how will he come?

saint4God.

There is one major dilema that you face in your arguments.

You are very persistent, however your persistence followed by clearer examples or better understanding of the questions or statements posted by others.

On the contrary, its the same rhetoric that any Christian would give.

My point is this simply.

Try to step back from your bag of tricks (answers) and ponder why people keep asking and saying the same thing to you.
Its obvioulsy cause your not communicating your answers clearly and I dont mean in an intelligible way, but of that of evaluating if your statments actually fit that which the subject pertains too from the person asking or making a statment to you.

Try me for example, I promise you, from the current track record of how you communicate your belief, I will not change my mind. Those strong in what they believe will not change either.
Albeit those who are unclear and want desperately to cling to some answer may hold on, eventually to what you have to say.

It is my recommendation to you, again, to sit back.
This is not at all threatening or attacking. I am calmly sitting here chatting to you as a father to a son.

Please continue to express yourself, however...take some time. Try to think from the other persons perspective...dropping the bag of tricks and answers/responces.

Allow yourself to feel what they feel...understanding that they, like you, cary a life worths of experience, but from a very different perspecitve than yourself.

In the end, with something like Christianity or any other religion...you will find evangelising does not do benefit for anyone. You or the person being converted.
You may feel the adrenaline, and then silently sit back wondering if somehow you can have what you preached to them.
They may pick up some quick thing to believe in.

But more lasting is you living your life...and through your example and testimony, share with others. No one can take your testimony...its yours...your experience.

This is called patience, and on other word. Love.
Jesus tried it, of course he eventually was killed off. (If he even existed.)

But there is always the option to keep going on as you are.

Those that seek with all they have will find...may may feel that they keep finding they understand less...and be frightened...but once you empty yourself...or die to yourself, as the Christians put it...you will be fine.

Saying that you dipped your toes in hell is actually is not accurate to what people are aksing...from what I understood from a quick reading.

For the most part people want literal proof. Not the expression of I have been there and been in hell almost.

Hell may exist, but if it does, I am pretty sure its not formed how the Christians believe.
After all, we know that hell was not made for people but for Satan.
And who is Satan after all? Christianity is an intersting bag in itself, once you dig to its roots.

Go to the Orthodox, the Catholic, and then the very splentered protestant movment.
There is a lot with the older versions of Christianity that more resembles Rabbinic Judaism then the new Zionist movement...and with that I am refering to Evangelical Christians as Zionist Jews alike...one and the same either way you look at it. Bent on the destruction of the world, and bringing their dream about.

Well, take care Saint.

Peace

Dalen

Sorry to interrupt the debate, but as a humble observer, I think if jesus was to return as a human being, he would do so as the smelly homeless guy that noone can make eye contact with. It would be a simple test for his chosen ones. I wonder how many would pass the test.

Originally posted by shadow watcher
I wonder how many would pass the test.

I'd fail it like a calculus exam in Chinese.

Originally posted by dAlen
saint4God.

There is one major dilema that you face in your arguments.

You are very persistent,

Not my preference. I like to avoid confrontation.

Originally posted by dAlen
however your persistence followed by clearer examples or better understanding of the questions or statements posted by others.

On the contrary, its the same rhetoric that any Christian would give.

Thank you, there's something to be said about consistency. I feel better "being in line" than in conflict with other believers.

Originally posted by dAlen
My point is this simply.

Try to step back from your bag of tricks (answers)

I don't practice magick nor illusion. I have no Communications degree nor give speeches. I appreciate the consideration that I have some kind of talent or practice, though it's undeserved.

Originally posted by dAlen
and ponder why people keep asking and saying the same thing to you.
Its obvioulsy cause your not communicating your answers clearly and I dont mean in an intelligible way, but of that of evaluating if your statments actually fit that which the subject pertains too from the person asking or making a statment to you.

Probably because I don't have a Communications degree or practice speeches. Should I pursue such?

Originally posted by dAlen
Try me for example, I promise you, from the current track record of how you communicate your belief, I will not change my mind.

I do not want you nor anyone to change their mind based upon what I say. That'd be foolish on both our parts. That's not even the message I'm delivering.

Originally posted by dAlen
Those strong in what they believe will not change either.
Albeit those who are unclear and want desperately to cling to some answer may hold on, eventually to what you have to say.

Not my goal.

Originally posted by dAlen
It is my recommendation to you, again, to sit back.
This is not at all threatening or attacking. I am calmly sitting here chatting to you as a father to a son. Please continue to express yourself, however...take some time. Try to think from the other persons perspective...dropping the bag of tricks and answers/responces.

Allow yourself to feel what they feel...understanding that they, like you, cary a life worths of experience, but from a very different perspecitve than yourself.

Have I ever treaty anyone here as not of great value? On the contrary, EVERYONE here is of great value, else I would indeed just say nothing.

