Does anyone not support global warming ?

I have been looking around on various forums with anyone who doesnt believe that global warming is really happening . I personally think its just another cycle in the earths climate . Plus I found these facts on a site I thought were intresting . www.numberwatch.co.uk/ten_facts_about_global_warming.htm

-Britain is one degree Celsius cooler now then it was around 1806

-Greenland got its name from the verdant pastures that attracted the Norse settlers under Eric the Red in 986. They carried on their normal way of life(based on cattle, grain, hay and herring) for 300 years until the Little Ice Age, when they were driven off by the encroaching ice and Inuit took over. The ice and the inuit are still there.

- The only evidence of significant warming comes from mainly non-western stations that are probably ill maintained or those that are contaminated by the Urban Heat Island Effect

Oh I would definately say that the idea of Global Warming is suspect, especially after I read State of Fear, which dispite the fictional story line (hopefully at least, things have a way of coming true it seems) had plenty of cited information pointing to quite the contrary of the common idea of Global Warming. That being said that doesnt mean I think were having no impact on the world, just not to the degree the fearmongers seem to want us to think.

There are two types of global warming. Natural global warming which we are experiencing and man made global warming which is a myth.

alternateheaven.. love your php siggy.

Did you catch this part of Gores speech the other day:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
To take another example, scientific warnings about the catastrophic consequences of unchecked global warming were censored by a political appointee in the White House who had no scientific training. And today one of the leading scientific experts on global warming in NASA has been ordered not to talk to members of the press and to keep a careful log of everyone he meets with so that the Executive Branch can monitor and control his discussions of global warming.

This really struck home for me, as a few of us were discussing global warming in chat a couple of weeks ago, and I went to the NASA home page to find an article which they had up about six months back, talking about the earth’s energy levels being unbalanced due to warming. They had articles archived back for years, but this one was gone…
I believe there was even a thread on this site that mentions that article.

"We are all in an SUV travelling at a 100 MPH towards a brick wall and we are all arguing at who gets to sit where" David Suzuki

Don't take anyones word for it on this Website as all you'll get is armchair climatologists like Indy here and paid for by the Oil company pundits claiming it ain't our fault

Contact and talk to actual accredited Climatologists and get their opinion. I've learned something very important recently, science is mostly an Oral discipline where information is exchanged mostly from mouth to ear, not Peer-Reviewed paper to the Eyes to the brain. Ignore the web. Ignore the Oil companies. Ignore the Government and go straight to the experts.

Actually armchair climatologists are about the only ones you can trust with this. Who are you going to trust? Oil companies? No. Governments? No. The so-called experts that you speak of that have to get their money from grants? No. The ones that you speak of make a career out of selling out. Their research will always support whatever the grant funder is paying for. If the checks stopped coming tomorrow for the old "man is evil" global warming then all those researchers will move on to someone else. Once people take the time to learn about the history of our planet they will realize how fully of nonsense these alarmists really are. The world is warming and it has been for thousands of years. This has nothing to do with man but everything to do with the earth and its natural cycles. But there is no money to extort when nature is to blame. Thats why the frauds running this have created this evil villain called man to blame for everything that happens in our world. Without a villain the checks stop flowing.

Definately watch out for the "experts." These are the same frauds that will tell you the antarctic is warming. Of course what they won't tell you is that their large sample included only the antarctic peninsula. Its the same ones that will quicly point out a piece of ice breaking off as a sign of global warming while failing to point out that the overall mass of the ice is increasing. Yeah.. those experts.

[edit on 1/23/2006 by Indy]

Originally posted by unbeltedjoker

-Britain is one degree Celsius cooler now then it was around 1806

The Central England Temperature record shows the average temperature in 1806 was 9.8c

In 2005 it was 10.44c

The 10 year average 1801 - 1810 works out at 9.11c whereas for the past 10 years it is 10.3c

So I'm not quite sure how they reach the conclusion it's actually 1c cooler now.

Modern measurements are supposedly adjusted to take into account the Urban Heat island effect. Whether they're adjusted by enough is, or course, another matter

btw don't take too much notice of anything you hear or read in the media - they're very good at taking things out of context in order to present a more dramatic story.

For example, following the results of a new, experimental, climate model programme it was announced that "temperatures could rise by 11c in the next 100 years". In fact, only one model run out of many thousands produced such a result, and some runs actually concluded there would be a cooling.

