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Palestine Just Killed Itself

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posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 12:23 PM
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Nygdan, I agree with most of what you just said, but I do disagree on one part. Un-islamic religions have been oppressed by Muslims for centuries:

-The Yezidis are considered untouchables by Muslims, and are persecuted in Turkey (along with other Kurds).

-The Druze had most of their people killed until their theologians decided to change their religion from a highly nationalistic identity, to the current "Collaborationist" creed in which the rebirth of the soul and not the keeping of their former laws is the central concern of the average Druze.

-Christians have been massacred in Islamic territories for centuries. Palestine and Eygpt were the most Christianized areas IN THE WORLD in the 8th century. Byzantium was a developed and prosperous society and at least nominally Christian before muslim slaughters. Maronite Christians were massacred in Lebanon before 1948. Mecca and Medina were ethnically cleansed of all Christians by Mohammed and his followers. The Turks genocided 1 million Armenians in the first world war, I could go on , and on, and on.....

-Jews were also heavily persecuted, in fact it is generally estimated that Mohammed killed FAR more Jews than Hitler (Hitler killed about 1 million Jews according to most conservative Holocaust scholars). Mohammed and his followers actually killed SEVERAL million ( Why? read the Quran. Muslims treat Jews even worse than Christians, Mohammed was in fact poisoned by a Jewess who wanted revenge for her family's slaughter according to the Quran itself).

- Zoroastrians perhaps got even worse persecution than both Jews and Christians. Iran was nearly completely cleansed of all people of Mandaen beliefs (the Quran mocked these learned group of pagans as "idiotic fire worshippers"). Iran embraced Shiite Islam in part due to traditional Sunni Islam's brutal treatment of it's people. I wonder what religion they would have chosen if they didn't have sabers next to their necks.....


So no, Islam is definitely NOT peaceful to other creeds. Please don't bring the moral relativity "Christians this" , "Zionists that" into the picture, we are discussing Islam, and Islam only. Otherwise, I agree with you fully.



[edit on 27-1-2006 by Nakash]




posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by DaftDebunk
Do you think it´s something genetic or maybe something in their culture or is it poverty, desperation and repression? Or maybe something else?


Yikes, don't even think that it is genetic! That line of thinking leads to the darkside, from which only evil can come. Your latter thought is likely the true cause, i've read sections of the Koran, and if you take a fundamentalist radical view of what is said within it then you become the equivalent of somebody who does the same with the bible. That is, the view that those who do not follow your ways are savages/infidels/evil (fascist). Throw in other factors like like poverty, education, and repression and you have a recipe for evil committed through arrogance via ignorance.

- Attero

[edit on 27-1-2006 by Attero Auctorita]



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by DaftDebunk

Do you think it´s something genetic or maybe something in their culture or is it poverty, desperation and repression? Or maybe something else?


I would have to say the problem lies within their religion and their religous beliefs for the most part. That of course is just my humble opinion.



Are they not muslims all of them? Fatah & Hamas? Is it really in their religion?
To kill eachother? I thought I was just infedels, like me.
Is it not so that Christian europeans are the worst murderers in human history?



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by DaftDebunk



Are they not muslims all of them? Fatah & Hamas? Is it really in their religion?
To kill eachother? I thought I was just infedels, like me.


No, use the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan as examples they are killing far more Muslims then Americans. One could also use the attacks last year in Egypt and elsewhere where far more Muslims were killed then infidels as you call them as another set of examples.

Now just to make it clear I am talking about the fanatical ones not Muslims as a whole, and Palestine in general are one of the largest groups of fanatics there are since they have one objective and that is to annihilate all Jews while crushing the country of Israel. :shk:







posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by shots

Now just to make it clear I am talking about the fanatical ones not Muslims as a whole, and Palestine in general are one of the largest groups of fanatics there are since they have one objective and that is to annihilate all Jews while crushing the country of Israel. :shk:



Yes, thats sad, but I think its far more complicated than the Koran.
It´s a never ending downward spiral o violence. Religion is best friend with despair and so on.

Both sides sucks according to me. But hey, I can Imagine I would act just as crazy if I were born there.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
That line of thinking leads to the darkside, from which only evil can come.


Thank You Master Yoda for your wisdom, but here on Earth the Palestineans have made their goals crystal clear.....to Kill all Jews and drive them into the ocean.

You mentioned poverty, repression and depression as the reason for the Palestineans to act out...well, their violent actions certainly would not promote foreign investment and thats why there is no jobs and there never will be until they can act like Human-Beings.

Maximu§



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus

Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
That line of thinking leads to the darkside, from which only evil can come.


Thank You Master Yoda for your wisdom, but here on Earth the Palestineans have made their goals crystal clear.....to Kill all Jews and drive them into the ocean.