Originally posted by dAlen
In the end, with something like Christianity or any other religion...you will find evangelising does not do benefit for anyone.
You or the person being converted.
You may feel the adrenaline,

Or not.

Originally posted by dAlen
and then silently sit back wondering if somehow you can have what you preached to them.

I've received my gift already. Just helping other folks get theirs. I cannot "earn" what has already been given to me as a gift. Then, it is no longer a gift.

Originally posted by dAlen
They may pick up some quick thing to believe in.

But more lasting is you living your life...and through your example and testimony, share with others.

Exactly, and have and will share testimony here to anyone interested.

Originally posted by dAlen
No one can take your testimony...its yours...your experience.

Yes, which is why I can merely help others acquire their own testimony.

Originally posted by dAlen
This is called patience, and on other word. Love.

Patience and Love are two very key and excellent tools to live by.

Originally posted by dAlen
Jesus tried it,

Jesus succeeded.

Originally posted by dAlen
of course he eventually was killed off.

By his submission and is again alive.

Originally posted by dAlen
(If he even existed.)

Indeed he is. That is the heart of my testimony, which includes love and patience.

Originally posted by dAlen
But there is always the option to keep going on as you are.

Thank you, I appreciate this respectful acknowledgement.

Originally posted by dAlen
Those that seek with all they have will find...may may feel that they keep finding they understand less...and be frightened...but once you empty yourself...or die to yourself, as the Christians put it...you will be fine.

Saying that you dipped your toes in hell is actually is not accurate to what people are aksing...from what I understood from a quick reading.

It was not meant to be a literal fact. I'd have no toes in that case. Clearly I have toes. There was another who used to speak in parables...

Originally posted by dAlen
For the most part people want literal proof. Not the expression of I have been there and been in hell almost.

Hell may exist, but if it does, I am pretty sure its not formed how the Christians believe.

And you're pretty sure...how?

Originally posted by dAlen
After all, we know that hell was not made for people but for Satan.

People are added company: (not fire and brimstone directed to any person here, just an example of Christ talking about people being condemned to hell)

Matthew 23:33
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Originally posted by dAlen
And who is Satan after all?

Job 1:7
The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Revelation is probably best in description though it's throughout the Book.

Originally posted by dAlen
Christianity is an intersting bag in itself, once you dig to its roots.

Indeed, there's a book called Christianity: 2000 years of faith, that I'm working on.

Originally posted by dAlen
Go to the Orthodox, the Catholic, and then the very splentered protestant movment.

I've been to Catholic and Protestant chruches, they're not as splintered as it appear on ATS.

Originally posted by dAlen
There is a lot with the older versions of Christianity that more resembles Rabbinic Judaism then the new Zionist movement...and with that I am refering to Evangelical Christians as Zionist Jews alike...one and the same either way you look at it. Bent on the destruction of the world, and bringing their dream about.

Whoa hey, how is an evangelical Christian "bent on destruction of the world, and bringing their dream about"? You seem to think I fall into this evangelical Christian catagory, how am I bent on distruction or bringing about my dreams?

Originally posted by dAlen
Well, take care Saint.

Peace

Dalen

You as well Dalen, peace. I will take your words in consideration though in all fairness, I spent many months on ATS without saying a word. Even moreso, when I was speaking, you may have noticed I did not address you until recently. I don't like to "jump" into anything, nor engage in an extensive in-depth discussion without knowing where someone is coming from first. There's this radical presumption that I just walked in the door and started rattling off at the mouth. Not sure where this is coming from. Oh, and if someone addresses me, I think it's only fair that I get to address them as well.

[edit on 18-8-2006 by saint4God]

Saint4god,

Do you beleive that the Earth is going to be smashed by 'blazing star which falls from the sky' in the very near future....?

Wormwood is the name the bible gives it I believe...?

Just wondering with people believe whole heartedly what the Bible says don't ever talk about the seven trumpets, churches, seals, beast's seal in which no man can buy or sell without it. The end times basically.

Maybe its for another thread but I am interested as to what you make of it.

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra

Do you beleive that the Earth is going to be smashed by 'blazing star which falls from the sky' in the very near future....?

Wormwood is the name the bible gives it

I don't believe that is a literal star that we see in the night sky. It is either a reference to nuclear missles as they reenter the atmosphere or it is a reference to a fallen angel.

Originally posted by queenannie38

Well, then I wouldn't worry about it, if I were you. It wil be just like any other day.

Wow did i sound worried to you?.

No, I do not watch TV. It's too mind numbing. But I DO have common sense; not necessarily governed by fear, however.
Show you? Why? So you can approve me according to your own thoughts?
I am not fearful of anything, including stalkers. There are guards at the gate and angels over head. They're watching so I don't have to.

Guess not seeing you live in a compound or are you an inmate?while you kid yourself your gods got ya back.Not knowing because you had`nt stated such before hand was why i was concerned get it?

I hav`nt heard of or seen places to live voluntarily like what you describe here in Australia

I trust God more than I mistrust man and the point will be proven in due time.

