Ignorant people ruining this site

Originally posted by Ezekiel

Im not asking the mods to debate my point for me, however I would like to see more done to members that make VERY offensive generalisations about people such as "....all freemasons are child molestors".

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Ezekiel]

Me too, but I would rather see the members take a stand and squash out the gereralisations. I dont feel that is up to the mods. That is not their responsibility. It is ours. Not only at this site, but in life. You cant just sit around and wait for someone else to stand up for what YOU feel is right. You godda do that yourself.

Originally posted by they see ALL
i don't share the same attitude, sorry ezekiel...

there may be more "ignorant" people now, but i am sure there are more ATSers with great minds than in 2002...

"the good equals the bad"...

anyway, what do you think qualifies to be an"ignorant" person???

[edit on 9-5-2006 by they see ALL]

I agree that there are more ATSers with great minds and great views than there were in 2002, that is only natural with the membership having grown so much.

After thinking about it and re-reading my posts I should have probably used the word 'disrespectful' instead of 'ignorant'.

However my idea of an ignorant person is one who is intolerant of another person or their ideas, however is also critical of ideas that are presented to them. Blindly accepting and believing everything you read does not help you or the author in the greater search for the truth.

I'm a firm believer that the only way to reach the real truth of any subject is through debate and discussion. However that debate and discussion should be carried out in a respectful and courteous manner.

Generalisations and accusations are not needed and they do not help the process. Unfortunately that is what I feel I am seeing more of lately and that is what I was referring to in my earlier posts.

Originally posted by intrepid
You will note that many members, mods included, have been denying the ignorance in that thread. Quite effectively too, I might add. What was posted there was not against the T&C, thus we just can't touch it, other than posting.

I understand your position on that one intrepid, I was going to post in that thread but couldnt bring myself to give the OP any more attention =)

Me too, but I would rather see the members take a stand and squash out the gereralisations. I dont feel that is up to the mods. That is not their responsibility. It is ours. Not only at this site, but in life. You cant just sit around and wait for someone else to stand up for what YOU feel is right. You godda do that yourself.

While I agree with you that every person should always stand up for themselves first, I have to disagree that it is not up to the moderators to keep people in line.

When certain people repeatedly make false and offensive statements about a group of people - knowing full well that members of this site are included in that group - I would like to think that for the betterment of the community and to prevent threads from degenerating and hostilities between members emerging, the moderators would at least point out to the offending member that they are being very disrespectful to a number of people who frequent this site and warn them against continuing to do so.





[edit on 9-5-2006 by Ezekiel]

Originally posted by d1k
The "know it all" problem is a huge problem on ATS which has been coming more from moderators then anything in the past couple years. Someone posts something interesting and a mod comes in and debunks it with a semi lengthy post basing all their info on "main stream" thinking. Which in reality a lot of what they are saying are just opinions of so called "experts" in the matter when really those "experts" do not really know much more then anyone else. Then everyone jumps on the bandwagon because they see the moderator as a form of authority and know how. This site over the past two years that I have been a part of it has become more and more closed minded to the point that we are not denying ignorance we are bathing in it.

Here is a great example. Take this post for instance.

I choose to disagree with this person. I also FEEL that this is one of those nasty "generalisations" we are talking about. This person has every right to FEEL however he wants, and it is not my place to say his FEELINGS are wrong. I, on the other hand dissagree with this statement. I believe that mods are members too, most of them are just better at wording their arguments than others. BOOHOO for me when I am trying to win an argument. I have not seen, anywhere, where everyone jumps on their side of the argument just because their mods. I HAVE seen where everyone tends to give them more heat because they are mods though. I also have NEVER seen where one claimed to be an "expert".
Now, dont get me wrong, there are one or two who can get under my skin at times, but why bash all mods just because of one or two individuals?


d1k, you obviously feel quite strongly about this, are there any examples you can give to back up your generalisation?


The main reason that I am standing up for this is because there are a few mods who were just members when I started comming on here. Nice people, who debate well, and are very respectful twards others. I dont like to see good people get bashed with nasty generalisations.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by mrsdudara]

Sometimes it can be frustrating to read some of the threads on here. I just try to remember I came here to deny my ignorance, not other peoples.