So you take the opposite view of mine, and believe that the reason they are "evil" and want to drive the Jewish peoples "into the ocean" is in their genes? They have a "terrorist", "radical fundamentalist muslim", or "fascist" gene?

Is it our responsibility as humans with good genes to cleanse the earth of their bad genes?

- Attero

Edit: I may be completely ignorant of the Palisteneans, but does every single one of them really want to kill the Jewish people (as you assert in your sweeping generalization)?

[edit on 27-1-2006 by Attero Auctorita]



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
So you take the opposite view of mine, and believe that the reason they are "evil" and want to drive the Jewish peoples "into the ocean" is in their genes? They have a "terrorist", "radical fundamentalist muslim", or "fascist" gene?

Is it our responsibility as humans with good genes to cleanse the earth of their bad genes?


I don't think its "genetic". The Palestineans have been raised and spoon-fed hatred for Jews since birth, so their not born with it.

Now, its all they have and it will lead to their ruin. Im not saying their gonna be wiped out, but their pretty much "walled in" and they will remain so until they can act like Human-beings.....if thats even possible.

Maximu§



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 03:06 PM
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Quote from External Source:

GAZA, Jan. 26, 2006 — Mariam Farahat, who was elected to the Palestinian parliament, can work a crowd like a veteran politician — shaking hands and greeting supporters. When she gets on the stage at a Hamas rally, she is the star attraction. She was one of Hamas' most popular candidates in Wednesday's election.
In Gaza, Farahat is known as Um Nidal, or Mother of the Struggle — a mother who sent three of her six sons on Hamas suicide missions against Israeli targets.


abcnews.go.com...



This is the problem with the Palestinian people. This women is a national hero. She sent her sons off to be suicide bombers with her blessing. This type of thinking is not breed into people, it is taught. Until this type of thinking is changed there will never be peace in the region. You can not reason with someone like this, what is the point!



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
How about replacing communists with "Soviets" instead of making such a grand generalization that communism is in the same league as Nazism?

Nah.


but does every single one of them really want to kill the Jewish people (as you assert in your sweeping generalization)?

Apparently 75% of them suppport that platform.

I'm pretty shocked, to tell the truth, I had thought that they'd not vote in hamas in such large numbers. After all, if they actually want to get rid of isreal, you'd think that they'd actually fight against them.

Anyway, imo, its foolish to say its genetic or that each and every palestinian wants to destroy israel and won't settle for a two state plan. However, when 75% of the palestinians vote for Hamas, well, it doesn't bode well.


Originally posted by DaftDebunk
Do you think it´s something genetic

How could anything as complex and dependant on sociology and history and politics as this be 'genetic'?


Originally posted by Nakash
Nygdan, I agree with most of what you just said, but I do disagree on one part. Un-islamic religions have been oppressed by Muslims for centuries:

For my own part, the fact that the islamic areas of the world also exhibit the greatest religious diversity in the world, and that that christianized areas, like europe and america, have, well, the lowest, speaks volumes. Excluding, of course, the modern period.




[edit on 27-1-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 03:16 PM
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Just think if the muslims put as much energy into a democracy and education and colleges and inventions as they do in hatred and killing, they might actually be as successful as the rest of the world. Pity

Train



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by BigTrain
Just think if the muslims put as much energy into a democracy and education and colleges and inventions as they do in hatred and killing, they might actually be as successful as the rest of the world. Pity
Train


Agreed, and I also agree with WHOFLUNGUM's statements.

You know what I think this clash between factions is all about??

Its all about MONEY!!...CASH!!!

Who is gonna control the flow of money into Palestine......both factions want Isreal DEAD, but who gets to control all that free money that pours in from all around the world? Hamas crooks or Fatah crooks?

Both factions are made up of Crooked, Murdering Liars who I would'nt even trust to mow my lawn.

Maximu§

[edit on 033131p://555 by LA_Maximus]



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
And no Israel is NOT a Jewish homeland. It is an illegitimate Zionist STATE


No. It's a soverign country. One of ~ 192 in the world.
Formally and officially recognized by the UN and almost every
other country in the world.

'Palestine' is something that doesn't exist as a country.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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The surrounding Arab states supported the Palestinian Arabs in rejecting both the Partition Plan and the establishment of Israel, and the armies of six Arab nations attacked the newly formed State of Israel. Over the next 15 months, Israelis captured and annexed an additional 26% of the Mandate territory west of the Jordan river. Most of the Arab population fled or were expelled during the war. (Estimates of the final refugee count range from 600,000 to 900,000 with the official United Nations' count at 726,000. According to official estimates at the time of the British Mandate, the total count of the non-Jewish population in 1945 was about 1,211,000, so there might be some inconsistency between the estimates.) The continuing conflict between Israel and the Arab world resulted in a lasting displacement that persists to this day.

