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POLITICS: Senate Approves Renewal of Patriot Act

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posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpottI'd understand that the greater good is more important than my personal opinions.


What does this mean? Does it mean that you want to take away freedoms... to protect your freedoms?


Your definition of the greater good IS someone's opinion.




posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 08:36 PM
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im talkin about the bigger picture, im not saying bush is the evil guy. i wouldnt give bush that much credit. he couldnt pull off some master plot, he can hardly pull of a public speech. what im saying is the super rich big business people who run this country are greedy and want more. they want total power. bush is just a chapter in the book for them. hes only another stepping stone as was clinton, neither were good in my eyes, nor were any of the presidents since maybe jimmy carter (horrible president but last one with some honesty left in him).

in the end, who are we defending? thats the question we are asking...we arent defending the poor ghettos, hell we arent even supporting them. we arent defending the average working class people like you and me, cause we are the potential threats they must look out for. we are defending them and their way of life, not ours. if we were defending our way of life, we'd be watching every move they made instead of every move our average citizens made. they watch us, we watch them. instead they got us watching eachother like a bunch of paranoid nuts. whos watching them?

we are being manipulated to believe that we are the biggest threat to ourselves. that kind of paranoid outlook of fear allows them to control us in ways they couldnt before. they have been slowly working toward that since big business started owning politics.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
we are being manipulated to believe that we are the biggest threat to ourselves. that kind of paranoid outlook of fear allows them to control us in ways they couldnt before. they have been slowly working toward that since big business started owning politics.


Now, you really are beginning to sound paranoid. I hate to be the one to tell you this but big business is not the enemy in America. Yes, they do have to be watched and yes, they do have to be regulated, but without big business, there would be no running water, no electricity, no automobiles, no airlines, no computers, no microwaves, no air conditioning, no medications, no hospitals, no cold beer at the 7-eleven, no TV, no ATS, and a lot fewer jobs.


[edit on 2006/3/3 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 08:52 PM
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im not saying that the actual big business are bad, its there involvement in politics that is destroying this country. around every corner theres some sort of affiliation of big business with politicans leading to corruption. manipulation so they can sell more or profit more.

to think that the people who run big business arent lookin to constantly make as much money as possible without any reguards to you or me would be ignorant.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 09:05 PM
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provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare


Again, my problem with the Patriot Act and our current government in general is how they are providing for the common defense and promoting the general welfare of themselves and their cronies, not the rank and file of the American people, the backbone of this great nation.

I agree the Second Amendment and a house full of guns and ammo is a good deterrent, but only against the crackheads and dopefiends coming
around looking to rob you so they can get a fix, not against a government armed with heavy weapons, satellites, advanced listening devices, and the Patriot Act, a government that is bent on dividing the populace against itself so they can consolidate and maintain control while we lock ourselves in and stop trusting our neighbors.

What has happened to America, the Beautiful, the one that Katharine Lee Bates wrote about in 1913?



America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!


We, the people, have turned it over to a government that has sold it to the highest bidder, to corporate conglomerates and international interests that are cashing in on our standard of living, running our beautiful nation into the ground, and spoiling the future of our children.

They ought to call it the Stamp Out America Act.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
im not saying that the actual big business are bad, its there involvement in politics that is destroying this country.


Just remember who votes. And also remember this, we are all in this together. The ghetto thugs might not care too much but their lame butts are being covered by the efforts of the government and those who serve. The working people might always be trying to pay for the new car and the plasma TV, but their butts are being covered, too. I don't know about you, but long before 9/11 and the Patriot Act, I had to watch my neighborhood for drug dealers and addicts, burglars, rapists and murderers. Now, I have to add to that list middle eastern types who act funny.

We are not being manipulated to believe that we are the enemy, regardless of what Walt Kelly said. The fact is that the enemy is among us and that is something to worry about.

[edit on 2006/3/3 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 09:13 PM
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terrorist doesnt stop at middle eastern men, remember timothy mcvee? white converts? they want us watching out for EVERYONE who acts suspicous. didnt you read the patriot act? it was against discriminating middle eastern people and to combat terrorism by watching out for anyone doing anything out of the odinary that could possibly be considered a terrorist action/plot. terrorism isnt restricted to people from the middle east. you should at least know that.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 09:15 PM
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I just can't stand it! I'm getting all choked up about this.



O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife.
Who more than self the country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

.....

O beautiful for glory-tale
Of liberating strife
When once and twice,
for man's avail
Men lavished precious life !
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till selfish gain no longer stain
The banner of the free!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till nobler men keep once again
Thy whiter jubilee!


I want my country back!

America the Beautiful - 1913



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 09:26 PM
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How old are you Icarus Rising? For what Golden Age do you pine? Read the words of that poem.


