Flight 93 was shot down over Pennsylvania, and this is the biggest 9/11 cover up of them all.

Hopefully all is nto lost, it does also say:

Noting that the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals has ordered trial evidence made public, she said relatives of Flight 93 victims would have until next Tuesday to advise her whether they object to general release of the material.

Release to follow submission into evidence
She said if no family members object, she will release the material to the general public the day after it is submitted into evidence. No date was set for that.
www.msnbc.msn.com...

So it looks like it may be down to the families involved...

Yes, but this is the historical record of one of the most important events in the past century's U.S. history. The families should not have any ability to prevent it's disclosure to the public. They do not have ownership rights of this tape, nor do their personal feelings have any weight in the importance of this record to the U.S. public.

That's a B.S. escape clause as far as I'm concerned.

[edit on 4-6-2006 by Valhall]

Well, get ahold of the families and ASK them. Tell them what is at stake. How hard can that be?

For what it's worth (tuppence?) just found a pretty decent pic of an EC-130E. Discussion kinda moved away from that but here it is.

www.strategypage.com...

hope link works

9/11 was used as direct justification for the war in Afghanistan, and we all know damned well that it was used for Iraq too, whether anyone came right out and said it or not.

9/11 influenced many more lives than just those who lost family members in the immediate tragedy. Soldiers and civilians both continue to die in foreign nations to this day as a result of those events. Additionally, federal laws were passed in regards to the event (ie PATRIOT Act) and other national changes, such as the addition of the Department of Homeland Security, were made to our nation. Wiretapping and this whole "War on Terror" were a result of 9/11 taking place.

All of these things affect all of us; our whole country, its policies, our soldiers and who's listening in on us and our legal rights for searches and seizures and all.

We need the full story. We need to know exactly what happened on that day down to every last detail. We need to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a legitimate reason (if there is a such thing) for the death of every single individual in the wars we are conducting at this moment, as well as the changes in our civil liberties and other domestic issues.

9/11 affected all of us, and we all deserve to know everything possible so as to pass fair judgment upon how our government has responded to those events.

Originally posted by Valhall
Yes, but this is the historical record of one of the most important events in the past century's U.S. history. The families should not have any ability to prevent it's disclosure to the public. They do not have ownership rights of this tape, nor do their personal feelings have any weight in the importance of this record to the U.S. public.

That's a B.S. escape clause as far as I'm concerned.

[edit on 4-6-2006 by Valhall]

Just because a bunch of internet 9/11 conspiracy theorists think the whole thing was a government orchestrated plot?

Originally posted by Matyas

Well, get ahold of the families and ASK them. Tell them what is at stake. How hard can that be?

Why? There is no reason to ask the families. This should be public record. They should have no say in this.

The decision to disclose, no.

To talk to them, to ask what happened, to peice together the story from all those different viewpoints, yes.

To educate them as to what is at stake, to share different insights, and to show that people out here actually care, yes.

And to prove once again that it is we the people who will bring accountability to our leadership.

I am amazed and angry at the amount of people that still are completely unaware that they have been lied to. They are so wrapped up in their personal lives that they don't have time to comprehend the seriousness of what took place on 9/11/01.

I am also angry at the gatekeepers, you know who you are, that will defend the official story, no matter how ridiculous it is. What do they keep saying? Theres no proof, no evidence to suspect conspiracy, well, what they mean is there is NOTHING outside of a full and complete confession by the 'evil-doers' that will be sufficient to them.

And if they are so concerned with 'proof' how is it that bin Laden was responsible? Where is that proof? The fake video we found in Afghanistan? A 7 year old grammar school drop out could make that out to be a fake.

19 hijackers with boxcutters? How did we arrive at that so quickly? Many of those 19 are still alive. The REAL conspiracy theory is the official story. NONE of the 'official story' passes ANY muster at all.

The WTC towers fell due to fire is the official story, yet they fell at near free fall speed, with no resistance. Yet you can see material ejected sideways with great force. What caused that? Floors pancaking on top of eachother? If thats the case, that would mean there is serious resistance, would it not? If there is serious resistance for each floor on the way down, explain the speed of collapse to me again. 10 floors per SECOND, does that imply resistance to you?

