Paul McCartney died in 1966 - replaced by Billy Shepherd

nevermind

it's only the sound of the low spark of high-heeled boys

Originally posted by tinaballerina

Has anyone heard this before? I wonder if there would be a way to find the newspaper or media reports from this incident??

Thanks for this. I looked through a bunch of old newspaper articles from the time, but didn't find anything that said the fingerprints didn't match. Trust me, if I had, people would know about it! :-P

Does anyone have the ability to do voiceprints?

[edit on 28-8-2009 by faulconandsnowjob]

Originally posted by kshaund
I find it very strange only Paul was knighted - why not John as well since they were writing partners, or the entire Beatles as a group?

John returned his MBE in 1969, which to me seems like a big f- you. So, not surprising he wouldn't get an OBE. And anyway, Faul wasn't knighted until 1997 - long after John was dead. See www.beatlesinterviews.org... for more info.

But yeah, what exactly was the nature of this service to the Queen?

Originally posted by faulconandsnowjob

Originally posted by kshaund
I find it very strange only Paul was knighted - why not John as well since they were writing partners, or the entire Beatles as a group?

John returned his MBE in 1969, which to me seems like a big f- you. So, not surprising he wouldn't get an OBE. And anyway, Paul wasn't knighted until 1997 - long after John was dead.

But yeah, what exactly was the nature of this service to the Queen?

Eh?

Faulcon, I'll excuse your ignorance on this one as it seems you do not understand what an MBE is awarded for.
It stands for Member in The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. It is one of the highest honors a civilian in Great Britain can obtain, short of being knighted. There are five levels and this one is the lowest level.

Sir James Paul McCartney received his Knighthood because of his contributions to the music industry. McCartney, MBE (born 18 June 1942), formerly of The Beatles and Wings, is the most successful songwriter in the history of popular music.McCartney is a multiple Grammy Award- and Academy Award-winning English singer-songwriter, poet, composer, multi-instrumentalist, entrepreneur, record producer, film producer, painter, and animal rights and peace activist. He gained worldwide fame as a member of The Beatles, alongside John Lennon, George Harrison, and Ringo Starr. McCartney and Lennon formed one of the most influential and successful songwriting partnerships and wrote some of the most popular songs in the history of rock music.

October 16, 1965
The Beatles received their MBE (Members of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire) awards from Queen Elizabeth at Buckingham Palace.

John Lennon returned his MBE in '69 as a means of protest about the Vietnam War.
Paul was always diplomatic and decided to keep his, there really isn't any more to it, although I'm sure one of you 'pidders' will do your utmost to turn into something conspiracy related.

George Martin was also awarded an MBE a year earlier than Paul in 1996.

Originally posted by diabolo1
He is wearing those nerd-glasses for fun, and you call that evidence?

Well, if he was wearing those glasses for fun, he sure did it often. Notice the 4 different outfits and 2 of the times he is playing guitar.













[edit on 28-8-2009 by SednaSon]

Originally posted by pmexplorer
Faulcon, I'll excuse your ignorance on this one as it seems you do not understand what an MBE is awarded for.

You make a lot of assumptions.

The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire is a British order of chivalry established on 4 June 1917 by King George V...
Only the two highest ranks entail admission into knighthood, an honour allowing the recipient to use the title "Sir" (male) or "Dame" (female) before his or her first name. ...
The Order includes five classes in civil and military divisions. In decreasing order of seniority, these are:

Knight Grand Cross (GBE) or Dame Grand Cross (GBE)
Knight Commander (KBE) or Dame Commander (DBE)
Commander (CBE)
Officer (OBE)
Member (MBE)

en.wikipedia.org...

So, I guess Faul is either Knight Grand Cross or Knight Commander. Also of interest:

Motto For God and the Empire
Awarded for A national order of merit

en.wikipedia.org...