Perhaps not the best tack to take, but it's a lot less stressful.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
I also have NEVER seen where one claimed to be an "expert".

d1k, you obviously feel quite strongly about this, are there any examples you can give to back up your generalisation?

Look around, quite a few people have "subject matter expert" in their very avatar.

As for giving examples again, pick a thread, there are many.

You obviously don't understand what I am saying apparently find it funny. These are not just FEELINGS if you take the time to go LOOK for it. You also didn't quote my edited text where I added on to it.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by d1k]

[edit on 9-5-2006 by d1k]

Originally posted by Ezekiel

When certain people repeatedly make false and offensive statements about a group of people - knowing full well that members of this site are included in that group - I would like to think that for the betterment of the community and to prevent threads from degenerating and hostilities between members emerging, the moderators would at least point out to the offending member that they are being very disrespectful to a number of people who frequent this site and warn them against continuing to do so.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Ezekiel]

Ok, you got me there. That is a good point.

Originally posted by Duzey
I just try to remember I came here to deny my ignorance, not other peoples.

That is probably the single most enlightening thing I have read all day =)

I think that will have to be my motto from now on. Actually do you mind if I use that in my sig?

I have seen similar things to what d1k has described. He's not alone on that one.

On more than one occasion, I have noticed a mod drop into a thread and let loose some wisdom with an extremely condescending manner. Perhaps the mod has their member hat on at the time or just doesn't realize how their post comes across.


Ezekiel - feel free to use it. That little saying has saved me a huge amount of headaches.

Originally posted by d1k

Look around, quite a few people have "subject matter expert" in their very avatar.

So what? Some of them are experts in that subject. It doesnt mean that they are know it alls or anything, it just means they can put up a better argument, or add more to the subject matter.

[quote
As for giving examples again, pick a thread, there are many.


I have read quite a few, and dont see what you are talking about that is why I am asking you to help me and others understand your argument by pointing it out.

You also didn't quote my edited text where I added on to it.

That is because I was not commenting on that part of your post. I didnt feel it was worth making everyone read again, if I was not going to comment on it. I personally dont like to argue about if this site is all about the money or not. I dont care. It is a good site either way.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
I have read quite a few, and dont see what you are talking about that is why I am asking you to help me and others understand your argument by pointing it out.

Then that's your problem. You should keep looking. Although I highly doubt you did any serious research in the seven minutes it took you to reply since your last post.

That is because I was not commenting on that part of your post. I didnt feel it was worth making everyone read again, if I was not going to comment on it. I personally dont like to argue about if this site is all about the money or not. I dont care. It is a good site either way.

Actually you quoted the part I added on to.

I'm now going to deny ignorance now by not replying to you again. Take care.

[edit on 9-5-2006 by d1k]

Originally posted by d1k
Since ATS did this three partner thing it's focus seems to be more of a money maker then anything else.

(I was wondering how long it would take for the spectre of money to creep into this latest gripe drama thread.)


There's a very long list of easier ways to make money online than there is in running a discussion board. If I (or Springer or Simon) were focus on revenue generation for our online activities, none of us would be making any effort in ATS. Despite rumors, innuendo, assumptions, and false claims, this site is no-where near a cash-cow and requires considerable daily attention to both technology and day-to-day management of goings on.

Based on a limited collection of facts, I suppose it's possible to jump to the conclusions you've jumped to.

Our initiatives (or the "new rules" you seem to dislike) are always focused on continued advancements to provide a better service for our members. For example the recent character-count limit for posts is directly related to overall discussion board performance. It's not a rule, it's simply applying the same type of upper limitations nearly every board has (for good reason).

I wish you could spend a day in my shoes (especially over the last 3 weeks of performance problems, server upgrades, struggles with hardware vendors, etc.)... you'd realize there's no riches in this. Or, just do the math on the hardware we're using... that'd be easier.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by d1k
Since ATS did this three partner thing it's focus seems to be more of a money maker then anything else.

(I was wondering how long it would take for the spectre of money to creep into this latest gripe drama thread.)


There's a very long list of easier ways to make money online than there is in running a discussion board. If I (or Springer or Simon) were focus on revenue generation for our online activities, none of us would be making any effort in ATS. Despite rumors, innuendo, assumptions, and false claims, this site is no-where near a cash-cow and requires considerable daily attention to both technology and day-to-day management of goings on.

