POLITICS: Senate Approves Renewal of Patriot Act

are you not reading what im trying to say? im telling you that it doesnt matter what its like now, what does matter is what it will be like in 10 or 15 years when the easily influential kids of now will be so insecure and scared of everyone around them. its not about now, its about the effects its having on our generation that we need to worry about. whether it makes you paranoid really doesnt matter, its about whether its creating a mindset for the future generation to fear other people they meet. your talkin about the immediate outcome im talkin about the long term effects.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I prefer to speak my mind and my heart and suffer the consequences.

How brave and noble of you.

In supporting the powers-that-be it is very easy for you to ride your high horse, because you are secure in knowing that the agents of the government will not come and kick down your door for supporting their actions. However many of us that do not share your unbridled support of the so called "patriot act", did not have that same security prior to it's passage and we are even less secure due it's passage.

At least my thoughts can be free for the time being, but I have no doubt that as technology advances that "patriot act V" will contain provisions for warrantless searches of the mind. And it will pass by an overwhelming margin also, as a brain dead population chants, "PATRIOT ACT V, NATIONAL SECURITY".

Since I am in no hurry to be a guest at a government detention camp, I'll just leave it at that and avoid my incarceration as an "enemy combatant" until homeland security can read my mind.
.

[edit on 4-3-2006 by df1]

How soon people forget history. Anyone remember the Reichstag? This is where the Nazi's set fire to a government building and blamed it on the communists. They used fear to control and manipulate the population. Thus bringing in their reign of terror. When they shouldn't have feared the communists but themselves. I for one don't need big brothers protection. Our forefather's are rolling in there graves. Fear is what governments have used for years to manipulate there populace. This is scary times. People need to wake up. What, we can spy on our people and what they do on the internet and phones. Yet we of course will allow the terrorists right into our ports. Sounds very suspicious and I hope to God they aren't going to nuke a couple of cities this time. Because you know what will happen if it does.

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Illusory]

Originally posted by df1
How brave and noble of you.

Thank you. You would do well to remember that I have inhabited this planet for more than a half century, as I'm sure I have noted earlier, and that I have voiced my opposition to various government actions, programs, and the like to the government and its leaders. If you don't like the Patriot Act, you would do well to do as I have done. You'll get a lot more action writing to your elected officials than you will carping about it on ATS.

Here is but one example:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hey does the "Patriot Act" still NEGATE the 4th Amendment? Did they at least Revise/Adjust it a little - wasn't Senator Reed looking into this Issue?

What am I saying it is probably the same old stuff that they have re-passed. Was it made Permanent or is there a time limit on it again? This "War Against Terrorism" will NEVER end until Corruption is Eliminated (I wonder if this is even Possible given Human Nature) - it is Corruption (Political, Religious & Economic) that Breeds Terrorism! The Government should Declare a War on ITSELF in that case! "Patriot Act" - they should just quite with the cute name games - they should just call it the "Fascist Police State Act" or "Man this Constitution thingy is getting in our way, lets bypass it Act" - or maybe just, "We the Corporate Government OWN your Ass Act"!

Originally posted by grimreaper797

... it doesnt matter what its like now, what does matter is what it will be like in 10 or 15 years when the easily influential kids of now will be so insecure and scared of everyone around them. its not about now, its about the effects its having on our generation that we need to worry about. whether it makes you paranoid really doesnt matter, its about whether its creating a mindset for the future generation to fear other people they meet. your talkin about the immediate outcome im talkin about the long term effects.

GREAT comments and observations.

I think you're right.

I just read 'No Two Alike: Human Nature and Human Individuality', an article that totally relates, and posted on it here. Basically, the article says:

...kids are smart, and they adapt. They see what the rules are, and they do what they need to do to survive in different environments - emotionally and in terms of status.


The Patriot Act promises to redefine Americans' personalities. NOT in a good way.