It's always best when you read a news story to try and find the original research paper on which it was based.

Originally posted by unbeltedjoker
The only evidence of significant warming comes from mainly non-western stations

This is not true. Indeed, the oldest records are from the west, where an interest in the weather has been going on for a long time.

that are probably ill maintained

There is no basis for that statement.

or those that are contaminated by the Urban Heat Island Effect

THe Heat island effect is infact understood and adjusted for. Please cite some data and information if you are going to make these statements.

alternateheaven
especially after I read State of Fear,

I liked that book too. However, its a fictional book, and the information that is presented is, more or less, cherry picked. Chricton is not a student of the earth sciences. He makes some interesting points through the book, however, please note, he hasn't published any examinations in a scientific journal on the topic.

essan
So I'm not quite sure how they reach the conclusion it's actually 1c cooler now.

The CET measures central england temp, not that of the entire island of Britain. Don't know where the OP is getting this information from though.

It's always best when you read a news story to try and find the original research paper on which it was based.

I agree with you here to the Nth degree. Its the papers that everyone needs to look at, the research methods, the mode of analysis, the logic, the data, the experiments. It doens't matter what a person's funding is, whether its from greenpeace of Shell. If they've made up conclusions, others won't be able to replicate it. If their method if faulty, it'll be in the paper. The general media is perhaps as bad as raw rumour on these things.

Well, I certainly don't trust the government, media or any other mainstream outlet to tell me the truth regarding weather.

While State of Fear is fiction, the author does provide plenty of NASA links you can check yourself. I don't see how graphs can lie.
Sure, the author may have an agenda. I think that agenda was not to trust what the MSM tells us about things like global warming.
And, now we hear that the government will decide what we hear

I'll make my own conclusions based on what indy and others are saying, thank you very much.
Mark me in the column for global warming is part of the earth's natural cycling.



[edit on 23-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

I support global warming. It was cold this morning! A few degrees warmer when I leave for work would be nice.


I think everyone supports the idea that the climate is warming. There is no scientific evidence that it is caused exclusively by human activities. The change is well within normal climate variations of the past and the human component, if any, is quite small.

I find it unfathomable to believe that one can pump TRILLIONS

of gallons of crude oil out of the ground,

over a period of about 100 years....

then BURN IT ALL... flames and fire.

and then claim:

The very idea of "human activity excellerating global warming" to be myth.

What happened to the second law of thermodynamics?

I suppose the chrome spinners balance the enegy equation?

Spinnin' nigga, spinnin',

-Sri Oracle

I live in Alaska and fully support global warming - I am waiting for the temperate rain forest I live in to become a tropical rain forest. OK - Just kidding.

Global warming has been going on for 15,000 years. There has been at least one period of global cooling since that time, known as the little ice age. I can step out my door and show you where the glacier was 400, 300, 200, 100, 50, 25, 10, and one year ago. Meaning that the ice has been receding for centuries and more.

Since I was taking geology classes, back in the 80's, I was exposed to the "fact" that all of our CO2 emmissions are causing global warming or cooling, depending on the year and the professor. My greatest memory was the fact that the ocean is a great CO2 sink, and should help eliminate CO2 from the atmosphere. Then again, if global warming was happening, we came up with the idea that global warming would actually cause global cooling, Because - warming atmosphere and oceans == more evaporation == more clouds == more slow == less snow melt == growing ice caps == more glaciers == ice age. However, this depends on the type of clouds generated, as some clouds keep heat in and some reflect heat back into space.

So, my personal opinion is that global warming is a reality, but not caused by CO2 and other emmissions. I do think that CO2 may aid in some temperature increase, but a minor and non-measureable increase (in the short-term). I also think that we should eliminate as much fossil fuel burinig as possible, but only because the by-products are not very good for the overall health of the environment and people.

Originally posted by dave_54
There is no scientific evidence that it is caused exclusively by human activities

Exclusively? No, of course not, there will allways be natural components.

The change is well within normal climate variations of the past

? What do you mean by this? The is good understanding of some of the facets that control global climate and none of those factors seem to explain this warming.
As far as being within past variation, thats really not meaningful. There have been times when the entire planet was utterly covered with ice, in the very distant past. There have been entire ice ages. And there have been periods where there was no ice at all at the poles. The natural variation is incredibly wide, so this statement isn't particularly useful.

and the human component, if any, is quite small.

Please provide a citation for this.