Ah yes, I vaguely remember Lennon returning something to the Queen - I don't remember a lot from back then about them, just snippets here and there. I know he's the only knighted one - Lennon could have been knighted posthumously were it really about song writing.

Originally posted by faulconandsnowjob

Originally posted by kshaund
I find it very strange only Paul was knighted - why not John as well since they were writing partners, or the entire Beatles as a group?

John returned his MBE in 1969, which to me seems like a big f- you. So, not surprising he wouldn't get an OBE. And anyway, Faul wasn't knighted until 1997 - long after John was dead. See www.beatlesinterviews.org... for more info.

But yeah, what exactly was the nature of this service to the Queen?

Originally posted by faulconandsnowjob
So, I guess Paul is either Knight Grand Cross or Knight Commander. Also of interest:

What assumptions?

Are you just, as I predicted, trying to twist this into something else?

Elton John was another famous British musician awarded a knighthood just like Paul. Ian Botham the cricketer is another I recall. What is the relevance of what category he falls into exactly?



[edit on 28-8-2009 by pmexplorer]

Onlooker was a member of the Nothing Is Real: Paul Was Replaced discussion forum. Here is a personal story of two of her friends meeting Paul before and after 1967.


I just wanted to tell you (off the board) about the incident in Liverpool. I'm the one that has a good friend who also happens to be friends with P(F)aul.
A little background about me:
I met Paul (very briefly) in 1966 at Candlestick Park, at the Beatles last show of the last tour. I was quite taken by John at that point in time, but Paul really impressed me by his charm. As I was (is) quite a fan, I really drank the encounter in.
Later in 1975 or 1976 (I honestly get the years mixed up) - I was living in London - I met P(F)aul and Linda at a film premier. I shook his hand and he spoke and actually sang to me (a tiny bit of "When I'm 64"), probably because the press were all around and it was a photo op. I was a bit taken aback; this, to me, did not seem to be the same person I'd met 10 years before. Honestly. I was looking directly into his eyes - they did not seem the same.
I kept this opinion to myself for decades. I tried to make no judgement about what might have happened. I would allow that 10 years had passed - lots can happen to a person in 10 years, but...as I love to study eyes, this was quite haunting to me.
Lo and behold, I stumble upon 60if. Again, I've always reserved judgement...I didn't necessarily buy into the whole Paul-is-dead thing...but certainly wondered what DID happen. I still feel this way...
My dear friend in Liverpool met P(F)aul a few years back; they got along well...and when he's in town, he always hooks up with this friend. I've not been eager to strain that relationship at all...and my friend has only known him in this decade.
Well, this friend does, in fact, tell me little things he's said when they've been together. The incident in Liverpool was this:
P(F)aul went to the graduation of the (then) current class. He's generally quite charming and affable, giving a rousing send-off speech, full of optimism. This time, an old friend showed up - one who'd attended the school when they were schoolkids themselves. This friend (not in front of the students) came up to P(F)aul and expected to get a firm handshake, a joke, maybe, and exchange a memory or two. P(F)aul didn't recognize him...and when this old friend pressed him a bit further, P(F)aul started to get really irritated. According to MY friend, who was present for this encounter, he was more than mildly upset - and this seemed really odd to my friend. My friend told me it seemed sort of a mountain/molehill situation. Then, P(F)aul went to address the students - remaining in a pissy mood - and gave them none of the usual pep talk, rather he kept that mood throughout, finally, at the end, just telling them that the hard work they would encounter will probably break some of them in such a competitive business.
My friend wrote this off as just a bad mood. I shared it with the board because (again, trying not to draw conclusions) I thought they ought to know.
I don't really want to be involved with the board, so I'm telling you personally. I have quite a life, and can't get drawn into the fray. I do not, still, want to conclude that Paul is dead, or alive for that matter. I just don't know. I have my own senses and experiences...but just don't want to jump into taking anything else as fact.
There you have it.
onlooker

Are we supposed to take this as a proof? LOL

Originally posted by SednaSon

P(F)aul went to the graduation of the (then) current class. He's generally quite charming and affable, giving a rousing send-off speech, full of optimism. This time, an old friend showed up - one who'd attended the school when they were schoolkids themselves. This friend (not in front of the students) came up to P(F)aul and expected to get a firm handshake, a joke, maybe, and exchange a memory or two. P(F)aul didn't recognize him...and when this old friend pressed him a bit further, P(F)aul started to get really irritated.

