even more perplexing; You rate Japan as No. 2!
Blue water?

Originally posted by Daedalus3
I had the same thoughts on how China could/would acquire AIP..i.e. the Pakistan Route. I think I mentioned that somewhere on ATS..forgot where though

And about this Germany deal..
Any sources on that?

How about 2 sources:

Undersea Dragons: China's Maturing Submarine Force

You may have to hit a university library to read that one.

and

Lyle Goldstein and William Murray, “China Emerges as a Maritime Power,” Jane’s
Intelligence Review, October 1, 2004

For that, you'll need a subscription. News media reports have covered both though, so you can get the jist through the media if you search for it.

The submarine China claims as its AIP submarine is the Yuan class. The Yuan class is interesting, because the other contravery about the Yuan are the unconfirmed reports suggested that Shaanxi Diesel Manufactory is currently building the German MTU 16V-396 diesel under license for the Yuan. The same diesel is used to power the German Type 212 diesel-electric submarine, which just happens to be AIP.

And why do you rate Russia below India?

Easy. Russia's Navy is state of the art, for 1988. Well, at least what's left of it. The fleet would be quite capable if it was maintained and in the hands of trained sailors, but money restricts both right now. Russia will bounce back, but not for another decade at least.

Even more perplexing; You rate Japan as No. 2!
Blue water?

Japan has the second best conventional submarines in the world, the largest surface combatant fleet in the world, and has the very best electronics, radar systems, fire control, and weapon systems money can buy.

Think about it, Japan has twice the number of destroyers and frigates the Royal Navy does, and many of them are larger and better armed than the Royal Navy counterparts, with comparable technology. The RN Type 45s will change that, but then again, so could the Atago class.

As for blue water, I guess you don't read the papers. Blue water deployments to the Indian Ocean is a big discussion topic in Japan.

What type of support ships does japan have

---------------

On the question of chinese AIP,

Which type of AIP would be suit chinese kilo and song class submarines. Fuel cells, sterling type system or the one the french have which is called MESMA. I dont know how MESMA works but the sterling uses external combustion and looks expensive, I think using fuel cells would be the best option for the kilos. Russia might have a kit already from the Lada class

AIR-INDEPENDENT PROPULSION

Sterling AIP


According to "rumours" a ming class submainre was apparntly enlarged by a good two meters and fitted with chinas AIP. I think a picture of the submarine might be a China-defence

EDIT:

Here it is
CHINESE NAVY CONDUCTS AIP EXPERIMENT

Its from Kanwa, which I distrust, but has pictures to prove it



[edit on 2-6-2006 by chinawhite]

Japanese Navy in the Indian Ocean?
I'm sorry.. I was totally unaware..
But I did a little reading and there were some vague references about Japanese MSDF ships on a 2 year mission to refuel coalition ships in the Indian Ocean.
The ships have docked at Indian ports themselves it seems..