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Originally posted by WestPoint23
So your argument is that because we had two former dirty presidents we shouldn't give a hoot if the current president may be doing dirty things?
Did you give a hoot when those two former presidents were in office? Besides, the more important question is can you prove it’s “dirty”?
[edit on 21-12-2005 by WestPoint23]
Originally posted by UFObeliever
Bush should be impeached for violating the 4th amendment and abusing his executive powers.
Originally posted by UFObeliever
Warrentless searches are illegal. Searches include wire tapping American citizen's phone conversations. Problem solved it is illegal. Hope it clears things up.
§ 1802. Electronic surveillance authorization without court order; certification by Attorney General; reports to Congressional committees; transmittal under seal; duties and compensation of communication common carrier; applications; jurisdiction of court
(a) (1) Notwithstanding any other law, the President, through the Attorney General, may authorize electronic surveillance without a court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year if the Attorney General certifies in writing under oath that—
(A) the electronic surveillance is solely directed at—
(i) the acquisition of the contents of communications transmitted by means of communications used exclusively between or among foreign powers, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title; or
(ii) the acquisition of technical intelligence, other than the spoken communications of individuals, from property or premises under the open and exclusive control of a foreign power, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title; [e.g., defined as terrorists /angkor]
(B) there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person [e.g. citizen or perm. resident /angkor] is a party; and
(C) the proposed minimization procedures with respect to such surveillance meet the definition of minimization procedures under section 1801 (h) of this title; and if the Attorney General reports such minimization procedures and any changes thereto to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at least thirty days prior to their effective date, unless the Attorney General determines immediate action is required and notifies the committees immediately of such minimization procedures and the reason for their becoming effective immediately.
(2) An electronic surveillance authorized by this subsection may be conducted only in accordance with the Attorney General’s certification and the minimization procedures adopted by him. The Attorney General shall assess compliance with such procedures and shall report such assessments to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence under the provisions of section 1808 (a) of this title.
Originally posted by Seekerof
First off, you are not the president of the United States, therefore, you really have no clue as to what Bush had no need to do or what he did have need to do, especially in relation to the war on terrorism and national security.
Amendment IV.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation,
and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized
Originally posted by Intelearthling
You wouldn't happen to be sympathetic for Islamic extremist causes would you? President Bush is acting on powers granted to him by Conress in the wake of 9/11.
Does anyone here understand the importance of the orders that was issued by President Bush? Does anyone care if terrorists walk among us planning their next attack against us?
If there wasn't any surveillance and we were to come under attack again, the same people here who are critical of these orders would be condemning him for not doing something to stop the attack!
So what's it going to be? Stop them at any cost, even if it means some of the American peoples liberties are restricted or watch our women and children DIE!? It would be my belief that most Americans can grow accustomed to being "watched" than to bury innocent little children. Or is this what most Americans want? I don't think so!
[edit on 21/12/05 by Intelearthling]
And nice try on the "can you prove" question. The concern is to watch and look at the facts of something that "appears" dirty. To discern if it is or not.
Your post is an attempt to diminish the importance of that.
A blatant attempt.
I guess anybody that dare to step out and question the government is deemed a terrorist and treat to national security or just a radical Islam in disguised.
I guess we should be ashame for exercising our constitutional rights.
Originally posted by Intelearthling
So what's it going to be? Stop them at any cost, even if it means some of the American peoples liberties are restricted or watch our women and children DIE!? It would be my belief that most Americans can grow accustomed to being "watched" than to bury innocent little children. Or is this what most Americans want? I don't think so!
[edit on 21/12/05 by Intelearthling]
www.globalnewsmatrix.com...
What Drudge says:
Clinton, February 9, 1995: “The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order”
What Clinton actually signed:
Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) [50 U.S.C. 1822(a)] of the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year, if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that section.
That section requires the Attorney General to certify is the search will not involve “the premises, information, material, or property of a United States person.” That means U.S. citizens or anyone inside of the United States.
What Drudge says:
Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: “Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order.”
What Carter’s executive order actually says:
1-101. Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that Section.
What the Attorney General has to certify under that section is that the surveillance will not contain “the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party.” So again, no U.S. persons are involved.
Originally posted by brimstone735
Why exactly do you hate the constitution so much?
Originally posted by brimstone735
So, again I ask, why do you hate your country?
Originally posted by Intelearthling
Can you show me when and where at any time did I say I hated the Constitution of the United States of America? You can't. That's because I've never said it, public nor private. I regard the Constitution as one of the most important documents that can be granted to man.
Originally posted by Intelearthling
As in the above. Show where and when I've ever said that I hate the United States of America? You can't. That's because I've never said no such thing in public nor private. Besides, Where've you been for the past 4 years, 3 months and 10 days? Do you not realize, that as Americans, we have an important duty to be performed for future generations?
Originally posted by WestPoint23
Bush was caught in a lie! How can you trust him? Last year he said that searches still needed court ordered warrants but now we know those statements were lies.
It might interest you to know that the current debate and thread is not about illegal searches, but about phone calls conversations. I do hope you can get your facts straight.
Question for people on the Bush bandwagon about illegaly spying on Americans.
And it might be a moot point, but I’ll try on more time, can you please show me where President Bush broke the law? You can say it as much as you want, but words are cheap you know?
Bush gets slagged because he's a bad President and doesn't do good things for the nation.
That is a subjective view, you know that don’t you? It also might interest you to know that “bad” Presidents don't get re-elected by the majority of the American Citizens.
[edit on 21-12-2005 by WestPoint23]
Originally posted by WestPoint23
I guess anybody that dare to step out and question the government is deemed a terrorist and treat to national security or just a radical Islam in disguised.
Have I asserted such thing? I don't believe I have, what I have said however is that if you’re going to claim that the President broke the law, you should have proof and evidence.
I guess we should be ashame for exercising our constitutional rights.
Just like certain government officials have to be afraid to exercise their constitutional rights.
Right Marge?
Originally posted by curme
EDIT: To answer your question, previous Presidents made their activities known, look at the memos, so the courts, congress, and the senate had a right to challenge his decision. Bush did not.
Bush said that he authorized the surveillance more than 30 times, that it was reviewed about every 45 days by top legal officials, including his counsel and the attorney general, and that fresh intelligence assessments were part of each review. He also said the surveillance had been disclosed to congressional leaders in more than a dozen briefings.
Rep. Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House, acknowledged in a statement yesterday that she had been advised of Bush's decision "to provide authority to the National Security Agency to conduct unspecified activities," and has received several updates. She said she had "expressed my strong concern" during those briefings.
NSA