Should Israel Have Nukes???

Originally posted by orangetom1999

I do not for one minute believe that this nation today called Israel has any Biblical right to this land. None. This is not the Israel of the Bible. Not possible.
I do however believe they have right to this land by the age old dictum of the victors get the spoils. They will have to fight to the end to keep what they have won.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Bravo, Bravo, you've captured my attention with that statement, please do explain how the Israel of today is not the Israel of the bible. Did I miss something here?? I thought Jews were Jews, you know, Gods chosen people?? You are right about the "spoils of war" dictum and in that they have every right to be where they are, but the part where you say they are not the Israel of the bible, how is it not possible???

israel already has nukes and no they should not

i love it when people justify israel to have nukes with their past records
iligaly occupying land (ignoring UN laws on occupation)

killing cuvilians
attacking its neigbours

a country like that needs to be kept on a leash.
not given the right to nukes.

if they start losing a fight they would use them.

THe_Sentinal,

Bravo, Bravo, you've captured my attention with that statement, please do explain how the Israel of today is not the Israel of the bible. Did I miss something here?? I thought Jews were Jews, you know, Gods chosen people?? You are right about the "spoils of war" dictum and in that they have every right to be where they are, but the part where you say they are not the Israel of the bible, how is it not possible???

The ancient word for them was Hebrews...not jews. Jews is more of a modern construct.

Also the religious doctrine they are claiming to be keeping is called the Law or the Law of Moses. The law given to Moses on Mt Sinai.

This Law required

A land
A priesthood
A sacrafice
A temple or in the early days a tabernacle.

A king was a later construct and not in the original package.

Notice that the priesthood sacrafice and temple are gone. It is not possible to carry out the Law they claim to be keeping. THey must be keeping another law..and hence another god. Not the God of Moses.

Notice that though they have the land back ...they dont have the temple mount. What an irony. The very mount they so desire will be thier death knell if they take it by the usual means. Talk about checks and balances. Wow!!

Let us assume for argument that they are ,sometime down the road, able to take the temple mount and rebuild the temple.

THe record which survives is of Jesus talking to a Samaratian woman. He tells her that the time is coming when they shall neither worship in this mountain or in Jerusalem. THe Samaritan custom and tradition was that god was worshiped in the mountains or a particular mountain. Jesus tells her ..not so ...the time is coming when God shall neither in that mountain nor in Jerusalem be worshiped.
The Samaritans were a very low class of people in the land at that time. This is why the apostles were astonished that Jesus was even talking to her much less telling her of his Father.
This Samaritan woman is one of the key Biblical indexes by which I know that todays Israel is a phoney construct of men.

Notice also what a testament actually is..a promise....a will and testament. The last will and tesatment. A testament is of effect by a certain event. The death of the testator. This is common law. The event which triggers or puts a testament into effect is the death of the testator. A person may change their testament or will as much as they like..but the one which is of effect is the last will and testament.

It is obvious that no one died under the Olde Testament. Also it is obvious to anyone thinking on this that part of what we think of as the New Testament is actually under the Olde Testament until the death of the testator...which puts the New Testament in effect. The death of the Nazarene put the New Testament into effect at that very moment. Until that moment it was still Olde Testament.

Most preachers I have ever heard do not like to teach this principle for some reason. They tend to avoid it and what it really means

What you have in current day Israel is a counterfit construction of men. It must be constantly supported by outside nations. Most of what we call Jews today in Israel are secular and not religious as in the Olde Testament. They are very pro Israel...just not religious in the olde ways. This too is carefully kept from most of the west for political reasons.
The devout religious factions among the Jews of this counterfit nation, Israel, are small in number but very powerful and influential. THey have the ear of every government.

Israel in the term used in the Bible as pertains to a New Testament people is not a physical people as in the people of the circumcision...but the Church. This is the New Testament Israel...of every kindred and tounge on the earth. New Testament circumcision is the circumcision of the heart not physical circumcision. Are there people in this New Testament group who are also Jews in the physical sense.?? You betcha!!. But they are not chosen on the basis of heir Jewishness. THey are chosen by God..for his purposes..not mens purposes.

This is how you know what that land is over there. A counterfit. It is also how I know so many of todays preachers in like manner are counterfitters and have a counterfit god. They are doing a good job fooling alot of people with this counterfit.

Now..once again...these people took this land....conquered it by force,kept it , and built it into the nation it is today. I have no grief with this by the ancient law of conquest. THe victors get the spoils. They have earned this but will have to fight to keep it. Their buisness not mine.

