Satan and his Decendants

I apologize for the label, but as some will argue, Satanic Worship is within the realm of Religious topics. (I am not a proponent of this, but some are)

My friend ProtOn, has asked in an alternative topic, and I wish to discuss this as indepth as possible, but do not wish to be offending anyone in specific.

The details will come from religious texts, and will definately have a Christian application. (Sorry, but being raised Christian, this is the background I have)

I am certain this will be one sensitive topic, but I hope my friend ProtOn, and any wishing to partake, do so with respect for others. I have no intenetion on slandering anyone or their views, and I trust you, the poster's likewise will keep this inmind.

The premise here, will revolve around the parenthood of Cain, and his decendants, the Cainites. These are real people today, but we can discuss that another time.

So here we go.

We can review, the matter outlined in the Recreation story denoted in the Genesis account from Chapter 1 thru to the End of Chapter 2.

The Races ( Sixth Day Man ) have been created and given dominion over the fruits and plants and animals in a stewardship of good faith to the earth, and we find this concludes the first Chapter.

The second Chapter is dealing with the 'Gardener', Adam (The Man) who was to tend the garden and creation of Livestock (Domesticated) Animals for Adam to name. God then creates Eve, since Adam, unlike the Races, has no one 'like' him.

And we begin.

Chapter 3

The Serpent, is introduced, (naschash in Hebrew, a snake (from it's hiss) - serpent, from the Prime naschash, meaning to hiss, ie whisper a (magic) spell, generally to prognosticate ie divine, enchanter, learning for experience, (use) enchantments.) [Strong's Words 5175 and the Prime 5172]

This is not a simple snake, but the coniving ole devil himself. Satan. (In case this is not clear, we will work on this furtheron.)

Verse 5, is the spin. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as what? As knowledgeable people? As an upstanding individual?

No, and ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil.

Verse 11, And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? Adam says, Hey God, it was that woman you gave to me!

Verse 13 and 15, should clear up what took place.

13: And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Beguiled? What is this? In the Strong's, number 5377, or Nasha in the Hebrew. A prime meaning to lead astray, ie (mentally) to delude or (morally) to seduce.

15: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Seed in the Hebrew mean much of what is expected, Zera from the Prime zara
Zera suggesting sowing, planting and zara to sow, bear, concieve, yield friut.
[Strongs Numbers 2233 Zera, and 2232 Zara]

(Also as an aside, verse 15 this is the first prophecy in the Bible)

Woman get's Cursed, and both her and Adam are thrown from Edin, I mean Eden.

Chapter 4 picks up with Adam knowing his wife and bares two children.

Cain the first born, and Abel, (son of Adam).

What does Eve note during this?

Verse 1: And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

I thought it was Adam, who she got a son from?

And Cain, what does his name mean? The Hebrew notes, Qayin as a Noun, the name of the first child. It is the same word as qayin, from root quwn, that, in the originaly sense meant fixity: A lance (as striking fast) a Spear. Quwn means to strike, as a musical note, Chant or Wail, as at a funeral
[Strongs words Qayin 7014, qayin 7013 and quwn 6969]

Please review and re read this. It is an important matter to recall, since "whats in a name". (I'll be using this elsewhere)

And for those curious out there, exactly what does Abel mean? The son of Adam
[Strong's Number 1893]

Now, Verse 2, confirms the Brotherhood of Cain and Abel as noted; And she again bare his brother Abel.

But right now, there is nothing to suggest Cain is Adam's son, but there is support to suggest Cain is not Adam's son.

The story goes on and lists Two distinct Family Lines. One, Cain's in the balance of chatper 4 and the other Adam's through his next son Seth in chapter 5.

I ask, why is it that Seth is a decendant of Adam and not Cain. Hmmmmm

There will be more. Much much more, to consider.

Until then

Ciao

Shane

Well...

IMO, the idea that separate races were created on separate days (a new one, I must admit) and that the race from Adam is unlike the others is a fine breeding ground for justifiable racism.