From your quote " It wil be just like any other day."sounds like your already preparing for your excuses.
Have i ever slammed you before?no?,then when you slam all Christians my brothers and sisters particularly the ones that invited yourself to a prayer group only to be spat at for it then use saint4God`s real name while you sit in your compound all guarded and safe posting your own details saying you don`t fear because Gods got ya back i`m not going to trust your word.I dont trust you or believe God has given you any devine message,not to someone who is against Christianity or Christians in general.

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
Saint4god,

Do you beleive that the Earth is going to be smashed by 'blazing star which falls from the sky' in the very near future....?

No, but then again, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest such. I had an uncle who completely believed Marduk, the great star was coming to smash earth. Spent some time in Jr. High School researching it. He may be right in a few million years.

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
Wormwood is the name the bible gives it I believe...?

I've heard the hypothesis, just haven't seen any theory or supporting evidence as of yet.

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
Just wondering with people believe whole heartedly what the Bible says don't ever talk about the seven trumpets, churches, seals, beast's seal in which no man can buy or sell without it. The end times basically.

Revelation is my favorite book. I tend not to talk about it much here because there's kind of a "knee-jerk" reaction that I'm all for the doom and gloom of mankind...or that I wish ill-will upon those who do not believe. Neither is the case. I don't plan on wasting time waiting for the end to come because candidly according to the Bible, it can come at any time. In fact, my "end time" may come today. I don't know if it will or not, so I have to do everything I can to put that time to proper use.

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
Maybe its for another thread but I am interested as to what you make of it.

I think it's very thread-appropriate here and appreciate the honest question. I used to think that the Bible wasn't literal when it comes to Eden and Revelation, but I'm learning over time that there's a lot more literally present in the Bible than I initially thought. When I sat down and really studied Eden, I'd found it's physical location according to the Bible and all the things present seem less like a figure of speech. The city of Ur is southeast of Bagdad and still exists. It was in Genesis as well. Thank you also for your interest, I'm curious to see where you'd like to go next.

[edit on 21-8-2006 by saint4God]

Saint4God: I've heard the hypothesis, just haven't seen any theory or supporting evidence as of yet.

saint4God, 7th_Chakra, gps777 and dbrandt here is that evidence.

On this thread, the following events have been suggested thus marking the appearance of the coming messiah…Wormwood as part of Bible prophecy, falling angels and falling stars are also being mentioned, all very interesting I thought.
Hmm, thinking intuitively…what if I Google ‘Wormwood and bluestar’.
Why the color blue you ask?
I had posted a link back on page 3, but who ever goes to all the links provided? This post is also for those who have joined the conversation since then.
The following post deals with the color blue, a star and Hopi prophecy.
It deals with ‘how will he come’?
What color of light symbolizes or marks the arrival of the messiah?
The color blue suggests the Apocalypse has already begun.

Here is a conversation that took place on another thread, now provided with updates.

On 2006-03-16 18:05, gracie wrote:
Raphael,

The artist, Raphael, is my favorite among the Renaissance era. He was able to portray the light energy that his subject ejected.

That is a cool metaphor Gracie, I was unaware of Raphael's 'abilities'. But if you read more of my posts you will see that I often talk about fire and thermodynamics...the study of light and heat.
Fire is a rapid oxidation with the release of heat and light.
Study heat closely and you will find clues to your metaphorical Satan, study light and you will begin to understand how you will be 'saved' by the Messiah, which I believe to be an event and not a person. (But if a person does show up for the event, remember it will be the Jesus within YOU)
So essentially contained, embodied within Fire we see the characteristics of a Jesus and a Satan, the Yin and Yang, your Saint and Human.
Jesus controls the light, we do not measure darkness, Satan however has the technologies born of Fire, and he controls the light and the heat born of terrestrial resources.
We do not measure cold; cold is only measured as an absence of heat.
And who Gracie in the Geo-Political game is trying to control the resources that provide the heat and light necessary for a lifestyle a lifestyle born of free will?
Feeding an out-dated economic system called capitalism that needs growth to survive.
Capitalism vs. Mother Nature is the reality.

The Bible stands as is. We can interpret as we may, but it stands as is. Mary is the key name we need to revisit. Mary is used as the name of the mother of God, and the whore that Jesus forgave. This describes a saint and a human. Isn't Jesus a saint and a human?

We have celebrated many years in the name of Jesus. But have we celebrated Mary, who gave birth to him?

I believe we are living in times that the Marian energy is appearing all over the planet. Mary birthed Jesus. She came before Jesus. We must honor that energy if we are to encarnate the next level of evolution.

