Ignorant people ruining this site

Masons going Unabomber on some dude's toilet is no reason to have a meltdown, it's a reason to lighten up and laugh a little.

I'm sure 95% of the members here think that the story is BS anyways so I don't see a reason to take it so seriously.

Peace

The Golden Age Of ATS

NOTE: This anecdotal diatribe isn't aimed at Ezekiel or anyone in particular, but is just me prattling on about my own thoughts on this venerable BQ&B tradition.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I see it's time for the latest round of "ATS ain't what it used to be"...

I resemble that remark!

Somehow, ATS managed to survive despite not implementing all my wonderful, learned and foolproof suggestions for improving it.

Of course, every complaint of this kind is the clarion call of a latter-day prophet, and every rebuttal a shooting of the messenger (to use my own words).

As time has passed, I have come to realize that much of my own complaining was shouting at the mirror, and much of the ignorance I railed about was my own.

Wandering In The Desert

Not long after the hoopla surrounding my own This Board Is Going Downhill adventure died down, I became scarce on ATS for a few months. I would go to log in but more often than not decided not to, thinking, "No, I just don't want to deal with it right now."

And thus I did other things.

Later, I came back. ATS had grown, my attitude had improved (absence makes the heart grow fonder), and while many of the same problems I had complained about remained (and ever shall, I'm afraid), I had come to understand that ATS didn't need to be perfect, just good enough.

My perspective was tempered by having spent more time on other discussion boards, among other things.

Let's just say every board has its pros and cons.

The Starfish Principle

So I came back, and here I am -- lucky you.

Upon my return, I experienced an admittedly slow but increscent (cool word, eh?) epiphany. I resolved to practice what I preached.

My new creed:

• Don't like the quality of posts? Submit better posts.
  
  
• Don't like the tone of the discussion? Improve the tone of your posts.
  
  
• Don't like the subjects being discussed? Start threads on subjects you think are important.
  
  
• Don't like the education level of your fellow members? Help educate them -- patiently, and by posting opinions supported by verifiable facts.
  
  
• Don't like the opinions of other members? Share yours -- and never forget that you may be the one who is wrong.

It may sound cliché, but SO is right: ATS literally is what you make it.

Did I follow my creed unerringly, and do I now? Oh hell no! :shk:

But every bit helps.

The Forum Ouroboros

Each time a member posts garbage to ATS, it is diminished a little. Each time a member posts a work of profound insight, ATS is improved a little.

Each time a member attacks another member, ATS becomes a more hostile place. Each time a member demonstrates patience and compassion, ATS becomes a more pleasant place.

Each time a member logs out, ATS dies a little. Each time a member logs in, ATS is reborn a little.

ATS is a work in progress, and is not the product of a single member, but the collective effort of the entire community.

To the extent we each commit ourselves to making it a better place, it will become a better place.

ATS is a reflection of who we are.

Many good comments, but i will still add mine.

Ignorance isn't a dirty word, it IS an opportunity to enlighten, if approached that way.

Few times in life can you find yourself without opposition on a topic

Living in glass houses- blah blah de blah

different strokes for different folks.

egocentrism usually goes away after puberty in responsible people.

What some see as ignorance, others see as enlightened.

dont get married to ideas... you might just be WRONG.

and in closing, Valhall is right, so listen to the board momma.

Its Tuesday morning:

I still dont have a job. My husband suffers from bipolar disorders brought about by the VietNam War. My oldest son has a restraining order and is not allowed to see his kids. My youngest son has to move his family as the house they live in is being sold. The new baby comes home from the hospital today. My daughter in law has the baby blues and is constantly crying.

This is my life currently. I only offer you some of my problems as an example that life for everyone is full of drama. Some people cannot honestly separate their problems from their posts. We need to be understanding of those seemingly troubled people. Thank goodness i can separate my problems and come here to put up a story and have a few laughs, and i will be forever greatful that ATS puts up with my whacky sense of humor and my shocking threads.

Not everyone is like me (nor would they most likely want to be), but if i can give one advice, is to lighten up and even if you disagree, be civil to each other. Life is too short and we are very very lucky to have one another.


I am a grandmother to a beautiful little girl today and her name is Sara. I am blessed in many ways!

And btw, a young grandma. I'm not an old phart yet!!!

[edit on 9-5-2006 by dgtempe]

SHeesh, I cant believe people are blaming the mods for this. If someone makes a "stupid" comment, like the whole "masons made me blow up my toilet" thing, then why dont you just explain your view of how that is nonsence. That seems easy enough to me. The mods cant do anything about that. You know, the whole "freedom of speach" thing. Who is to say what is nonsence or not? Seems to me the responsibility lies with the intellegent members of this site who have the ability to respectfully debunk them and make them look foolish. Seriously, why should the mods be responsible for debating your view for you?