Source.
I think, If I was forced from my land and my home given up to a different people, it matters not who, then my anger would be passed down through my family, and one day, sooner or later, I would seek not only the return of myself and my people to the land that they have inhabited for centuries, but also retribution against those who stole it from me. I would not be out for them because of their religious beliefs, but for their actions against my own people. Maybe in such circumstances, the only way you can attempt to understand these people, is to put yourself in their position. As far as I can tell, IMO the religion is an excuse. The arguments that the people living in Palestine and Gaza etc want all Jews dead is, again, IMO false. These people want the land that they see as their birthright, and where I may be living on the other side as far as the politics of the situation is concerned, I can totally see where these people are coming from.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by Implosion
I think, If I was forced from my land and my home given up to a different people, it matters not who, then my anger would be passed down through my family, and one day, sooner or later, I would seek not only the return of myself and my people to the land that they have inhabited for centuries, but also retribution against those who stole it from me. I would not be out for them because of their religious beliefs, but for their actions against my own people.


Then that would be Isreal and not Palestine as you seem to assume, since the land in question was originally taken from the Jewish by the Romans according to some sources and kindly note the land in question was theirs long before Allah was even born.

en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 1/27/2006 by shots]



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 07:18 PM
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shots

Call me stupid by all means, but I think I've missed your point. I'm talking about the anger which stems from fresh wounds. Roman Empire? I don't think I understand the relevance. I am not talking about Biblical fairy stories, I am talking about the establishment of the modern state of Israel.


In 1947, following increasing levels of violence by militant groups together with unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations, the British government decided to withdraw from the Palestine Mandate. The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, Jewish and Arab, giving about half the land area to each state. Jerusalem was planned to be an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status.

Immediately following the adoption of the Partition Plan by the UN General Assembly (on November 29, 1947), the Arab leadership rejected the plan and launched a guerrilla war that included attacks on Jewish civilians. The Irgun Tsvai Leumi retaliated with attacks on Arab civilians.

On May 14, 1948, before the expiry of the British Mandate of Palestine at midnight of May 15, 1948, the State of Israel was proclaimed.


Source.

Note if you will, the date. May 15th, 1948. I'd say that to many people, still a fresh memory, still a fresh wound. Roman Empire? Seriously give me a break.

Deny Ignorance.

[edit on 27/1/06 by Implosion]

[edit on 27/1/06 by Implosion]



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by Implosion
shots

Call me stupid by all means, but I think I've missed your point. I'm talking about the anger which stems from fresh wounds. Roman Empire? I don't think I understand the relevance. I am not talking about Biblical fairy stories, I am talking about the establishment of the modern state of Israel.



The point is the land that was taken from Palestine in 47 or 48 was the very same land that was taken from the Jewish circa 1000-800 bc.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Implosion
shots

Call me stupid by all means, but I think I've missed your point. I'm talking about the anger which stems from fresh wounds. Roman Empire? I don't think I understand the relevance. I am not talking about Biblical fairy stories, I am talking about the establishment of the modern state of Israel.



The point is the land that was taken from Palestine in 47 or 48 was the very same land that was taken from the Jewish circa 1000-800 bc.



I'm talking about the effects of the recent memory of the displacement of up to 1,211,000 people being at the root of the Palestinians anger towards Israel and therefore, a contributing factor in the election of Hamas. What you have posted is totally and utterly irrelevant.




posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Implosion
shots

Call me stupid by all means, but I think I've missed your point. I'm talking about the anger which stems from fresh wounds. Roman Empire? I don't think I understand the relevance. I am not talking about Biblical fairy stories, I am talking about the establishment of the modern state of Israel.



The point is the land that was taken from Palestine in 47 or 48 was the very same land that was taken from the Jewish circa 1000-800 bc.



Well 2000+ years is pushing the limits for a back dated claim imho


Hopefully Hamas will change their ways and quickly show this over the next few months,although personally i sadly feel it is very much a long shot and events in the area (Iran's recent comments combined with the recent electoral results in Palestine) are spiralling out of control and it's only a matter of time before a new wave of 'martyrs' appear in cafes,buses etc and the retalitory air strikes start.

We can always hope that somehow things over there remain relatively peaceful,however i tend to agree with most posters that the recent elections will only lead to even more termoil.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Implosion
What you have posted is totally and utterly irrelevant.



And just how is is irrelevant when history states the land was taken from the Jewish? they did not cede the land by treaty it was taken from them outright, there in lies the difference.

All the UN did was give the state of Isreal back to them which was their own centuries ago.




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