This post is also why I dont think this is the Israel of the Olde Testament...but a counterfit construction of men and mens wisdom. Someone somewhere has done a hellacious con job of passing it off as the same Israel of the Olde Testament times. It is not.

One more thing for you to carefully consider when watching history unfold since you will undboubtedly see this history occur again in your lifetime..."THe Victors get the spoils" Yes????
This is a very ancient dictum of war. Yes??

America is one of the few nations of which I know, dumb enough to go to war over and over, and not bring home any spoils. Only a nation as economically affluent as America can be so dumb as to go to war over and over yet not bring home any real spoils and still survive/continue on. Most nations would have long ago folded on such stupidity. Yet our leaders do it to us over and over and so few seem able to catch on to what is happening. It becomes obvious that we either lost these wars or are fighting for someone elses spoils..not necessarily an American someone else. This has been going on since at least WW1 if not before.
Think long and hard on this one while burying our finest blood ...no matter what "experts" are wont to tell you. It alludes to alot of what you see around you every day and what it actually is...in like manner as to how I describe the current nation of Israel.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 25-6-2007 by orangetom1999]

[edit on 25-6-2007 by orangetom1999]

America is one of the few nations of which I know, dumb enough to go to war over and over, and not bring home any spoils.

How do you think we got to be the richest nation on the planet, anyway?

Why do you think American oil companies, American banks, American arms manufacturers, American agro-combines, American media conglomerates, etc. dominate global markets?

It's not just our "can do spirit" LOL.

Originally posted by orangetom1999


The ancient word for them was Hebrews...not jews. Jews is more of a modern construct.



[edit on 25-6-2007 by orangetom1999]

I agree with this position.

Let us assume for argument that they are ,sometime down the road, able to take the temple mount and rebuild the temple.

this is a standing unfullfilled prophecy, but could be fullfilled very soon as I understand it, there is a sect of jews standing by, waiting to begin construction of a new temple as soon as the temple mount is retaken in some unforseen event which is probably about to unfold.

It is obvious that no one died under the Olde Testament

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement.

Also it is obvious to anyone thinking on this that part of what we think of as the New Testament is actually under the Olde Testament until the death of the testator...which puts the New Testament in effect. The death of the Nazarene put the New Testament into effect at that very moment. Until that moment it was still Olde Testament.

I also agree with your position here.

What you have in current day Israel is a counterfit construction of men. It must be constantly supported by outside nations. Most of what we call Jews today in Israel are secular and not religious as in the Olde Testament.

Are you saying that Hebrew blood lines mean nothing to God??

Israel in the term used in the Bible as pertains to a New Testament people is not a physical people as in the people of the circumcision...but the Church. This is the New Testament Israel...of every kindred and tounge on the earth. New Testament circumcision is the circumcision of the heart not physical circumcision. Are there people in this New Testament group who are also Jews in the physical sense.?? You betcha!!. But they are not chosen on the basis of heir Jewishness. THey are chosen by God..for his purposes..not mens purposes.

Here's the problem I see with your theology, in the book of revelations where God seals his sevants, you know, the 144,000, we see in this book that they are 12,000 of the twelve tribes of Israel, if these were not physical people but mearly chosen by God for his purposes as you say, then why would God go to all the trouble to represent the twelve tribes to begin with??? why even show them as representing the tribes of Israel if they are not chosen on the basis of thier Jewishness?? God even goes to the trouble of naming each tribe. I believe the Hebrew bloodlines mean more to God than we can fathom.

America is one of the few nations of which I know, dumb enough to go to war over and over, and not bring home any spoils. Only a nation as economically affluent as America can be so dumb as to go to war over and over yet not bring home any real spoils and still survive/continue on. Most nations would have long ago folded on such stupidity.

I agree with this too, we've been far to nice for our own good.

The Sentinal,

As to the "prophecy" of rebuilding the temple, I am aware that there are groups who want the temple rebuilt. I have been told that the stones/material are available, prebuilt, prenumbered, prestaged, ready for assembly. Sort of a shake and bake. A new priesthood has been selected etc, etc, etc. This too is a phoney baloney construct of men.
Remember what I said about the Olde Testament being in effect until the death of the Testator?? Before He died on the Cross he said " It is finished."
Rebuilding the temple and going back to the Olde Testament priesthood, sacrafices et al..is saying ..." It is not finished and we by our greatness are going to finish it." In otherwords it matters not what the Blood means or did on the cross..but we in our Jewishness will finish it. Not so..this is a counterfit human construct. It is His Blood which counts not Jewish or any other blood which counts.