And in Mary the Blue Lily we see the Saint and the Human.
Why were we presented with 2 Marys?
I think it is obvious, the same reason we are often presented with 2 pillars or 2 tablets of stone, pairs of animals or simply man and woman.
Duality.
Mary the Saint equals good.
Mary the whore equals bad, the abomination.
The Old Testament essentially as part of the ‘Exodus’ from Egypt replaced all of the former earthly powers of nature and fertility attributed to the Goddesses with the 2 Marys. The two feminine aspects represented by water and earth, expressed by the Kabbalists as the Hebrew letters heh and heh. The two masculine elements are air and fire, yod and vav respectively.
I believe we have been receiving the Marian (my sister’s name is Marion) Energy that you speak of since the ozone holes began opening up.

Now that we have an ozone hole over the North Pole, the cosmic rays entering our atmosphere unimpeded have the ability to alter the existing magnetic fields surrounding our earth.
I believe it is a change in the color of light that signals the event, that the ‘Apocalypse’ has indeed been triggered.
The colors blue and red represent the ‘visible light spectrum’, outside which exists, microwaves and radiowaves.
Ultraviolet blue and infrared are the boundaries.

And yes in symbolism we see the messengers of light being associated with the color blue, not to mention in atomic attraction, the polarity of the atom is further described as red or blue. This is essentially due to the Doppler effect and red shift and blue shift.
Water is often associated with blue and it is further associated with purification and life giving qualities.

Jesus wore a blue robe, Odin had a blue mantel, Krishna and Vishnu had blue skin, the Hopi talked of the Saquasohuh Kachina (the Blue Star) and we also have Mary the Blue Lily.

How important is 'Biblical Blue'?
The following is true blue...

The color blue in the flag of Israel derives from the ancient dye tekhelet, mentioned many times in the bible (Numbers 15:37-39). This color was used to dye a thread of the ritual fringes, or tzitzit that all Jewish males are commanded to wear, and which are tied to the corners of the ritual garment, the tallit. This is a specific color, derived from the dye produced by the snail Murex trunculus, known in Hebrew as the hilazon. This is the same dye known historically as Tyrian purple. The confusion of shades comes from the fact (rediscovered recently) that when wool dyed with the dye from Murex was exposed to sunlight, the dye became a bright blue, but when the dyed wool was hidden from light, the color produced was that of royal purple. This change is due to the exposure of the compound dibromoindigo (purple) to ultraviolet light, producing the compound indigo (blue, chemically identical to the vegetable dye). This can be an explanation why some Israeli flags (in the past) were almost colored purple, while others are sky blue — these two colors were seen as deriving from the same natural source (the Hebrew word argaman was used for the purple shade). This color is of immense symbolic importance in Judaism and was used in many articles in the Temple in Jerusalem as well, including the outer robe of the high priest.

Interesting that the exposure to ultraviolet light altered the pigmentation.

It changed the pigmentation from purple, which is a blending of blue and red. Tyrian Purple also represents the color of royalty. But royalty is an illusion. After all what does it mean or imply symbolically “when the dyed wool was hidden from light, the color produced was that of royal purple?”

Is our reverence for King’s and Queens borne of darkness?
And the messenger Ultraviolet radiation actually helps “get the red out!
Yes what I see in the future is a ‘contraction’, toward a matriarchal future society where we acknowledge that there indeed exists a need for effective and efficient ‘sustainable’ development.
This of course follows an epoch of patriarchal expansionisms, where ALL isms where born of masculine thought; we witnessed not only the spreading of the sciences, business and commerce but also the seeds of patriarchal, theological boy’s clubs and secret societies.
And what is the symbolism we find in the color red, where does it lead us, what conclusions can we arrive at?

There are no coincidences.
Our health is now subject primarily to the effects of ultraviolet blue ‘light’ radiation. Stay indoors, wear sunscreen, and hide from the sun or is it from the son of god from which we are hiding by working indoors during the day and partying all night.

And this light spectrum UV is very, very good at purifying dirty virus and bacteria laden water. We are comprised primarily of water, are we not?
Mother Earth and we(the macro and the micro) share the same ratio of water content, about 70-75%.
(And on an even bigger scale this is the same ratio as Dark Matter in the universe. (psst I do not believe in coincidences, in a world contracting, I see only convergence and intersection)

Think of the UV radiation as a global 'baptism'.
And do you feel any of what I say to be a truth?
The Apocalypse has been triggered, has it not?

But here is the real dilemma, how are you going to treat your fellow man in a world that is about to contract, into a world of conflict, conflicts manufactured as resource wars, resources used for material comforts used to feed the deflated and defeated ego?
Solely or is souly, are our efforts only to help keep these Princes’ of Darkness clothed in Purple dyes, or is it lies?
How will you behave when you see the whites of his eyes, your shadow?
No need too. Push a button. Poof. The illusion created by the modern day mythmakers is dealt with.

And hydrogen is THE primary building block from which All life seems to emanate. And hydrogen is the hermaphrodite god from which all life arose. It is number 1 on the Periodic Table of Elements and it is the ONLY element so far identified that has only 1 proton and 1 electron.
Sounds like the Sun of God, from which all life in our galaxy emanates, doesn’t it?

