Why over Bush on the supposedly spy scandal when Clinton and Carter did the same thing?

Originally posted by Dronetek
It's all about the scare tactics folks. They want you to be more scared of the president than terrorists. In fact, terrorists arent even a threat, just president Bush.

For a Change I have to Agree with you 115%!



Yep - you Nailed it right there Buddy.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Still this is the man that said, Constitution is a, and I quote, "A God damned piece of paper" - is that Okey with you guys?

Souljah I have yet to see any evidence that verifies your claim, as such I would appreciate it if you did not assert that quote as being fact. Because it might just perhaps make you look like the liar.

Sure WP23!




Yep.

It's just a God Damn Piece of Paper.

And this time, he ain't Lyin'.

I think the real issue isn’t so much as "did Bush break the law," since that is still speculation at this point, but rather, why is it that time after time after time, we are seeing questionable behavior from this administration.
It all started with the shady win to get him into office, then this whole 9/11 fiasco, which to me, doesn’t seem as cut-and-dry as everyone would like to believe.
Then we have this unwinnable "war on terror."
The Patriot Act (If you dont agree with it Your not a Patriot)
Then lies about WMD
Lies about yellow cake.
Preemptive WAR on a sovereign nation.
A new lie spinning the reasons for war as "Bringing Freedom to the Middle East" once the old lies fell through the cracks.
Then we have the "OKing" of torture, until of course that was found out and stopped.
Then we have the whole Katrina disaster.
And now it is this (and i'm sure i missed some known reasons let alone what we dont know about)... I mean, what does it take to show that an administration is incompetent?
I saw a post that said "How many people were arrested because of these wiretaps...none...etc etc"
Doesn’t that make you wonder? All of these thousands of wiretaps and NOT A SINGLE PERSON ARRESTED?? And how would we know anyway? I mean, whats the point of all of these wiretaps if its shown to be ineffective? Ah, ineffective if your looking at it from the standpoint of catching bogeymen terrorist but not ineffective if all your doing is keeping tabs on dissenters, which can then be easily labeled as terrorist in this non-checked and balanced position.

It isn’t so much the singular act that makes me wonder about this administration, its the unnerving trend that they are developing...

From Souljah’s source
I’ve talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution “a goddamned piece of paper.

And I have also talked to the Easter Bunny who was present at the meeting, but sadly he doesn't confirm that Bush said such a thing. See my point?

I point that quote out because both of your sources use that statement as the sole proof for their story.

Then there is this from your second source.

I even hesitated to post this today, because Thompson is frequently an unreliable source of information, but something like this needs to be investigated and verified or refuted.

Nice try Souljah.

[edit on 26-12-2005 by WestPoint23]

It is quiet clear that there is a division in America that splits between Republicans(Conservitives) and Democrats(Liberals). We in America pick our side, just as in sports, and no matter what, cheer for our team.

This is a real dangerous way to run a nation. It is time that the current administrations policies and the way it conducts them is investigated.
It does not matter what any previous administration did, that is history.
What does matter is that any wrong. unethical or illegal acts done be brought under investigation.

If a real and truthful investigation is performed, then the facts will be clear to everyone. Those that back Bush should welcome this. To once and for all clear the doughts and rumors. As for those that do not support Bush, they to should welcome this, if there has been illegal power used or information manipulated, then a real investigation will bring this to light.

From the surface Bush started as an arrogent demanding person, if he did not do anything wrong, I want to know.

If anyone does not want to know, then they fear the truth. For them only the team they want to win is important, no matter what the cost to a nation.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Excuse me there, NinjaCodeMonkey is it? Can you please show me or prove to me that President Bush broke the law?

Arch Angel we’re not asserting that President Bush should do this or shouldn't do that, we are simply asking why there wasn’t as much media and public outcry from what those former presidents did as there currently is with President Bush. It’s not that hard of a concept to grasp.

[edit on 21-12-2005 by WestPoint23]

Umm... War crime's. The invasion of another country under false claims admited by president Bush himself of WMD's that DO NOT exist in Iraq. Putting Saddam under trial for crime's that were not the original intent of invading his country. Telling the UN security council to basicly F-Off when we were told NOT to invade Iraq, thus making the entire UN nothing more then a joke and pointless. If one country can ignore te UN, why can't other's? Admitting to lie to our allie's for gaining support and troop's to illegally invade Iraq. Unconstitutionally allowing agencie's the ability to break into our home's and invade our privacy under the false pretense of "security", and above all else, trying to hide the fact that it was done and then acting all high and mighty when people found out about it claiming he had the right.

Originally posted by Produkt

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Excuse me there, NinjaCodeMonkey is it? Can you please show me or prove to me that President Bush broke the law?

Arch Angel we’re not asserting that President Bush should do this or shouldn't do that, we are simply asking why there wasn’t as much media and public outcry from what those former presidents did as there currently is with President Bush. It’s not that hard of a concept to grasp.