Adam "knew" Eve, which is bible speak for had sex with her. So, how is he not Cain's father? I thought Jesus was the only bible character to lack an earthly father (divine haplodiploidy, maybe )?

I don't see the Satan link yet, but I guess you'll get to that later.

Oh, yeah...

And saying that there are people living today who are descended from Satan is another slippery slope to justifiable racism. With the Satan character so slandered and villified in Christian mythology, how well would these people fare against Christians today? It would be like a Christian's duty to "take care of" these people.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Well...

IMO, the idea that separate races were created on separate days (a new one, I must admit) and that the race from Adam is unlike the others is a fine breeding ground for justifiable racism.

Adam "knew" Eve, which is bible speak for had sex with her. So, how is he not Cain's father? I thought Jesus was the only bible character to lack an earthly father (divine haplodiploidy, maybe

)?

I don't see the Satan link yet, but I guess you'll get to that later.

First, BE Patient, we haven't delved into Chapter six.

Second, Take the time to review Chapter one.

Third, After all of the Recreation, God saw it was good.

That inculdes the Races, and buddy, if that is good enough for God, then who am I to ever say, one race is better than the other.

Better yet, who are you to? So please get out the Racist cloud. It skews your vision.

And don't err and think this is some Racism topic. I am as 'white' as my Cainite cousin, my friend.

Ciao

Shane

P.S. Having Sex with a woman, creates the possiblity of offspring occuring. There is nothing devine about Cain's Origin. Just then normal Lustful exploits of the Leader of the Fallen.




[edit on 15-5-2006 by Shane]

[edit on 15-5-2006 by Shane]

Now, we will dwell on Cain, and his decendants, but it would not be fair, if we did not consider Genesis 6, for a few moments.

6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

From here, there is some remarks of God being qrieved he made man, and his intent on destroying what had become of the Recreation.

All of the small and off the cuff sort of problems of man, 'the wickedness of man' was great in the earth, and that 'every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually', along with the Occurance in the Garden, are all the effect of Satan. (We will be addressing this in time)

So, we have the Sons of God coming and taking the Daughter of men and creating Giants, Men of Renown, (such as Hercules, the offspring of a god and a daughter of man). Mighty men which were of old (the time before the flood). Greek, Romans, Babylonians, Philistines, Sumerian, Egyptians, all have the lore in respects to both the Sons of God, who came and took the daughters of man. There is nothing new, in repects to any of these ancient teaching, regardless of what the origin is. The Fallen, lead by Satan.

It is with this as a backdrop, that we move onto Cain for a bit. We may need a refresher, so we'll review this.

And Cain, what does his name mean? The Hebrew notes, Qayin as a Noun, the name of the first child. It is the same word as qayin, from root quwn, that, in the originaly sense meant fixity: A lance (as striking fast) a Spear. Quwn means to strike, as a musical note, Chant or Wail, as at a funeral

Not mentioned, in the above is a note, in the Strong's Concordance

Cain See also Tubal-Cain. Hmmmm

This is refered in in the Geneology of Cain.

So lets review that now.

4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
4:18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
4:23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
4:24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.


Interesting, Cain, in Chapter four moves further east from the Garden of Edin, I mean Eden, (its that freudian slip thing). Finds a Wife in the land of Nod, (Where this is, is complete speculation), and his first Son is Enoch. He builds a City and names it Enoch, and then the Generations follow, thru 6 (SIX the number of Man), to Lamech who, as co-incidence has it, would have been the same time when Jared, of the decendants of Adam was born. The Sixth (6 the number of Man) Generation from Adam.

We need to move from the Bible for a moment, and draw attention to that Sixth Generation. Lamech, a descendant of Cain, and Jared a descendant of Adam.

This Sixth Generation has an importance, It is my understanding, back to the basis of this Topic, that Fallen with their leader Satan influenced our Common History we have amassed today. When this occured, maybe found in the Book of Enoch

www.sacred-texts.com...

CHAPTER VI.
6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.