Here is one possible future scenario …

Evidently there is a bulge in the mid-Atlantic ridge…It reminds me of the very ancient tale of Gaea who was created by Chaos, she then gave birth to Uranos from her side, in an immaculate fashion I might add.
Are you sitting down?
Our mom who is 4.5 billion years old might be pregnant, again.
Her pulse is quickening and I believe her expected date of delivery is around the winter solstice, Dec. 21, 2012.
And of course the birth would be messy, unattended, and long ago abandoned by the stewards. This birth is the ‘messiah’ and it is an event where earthquakes (the contractions), precede the volcanoes (the breaking of the waters followed soon afterward by the tsunamis and the molten waters below delivering fertility.)
But you ask with skeptism what triggered the event, the pregnancy?

Sin.
Is not the earth an abomination, a comprised creation?
Sin is the trail of energy we all leave as an energetic footprint, it is the entropy we create.
Once we reach a point of 25% Entropy accumulated it triggers an event.
We breached the 1st Law of Thermodynamics, which was inevitable.
The 2nd Law explained how the penalty for the breach would accrue.
The 3rd Law is the sentence and all sentences run concurrently.

But I may add this may only be science fiction.
The facts are however starting to collate.
Is it too late?
Do you know how much easier it is to get up in the morning realizing there is something really big planned. Bigger than anything I could EVER come up with and I may be witness to it?
The pressure is off.
I might add, I have become one stubborn little independent lamb and I continue to stray, but gravity always brings me back.
And from the higher vantage points I have sometimes reached, I see how the flock have been led to the edge by the many wolves' dressed in a Sheppard’s robe, and already many have fallen.

I would further connect feminine energy, the contraction phase of the waveform, to the Goddess of course. And I would further connect the Goddess to the gravitational forces.
Gravity is the weakest of the 4 forces but it exerts its influence over the greatest range.
And it is when we finally re-connect and acknowledge a symbiotic relationship to the elemental earth that we may finally resurrect the Goddess within the collective consciousness.
Gravity stands alone amongst the pantheon of the 4 Gods of physics.
Unified are Nuclear Strong, Nuclear Weak and Electro-magnetism.
Gravity the Goddess stands alone.
And Quantum Gravity (the Theory of Everything) may re-unite her with her family.
Is not living in a 'material world' the result of the Goddess Gravity?

Update from the world of science…
Moreover, a binary orbit motion of our sun provides a solution to a number of solar system formation theory enigmas including angular momentum. For these reasons, BRI has concluded our sun is most likely part of a long cycle binary system.

A binary system is two stars gravitationally bound orbiting a common center of mass. The stars can be of the same or differing sizes and orbits can be as short as a few days or as long as thousands of years. The short ones are easy to detect, the long ones difficult, some probably impossible to detect because of the very long observation period required.

While there is no obvious visible companion star to our Sun, there could be a dark binary, such as a brown dwarf or possibly a relatively small black hole, either of which might be very difficult to detect, without accurate and lengthy analysis.

Beyond direct detection – one way to determine if we are in a binary system is to see if the Sun is curving through space. To us on Earth that means we should experience a gradual “changing orientation to inertial space.” Such a phenomenon is observed as the precession of the equinox.

www.binaryresearchinstitute.org...

Another tool for detection will be to note the color of the light waves between these ‘two sons/ suns’ and if the light is blue the waves between the suns are being compressed…it would mean they, each on their own orbits, are getting closer to each other…

The messengers always arrive as True Blue and that seems to be the pattern.
And the Swastika may perhaps be the esoteric link to a pre-historic truth that suggests it is a symbol with many meanings, perhaps it is indicating the movement within 3Dimensions of Space on all levels existing throughout the microcosm > macrocosm.

Andre Brissard, the most reliable of the French writers on the Nazis and the occult says that the left-handed swastika turns in the direction of the earth’s rotation: hence it symbolizes the solar wheel, the benefic fire of heaven, expansion, creation, evolution and fertility and is the ‘Wheel of the Golden Sun’.
The right-handed swastika is the ‘Wheel of the Black Sun’ representing the earthly fire recreated by man and the quest for political hegemony in opposition to the Fire of Heaven.

Could the swastika, a symbol from long ago, a pre-historic symbol, pre-dating by thousands of years written language, could it be indicating that there does exist a binary star?
Is this a twin to our sun, a Judas to our Son of God?
A Black Son / Sun and a Golden Son / Sun?

Would this be a secret worth suppressing?
I am curious, are there many tales from the past, stories about the sun rising in the west, or of two suns apearing?

And of course a binary star supports the respected mythologist Joseph Campbell’s contention that once bound in matter, we have entered the field of pairs and opposites. Campbell and Jung referred to this as duality.
May I suggest we start to look at relationships as binary?