It doesn't really matter anymore, does it? It seems the more we all try to argure about something, the more we tear it to shreds. But in all honesty the kooks, wierdo's, and madmen have reasons for being this way. People are each other and one's own enemy, remember that. It's not the government that lies it's the people to. Hypocricy, jumping around to different political factions at will (for whatever reason), constant greed, ignourance, and stupidity is now flourishing in the public and government. And who's at fault? The wierdo's, kooks, and madmen. It gets annoying trying to get somewere in life and you always have someone there trying to destroy what your trying to do. Grady at least open your eyes for once, the kids today do have it bad. The majority of us can bend but we brake more easily. The government can now do more of what it wants because they've finally found a generation that can go with the flow. The patriot act might not be as bad as everyone says it is but there are still stupid idiots who must use it. There are people in the pharmacuetical business that creates drugs that do nothing and jack them up extremely high. We watch things on tv and all we see are half truths, just parts of the story, made up bullcrap, or just blatant lies. They don't have an agenda which i understand now, there's just a wee but mental. Possibly shizo, dementia, multiple personality maybe?

[edit on 6-3-2006 by malakiem]

Originally posted by malakiem
The government can now do more of what it wants because they've finally found a generation that can go with the flow.

What generation are you speaking of?

Grady, i wish you would respectfully stop dating yourself. I'm probably as old as you are and dont make the claim in every single post i make.
Age is nothing. There are some people out there, older than we are who know nothing. Its all in the head, and i wont identify myself with you. I feel young, act young, and want to stay young. Since when is being 50 old and decrepit???? Jeeeeesh.
Gawd, man, stop depressing me.

They would have renewed the Patriot act regardless of how we feel. Its beyond us to do anything. Let them take our freedoms, let them have it all.
Just leave my mind alone. That's the one thing i have (whacky as it seems) that nobody can mess with.

Now Grady, stand up straight, you handsome devil you, and stop calling yourself old. I can still compete with the 30 year olds and so can you.

I believe there must be at least four generations living and I'm still curious as to which one the poster feels is the one who is a push-over for tyranny. Would it be the Depression era generation, the Boomers, X, Y, Z? I really only refer to my age when I feel that someone is mistaking me for a youth or they forget that older folks did not materialize in their aged condition at the moment of the younger's birth.

[edit on 2006/3/7 by GradyPhilpott]

Grady,
I have a couple of comments for Ya. You will notice that I used the appropriate quotes.
Here's the danger with this congress passing anything with a hint of permanence. This congress is incompetent, No! really, even more than normal. Sure there are competent members in both houses; Hell, some are even Republicans. But...there are a couple of problems.
Firstly, George Washington warned the people about a Two Party System. To put it simply, he said it was a really bad idea although I doubt that most of us have actually read Washington.
Secondly, when Washington’s predictions have proven themselves we ought to care enough about our country and our freedoms to take care of business. We haven’t, so far. This next election will tell us if the country has had enough abuse and bungling from these current fleabags.
The “Patriot’s” Act is an abomination. It is an affront to reason, freedom and flies in the face of any reasonable definition of public service.
I’ll give you a more direct example. When the Thought Police take your kids to give them a proper indoctrination at a facility where your kids can be “properly” disciplined, maybe them you might question incompetence and motive. Many of us already do.
I hope I haven't been too meek in stating my opinion. Did I make my point?
skep

Like in so many things this administration and this republican controlled congress does all you have to do is look at the name they call it to know what it isn't. "Patriot" my ample rear end...it it should be called the police state act. Remember Franklins rejoiner that "any people willing to trade their freedoms for security deserves neither. "

skep

I just don't hold your view of the Patriot Act. It's not that I don't comprehend the inherent danger involved, because I do. It's not that I don't think that Congress does idiotic things, because they do. My only position on the Patriot Act is that for the time being, these kinds of measures are essential to national security. It is up to us to make sure that the boundaries are not overstepped and that when our national situation improves that legislation reflects that.

You might have noted that I have a special affinity for the Second Amendment and that efforts to abridge the right to keep and bear arms get my goat. I do things that as a citizen are within my power to insure that those who are so wont do not render the Second Amendment null and void or without true meaning. I find it odd that those who think nothing of neutering the Second Amendment are outraged by the Patriot Act, which to me seems to be a rational response to incredibly dangerous times.

The Assault Weapons Ban, which was the most inane piece of legislation in the history of civilization finally, after ten years of accomplishing nothing, expired, but not without considerable effort on the part of those who opposed it.