Originally posted by Nygdan

and the human component, if any, is quite small.

Please provide a citation for this.

A citation on something like this isn't worth the paper it is printed on. The reason is that it cannot be proven either way. That is why it is the global warming theory instead of the law of global warming. It remains unproven. People can speculate all they want. There is simply no way to prove it. Because the atmosphere is so reactive you don't know what is causing warming or cooling. Short of having a super volcanic eruption like Yellowstone or a meteor impact you just can't tell. Does increased levels of C02 cause warming or does warming cause CO2 levels to increase? There are arguments for each. And even if increasing CO2 can cause a temperature increase you just don't know by how much. And even if the temperature goes up a bit you don't know how the climate will respond. Maybe it results in additional warming. Maybe it increases evaporation enough to bring on cooling.

The theory simply cannot be proven. But keep in mind we were tricked into believing that the CFCs we were producing was creating the hole in the atmosphere over the Antarctic. People will still try and convince you that this is true. Yet scientists admit that the Ozone layer is effected by temperature changes. So cooling of the Antarctic could be the reason for the hole and absolutely nothing to do with man. Its easy to blame man. But there is just no proof. Just a theory that isn't even supported properly by models.

Nice post Indy.

Here is a quote and a link to an article that explains some of the issues:

"Because there is considerable uncertainty in current understanding of how the climate system varies naturally and reacts to emissions of greenhouse gases and aerosols, current estimates of the magnitude of future warming should be regarded as tentative and subject to future adjustments upward or downward."

Linky thing: www.globalwarming.org...

Originally posted by Nygdan

essan
So I'm not quite sure how they reach the conclusion it's actually 1c cooler now.

The CET measures central england temp, not that of the entire island of Britain. Don't know where the OP is getting this information from though.

There are seperate temperature series' for England and Wales, Scotland and N Ireland which collate data from far more stations, but these were only started in 1914.

The E&W series can be read here

(Edited to correct url)

[edit on 24-1-2006 by Essan]

We've only been keeping records for a short time. There are earth cycles, we've seen it with El Nino.

What this is all really about is job creation. People invent a scenario and predict disaster. They become "experts" and are assured of jobs from here on out.

No, I don't believe global warming. We're being taken for a ride.

[edit on 25-1-2006 by Alikospah]

I believe that Global Warming is just another catchcry from the scientists in their grab for more funding. First we had the "greenhouse effect" rammed down our throats until we were numb to it, now its "global warming"!! I tell ya what, it doesn't feel any bloody warmer this far south of the equator.

If there is anything to this, then I'm of the opionion that its cyclic, & because records haven't been kept for the past 10,000 years or so, it is now that they are shoving this down our thoats in an attempt to get us to do whatever it is they're wanting from us now.

Originally posted by Figjam
I believe that Global Warming is just another catchcry from the scientists in their grab for more funding. First we had the "greenhouse effect" rammed down our throats until we were numb to it, now its "global warming"!! I tell ya what, it doesn't feel any bloody warmer this far south of the equator.

If there is anything to this, then I'm of the opionion that its cyclic, & because records haven't been kept for the past 10,000 years or so, it is now that they are shoving this down our thoats in an attempt to get us to do whatever it is they're wanting from us now.

Global warming is - according to the theory - caused by the greenhouse effect. However it does not mean that everywhere on the globe gets warmer (any more than an ice age means everywhere gets colder).

The facts are that atmospheric CO2 levels are rising to a higher level, and at a faster rate, than at any time in the past few hundred thousand years (as determined by ice core studies). Isotopic studies have proven that that increase is due to human activity.

As for what people want you to do: well, maybe it is all a con. Maybe it's a last ditched attempt to force stupid, ignorant, humans to stop taking the earth for granted, polluting it like hell and treating energy like it's provided for infinity and for free.... Is it really so hard to switch the lights off?

Well i cant say i am a tree hugger who is fighting for the enviroment of the planet, and im not a lumberjack either. Im sitting on the fnece with global warming, i think humans are contributing to it, but there are natural causes behind it aswell.

Also im sure there is a thread on it somewhere on ATS, that i dont think anyone has mentioned here. A concept called Global Dimming. Wikipedia
So are we heating up the planet and dimming it at the same time?
Or is Global warming saving us from Global warming? Or vice versa?
In a sense we are dammed if we do and dammed if we dont.
I think we ride out this horse, and kick it over the finish line if we have to.