Namaste

Raphael

_________________
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.

Due to the length of your post Kachina, it looks like I cannot quote directly above. But, I'll do my best to address points and answer questions.

I've heard of numerology but not colourology. There is a religion that does believe in the "powers and meanings of colours" but Christianity isn't it.

Satan didn't look metaphorical to me, and I wasn't about to say that to his face.

Yin-yang, the two parts of the "Tai Chi" diagram is associated with an unrelated eastern religion. Daoist philosophy works with it, Christianity does not. The incorporation of pagan symbols and beliefs is not what Christ encouraged.

Is Capitalism vs. "Mother-nature" a new religion? Sounds like a mix of Marxist/Lennin philosophy and ancient celtic beliefs.

Jesus was not a saint or just human.

Where is "mother of God" in the Bible? And where does it to say to celebrate Mary?

Where is "the next level of evolution" in the Bible?

Mary does not equal good:

Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

Luke 8:20-21
"Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you."

He replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice."

I don't know where you get the concept of Mary being a whore.

We'd already talked about the swastika on the other thread. Not Christian and you've yet to substantiate otherwise.

The questions at the end of your post are incoherent, sorry I cannot help there.

As far as prophecy you'd listed, here's one:

Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

saint4God how can you possibly know what anybody said 2000 years ago when we are not sure what went on in the White House between Monika and Bill's wee willie?

All of those quotations are mind-boddling...
I need to repeat how I responded to you on another thread.

Now I have come across your 'kind' before saint4God.
What kind?
The flock who cling to faith, blindly.
You always have an answer ready for all secular enquiry.
But I suggest a new game here.

I have quickly ended debates with your 'kind' about the authenticity of your HIStory when I suggest we discuss real history and not your scripted HIStory.

Can you discuss history without making reference to your Biblical texts provided to you by your Temple priests?
I want real proof of HIS existence, cast in stone perhaps like the temples of Mithras, temples which were trashed by the Christians. No coincidence here as I try to make my point.
Or the temples of meso-America again trashed by the Christians...see a pattern?
Can you talk about history without referring to your HIStory texts?
How Jesus was saving the heathens...when in fact contrary to the Church saving the world, the truth is much of the pillaged treasures ended up in the Vatican and those weilding power.
Should we mention the crimes against humanity?
How 100 million indigenous Americans were reduced to 10 million in only 150 years after the arrival of the cruxifix in the New World.

Ok saint4God here is another example...so how old is the earth?
Discuss it without using the Bible as a reference guide.
Now that is the kind of dialogue I am interested in...not your foolish scripted HIStory that you obviously believe in literally.

It was meant to be taken figuratively.
Literal translation has led to all 3 western religions interpreting the scriptures as naming each of them the Chosen people...do you not see a problem with this kind of racism directed at the rest of the world?

That's your problem...why you refuse and cannot see an obvious truth, you have been blinded by literal interpretation.

A lifetime of invested belief thus comes crashing down, it is difficult to let go...this is the archetype we find in The Tower Card in the tarot.

namaste

Raphael

Originally posted by Kachina
saint4God how can you possibly know what anybody said 2000 years ago

Hm...Because I can read?

Originally posted by Kachina
when we are not sure what went on in the White House between Monika and Bill's wee willie?

I care not about this situation.

Originally posted by Kachina
All of those quotations are mind-boddling...

It's easier to go right to the source than for it to be filtered through me.

Originally posted by Kachina
I need to repeat how I responded to you on another thread.

No need, as I will repeat myself as well as I have already responded:

Originally posted by Kachina
Now I have come across your 'kind' before saint4God.
What kind?
The flock who cling to faith, blindly.
You always have an answer ready.

I see. Well, you're wrong. I could not accept things blindly, I had to go through a slice of hell because I refused to believe anything unless I saw it. I haven't had a "flock" for nearly a decade in the faith. And, I wish I did always have an answer ready, but I take each sentence as it comes. But, by all means doctor, do go on about me. What else you got about me?

Originally posted by Kachina
But I suggest a new game.

I have no time for games here, sorry.

Originally posted by Kachina
I have quickly ended debates about the authenticity of your HIStory when I suggest we discuss real history and not your scripted HIStory.

Feel free to expand upon my history. Nothings more fascinating to me than someone who already knows my past before they meet me.

Originally posted by Kachina
Can you discuss history without making reference to your Biblical texts provided to you by your Temple priests?

I have no Temple priests, so I guess that's a yes. Yes, I can talk about history without the Bible. Does it matter? Not really.

Originally posted by Kachina
Can you?

See above redundant grasshoppah.

Originally posted by Kachina
Ok saint4God here is an example...so how old is the earth?

I don't know. I'm guessing a few million. Still under debate in many communities.

Originally posted by Kachina
Discuss it without using the Bible as a reference guide.

Already did.

Originally posted by Kachina
Now that is the kind of dialogue I am interested in...not your foolish scripted HIStory that you obviously believe in literally.