I guess they couldn't have briefed Faul on every single person Paul might have known. But then again, maybe they did & he just forgot. He even forgot that the Beatles were *supposedly* not a "set up affair" when he joined. lol


[edit on 29-8-2009 by faulconandsnowjob]

Originally posted by SednaSon

Well, if he was wearing those glasses for fun, he sure did it often.

If Paul needed glasses when he was young, but Faul didn't need them until he was older, that seems pretty significant to me.

From a poster, Sonikdav, on the D.I forum some months back -


"My friends and I are all music buffs, I'm not really huge on the beatles and I don't know an awful lot about them, but my best friend is a huge Beatles fan and I first got into this paul is dead business when I read a book about it on his bookshelf. My friend doesn't think Paul was replaced he just collects Beatles stuff, but I was fascinated with it. I am however a huge fan of The Smiths, Morrissey and Johnny Marr.. Well I had an opportunity to meet Johnny Marr at a major record store here in Toronto Ontario(HMV). I was very nervous in meeting him and wasn't sure what to say, but when we had concluded our talk in which I got a picture with him he introduced me to Zak, Ringo's son who plays drums in Johnny's new band at the time, the Healers. Well after talking to him about 5 mins I remembered the whole deal with Paul is dead so I asked him about it, can't remember exactly what I said, but he said "definitely something there isn't there? There will always be a Paul McCartney" then proceeded to change the subject quite quickly...

Also my brother's friend owns a bar in Brantford Ontario where I was living last year and Pete Best was performing there one night. I had no idea he was coming I was there watching a hockey game (typical canadian) He actually sat down next to me and my brother and had a drink with us, I also asked him about the whole Paul is dead theories and what he thought, and his entire demenour changed and he looked like he was stressed out about something and he said "Such a sad story, I wish I had time to properly discuss my feelings about it but either nobody cares anymore or nobody asks." I was pretty buzzed as I was drinking quite a bit (my team was losing) when I was talking to him and I asked him straight up if Paul was dead in his opinion and he just shook his head and kept drinking staring at his beer and left within a few mins into the back.

I have shown my wife faul/paul pictures and she knows nothing about mccartney didn't even recognize him in the pictures, but I asked if it was the same guy with about 5 photos and each time she could distinctively pick out which one was faul and which was paul. These things make me think maybe I'm not insane in thinking it is a real possibility Paul was replaced or died."

Originally posted by Uncle Benny
I have shown my wife faul/paul pictures and she knows nothing about mccartney didn't even recognize him in the pictures, but I asked if it was the same guy with about 5 photos and each time she could distinctively pick out which one was faul and which was paul. These things make me think maybe I'm not insane in thinking it is a real possibility Paul was replaced or died.

You don't think the different hairstyles and clothes might have helped identification just a teensy bit?

I've heard a couple of different versions of why Pete Best left. One was he wasn't a good enough drummer. Another was the other Beatles were "jealous" of him (I'm not buying that one). Here, Pete says he quit the Beatles to start his own band:



Now a different story - he was fired b/c the other Beatles wanted him out:



Then, there was a PBS show about Pete Best, called "Best of the Beatles." They interviewed a person (not George Martin) who insisted that Best be removed before a record contract would be granted. He said when Best failed to play something the way he wanted him to, he decided that a new drummer needed to be found - & then he admitted Ringo probably couldn't have done it, either. Show info: www.pbs.org...