O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife.
Who more than self the country loved
And mercy more than life!

O beautiful for glory-tale
Of liberating strife
When once and twice,
for man's avail
Men lavished precious life !


For the life of me I can't think of the America you yearn for unless you happen to be older than me. Also, note the references to self sacrifice, including that of one's life for liberty. Tell us of your sacrifices.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 09:44 PM
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I am reading it Grady, are you? I'm 42, grew up in the '60 and '70's in a country much like the one sung about here. Lived all my life until my late 30's in LA County, first in the High Desert, then on Catalina Island. Pay close attention, I'll give it another go for you.



Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!

Till selfish gain no longer stain
The banner of the free!

Till nobler men keep once again
Thy whiter jubilee!


Age isn't a badge of honor, nor is it a ticket to understanding. It is supposed to bring wisdom, but only to those who actively seek it. My sacrifices are many and sundry, some classified, and ongoing. I don't spout off about them to seem special or place myself above others.

I don't want to get into another one of your partisan rants with you, so I'll just leave it at that.

God bless you, and God bless the United States of America. Now more than ever, we need that blessing.

[edit on 3-3-2006 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
terrorist doesnt stop at middle eastern men, remember timothy mcvee? white converts? they want us watching out for EVERYONE who acts suspicous.


Yes, I am aware of that, but that is nothing new. Before 9/11, I never paid much attention to all those middle eastern cab drivers and convenience store owners. They all seemed like good hard working fellows to me and I'm sure that of the one's I speak that is true. Now, however, I am careful of the middle easterners. But, really, is watching out for suspicious behavior really that crazy? Should we not always be aware of who is around us and what they are up to? Are we not at war?



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 10:13 PM
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united we stand...divided we fall.

if you mean at war with one another then yea i guess so, or at least thats where we are headed.
when another timothy mcvee comes along, your going to be real shocked because it wasnt a stereotype muslim. you cant "watch out" for terrorism, unless your suspicous of every person on the face of the earth. terrorism is a belief not some sort of physical characteristic. ANYONE can be a terrorist reguardless if you know it or not. they are giving you the idea that you cant trust anyone, and thats our downfall.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
ANYONE can be a terrorist reguardless if you know it or not. they are giving you the idea that you cant trust anyone, and thats our downfall.


Anyone can be a drug dealer or a murderer, or a con artist, or a car hijacker. We live in dangerous times and that condition has persisted for most of my life, certainly all of my adult life. There is no need to be xenophobic or paranoiac. There is only a need to learn to look at what's going on around you.

I can't change your pessimism. Somehow you'll have to learn to overcome that on your own. The best remedy for the scenario you fear is to get to know your neighbors and those with whom you work. Take breaks out in the yard and wave at the people passing by. Make yourself noticeable. It's harder in today's world, but these are things that the average person can do and if an entire neighborhood is involved, it can make a difference.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 11:39 PM
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lol your mistaken, i am merely stating what a majority of people are experiencing. exactly as you said, anybody could be a murder, and sure if we see them murdering some one or we see them pulling a body out of a car we do something, why should terrorism be any different? they have all this hype making people feel like its dire they drop what they are doing to look out for terrorists. when the fact is its just like any murder or drug dealer. your failing to see the point im making.

as a generation we are being manipulated to fear our neighbors and be fully suspicous of everyone. are you suspicous of everyone you know to be a murderer or drug dealer? are you constantly watching out for those signs everyday? if you are then thats a pity, because your wasting your time.

im merely telling you what a majority of the youth is being led to believe. everyone could be a terrorist, trust nobody. you must always have your guard up, terrorists could be around every corner. its like the cold war, different scenario. "we must be prepared at all times because nukes could strike at any time with little notice" now its just"we must be prepared at all times because terrorists could strike at any time with little notice"

sure theres the potential it could happen, theres also the potential a giant elephant could escape from the zoo and crush your car tomorrow morning. does that mean we become paranoid for every possible thing that can go wrong? no because that would defeat the point of living.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 11:59 PM
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I get your point, but you're taking what I'm saying to a degree that I do not intend. In the neighborhood I inhabit, unfortunately, criminal activity is common and yes, I do observe who is out and about and what people are up to. Continued existence depends on it. I hate punks and call the police to report them every chance I get and one of these days I will be blessed with the opportunity to change one's life permanently. You don't need to be overly distrustful to watch what people are up to and to do something about it.