Glad I could accomodate your interest. I'll take me being literal as a compliment, though don't feel it's deserved. There's much I have to learn.

Originally posted by Kachina
It was meant to be taken figuratively.

*shrugs*

Originally posted by Kachina
That's your problem...

Tell me doctor, about my problems.

Originally posted by Kachina
why you refuse and cannot see an obvious truth.

Tell this obvious truth, this is what we are here for.

Originally posted by Kachina
A lifetime of invested belief comes crashing down...this is the archetype we find in The Tower Card in the tarot.

Sketchy allegorical allusions. Please be specific.

Care to respond to these this time? Are we done this pointless exercise, or shall we both play "cut & paste" some more?

[edit on 28-8-2006 by saint4God]

Kachina,

I read your posts with great interest and your comment about the Vatican Hording the worlds greatest teachings and Christian armies erasing ancient teachings and libraries bought a smile to my face.

As you are aware no doubt, everything in this world is made of vibrations. Colours themselves have there own vibration so I can see how colours play a major part in ritual and also in spiritual matters.

The information about the UV light was very interesting, thank you for sharing that.

As for relationships being binary we only have to look at ourselfs. Even our biology works in duality. 2 Hemispheres of the brain, 2 sides to the heart, 2 lungs etc etc.

Have you ever heard the theory that we Humans were made in relation to the mathamatical equation PHI, the golden mean? it might not relate to 'how he will come' but it certainly relates to duality and the 'maths' of the Earth.

Why argue about semantics mainly significs and cut straight to the chase, even though for the record there was a 'jesus' the 'christ'....

I really appreciate what dAlen has to say at the top oh' thee page here...

although love was not something Jesus tried.. lol, he did it. he was it. that is what Christ is, Love, acceptance of ALL things however be it.

and what all these religeons refer to when they speak of 'die to yourself' or being born again, has been shown scientifically to be the contraction of the left hemisphere to meet the right hemisphere... the left being your cognitive, reason, logic driven hemisphere... and the right being your imaginitive, 'childish' side...
Which is the reason for Hemi-Sync Products and a lot of research by The Monroe Institute


All these branches of study are bound together by the base of the tree, which is us... all of these studies done by scientists because of the amount of daily discoveries is not being seen or studied by the other braches of science but we have the capabilities to piece things together, even if most of which seems to be conjecture.



I could give you my opinion as to how he will return, but once again conjecture.
Since everyone has given it their shot, I assume no torture in elaborating my experience, none 'hallucinogenic' or hearing voices or going to 'places'... just reading, observing and acting the 'felt' parts of the literature I read.

I believe the story has been extravagated even though there are no limits to anything, so I already contradict myself. although its pure awareness, one can observe something two ways, everyone constructs their neural-net differently, one will see its shape first, the other will see the color first. so that being said what will be a blazing star in one person will be a cancer in another, although I'm not saying that a blazing star won't strike the earth, because pure energy acts in accordance to observation so, it could 'materialize' although that is what our science calls a hologram to begin with, simply points of awareness.
So the as to how 'Christ' will return, because I don't believe JESUS said he was coming back, I believe he said when Christ returns........ soooo.... understanding what Christ is, is the key. and to put it short, its love. PURE LOVE, boundless...
But considering our old laws of physics are no longer applicable, we are starting to understand the nature of everything, the constituent of all things, pure energy.. formless.

So if this is true, all of you are arguing with yourself... you must be drunk if you get off on arguing that much with yourself.. lol It seems ludacris but picture pure energy arguing with pure energy.... Jesus was so gentle because he was tending to himself, he was so firm because he was shaking himself (a contradiction again, but think of it as setting a broken bone..) Jesus' best method for shaking himself was words, which is all he used. He explained just what I am explaining only in terms everyone understood at the time, if a physicist read this he would understand better now than the priests would. The physicist has now experienced the god of all things, and are trying to teach, but there are few ears to listen... Pure energy the father of all, which is us and all around us.

There was a reason why Jesus wanted no religeons formed for his sake, because it is forming the formless, limiting the unlimited... He said himself he will cast down the temples and rebuild it in three days, (which was his light body, pure energy, his body) ... the buildings for religeon have limited and bound christ, (love) ... but pure energy is everywhere in everything therefore it oozes out of everything, which is why jesus said to listen to the one who is alive in your presence, and hear what he has to say while he is living.

(59) Jesus said, "Take heed of the living one while you are alive, lest you die and seek to see him and be unable to do so."

another interesting quote

And again he shall provide an end for what has begun,
and a beginning for what is about to be ended.
who made me alive through a mystery of what he wills

"Now, since it has been said that you are my twin and true companion, examine yourself, and learn who you are, in what way you exist, and how you will come to be. Since you will be called my brother, it is not fitting that you be ignorant of yourself. And I know that you have understood, because you had already understood that I am the knowledge of the truth. So while you accompany me, although you are uncomprehending, you have (in fact) already come to know, and you will be called 'the one who knows himself'. For he who has not known himself has known nothing, but he who has known himself has at the same time already achieved knowledge about the depth of the all. So then, you, my brother Thomas, have beheld what is obscure to men, that is, what they ignorantly stumble against."