So, who knows what the truth is? Maybe it was just b/c Pete couldn't wear a moptop :-P

But anyway, it's interesting that there's a military connection w/ Pete:

...Best's father, John Best, came from a family of sports promoters in Liverpool... Mona Best was born in Delhi, India, and was the daughter of a British army officer...

en.wikipedia.org...

Jim Morrison's father was the admiral at Gulf of Tonkin fake event. Joe Strummer's father was a British foreign-service diplomat. A lot of stars have some interesting connections.

Queen Elizabeth is distantly related to Lemmy from Motorhead, on her mother's side.

www.anagrammy.com...

[edit on 29-8-2009 by faulconandsnowjob]

Originally posted by seaofgreen
You don't think the different hairstyles and clothes might have helped identification just a teensy bit?

People who haven't been conditioned to see Faul as Paul seem to be able to spot the differences pretty easily.

Originally posted by faulconandsnowjob
I guess they couldn't have briefed Faul on every single person Paul might have known. But then again, maybe they did & he just forgot. He even forgot that the Beatles were *supposedly* not a "set up affair" when he joined. lol

He wasn't talking about the Beatles being a set-up affair organised by anyone outside of the band, that was just another one of your weird out of context, obviously tampered with youtube vids that was either made by someone hugely missing Macca's point, or purposely trying to deceive. Did you make it Faulcon? Are you really that dense or are you purposely trying to deceive?
Why don't you post the original clip, with the rest of the interview, so we can hear it in context? If then it appears he says what you claim I'll eat this thread.

I know you won't though because then you'd have to admit what Macca meant was not that the band was set-up in the sense you're implying, but simply that the band was already together, formed, playing, practicing, set-up, however you want to say it, when he joined.
In other words he wasn't part of the original line-up, he joined an already established band (on rhythm guitar, even though he was already a better musician than the other three on all the instruments). He didn't mean it was a 'set-up' in a sinister, fraudulent sense, but more like setting up a tent, 'we set-up the tent, and had a jolly good time', doesn't mean we left the tent to be killed and replaced, you have to understand how we English talk, and that terms often have differing contexts.

The Beatles were 'set-up' by no one but the members of the band who were there before Macca joined and asserted his superiority. If anything Macca set the Beatles up, and eventually broke them up.

And you really think it's logical that they could brief someone on all the people someone like Macca would know? How would 'they' even know all the people Macca knew? You make the most illogical assertions it's quite remarkable. Your whole hypothesis is based on misunderstandings, do you argue with people a lot in real life?

[edit on 8/29/2009 by ANOK]

Originally posted by faulconandsnowjob
I've heard a couple of different versions of why Pete Best left. One was he wasn't a good enough drummer. Another was the other Beatles were "jealous" of him (I'm not buying that one). Here, Pete says he quit the Beatles to start his own band:

Then, there was a PBS show about Pete Best, called "Best of the Beatles." They interviewed a person (not George Martin) who insisted that Best be removed before a record contract would be granted. He said when Best failed to play something the way he wanted him to, he decided that a new drummer needed to be found - & then he admitted Ringo probably couldn't have done it, either. Show info: www.pbs.org...

So, who knows what the truth is? Maybe it was just b/c Pete couldn't wear a moptop :-P

Difficult to say but Pete was probably dropped because he wasn`t considered a good enough drummer. However Neil Aspinall wasn`t happy with his removal and was about to quit the group himself.

Maybe there was some agro and he just wasn`t fitting in. It wasn`t because of his looks as the women were mad after him. In fact Lennon could well have been jealous that the female attention was going to the drummer and not the front men - Ringo was hardly what you`d consider handsome lol and he was more in the background/easier to handle.

Originally posted by faulconandsnowjob

Originally posted by seaofgreen
You don't think the different hairstyles and clothes might have helped identification just a teensy bit?

People who haven't been conditioned to see Faul as Paul seem to be able to spot the differences pretty easily.

Sigh, anyone can spot the different clothes and hairstyles easily.