This is also how I know that Jewish blood means nothing. It is the Blood shed on the Cross. This is also how human constructs and the traditions of men counterfit the Word. Both in the Olde and New Testaments this has been counterfitted by men. This has been the struggle ongoing from the begining between paganism and the Word.
THe Hebrews were seduced into pagan practices and incorporated many of them into the Law of Moses just as if they were the Law of Moses given on Mt Siani. It was never so. This is exactly the coutnerfit that many of the Christians are doing today. Like the Hebrews ..many of the Christians have been doing it so long they no longer know the difference.

IF it is Jewishness that is the determining factor...what difference does the New Testament make...none. THe blood line that counts is the Blood which washes Believers...not mans physical bloodline...understand? Believers are of every kindred and tounge on the face of the earth and all of them washed in His Blood..not the blood of sheep and bullocks etc etc. For He is the Lamb. Not mans artificial constructs.

THe Book of Revelation is metaphor not actual. As a believer I am not under the Olde Testament bondage. I have no desire for such. Nor the traditions of men.

The principle, both OLde and New Testament, is that God Chooses his people for his reasons/purposes..not the people choosing God. Historically when men choose God they always go into counterfit perversions. Chosen people dont choose ..they are chosen.

When men choose god/gods they build big buildings and edifices to men and mens glory and the organizations which follow. This is exactly the fingerprint of paganism. Big buildings and edifices and organizatons. This too is the record of history ...especially the nations which surrounded the Olde Israel. It is also a history carefully kept away from the knowlege and awareness of most of us. There are no instructions for a New Testament Church to build big buildings and edifices for which we see so often passing itself off as Christian. None. This is however clearly the Pagan fingerprint. THe Church is to meet and the Church goes home. The Church is never the building. It is the people..the Living organism..not the organization. This organization is that which the Lord hates...it is sometimes called nicolaitanism. The nicolaitans.

As to no one dying under the Olde Testament I misquoted here. What I mean is that no one died "for " the Olde Testament in the manner of the New Testament. This is obvious...especially when you know what a Testament is and the historical manner it is carried out and put into effect.

Remember also what was fortold in the Olde Testament...that God would make a people His people who were not of His People. This because of the stiffnecked rebellion and disobedience of the Hebrews.

We are getting away from the topic like of Israel's Nukes here with the exception that this is how I know that Nukes or not this todays Israel is a countefit construction of men for mens purposes. Including the fact that they have nukes.
These people today have the right to the land by the ancient laws of conquest. No problem here with me. They just dont have the land under Biblical auspicies.

As I recall the history in the early days of offereing the Jews a homeland..the original offer by the Ceicl Rhodes and that group was South Africa. The Jews turned this down. Ironic again dont you think?? Palestine was a offer coming out of the Balfour Declaration by way of Arthur Balfour... during WW1. This offer was recinded by a British White paper later on. This is also why the Jews never fully trusted British motivations and why they were fighting the British in Palestine after WW2. They knew this double dealing history of Britian and the Crown. Most of us outiders do not. It is kept from our general knowlege without some independent digging through history.

There is nothing holy today about the holy land. They can have it as far as I am concerned. Nothing there for me. It is intresting to me as a historical record..but holy it is not.

THe holy land today reminds me of Cancun, Mexico and all the offers I have had to go visit and vacation. Go to Cancun and step outside of the tourist places and it is a very differenct Mexico one sees...the real Mexico. Cancun is a artificial phony construct for the purposes of toursim. This is not the real Mexico.

The holy land is the same. Step back a few blocks outside of the tourist lanes and it is a different land. Not the one advertised in the tourist packages. Not intrested in this. I can see all the tourist places and read about them on line or in a library. Nothing new here. I never cared much for packaged tours. This too is why I have no intrest in artifical stuff like Bush Gardens and Disneyland. No thanks. This is no different from a shopping mall..a artifical construct. Neither do I have any use for these places.

Xmotex,

Our days as a great nation are numbered..if for no other reason than we are using a counterfit phoney fiat money system. The light which burns twice as bright, burns only half as long. Once again this posturing does not explain the lack of spoils. Only our ability to produce and die for the profits and investments of others. One need not be rocket material to put this together. It means our economic system and also our form of government has been hijacked as was the system in Ancient Israel.
Nothing new here.