We'll pickup on this shortly, but maybe take the time to read Chapters 6 thru 11 of Enoch. It's not a lot to review. We'll be here for a short time anyways, if you wish to wait.

We'll also review what these names of Cain decendants mean, since as I noted, they are family with the Fallen.

Ciao

Shane

I see no mention of satan here.

1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

How exactly is this linking abel to adam?

2And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

I can't reply to the rest... haha awsome slip! Garden of Edin

Go on, tell the story!

I don't think there is much scriptural support for this. All we know is that:


-The B'nai Elohim married with the daughters of men (Genesis 6) followed by the flood.

-Not all the giants were killed after the flood, some remained in scattered places.

-This was a different event than when the covering cherub (ie: Satan) attempted to upset the mercy seat for his benefit.

-Many of these giants became gods in paganism

The "evil tribe" thing is probably confusion with the tribe of Dan which was the traitor amongst the 12 tribes, but which scattered along with many others after Babylon invaded. I think the whole "Cain/Abel" dualism was illustrating a spiritual distinction as opposed to a a physical bloodline thing. Cain attempted to buy absolution and force the hand of God into blessing him. Abel was humble and burned an offering as a symbol of his unatoned sin which God would expiate.

[edit on 16-5-2006 by Nakash]

Originally posted by Prot0n

How exactly is this linking abel to adam?

I can't reply to the rest... haha awsome slip! Garden of Edin

Go on, tell the story!

Words and Names mean things ProtOn, although, I am at a loss with yours.

Shane: Scottish for John; meaning Beloved of God.

Abel: Hebrew /Chaldean for Son of Adam

Cain has been noted.

Yeah, well someday we'll get to Edin. It's one HUGE f en Tale, but it IS ALL related.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Nakash
I don't think there is much scriptural support for this. All we know is that:

The "evil tribe" thing is probably confusion with the tribe of Dan which was the traitor amongst the 12 tribes,

I think the whole "Cain/Abel" dualism was illustrating a spiritual distinction as opposed to a a physical bloodline thing.
[edit on 16-5-2006 by Nakash]

But is this what we have been told, or is this really all that there is to know? I suggest we wait and see.

As for Dan, and this topic, NO. Dan is a descendant of Abraham, and has no bloodline to Cain other than Eve. Certainly there is questionable actions that have occured throughout Dan's history, which is still thriving today, but that is a whole different discussion. Lost Tribe's and where are they now topic sort of thing. But I understand what you have noted.

As for the Cain/Abel thought you have noted, there is this aspect as well, and I will not argue against what you presented in this respect.

I do not wish to get into theology, but the Bible is a Historical Text, a Spiritual Text and a Prophetic text so the premise you note falls well within the Spiritual considerations.

But thanks for partaking, and look forward to your input in the future. Those points I cut, where well made, so I know you have thoughts to offer in respects to this.

Have a good night

Ciao

Shane

I think we have been told all that can be discerned. This is the issue I have with the whole "Gnostic gospels" debate- finding a degree of general truth and wisdom in a text is fine, but saying that something written centuries after an event and by somebody unrelated gives us "new" knowledge on the issue (other than that general wisdom I mentioned) is a rather faulty bit of logic. There's nothing in the bible about Satan generating human beings as world rulers in some sort of protocol-esque conspiracy, we know that Giants ruled the Earth at one point, a few remained which were wiped out, and maybe someday the same events might repeat themselves, MAYBE, but this whole thing on bloodlines and so forth- just reminds me of David Icke and his weird ideas on Serpent Gods, reptilians, etc.

Now I understand, from here, and elsewhere, the Books of Enoch did not become included as Biblical Texts, but none the less, it offers details which are appropriate for this topic. If you wish to believe they are valid or not, that is upto you, the reviewer. But it does not mean, the details should not be review or considered, due to the prejudices we may have.

I am only making a point or presenting an arguement, and using texts, that pertain to the topic. If this is outside of what you consider okay, then thats just to bad.