This last example is Christ explaining exactly what I have detailed in my lastest paper...My Paper Since you yourself are/is pure energy... not knowing yourself would be not knowing anything. Finally science and religeon are saying the same thing.

Yet I find this all the more 'frightening'

And Thomas answered, "Therefore I say to you, lord, that those who speak about things that are invisible and difficult to explain are like those who shoot their arrows at a target at night. To be sure, they shoot their arrows as anyone would - since they shoot at the target - but it is not visible. Yet when the light comes forth and hides the darkness, then the work of each will appear. And you, our light, enlighten, O lord."

Jesus said, "It is in light that light exists."

Thomas, spoke, saying, "Lord, why does this visible light that shines on behalf of men rise and set?"

The savior said, "O blessed Thomas, of course this visible light shines on your behalf - not in order that you remain here, but rather that you might come forth - and whenever all the elect abandon bestiality, then this light will withdraw up to its essence, and its essence will welcome it, since it is a good servant."

What he means here by bestiality is forms...

The paragraph before that explains how our form as flesh is nourished by similar 'creatures' (material forms), which change our material forms... like seeing a murder, which is 'nourishing' our vision, changes our material forms.. same thing as eating food.

Now Thomas answered and said to the savior, "Tell us about these things that you say are not visible, but are hidden from us."

The savior said, "All bodies [...] the beasts are begotten [...] it is evident like [...] this, too, those that are above [...] things that are visible, but they are visible in their own root, and it is their fruit that nourishes them. But these visible bodies survive by devouring creatures similar to them with the result that the bodies change. Now that which changes will decay and perish, and has no hope of life from then on, since that body is bestial. So just as the body of the beasts perishes, so also will these formations perish. Do they not derive from intercourse like that of the beasts? If it, too derives from intercourse, how will it beget anything different from beasts? So, therefore, you are babes until you become perfect."

I imagine we become perfect when we develope our light-body... in the mould of our flesh.

But it is interesting, applying quantum physics to the religeous 'theories' the idea portrayed in the first quote, sounds like material form in itself is going to 'cease' in a manner of speaking... and we are going to assume our 'true' form, which is our light-body... in which I imagine we can form anything, or exist anywhere with anyone.... it sounds fun... although daunting.

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
Kachina,


Have you ever heard the theory that we Humans were made in relation to the mathamatical equation PHI, the golden mean? it might not relate to 'how he will come' but it certainly relates to duality and the 'maths' of the Earth.

7th Chakra I have not heard of that theory. But it would interest me.
PHI, the Golden Mean and the Fibonacci numbers…all related

Yes I realize this is a very important link in my cosmogony. (Philosophy)
Why, because the Fibonacci numbers are plotted as rectangles and squares which spiral outward from the center.

In alchemy, squares and circles play a very important role.
It refers to an evolution or transmutation of matter to spirit.

Square = matter = 4
Circle = spirit = 5

We see this profoundly symbolized in DaVinci's Vitruvian Man.
And the two ‘Earth Mother’ symbols used by the Hopi, both labyrinths, are of these shapes, circular and angular.

And I have written elsewhere on this site expressing a belief that you can connect the Medicine Wheel (Hopi), the tarot (Cabalah/Judaism) and the Rosarium Philosophorum (alchemy) through the 21 sequential numbers common to all three, used in describing the various archetypes.

It has all become a game.
Called initiation.

Namaste

Raphael

p.s. interesting signature 7th Chakra.
Why 5 men dispersed to 4 corners?
Does not compute…who remained at the center?

Originally posted by Kachina
p.s. interesting signature 7th Chakra.
Why 5 men dispersed to 4 corners?
Does not compute…who remained at the center?

Its just something that came out of my head. Your right 5 men and 4 corners doesn't add up! I never noticed that before. I think I'll change it to 4 men. Thanks for pointing it out.

There is a book about how Humans were 'made' in accordance to PHI.
How we were made Book

Click for a close up of the book. I recommend it if these things interest you. It also refers to DaVinci's painting, and indeed some of Mozart's Symphonies. Explains how and why man's number is 6, very deep book.

PS: I recommend this movie too PI]

[edit on 29-8-2006 by 7th_Chakra]

Originally posted by Kachina


And I have written elsewhere on this site expressing a belief that you can connect the Medicine Wheel (Hopi), the tarot (Cabalah/Judaism) and the Rosarium Philosophorum (alchemy) through the 21 sequential numbers common to all three, used in describing the various archetypes.

I forgot to mention the Buddhist 21 Praises of Tara.

namaste

Raphael

how will he come?

With words, and words alone. The truth of the words shall be undeniable to any that oppose truth.