One can tell this by the number of buisnesses which are investing anywhere than in America. It is a planned, scheduled desintegration of our economy. All the rising prices of goods you see are as much a result of the weaker dollar than any Greatness of our economy. It takes more weaker dollars to purchase the same things we had last week. This is why our property taxes et al are rising faster than our abilitiy to earn our moneys and will only continue at a accelerated rate. Local governments are aware of this but dare not tell the pubic.
Our days like todays Israel..are numbered.

Bodrul,

As to the UN having any credibility..no thanks. They are as phoney as Israel. As phoney as our government hiding the real nature of our buisness in the world. Our boot lacky status.

This bunch of yokels in the UN can hardly clean up thier own dirty laundry and they are going to run the world?? Not happening. The UN is a blight on the city of New York and has burdened them for years with the excesses of these diplomats and their immunities. The UN needs to move out of New York and relocate to somewhere like Canada or Asia...Australia, New Zealand etc.

I give the UN Zero credibility in anything. What happened in Yugoslavia and continues to happen in Africa is textbook of the UN's lack of credibility to deal with anything even thier excesses. The UN needs to get out of this country and stop dragging around on our breast.

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 26-6-2007 by orangetom1999]

[edit on 26-6-2007 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by the_sentinal
jordanian king abdullah said his country is interested in a nuclear-free middle east

I'm sure he is. The only thing keeping Israel alive is the fact that it's nuclear. Get rid of Israel's nukes and the Islamics will have a huge party as they take over Israel and slaughter the Israelites.

(and then what is left for them to turn their hate on? Oh, that's right - US!)

Should Israel Have Nukes???

Yes. They have them for defensive purposes. They have shown remarkable restraint in not using them. Absolutely they should be able to keep their nukes.

Originally posted by bodrul
iif they start losing a fight they would use them.

So what? The knowledge that Israel would nuke whoever destroys it is the only thing keeping the Islamics from destroying it now.

Israel has a right to defend itself. Holding nukes accomplishes that.


[edit on 6/26/2007 by FlyersFan]

Whether they deserve the land or not is an altogether different matter.
Its irrelevant.. that point of view is always irrelevant until someone makes it relevant and that someone has the brute force to 'highlight' the relevance.

So maybe OT1999 might be a little crude in saying that the Israel 'claim' is baseless, but the bottomline is correct:

All claims are useless unless to have the teeth to back them up.
Or someone else is lending you teeth to back the claims up.


OT1999,

Yes I do believe that the Arab states in 1973 could have overwhelmed the Israelis if the proficiency/skill differential between the two was not so great.
I do believe that the technological levels on both sides (esp Eqypt) were quite equal with the Eqyptians actually having a favorable SAM posture.
The F-4 phantoms that you saw moved from Iceland(and other a/c like the Mirage III) IMO were not superior to the MiG-21s that the Arabs had just received.
I may be biased, but I believe the MiG-21 to be a better a/c.
I might even go as far in saying that if there was a more proficient and 'driven' military in place of the Arabs, with the same technology, then it would have been a very different outcome.

So if the Egyptians et al had actually fared well with their equipment, then then any amount of replenishment for Israel from the US would not have been enough to turn the tide in Israel's favour.
The Russians would have continued to correspondingly resupply the Arabs in confidence that their equipment was in good hands.
Eventually, I feel that Israel would have still been overrun, thus leading to a nuclear showdown.

It is the shocking turn of events that renewed Israeli faith in their own conventional capabilities and thus prevented Nuclear War.

If Israel had gone nuclear, it would've been the end of them.
I don't know their stockpile at the time and what the release strategy was(all-out or graduated:depending on Arab/International response), but things would've got very messy.

Anybody have ideas about their nuclear release strategy at the time?
I'm very curious to know that.

Daedalus3,

I pretty much agree with your post with one exception.

The Israelis know that in such a case thier backs are to the wall with no where to go. They will perish on land or be pushed into the sea. This means that in such a case it is all or nothing. This is not a position those opposing them view as the case for the Arab states. This puts a very different case in point for the ferocity of what is going to happen.

THe Israelis "WILL" push the button in the end. Of this I have no doubt. It is just a matter of when not if. Most of my fellow Americans are so dumb and secure behind thier television sets, their steering wheels of their cars, and thier deceitful politicians they havent a clue. They are asleep.

As to the merits and demerits of the MIG 21...I will grant you that in those days the MIG 21 was quite an airplane. It is however and in the end basic pilot skills which often determine the outcome. This has been evidenced over and over in a number of engagements since those days.
Israeli pilots too know that in the end it will be all or nothing. I do not believe the Arab nations/pilots fully understand what this means.