And if you have problems now, I can't wait to see what will be said when the Bomb gets dropped. But that will be my last post in this topic.

So with Enoch, lets review those chapters noted previously. The book certainly appears to be presenting a commentary of the Recreation Story in it's opening Chapters, but I do get lost, in Chapter 5, on what is being suggested here. Obviously God isn't all that pleased, and we seem to have a message of sorts, but we maybe able to figure that out another time.

But Chapter 6 thru 11 (VI - XI) are detailing one period, which falls SPECIFICALLY bewteen that Sixth Generation (Lamech, the Sixth Generation from Cain, and Jared, the Sixth Generation from Adam.), upto the Days of Noah

The introduction to these chapters follows as

VI-XI. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralisation of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels: the Messianic Kingdom (a Noah fragment).

Now due to the lenght of this use of Enoch, I think I will External it, because it is certainly more than a few verses being used.

CHAPTER VI.
1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.'

3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' 4. And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.'

5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.

7. And these are the names of their leaders: Sêmîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. 8. These are their chiefs of tens.

So, the point in Chapter 6 is that Jared, from the Sixth Generation from Adam, and Lamech, from the Sixth generation of Cain (Thats funny! How Many 6s) happen to be the generation that saw the Fall of the Angels and their pact/pledge/oath/ with their leader, which has a name, along with 19 others, the Chiefs of Tens.

People, Places, and Things (the Fallen) are detailed here, but lets move on

CHAPTER VII.
1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants.

2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: 3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood.

6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

Noted here, in a little more detail, is a bit of what the Giants did, mentioned in Genesis Chapter 6, posted earlier.

We also see things are being taught to women. Charms & Enchantments (spells?) Cutting of roots and knowledge of Plants, (Potions, medicines? Pain Killers for BIRTHING a Giant!! Man, or better WOman, that's got to hurt)

Also we see, these Giants did not play well together, First eating everything including Mankind, and then each other. Good thing God gets rid of these.

So we are seeing here, more detail, than the brief 6 Verses of Genesis 6, which thus far, is not in contradiction to anything noted within the Bible.

We'll pickup on this in mere moments

Space Problems

Ciao

Shane

Shane, I think your posts are wonderful. I have a friend who wrote one of the most fascinating books I have ever read. His chapters on the nephilim are mind blowing. U2U me if you would like me to e-mail you a copy.

I want to hear more of your theory.

woa i think my heads hurts now
but very intresting stuff il be checkin back here for more of it

Unlike Cain, I see myself as my brothers keeper. Perhaps that is just the way my family is, traditions along with history and all, or how I was conditioned via my enviornment.

In any case, perhaps if that was the case. The world and our collective colloborative efforts, would of turned out for the better.

Originally posted by truthseeka
saying that there are people living today who are
descended from Satan is another slippery slope to justifiable racism.

Exactly.

When we lived in Alabama we heard it all the time. 'black people are
the sons of cain .. the black skin is 'the mark' that Cain received and
therefore they are all damned.

We heard that A LOT. It wasn't isolated.
Gawd .. I'm soooooo glad not to be living there anymore.

SATAN is a created being who is pure spirit and incapable of
procreation. It has no biological offspring. Evil spirits still
to this day can sexually attack people .. but that doesn't mean
that they are capable of procreation. They don't have life
within them.





[edit on 5/17/2006 by FlyersFan]

Here, in chapter VIII, we have, an account of what some of those Fallen, taught to man.

CHAPTER VIII.
1. And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals 〈of the earth〉 and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures.

2. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways.

Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings,
Armârôs the resolving of enchantments,
Barâqîjâl (taught) astrology,
Kôkabêl the constellations,
Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds,
〈Araqiêl the signs of the earth,
Shamsiêl the signs of the sun〉,
and Sariêl the course of the moon.

And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .

So, Verse one is interesting.

Let's focus for a monent on one of Cain's decendants, Tubal Cain.

