Wait a minute, Regenmacher, I strongly disagree. I don't see anything in Hamburglar's post that would give you leeway to claim the bolded statement from his previous post you quote is not true. In fact, he reiterated his father and his sister's positions in this area of expertise in the post you allude to in this thread. If anything, the bolded statement you have in your quote supports Hamburglar's position of irritation. The finding in New Jersey is of one of the "other strains of avian flu" to which Hamburglar states he, and his family members, hope helps them have immunity to H5N1 if they are ever exposed.

And sofi does take things that are either false or severely misused to support her topics of interest or her theories. And she rarely listens to anyone that tries to point out the problems in the statements she makes. I don't respond to her posts anymore because she tends to make outlandish accusations against members who do dissent or try to show the errors in her theories...and she's done it to me. She will also tend to try to claim people are trying to shut her up. Well, seven pages of her going on about a statistic that was never accurate should prove that wrong!

You can't pull a lot of 12 birds, 11 of which died, from a population of infected birds and then say the virus has a 91% mortality rate and not expect some one who actually understands statistics to call you on it. It would have been just as legitimate an argument to just ignore the 1 bird out of 12 that made it and claim 100% mortality rate. Long story short - it's wrong.

Hamburglar's words may have been harsh, but they weren't prattle - no more so than sofi's. And I don't see any reason for you to insinuate he's lying about anything simply because he has called the premise of this thread's original article misleading. It is. At the very least it's hyperbole. Out in the real world this would be considered lying with statistics.

[edit on 5-2-2006 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall
Wait a minute, Regenmacher, I strongly disagree.

Then you have failed to see that all banter was in response to a single line "Thus it begins....". The response facade to Loam was really a veiled attack against Sofi and laced with bogus exaggerations, which is also blantant hypocrisy.

So maybe I should start calling you whacked out and an obfuscating person who posts threads of garbage in all my responses to others, and then you can tell me how marvelous it is.

Any low-pathogenic strain can develop into a deadly strain if it stays in the area long enough and you better damn well believe its a major concern, whether it's a mild strain of avian flu or not.

Keep it in the now...were one line means: don't have a cow.



[edit on 2-5-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Any low-pathogenic strain can develop into a deadly strain if it stays in the area long enough and you better damn well believe its a major concern, whether it's a mild strain of avian flu or not.

Any low-pathogenic strain can also develop immunity in the animals/people infected by it...to where they would have a better chance of surviving a more virulent strain. In fact, I venture to guess the probability of one of these outcomes versus the other is most likely quite even.

My question is: Where is the worth in spinning the negative hyperbole on a situation? If we are trying to keep awareness of the H5N1 threat (which is real) it behooves us to NOT desensitize those around us by twisting something to an extreme negative (i.e. whipping of fear over something that doesn't warrant it). We run the risk of being ignored when the real bird hits the real fan.

Originally posted by Valhall
In fact, I venture to guess the probability of one of these outcomes versus the other is most likely quite even.

My question is: Where is the worth in spinning the negative hyperbole on a situation?

Quite even is worse then Russian roulette and few are foolhardy enough to play that game.

The hit count on the thread says ignoring bird flu isn't a problem either and it's quite a popular thread. I am not desensitized by reading, are you? Polls say the majority is not desensitized about bird flu either. So do you have telelpathic abilities that enable you to speak for all others or are just making up assumptions about this thread, cause it assauges your ego?

America loves big drama and, shock&awe or they lose interest fast. Considering the forum is about "conspiracies" you think they all are coming here for positive facts and happy news? To conclude avian flu is being spun into a hyperbole, that would also imply you have a crystal ball and can see into the future. My advice is don't buy Tyson stock and your crystal ball is broken.

Speculation is what it all about..not stroking the ego or trying to rationalize judgment calls.



[edit on 2-5-2006 by Regenmacher]

No, I don't imply anything. I'm outright stating the headline of this article is FALSE, MISLEADING of the facts, HYPERBOLIC to the extreme and - for this ATS member - EMBARRASSING. Has been from day one.

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by Valhall
Wait a minute, Regenmacher, I strongly disagree.

Then you have failed to see that all banter was in response to a single line "Thus it begins....". The response facade to Loam was really a veiled attack against Sofi and laced with bogus exaggerations, which is also blantant hypocrisy.

First, thanks, Valhall. I appreciate that you get what I’m saying, and I appreciate your help in saying it.

Next, Regenmacher, congrats on your WATS.

Now the meat…What difference does it make if loam’s post was 1 line or 13,000 lines? The fact remains that a non-H5N1 strain in N.J. is not the bird flu we should be worrying about. It is certainly not the one that the news has us all worried about. It is certainly not the one that may go pandemic anytime in the near (or likely distant) future.