Get past your fear of the real truth, its not easy I will admit. It was very painful for me when I finally awoke from my blind patriotism. It is not too late to make America free again.

fm258, the reason why not everyone's subscribed to the crackpot 9/11 theories, is mainly due to the fact there's no solid evidence to back up the 9/11 conspiracy theories. There are so many soft-headed people out there amongst the public, like yourself, that nowadays you can propose something on a forum, like this one, and half an hour later thousands of other people (with lots of time on their hands) will have subscribed to it.

99.9% of them don't take the time to do any actual research of their own; they just take what other people have said at face value and, like a dog with a bone, stick with it promote it on forms like this one.

fm258, do you cut and past the same post in all of these threads? I could swear I have read this before?

Do you have any thoughts on Flight 93?

well, they definitely did not release the final three minutes:

flight 93 transcript

it ends at 10:03:09.

Originally posted by snafu7700
well, they definitely did not release the final three minutes:

flight 93 transcript

it ends at 10:03:09.

No they didn't. And the judge's reasoning on it is very disappointing. Three families protested the motion to release the audio to the public to protect their loved one and their privacy. I never realized a dead person had a right to privacy, or that the right of their privacy while they were living is some type of inherited right by the surviving family. I hope this judge's decision will be over-ruled.

I think we can eliminate the power grid failure and the landline failure from points of possible evidence pointing to something (like an EMP) knocking out the grid. In this pic



I THINK I can see highline wires running along the road (look to the right bottom of the pic). If that is highline wires, then they appear to be gone due to the impact explosion. In rural areas (like where I live) the telephone lines will typical run right along the same path as the electric lines, so, with this being a rural area, one could assume that if the electric lines were taken out, the telephone lines would be also.

Originally posted by Valhall
I think we can eliminate the power grid failure and the landline failure from points of possible evidence pointing to something (like an EMP) knocking out the grid.

I have to agree with you Val about the landlines and power lines, but what knocked out the cell phone system. As I have stated previously my brother-in-law's brother Tim lives with in sight of the crash and he told me that his cell phone wouldn't work from his house for almost two weeks after the crash, until the cell equipment was replaced.

My missus pointed out that without actually hearing it, looking at the end of the transcript they may have been hit by a missile coincidently at the same time that the passengers were trying to get in. If you read it with that in mind you'll see it is actually quite difficult to tell for certain without hearing it, even though that may not be crystal clear still, we just assume it's all from the struggle because that's what we're told. The tragic thing is the plane may have been shot practically at the same time as the passengers were getting into the cockpit.

While I feel for the familes, I think it's very wrong that it is not in the public domain considering the severity of the incident. I thought our civilisation promoted an open forum for collaboration.. Oh no wait a minute, I think that was dream, or maybe a film..

reply to post by Valhall


Okay so this post freaked me out! I have a friend, Mike Larson (Semi dated when we were kids) who is a member of the Compass Call aircraft. I read the above article and remember him mentioning 9/11 and where he was! From what I remember, he was in the D.C. or Boston area and was suppose to do some training or airshow (it has been 7 years-so this is my best recolection) and he never got into any details except that they didn't go due to the attacks on the towers. The fact that his plane was there on that very day it highly suspicious, since he is posted in Arizona!

Mike has always kept fairly quiet about what he does. He would tell us he was a cook on the plane (we knew he was joking), and when pressed he simply said "it was over our heads and couldn't be explained in a manner which we would understand, but ultimately it wasn't that exciting." I have been in and out of touch with him for the past few years, but believe he still is there. I am positive he flies with that aircaft because I went to an airshow in Nebraska where he was giving tours of it. He has been with it for years, and his job is something like electrical intelligence.

I did a google search on him and found his myspace page. It is: www.myspace.com/mlarson08. He is still listed as living in Tucson. I am really freaked that he could be connected with something like this! I am not sure it I could ever speak with him again. He will see right through me now.

reply to post by Valhall


Okay so this post freaked me out! I have a friend, Mike Larson (Semi dated when we were kids) who is a member of the Compass Call aircraft. I read the above article and remember him mentioning 9/11 and where he was! From what I remember, he was in the D.C. or Boston area and was suppose to do some training or airshow (it has been 7 years-so this is my best recolection) and he never got into any details except that they didn't go due to the attacks on the towers. The fact that his plane was there on that very day it highly suspicious, since he is posted in Arizona!