I think, if I am not mistaken, a lad, by the name of Tubal Cain invented something, or was, at the very least, taught something history accounts to him. Hmmmmm, It's here somewhere.......

Now I see it. Azazel taugh man what again? What is Tubal Cain known to have crafted. Is this Tubal Cain's great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather or at the worst, one of his collegues? Is Azazel the one who teaches Tubal Cain? One who becomes a man of renown known also as Vulcan to other peoples in the not so distant future. Known as other names to other people in the not so distant future?

And we see clearly, 'Others' likewise, are teaching, and teaching and teaching man, things. I find a lot of this quite interesting.

Moving on Chapter 9 covers four Archangels hearing the cries, and petitioning God on the behalf of those cries, confirming yet again, what is discussed in Genesis Chapter 6, and asking for directions into what is to be done.

CHAPTER IX.
1. And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth.

2. And they said one to another: 'The earth made †without inhabitant cries the voice of their crying† up to the gates of heaven. 3 ⌈⌈And now to you, the holy ones of heaven⌉⌉, the souls of men make their suit, saying, "Bring our cause before the Most High.".'

4. And they said to the Lord of the ages:

'Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings, 〈and God of the ages〉, the throne of Thy glory (standeth) unto all the generations of the ages, and Thy name holy and glorious and blessed unto all the ages! 5. Thou hast made all things, and power over all things hast Thou: and all things are naked and open in Thy sight, and Thou seest all things, and nothing can hide itself from Thee. 6. Thou seest what Azâzêl hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which men were striving to learn: 7. And Semjâzâ, to whom Thou hast given authority to bear rule over his associates. 8. And they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. 9. And the women have borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness. 10. And now, behold, the souls of those who have died are crying and making their suit to the gates of heaven, and their lamentations have ascended: and cannot cease because of the lawless deeds which are wrought on the earth. 11. And Thou knowest all things before they come to pass, and Thou seest these things and Thou dost suffer them, and Thou dost not say to us what we are to do to them in regard to these.'

We have, in these few chapters of Enoch (VI thru XI) been reviewing events that have occured over a period of some 1100 Years, from the Days of Jared, when the Fallen bound themselves by and oath, to the point here when these four Archangels present a petition of the cries of humanity to the most Holy, God. This is also known as the Days of Noah, which is covered in the next Chapter.

From the Genesis Account of the Creation of Adam, Until Noah's calling to create an Ark, is a span of 1561 Years, give or take 1 or two years.

Adam would have still been alive when Methuselah was born, his great, great, great, great, great, great, great grand son.

Just thought I leave you with something to consider. I think this is Amazing!

We'll skip thru the next to chapters, and pickup on this then.

And for your review, I note these links again

King James Bible
www.jesus-is-lord.com...

Book of Enoch
www.sacred-texts.com...

Ciao

Shane

I dont have much space here, so we comment later. Here are the last chapters dealing with Enoch and this Genesis 6 Account.

CHAPTER X

1. Then said the Most High, the Holy and Great One spake, and sent Uriel to the son of Lamech, and said to him: 2. 'Go to Noah and tell him in my name "Hide thyself!" and reveal to him the end that is approaching: that the whole earth will be destroyed, and a deluge is about to come upon the whole earth, and will destroy all that is on it. 3. And now instruct him that he may escape and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.'

4. And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. 5. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. 6. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. 8. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin.'

9. And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. 10. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.'

11. And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjâzâ and
his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated.

13 In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: 〈and〉 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations. 15. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: ⌈and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth⌉ shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.

17 And then shall all the righteous escape,
And shall live till they beget thousands of children,
And all the days of their youth and their old age
Shall they complete in peace.

18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and be full of blessing. 19. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield ten presses of oil. 20. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth destroy from off the earth. 21. ⌈And all the children of men shall become righteous⌉, and all nations shall offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.

Thanks alot you fallen and your leader. What a mess.