Based on a limited collection of facts, I suppose it's possible to jump to the conclusions you've jumped to.

Our initiatives (or the "new rules" you seem to dislike) are always focused on continued advancements to provide a better service for our members. For example the recent character-count limit for posts is directly related to overall discussion board performance. It's not a rule, it's simply applying the same type of upper limitations nearly every board has (for good reason).

I wish you could spend a day in my shoes (especially over the last 3 weeks of performance problems, server upgrades, struggles with hardware vendors, etc.)... you'd realize there's no riches in this. Or, just do the math on the hardware we're using... that'd be easier.

If I was off base in anything I said it would be the money issue. I'm just disheartened in some things that have been going on lately. Sorry.

I think it's a frustration issue. I think the frustration stems from the conflict between reading what you interpret as possibly the dumbest idea or concept in the world, and the desire to tell the poster exactly that. I think its a natural urge to want to ask "Are you out of your mind?" I understand the concept of attacking the idea or concept, but honestly, some posters are intentionally baiting other posters. You can't deny that. For instance; www.abovetopsecret.com...

If I'm sitting at the bar, and the fella' next to me says "The Cubs are gonna' win the World Series!", I can confidently say to his face, "That is the dumbest thing you have ever said." Of course, there may be consequences to that response, but I'm willing to accept them.

Here, the ding-dongs can say what they want to , and as long as it isn't obscene, racially insensitive, or a blatant lie, we have to accept it. And we have to accept that we can't respond in kind. It's difficult...my tongue gets raw from biting it. And I won't use the ignore button...as far as I'm concerned it's like looking at the world through rose-tinted glasses.

And finally, I'm positive I've posted some thoughts that were not well developed. But I'm working on improving the quality of my contributions here.

Originally posted by MrPenny
And finally, I'm positive I've posted some thoughts that were not well developed. But I'm working on improving the quality of my contributions here.

Im exactly the same mate =) I applaud all members who are always striving to improve the quality of their contributions.

As long as they remain respectful of everyone else of course

When I first saw this headline I thougt it said:

"Ignorant people running this site"

I almosted freaked out. I couldn't understand how anyone would think that this site was run by ignorant people when it works so well. Also, I don't think that ignorant people are ruining this site unless you count the members that are always griping about things *cough- this thread - cough* . And then I usually just ignore them anyways.

Happy ATSing to everyone.

Originally posted by Ezekiel
I agree that there are more ATSers with great minds and great views than there were in 2002, that is only natural with the membership having grown so much.

After thinking about it and re-reading my posts I should have probably used the word 'disrespectful' instead of 'ignorant'.

However my idea of an ignorant person is one who is intolerant of another person or their ideas, however is also critical of ideas that are presented to them. Blindly accepting and believing everything you read does not help you or the author in the greater search for the truth.

i like these words ezekiel...

i hope you come to peace with this thread and the great replies you got here...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
(I was wondering how long it would take for the spectre of money to creep into this latest gripe drama thread.)

I had page 4. You owe me $50.

Actually I was just in the shower wondering how long it would take for someone to bring up the money...

Originally posted by Ezekiel

Originally posted by Duzey
I just try to remember I came here to deny my ignorance, not other peoples.

That is probably the single most enlightening thing I have read all day =)

This is the best thing in this thread! Including everything I've said!

If every member would be accountable for denying our own ignorance and NOT ENCOURAGE it in others, ATS would be even better than it already is! There's no need to change people's minds or enlighten them. That's their job. Ours is to do our very best to educate ourselves and deny ignorance.

Originally posted by d1k
Since ATS did this three partner thing it's focus seems to be more of a money maker then anything else.

w0w...

niiice assumption (sarcasm)

i hope you carefully read SO's response...

Originally posted by savannah
When I first saw this headline I thougt it said:

"Ignorant people running this site"

I almosted freaked out. I couldn't understand how anyone would think that this site was run by ignorant people when it works so well. Also, I don't think that ignorant people are ruining this site unless you count the members that are always griping about things *cough- this thread - cough* . And then I usually just ignore them anyways.

Happy ATSing to everyone.

As a first time 'griper' I will assume that you are referring to other members that are 'always griping'.