I am not actually sure many American pilots completely know what this means. Asleep once again.

I am not saying that the quality of the airplane is not important ..not at all..but in the end pilot skills count for just as much if not more.

Also I do not state that the Israelis claims are baseless...just that the Biblical claims are baseless. The right of conquest is not. It is still valid..thought places like the UN will tend to debate this ..forever!!

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

[edit on 26-6-2007 by orangetom1999]

[edit on 26-6-2007 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
So what? The knowledge that Israel would nuke whoever destroys it is the only thing keeping the Islamics from destroying it now.

Israel has a right to defend itself. Holding nukes accomplishes that.


[edit on 6/26/2007 by FlyersFan]

they have a right to defend them
wont argue with someone defending them selves and last time checked Israels actions were always offencive. well they kill plenty of cuvilians with conventional weapons so killing a couple thousend-million with nukes i wouldnt put it past them.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Holding nukes accomplishes that.


[edit on 6/26/2007 by FlyersFan]

in that case everyone should have nukes
it would stop the US and israel corssing their boarders into other countries

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Daedalus3,

I pretty much agree with your post with one exception.
....

THe Israelis "WILL" push the button in the end. Of this I have no doubt. It is just a matter of when not if. Most of my fellow Americans are so dumb and secure behind thier television sets, their steering wheels of their cars, and thier deceitful politicians they havent a clue. They are asleep.

Thats quite a grim outlook on things in the ME you have there.
I sure hope it doesn't turn out that way!
And I don't think that it will turn out so bad.After all, people want to live..



And yes the proficiency differential is what has pulled Israel through all these wars.
Otherwise it would've been over for them a long time ago.

Bodrul,

I too dont have a problem with someone defending themselves.

I said in a earlier post that most Americans are asleep at the wheel and dont have any idea how the concepts of honor or even "victimization " work in other nations. Americans tend to think that our way of doing things and having values is the same everywhere ...it is not. Some of us can be very dumb about many things..even American things or events.

I know enough history to understand that both the Jews and Arabs can be bloodthirsty when they so desire. This is not new news to me. I also know that the arabs when not killing each other in vendettas or ancient tribal feuds are killing or speaking out on other nations and enemys. I am not impressed with this manner of doing buisness. This is obvious to any American who can see past their steering wheels and television sets ..which is not many of us anymore.

The Jews have a long history of killing too but what I want you to consider in your version of "victimhood" is what would happen if the Israel of today took the gloves off and fought bareknuckled ...no restraints? Ever thought about it this way? I have!! What would happen if the Israelis pulled out the stops?? I am aware that for most of the Arab nations surrounding todays Israel that they already have pulled out the stops.

I feel the same about America...when it fights ...there are rules in which we try to follow. What would happen if the rules are removed?? That is our biggest problem in sending out our military. Most of the world knows that our military are restrained by certain rules and proceedures of which they are not.

Many people posting on ATS forums use the "victim dictum" when describing the fight between the Arabs and Israel or even other issues.. I dont buy it when refering to both sides. No victims here. They need to finish it or drop it. THe victim dictum is not popular with me. Both sides here will kill civilians when needed.

Also in case you dont understand what is coming ...killing civilians is going to come about big time. IN up and coming wars the new paradim or template will be killing of civilians. Once again most Americans are asleep at the wheel on this. You would think 9/11 would have awoken most Americans...not so. Most Americans are still discussing very important stuff like what is happening to Paris Hilton. Also this civilian killing template has been going on since WW1 but will accelerate in the future.

I am not pro Israel..nor am I pro Arab. I have no intrest in this fight. THese two groups of people need to finish it or drop it and learn to work out thier differences using peaceful means.

Which leads me to Daedalus3 and his comment.

Daedalus, I dont mean to be so grim. I just dont see any way for these two groups to solve thier differences. There are not enough cool reasonable heads among the leadership of boths sides to "Cool It." Also sooner or later just by being outpopulated ,Israel will find themselves with their backs to the wall.
The only way I see them working together is if they have an common enemy they both fear more than each other.

Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom

I'm sorry to be a killjoy but this is getting awfullu philosophical.
I had a couple of really interesting questions in my previous post.
Quoting myself:

Originally posted by Daedalus3
If Israel had gone nuclear, it would've been the end of them.
I don't know their stockpile at the time and what the release strategy was(all-out or graduated:depending on Arab/International response), but things would've got very messy.