CHAPTER XI.
1. And in those days I will open the store chambers of blessing which are in the heaven, so as to send them down ⌈upon the earth⌉ over the work and labour of the children of men. 2. And truth and peace shall be associated together throughout all the days of the world and throughout all the generations of men.'

Well, so much for that, as we find in Luke 17, Verse 27

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

The days we live in today.

Ciao

Shane

In case you haven't figured it out, Enoch wasn't included within the canon for a reason. Enoch did not become a God (Metatron isn't even an angel if you know your scripture), Shemyaza is a Syrian deity which somehow got it's name confused in this whole convoluted angeology, and Moses said that he would not reveal certain things to us poor chumps (Deuteronomy 29:29 ) for the precise reason I see in this thread- because it would be used along with Gigantic amounts of speculation against what he established to be true. Enoch would never disobey Moses, of that I'm sure

Originally posted by Nakash
Enoch did not become a God

I can assure you Enoch is no God. He is the Scribe of God. (Enoch of Adam's decendants.). And he is unique, that he walked with God and He took him. That must have been something. I am looking forward to speaking with Enoch about that, in the days to come

Shemyaza is a Syrian deity

As for names, you are picking up on this Nakash. These names represent gods of many cultures and more importantly for this topic, Families. Shemyaza is a Syrian diety and he has been known as other things to others as well. All of the Fallen have as well.

And tell me, where would the Fallen, have located?

Among the Decendants of Adam, who despite being dispatched from Eden, still worshipped God? Noah was a fine man with a pure pedigree, so he was not worshipping these. Abraham still followed the practices of the Sacrafice. Lot was a just man, So it is unlikely we would see any of these "Fallen" within this History (The Decendants of Adam) as denoted in the Books of Moses. These where foreign pagan gods and dietes to the Israelis and there deads meant little to Israel. By now, God was living with them.

And if you had not noticed, where was Shemyaza, or Baal, or any of these gods during the Days of Moses. Which Foreign Peoples had their gods and dieties any longer, other than in the form of some Golden Idol? Baal wasn't there, because of the Flood, and the events described in part, in Genesis 6, and as outlined in Enoch chapter 9, and 10.

But you are getting it Nakash.

Moses said that he would not reveal certain things to us poor chumps(Deuteronomy 29:29 )
Enoch would never disobey Moses, of that I'm sure

And what did Moses really say.

www.jesus-is-lord.com...

29:22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the LORD hath laid upon it;
29:23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:
29:24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?
29:25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
29:26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:
29:27 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:
29:28 And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.
29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
30:2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

This is a prophecy about what will occur to Israel, that 29:29 is noting. This secret thing, is the Time. That is the realm of the Lord our God. Moses is reminding the Israelis that day, that all they need to do is maintain the Covenant.

These are the secret things of the LORD our God. The realm of "the future" in these verses. These things are for the Lord our God to know, when they take place.

We can not take the Verse from the Text Nakash, and expect the meaning to be anything you wish. It is specific, and it has meaning as noted in context to the topic.

And for the just noted reason, I do not think Enoch is disobeying Moses. Although I am certain Enoch may have ran out of Days to live by the days of Moses. Enoch was born about 934 or so years before the Flood or the time Noah, who was 500 and had his three male children, when Uriel came and told him to build the Ark according to the instructions given by God. It is clear, Enoch lived thru the flood period, but how long after this, would start to become the speculation your concerned with.

Ciao

Shane

Great that you figured out that many of the Nephilim and their children became "Gods" later on (ie: the Titans of Greco-Roman cosmology, the Vanir and Giants of the Northmen, Hadad/Melqart and the other sons of Enlil in Babylon, Q and his associated brother deities in Mesoamerica, and so forth), but I still disagree on Enoch being part of the Bible. It's quoted by Jude in his epistle, but it's a matter of what he knew could be trusted and inspired over what could not. Enoch cannot be a faithful account of these events to the last detail for the simple reason that it is actually a summary of an older "Book of Noah" which supposedly had the "exact" story (imagine how ancient that book would be if Enoch is 4000 years old....)