The fact remains that loam posted a link to an article that is inconsistent with a rational approach to H5N1, and completely consistent with an irrational, catch-all approach to fear-mongering and causing public panic. It is completely consistent with another member’s taking any news source, no matter how irrelevant, and posting it as some sort of “proof” that we are all going to die tomorrow from prion-induced bird flu. This sort of posting should be upbraided as soon as possible.

The fact remains that this article in no way supports a conclusion of “Thus it begins.” Instead, its first line states that it is not H5N1. That kind of post should be taken to task. You got an award for, ostensibly, critical thinking, so this shouldn’t be a big leap for you.

And, the fact remains that I didn’t think my “attack” against soficrow was all that veiled. I’ll try to make it more obvious in the future. However, that was secondary to my concern that loam was going down the same road.

Finally, I’m not sure what “bogus exaggerations” I made, but I’d love for you to let me know…

Originally posted by Regenmacher
So maybe I should start calling you whacked out and an obfuscating person who posts threads of garbage in all my responses to others, and then you can tell me how marvelous it is.

Perhaps you should, if it will make you feel like you’ve accomplished something. But, would you be correct? At the end of it all, could you stand back and say, “I was right”? I doubt it. I am quite clear in my assertions, and do my best to back them up wherever possible. I don’t believe that I try to hijack my own threads and the threads of others and turn them into the same old thread about a single topic (prions/chronic disease, in this case). And, I think that I’ve been pretty consistent in my statements on this situation, as I know Valhall will probably remember.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Any low-pathogenic strain can develop into a deadly strain if it stays in the area long enough and you better damn well believe its a major concern, whether it's a mild strain of avian flu or not.

Sure, Regenmacher, which is why we have airborne AIDS in Africa and common colds that kill millions a day. Except wait a minute, we don’t have those things. Gee could it be that your oversimplification is completely inaccurate?

Face facts man. The bird flu found in N.J. is no threat to us whatsoever. Even the article says so. What it doesn’t say is why it should even exist as an article at all. I think it is to scare people. Get them to buy more papers, buy more drugs, and make the most money off what may or may not be a pandemic. Or, it’s just bored reporters with nothing else to report on.

Bottom line, that flu in N.J. is not a “major concern” at all. You are wrong. I’m sorry, but it is true. That flu is no more a concern than the scratchy throat you had last week or the cold you got over the winter. Even less, because the chances of you or any other person catching it are even lower.

So why do you have a problem with me setting the record straight?

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Well if it's so embarassing and all that other negative rot, then why are you continually posting in and reading the thread? That would indicate your masochistic, if you really believed in what you say.

Woops! Now you did the same thing to me you did to Hamburglar. See - I HAVEN'T BEEN POSTING IN IT! It wasn't until you insinuated Hamburglar was lying - JUST BECAUSE HE CALLED A SPADE A SPADE I GUESS - that I got involved.

Me thinks you just want to fight and argue for those ambiguous ego points and it really doesn't matter what the subject is, cause deep down the thread makes your day!

And me thinks the series of events that have led to this back and forth was initiated with you thinking you knew something you didn't. Your mental acrobatics at trying to formulate some case against Hamburglar weren't impressive - neither are the ones you are now engaged in against me. I do note - RATHER IRONICALLY - that in this thread is evidence of birds with like feathers running together - with a mortality rate of 91% no less. How interesting at the similar tactics.

Don't judge a thread by it's title either and anyone with a lick of sense can see how the title was derived. So did you pay that quarter to see the two headed bearded lady?

EXACTLY - anyone with a lick of sense can see EXACTLY how the title was derived - that would be the part that causes some of us heartburn. The headline is free - and the ignore button won't make it go away - and come to find out she was standing on her head...

she didn't even have a beard. We all tried to look the other way, it was too late.

Originally posted by Valhall
And me thinks the series of events that have led to this back and forth was initiated with you thinking you knew something you didn't. Your mental acrobatics at trying to formulate some case against Hamburglar weren't impressive - neither are the ones you are now engaged in against me.

Nothing is impressive about pointing out abusive negative behavior, since it's more a pitiful display of civility than anything else. So is defending or condoning abusive behavior.

Originally posted by Valhall
EXACTLY - anyone with a lick of sense can see EXACTLY how the title was derived - that would be the part that causes some of us heartburn. The headline is free - and the ignore button won't make it go away

I would suggest you stay away from libraries, media stands and news racks if titles give you heartburn. That and your apt to get arrested for disorderly conduct, if you act on your emotions in those public places. That and you look real silly, like now.

The greatest threat presented by birds is the "chicken little syndrome" which is nothing more than an organized attempt to peddle fear. Folks, the sky is not falling and the likelyhood of you contracting "avian flu" lies somewhere between slim and none. AIDS, SARS, Ebola, West Nile, Anthrax and like have been used in the past to infect people with "chicken little syndrome" and so it is with "avian flu".

I'd like to see this thread evolve back to some type of discussion about issues related to H5N1, the reality, the hype, and especially the facts.

Personality disputes will end, beginning with this post. No exceptions.