Anybody have ideas about their nuclear release strategy at the time?
I'm very curious to know that.

I think it will really interesting to run a simulation of sorts on the Yom Kippur war and that what-would-have-beens if Israel had gone nuclear.
You know those old-school sims we used to have over here on the forum?

Originally posted by the_sentinal
my question is should israel have nukes?? because without them i believe they would be overthrown in a instant....so what's the answer??

www.ynetnews.com...

Overthrown in an instant.... By whom?

Israel has repelled the invading intolerant hoards of arabs from multiple countries more then once and has expanded its border each time...

So how in the world would they be overthrown in an instant considering they have grown stronger while the rest of the region remains backwards.

Originally posted by bodrul
i love it when people justify israel to have nukes with their past records
iligaly occupying land (ignoring UN laws on occupation)

killing cuvilians
attacking its neigbours

a country like that needs to be kept on a leash.
not given the right to nukes.

if they start losing a fight they would use them.

UN laws... Please what a joke, the UN can't enforce its rules in its own house never mind foreign lands. Never mind if those laws just.

As for attacking and killing... How many time have the arabs tried to destroy israel ? Which group of people is constantly sending bombers to attack the others civilians even right after treaties are signed.... Thats right the arabs soooo please...

Israel made peace with egypt and has kept its word. The palestinians have no such record of accomplishments.

Israel if it wanted to it could march right through palestine and massacare everyone with impunity if it wanted to. But it doesn't where as the government, if you can call it that, of palestine has openly expressed its plans for genocide and on a daily basis is trying to implement such plans, of course they are better at genocide of their own people then Israelis.

Its more like the tribal savages of the middle east need to be on a short leash rather then israel the only functioning democracy in the middle east which by the way has over one million arab citizens... SO much for israel being intolerant.

WE never should have broken star trek's prime directive and given technology to such a primitive people. They wouldn't even know about oil or how to extract it without the west.

Did you notice that when israel leaves occupied areas terrorists and rockets start attacking israel from those areas... I would occupy those places too if the sovereign government did nothing to stop attacks from those areas..



[edit on 27-6-2007 by American Madman]

Originally posted by waynos
Hmmm, 'should Israel have nukes'?

Dropped on it, maybe.

I wouldn't give them the s*** off the bottom of my shoe, Reprehensible country.

You'd think after the suffering of their people during the War at the hands of the Nazi's they'd be the last country to go round dishing it out in the name of 'defence'.

Two faced liars that they are, of course families picnicing on a beach are a threat to national security aren't they? Tossers.

[edit on 22-6-2006 by waynos]

Have you been there to judge?

I think the nazi experience is the only reason the palestinians still exist. Otherwise israel could pave over them in a heartbeat.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
How did Israeil show great restraint against Sadame, they were ordered by America not to do anything, and a nuclear strike would of been completely over the top and wrong. Israeil obviously needs nukes for it`s protection but why is it there in the first place? becasue they stole the country from the Palestinians whatever way you lok at it.

Stole? That is a very subjective term... From what I understand most of the sand box over there is full of roaming tribes. The only governments/nations so to speak were set up for them. The only ones that function and help the people are those aligned with the US and have ties to israel.

The rule of law in that region is that of force. Seems to me they followed the laws over there and have taken an undeveloped wasteland and have forged a nation which includes over a million arabs.

As for the palestinians, there is no such thing. They are all refugees from other nations who kicked them out. The arabs who left israel left of there own free will.

Had Israel gone nuclear against the Arabs in 1973, they would have been nuked in turn by the Russians. And they knew it, too.

As for the Nazis, there would have almost certainly been no Israel if it hadn't been for the Nazis. Similarly if the US hadn't been refusing asylum and sending ships of Jewish refugees back to Europe to be gassed, there probably wouldn't be an Israel either.

Originally posted by American Madman
Stole? That is a very subjective term... From what I understand most of the sand box over there is full of roaming tribes. The only governments/nations so to speak were set up for them. The only ones that function and help the people are those aligned with the US and have ties to israel.

The rule of law in that region is that of force. Seems to me they followed the laws over there and have taken an undeveloped wasteland and have forged a nation which includes over a million arabs.

As for the palestinians, there is no such thing. They are all refugees from other nations who kicked them out. The arabs who left israel left of there own free will.

What a steaming pile...

The people who lived in Palestine prior to 1948, the Palestinians, didn't leave "of their own free will", they left at gunpoint in a massive act of ethnic cleansing.

Your argument is basically that the Israelis stole the land fair & square