As for those people who are constantly being hatefull, and have nothing decent to post, is there anyway to set up a system based on how many people "ignore" them? Like, 30, 40 pepople have this person on ignore, so obviously they need a time out, kind of thing. Where they can not make any more posts for a certin amount of time. That would be cool.

Also - a personal request here - if someone is making posts like that, please do not quote them. More than likely, many members already have that person on ignore so that they dont have to read their junk. If you quote them in your post, not only do we have to see it, but then everything gets off topic, and they end up with more attention than they deserve.

Originally posted by dgtempe
I am a grandmother to a beautiful little girl today and her name is Sara. I am blessed in many ways!

Congratulations and God bless!

What's your opinion on people posting here, who claim to be in communication with an alien overlord residing in the center of hollow Earth? Does it improve the quality of the board or ruins it?

Well, Aelita, can you prove they are wrong?

Yea, it sounds silly and way far out there, but unless you can prove with out a doubt that they are wrong, then it is good and up for discussion. Thats the beauty of this site. It forces you to educate yourself on topics most will never cover in school or anywhere else.

Big foot, aliens, hollow earth, jfk, govt conspericies, etc., if you cant prove it either way, then it is up for discussion no matter how silly it sounds to you.
Gotta love it

[edit on 9-5-2006 by mrsdudara]

Originally posted by Dr Love
Masons going Unabomber on some dude's toilet is no reason to have a meltdown, it's a reason to lighten up and laugh a little.

I'm sure 95% of the members here think that the story is BS anyways so I don't see a reason to take it so seriously.

Peace

Oh dont worry - I had a great old laugh at the thought of Masons sneaking in and planting explosives into someones toilet. I was only using that as an example since it stuck in my mind

Originally posted by mrsdudara
SHeesh, I cant believe people are blaming the mods for this. If someone makes a "stupid" comment, like the whole "masons made me blow up my toilet" thing, then why dont you just explain your view of how that is nonsence. That seems easy enough to me. The mods cant do anything about that. You know, the whole "freedom of speach" thing. Who is to say what is nonsence or not? Seems to me the responsibility lies with the intellegent members of this site who have the ability to respectfully debunk them and make them look foolish. Seriously, why should the mods be responsible for debating your view for you?

Im not asking the mods to debate my point for me, however I would like to see more done to members that make VERY offensive generalisations about people such as "....all freemasons are child molestors".

I dont mind constructive criticism and I'm a huge supporter of freedom of speech -however there is a line that should not be crossed.

I also like your idea of an ignore counter. =) Two thumbs up for that one


[edit on 9-5-2006 by Ezekiel]

Originally posted by Ezekiel
I dont mind constructive criticism and I'm a huge supporter of freedom of speech -however there is a line that should not be crossed.

I love it when someone says something like that. "I support Freedom of Speech as long as it doesn't go too far".

So, you support Freedom of Speech as long as it isn't the opposite of what you think? As long as it isn't generalizations? As long as it isn't offensive? Freedom of Speech is most important for those comments that are unpopular, offensive and against the grain. That's when we NEED Freedom of Speech.

By the way, Freedom of Speech is not extended to ATS.

Ive been coming to this site for over a year, yet I only joined the site last week.

Its rate highly in the dailey ritual of sites I browse, and Im always hoping for that thread that makes me spend some time following up the original information to gather a balanced opinion.

I didn't join way back when I first came across ATS, simply cause I felt WAY out of my depth with the people who obviuosly knew what they was talking about.
The education has been wonderful. I've learnt many things whilst reading these forums.
It has stirred my imagination, shocked me at times, and even made me laugh (Prophet Yahweh in the UFO forums)

If anything ruins it for me, its some of the nasty things said about Israelis, Americans, Muslims and so on. People painting everyone with the same stick, that to me is ignorance.

Ignor this user button is a wonderful idea.

Terms Of Endearment

Originally posted by Ezekiel
Im not asking the mods to debate my point for me, however I would like to see more done to members that make VERY offensive generalisations about people such as "....all freemasons are child molestors".

The only authority moderators have comes from the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use.

If a post complies with the T&C, even if it may be considered "ignorant", it would be wrong for a mod to do anything about it -- other than perhaps comment as a fellow member, which all staff members are.

There's no prohibition against being ignorant on ATS. Granted, it's not encouraged, but it's legal.

After all, what's the point of claiming to Deny Ignorance when you aren't willing to confront it?

Also, the definition of what is "knowledge" and what is "ignorance" varies wildly from one member to another.

Would you really want moderators dictating which is which?

i don't share the same attitude, sorry ezekiel...

there may be more "ignorant" people now, but i am sure there are more ATSers with great minds than in 2002...

"the good equals the bad"...

anyway, what do you think qualifies to be an"ignorant" person???

A Reminder - What is Ignorance and Everything is Not a Conspiracy...