Mike has always kept fairly quiet about what he does. He would tell us he was a cook on the plane (we knew he was joking), and when pressed he simply said "it was over our heads and couldn't be explained in a manner which we would understand, but ultimately it wasn't that exciting." I have been in and out of touch with him for the past few years, but believe he still is there. I am positive he flies with that aircaft because I went to an airshow in Nebraska where he was giving tours of it. He has been with it for years, and his job is something like electrical intelligence.

I did a google search on him and found his myspace page. It is: www.myspace.com/mlarson08. He is still listed as living in Tucson. I am really freaked that he could be connected with something like this! I am not sure it I could ever speak with him again. He will see right through me now.

reply to post by esdad71


I live out near where the plane went down its like 30 minutes away, if you go to the crash scene its basically a field if you look out into the field it's just a huge crater which supports the government shot it down it almost kind of looks like a hill, and why would the government pay off the people of Shanksville with new cars and give them money to wave off their rights to talk about what happened if nothing really happened so the goverment knows something happened

Originally posted by JIMC5499
I have to agree with you Val about the landlines and power lines, but what knocked out the cell phone system.

As stated by a military witness, he believed a ECM pod might have been used due to lights flickering and the phones and power lines.

I was standing on a rooftop within 2 miles of Wright Patterson AFB on 911. I remember everyone on my crew coming down off the roof to listen to my old truck radio and when the second tower fell, we all decided to make a short day of it. Then the Pentagon got hit. Right then and there I told my guys: "go home, load up on fuel and ammo. Listen fellas, you hear that?" ...and I had eight puzzled faces staring back at me in silence.... SILENCE....
We were two miles from the US central maintenance hub for the entire Air Force and not a single plane was in the air...
This was immediately known by all present that we were under attack before any announcement of that fact was made. We didn't question the obvious.

Fact 1: All planes were ordered grounded before Flight 93 was even a publicly known incident.
Fact 2: Eight F22 Raptors were scrambled from Wright Patterson Air Force Base in four sets of two. After 30 minutes of silence, we went back up on the roof to load tools and watched these planes outrun their own sound by at least a mile while no more than 1500 feet off the ground heading East. Awesome ground shaking sight.
Fact 3: No other planes flew in or out of WPAFB for at least an hour after the pentagon got hit. When we all left the jobsite, we watched the sky all the way home.

QUESTION: Why would you ground all flights across the country and scramble intercept fighter jets if you were not prepared to shoot down non compliant airliners that had diverted from their course?

ANSWER: We didn't question the obvious.

I am certain that the Government shot down that plane, but, at the same time, I am perfectly alright with letting people (especially the families) believe that their Sons and Daughters were true heroes and would have done the same thing those pilots did. I am also agreeing with the premise that none is going to want to be known as the guy who shot down or ordered that plane and its passengers destroyed. Its illegal to publicize a soldiers actions under orders in the line of duty and my gut tells me that our Government or domestic malcontents are not the ONLY people on Earth who know how to make or use thermite, so, my "conspiracy theory" outrage ends with the presumption that terrorist did in fact hijack planes that may have been carrying thermite (Lots of it) and that we were in fact caught off guard. I think the reaction to flight 93 discovery came down to minutes of decision and reaction and that the call was made by either Cheney or Rumsfield. There are always standing orders in place for scenarios like this, so, the white plane nobody wants to admit was in the area was probably a Navy Predator or FA 18.
The black smoke cloud over the farmhouse in Shanksville PA is obviously from a prematurely snuffed engine and a bad fuel burn... if it were from jet fuel on impact, there would have been a clear column rising from impact that lasted several minutes. Obviously the plane had enough fuel to make it to DC, so, the flames would have burned for a while unless there was a massive mid air fuel dump of some sort (Ruptured engine?).
The crash itself was measure on a seismograph, so the timeline can be nailed down. Wreckage should still be present in the dirt at the crash site that can be picked up with metal detectors, magnometers, spectragraph etc etc... but debunking the farm photo and the black cloud (Judging from the size of the cloud) leaves me to believe that a massive explosion dispersed alot of unspent fuel mid-air.
Anybody that doesn't believe there is a cover up to some degree going on here with the flight 93 incident has got to be the product of sheep farm beastiality. "WHY" is the big question. We get there with "how" and by "whom"...
Rumsfield obviously knew about it. If not after the fact. That "Freudian slip" nailed him and it fits right in with the bit about him wanting to resign etc etc... Cheney defends standing order. Bin Laden accepts responsibility.