The Patriot Act is different in so far as I believe that it has helped law enforcement to defend against our enemies. When that need diminishes then it will be up to us to make sure that the provisions of the Patriot Act are rescinded.

It doesn't look as though this submission is going to pass muster, so I will take the liberty of posting its source here, as I think that it is important and it advances this story.

The House has passed the Patriot Act and it is now on it's way to the White House, where I think we can expect that the President will sign it.

Quote: "(what) they call it to know what it isn't."

Yeah, I know that you mean. Kind of like when President Bush said that the Invasion of Iraq WASN'T about Israel or Oil a couple of months back. That pretty much means that
it WAS in-fact about Israel & Oil. Isn't it funny how we have grown accustomed to Interpreting the various Political Declarations of this Administration.
The opposite is almost always true! =

Clear Skies Initiative
No Child Left Behind
Patriot Act
Deficit Reduction Plan (which actually INCREASED Deficit Spending)
Foreign Policy -> "We are fighting them over there so that we don't have to worry about attacks over here"
Homeland Security (Should be re-named Homeland IN-Security)

& So on & So forth!

I don't think they are capable of telling the Truth & being Honest to the American people!

[edit on 8-3-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

I highly recommend EVERYBODY read Harper's "The Case for Impeachment" article. Personally I want to see the whole bloody lot of them from Bush to cheney to rumsfeld to rice and all their underlings, cronies and operatives criminally proscuted for crimes against humanity, starting a war on false premises, trampling of the constituition, falure to protect America, giving away the key to the chicken coop and general incompentance, tossed in abu graib without any clothes or vasaline and throw away the key. And that is when I am feeling charitable.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by malakiem
The government can now do more of what it wants because they've finally found a generation that can go with the flow.

What generation are you speaking of?

I'm talking to the one i belong to, and the one's that are a little older then mine. To give you a precise date of when i was born, 1984. Although many in my generation are stupid and were are nothing like the hippie generation, or the later distrust our government and change the scene thing. Although i could be thinking of something else. Although my generation is prone to manipulation.

Edit: Spell check

[edit on 8-3-2006 by malakiem]

o.p. by grover
I highly recommend EVERYBODY read Harper's "The Case for Impeachment" article.

I'll see that recommendation and raise you a link to an excerpt.

A country is not only what it does—it is also what it puts up with, what it tolerates. —Kurt Tucholsky

Why we can no longer afford George W. Bush

I'm a current subscriber and long time fan of the magazine, so I read the article when it came out. I don't always agree with Lewis Lapham, but he has done his homework here, and presents a compelling account of questionable (at best) decisions and practices throughout the reign of the current administration. I do believe something needs to, and in fact is starting to, be done about.

I can only hope we are able to make a peaceful transition to accountability, and more suitable representation from our federal government.

the only problem I see is that unless the entire bush administration is removed from power, nothing will change, and with cheney at the helm, could get far worse. Is there failing elections, any procedure in the constituition for removing an entire administration? And if that happens what do we end up with a congress (republican or democrat) in acendency? It is a historical fact that the pendlum of power fluxes and after an especially strong president, congress reasserts its progroatives. But do we want a congress controled by the current batch of buggers. liars and crooks dominate? After all the only difference between republicans and democrats is at least the democrats try and kiss ya before they tell ya to bend over, with the republicans its more akin to date rape.

I think there may be a lot going on behind the scenes right now that nobody but the very inside players really know about. Things do seem to be reaching some sort of critical mass. The game is getting too obvious to too many outsiders for those fixing the draw to get away with it much longer.

It is telling to me that Mr. DeLay won his primary today. The fact that he stepped into the HAC seat vacated by the disgraced, resigned, confessed, sentenced and soon to be incarcerated Mr. Cunningham speaks volumes to the political realities of the moment. Talk about being in the crosshairs of justice. I think he will be re-elected, just in time for the USSC to find his redistricting effort a fraudulent, deliberate attempt to circumvent the political process of not only Texas but maybe the entire United States of America. Think the State case will go much further after that? Will the USSC even hear the case?