[edit on 9-5-2006 by they see ALL]

Originally posted by imbalanced
I agree too. I like to read about stories that could have some sort of reality to them, but reading about " a three headed women", or "do we meet aliens when we die" is not fun. I get interested when something sounds credible and deserves a little more attention. I find myself browsing the science and aircraft section more because of this.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by imbalanced]

I agree as well. When I joined the site back in early 2003, the level of discussion, intrigue, and thought was amazing. Now i see silly, unprovoking, juvinile posts and threads.

I chalk that off too the fact that this site has grown so huge and now has a much broader base, so when you get a bigger keg, the beer tends to get watered down. But there are still enough smart worthwhiole posts and posters on here to keep it interesting. You just have alot more crap to filter through to get to them now.

How refreshing, a poster bitching about something. How about quit whining, be positive in your approach, and help these "ignorant" people? Just a thought...

Originally posted by Burginthorn
Ignor this user button is a wonderful idea.

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, or a willful lack of desire to improve the efficiency, merit, effectiveness or usefulness of one's actions. Ignorance is also a "state of being ignorant" or unaware (not knowing).

Ignorance?

Can someone cut me out of this web of semantics?

[edit on 9/5/06 by Implosion]

Ain't nothin what it used to be. The whole world has changed in the way it operates and even just how people act and think since 2002, let alone back in the good ole days so it's only natural that Internet forum boards take that bad left turn along with it. Don't let it get to ya Ezekiel! Just ignore the ignorant



And Congrats on the new addition to your family dgtempe!

[edit on 9-5-2006 by ImJaded]

Originally posted by Majic
Terms Of Endearment

Originally posted by Ezekiel
Im not asking the mods to debate my point for me, however I would like to see more done to members that make VERY offensive generalisations about people such as "....all freemasons are child molestors".

The only authority moderators have comes from the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use.

If a post complies with the T&C, even if it may be considered "ignorant", it would be wrong for a mod to do anything about it -- other than perhaps comment as a fellow member, which all staff members are.

There's no prohibition against being ignorant on ATS. Granted, it's not encouraged, but it's legal.

After all, what's the point of claiming to Deny Ignorance when you aren't willing to confront it?

Also, the definition of what is "knowledge" and what is "ignorance" varies wildly from one member to another.

Would you really want moderators dictating which is which?

Of course I dont want moderators to censor people and to dictate 'which is which'. However I dont think it is too much to ask to caution people or give them warnings for posting offensive generalisations such as the one I mentioned above.

If the mods are prepared to let people go ahead make threads which claim things like "freemasons are all child molesting satanists" without having a conspiracy theme to the thread (Which is the point of these forums, is it not?) then I am seriously disapointed.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
Like, 30, 40 pepople have this person on ignore, so obviously they need a time out, kind of thing. Where they can not make any more posts for a certin amount of time.

Well, that idea certainly has the potential to make it awfully quiet around here. With the Factions that exist, it would be easy for a group to constantly refresh their ignores, thus silencing a member. A member-driven Ban, if you will.

I agree with you on the quoting of offensive posts. There's nothing like seeing someone on Global Ignore with the words they were put on it for readable anyway.

[edit on 5/9/2006 by eaglewingz]

The "know it all" problem is a huge problem on ATS which has been coming more from moderators then anything in the past couple years. Someone posts something interesting and a mod comes in and debunks it with a semi lengthy post basing all their info on "main stream" thinking. Which in reality a lot of what they are saying are just opinions of so called "experts" in the matter when really those "experts" do not really know much more then anyone else. They also more times then not give off the impression that we should not even be discussing it since it's not main stream thinking and since they have posted their debunk that's the end of the matter. Then everyone jumps on the bandwagon because they see the moderator as a form of authority and know how. This site over the past two years that I have been a part of it has become more and more closed minded to the point that we are not denying ignorance we are bathing in it.

Since ATS did this three partner thing it's focus seems to be more of a money maker then anything else. We seem to be getting treated like kids with all caps subject lines for new rules and if we ever question these people we get told to shut up or get threatened with a ban. Rules here on ATS do not apply to everyone, if you are part of the "in crowd" and know a mod or supermod you can get away with pretty much anything, it's seriously ridiculous as of late.

Ah well, if this sort of stuff keeps up people will just move on to the next big site.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by d1k]

Originally posted by Ezekiel
Of course I dont want moderators to censor people and to dictate 'which is which'. However I dont think it is too much to ask to caution people or give them warnings for posting offensive generalisations such as the one I mentioned above.

If the mods are prepared to let people go ahead make threads which claim things like "freemasons are all child molesting satanists" without having a conspiracy theme to the thread (Which is the point of these forums, is it not?) then I am seriously disapointed.

You will note that many members, mods included, have been denying the ignorance in that thread. Quite effectively too, I might add. What was posted there was not against the T&C, thus we just can't touch it, other than posting.