[edit on 2006/3/4 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 08:51 AM
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Terrorism doesnt worry me one bit, what does worry me is what our governments response will be to the next major disaster, be it manmade or natural.

today is my 37th birthday but in my mind i feel much older.

i can remember when gas was less than a dollar/gallon.

i can remember when a payphone was 10 cents

i can remember when the cable bill was less than $40


yes our government is run by big buisness, i agree with that completely.

i feel that the only way we can get back to our country that we all love is by starting our own wave of corruption.

lets corrupt the minds and hearts and get them back to thinking of the times when a whole street would come together and grill dogs/burgers and drink a beer or 2 and just chat with friends and family and enjoy peace in the world.

start with those closest to you and encourage them to spread the corruption



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 09:59 AM
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grady, im not talkin about you, what you individually do really isnt the topic im trying to get across to you. Im talkin about what they are causing A MAJORITY of people to do. in my generation they are instilling fear into young minds to be afraid of EVERYONE that is around them. they want them to be constantly on full alert for "terrorists"

Assata Shakur, who has been in exile in cuba since 1980 after being framed during COINTELPRO times, is now on the terrorist list for the US as of May 2 2005. 1 million dollars is reward for info leading to her capture. this is one case of abuse of new terrorist laws. they would have never been able to deem her a "terrorist" before 9/11 and all these new laws because in all honesty, she never was one. she was held accountable for the death of a new jersey cop, that she might not have even shot. how is that considered terrorist action? especially after she has done nothing for well over 20 years?



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 10:48 AM
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..without big business, there would be no running water, no electricity, no automobiles, no airlines, no computers, no microwaves, no air conditioning, no medications, no hospitals, no cold beer at the 7-eleven, no TV, no ATS, and a lot fewer jobs.




Without big business there would be no running water? No electricity, or autos, or planes, and so on? You mean they wouldn't be ubiquitous, right? None of those things were invented by any sort of 'big business', and in most places of the world big business has no hand in them.

Big business does, indeed, make planes and substations and automobiles and so on, but they didn't come up with this stuff, and they don't monopolize it, and they aren't responsible for anywhere near the lion's share of innovations.

Hospitals? You're telling me there would be no hospitals without big business? Could you explain why that's true?

All of these ventures can be profitable without being obscene, and there's nothing wrong with a little profit. What's wrong is token executives getting 500 times a worker's salary. It's simple, pathetic, short-sighted greed.

Why do medications cost so much? Because our government subsidizes Billions for overpriced prescriptions, the profits from which overwhelmingly go to drug advertising. Oh yeah! Wonderful big business. How lucky we all are to toil in order to afford a life-saving product with a 50000% mark-up, hawked to us by the very people making us sick with all the crappy products they make with noxious chemicals and heavy metals and other various runoff and scrapings.

Big business kills a HELL of a lot more people every year than terrorism, but the Patriot Act doesn't seem to account at all for that fact. Could it be because the people writing our laws are intimately connected to the revolving door of big business management? Yeah, I think that's it.

The Patriot Act is actually just the opposite of what its name implies, and that's not at all surprising given the fact that international business crafted it, sold it, and delivered it. See, international big business has no national loyalty (not necessarily a bad thing by itself), no need for decency or morality. If they can get away with murder and make a buck, they are legally obligated to do just that.

Do I even have to say it? - They can definitely get away with it.

As to the last couple of items on your list, ATS, and jobs...

Last I checked ATS had nothing to do with big business, and big business is much happier cutting domestic jobs than creating them.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Odd. The dreaded, evil Patriot Act passes and there is not a single comment.



You are right Grady and you know why?? Because we were all too busy talking about the ports.
There is a method to their madness in government.



posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Grimreaper797 there is a difference between between being vigilant and being paranoid. In today's society it is only prudent to be vigilant all the time for there are many, many kooks & wierdoos & evil people around. Being vigilant doesn't mean you can't be friendly, courteous, and considerate of others at the same time--you can be. And if you are, they will generally respond in kind. Let's not forget that a lot of the dissonance, complaining, accusations, etc. come from individuals and groups trying to gain some sort of advantage over the groups currently in power. The situation is not nearly as bad as the media would have you believe.

I'm not saying there aren't abuses of power, personal greed, or other forms of illegal & immoral activity going on--there clearly are. Add to this the sheer incompetence of many of the people who actively seek government service and you end up with a situation like we have right now. But the current situation isn't really any different than it was under the last administration, or the one before that, etc. The only real difference is the addition of the terrorist threat to the extent that it is currently perceived. And it isn't just a perception, it's as real as things get. The events of 9/11 should have stamped that into our collective psyche once and for all.

Extra-ordinary threats require extra-ordinary responses--thus the Patriot Act. There may well have been other ways to respond, but our elected leaders chose our current way. Yeah it can be a pain in the posterior at times and yeah it has the potential for much greater abuse than before, but considering everything going on it has not been abused very much at all.

Recall if you will the measures taken during World War II, or Korea, or just about any other of our wars and the Patriot Act recedes into the background pretty far.

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Astronomer68]



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