[edit on 21-12-2005 by WestPoint23]

Umm... War crime's. The invasion of another country under false claims admited by president Bush himself of WMD's that DO NOT exist in Iraq. Putting Saddam under trial for crime's that were not the original intent of invading his country. Telling the UN security council to basicly F-Off when we were told NOT to invade Iraq, thus making the entire UN nothing more then a joke and pointless. If one country can ignore te UN, why can't other's? Admitting to lie to our allie's for gaining support and troop's to illegally invade Iraq. Unconstitutionally allowing agencie's the ability to break into our home's and invade our privacy under the false pretense of "security", and above all else, trying to hide the fact that it was done and then acting all high and mighty when people found out about it claiming he had the right.

This person you describe sounds remarkedly like a Leader Rather than a Follower, oh hang on a minute he is!! and The good people of the USA voted him in!!

God Bless America.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

This person you describe sounds remarkedly like a Leader Rather than a Follower, oh hang on a minute he is!! and The good people of the USA voted him in!!

God Bless America.

Oh yea... cuz suddenly it's ok to invade countrie's and lie about the reason. It's ok to allow thousand's of american live's to die when they could've been saved. Yes, your leader DID know it was going to happen. He had to ALLOW it to happen so he could "lead" the country into an illegal war for reason's we don't really know because those damn reason's your leader told us has changed so many damn time's. As for voting him in... No, we didn't. The supreme court did because the florida vote's were botched. Even IF they weren't, he still has NO legal right to invade any country and overthrow it's ruler for any reason. That's a war crime. Not leading us to any form of victory. He was of no threat to us and your "leader" admited to that when he said I LIED about the WMD's, and a whole bunch more he was caught lying about.

What a great leader you have there. Let me ask you this.... If North Korea build's a nuke and tell's the USA to back off it and we don't and they use it on us... is that N. Korea being a great leader protecting it's people from the USA policing it's country?

[edit on 1-1-2006 by Produkt]

Ok son if you and your clan think this was so Illegal why don't you drag us all before the World court, no wait save your time and money, ill tell you why, cause it isnt Illegal.

Thousand's of American Military dead, Bless there souls, these Warriors and defendors of the peace gave the Ultimate sacrifice in what has been one of the most un-bloody Wars in History, how many years? how many Lifes ? How many Soldiers Died in One day on the Somme ? you tell me mr holyier than freedom.

If these Glorious Men and Women didnt make the Ultimate sacrifice on the Field of battle in the Middle East, it would of been just of many Innocent Mums and Dads dead in Western countries as these Islamofascists took there Al Qaeda sponsored holiday's in Peace and democracy Loving Western nations.

Peace be with you.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Ok son if you and your clan think this was so Illegal why don't you drag us all before the World court, no wait save your time and money, ill tell you why, cause it isnt Illegal.

Thousand's of American Military dead, Bless there souls, these Warriors and defendors of the peace gave the Ultimate sacrifice in what has been one of the most un-bloody Wars in History, how many years? how many Lifes ? How many Soldiers Died in One day on the Somme ? you tell me mr holyier than freedom.

If these Glorious Men and Women didnt make the Ultimate sacrifice on the Field of battle in the Middle East, it would of been just of many Innocent Mums and Dads dead in Western countries as these Islamofascists took there Al Qaeda sponsored holiday's in Peace and democracy Loving Western nations.

Peace be with you.

Why do you keep evading the fact that our oh so wonderfull and mighty leader ADMITTED to lying about the reason's for the war? Admitted to lying about his so called evidence? Admited it was all to gain support and troops for the war? And since when was it legal to invade another country on the pretense of LIES? Open and admitted lies? Since when was great leadership meant to write new law's that evade the constitution and strip the american public of it's privacy and basic freedom's and right's?

Honeslty tho, it's rather SICK to use the death's of our military personel and civilian's to justify the very thing's that Bush admitted to lying about. They died without any good reason. They weren't sent into Iraq to free the people, they were sent there to finnish a family vendetta. The thousand's of live's that died on 9/11, died without just cause as they could have been SAVED because our mighty leader KNEW and IGNORED the fact's.

Not to mention you don't bother answering my question on if it's right for N. Korea to invade us for policing they're country. We are not the world police. We don't have any right to police any country and N. Korea has been telling us to back off. If they build a nuke, tell us to back off and we don't listen... by your logic the ruler of N. Korea would be a great leader if they used that nuke against us, invaded our country and put bush on trial NOT for policing N. Korea, BUT instead put him on trial for thing's that had nothing to do with it.

Son you raise to many issue's to deal with in one answer, ill stick to one.

You question about Lies...

I really don't care for the Lie's, i only care for the Truth's, and the Truth's are what make us right and what make the Islamonazi's wrong.

See what im saying, know what i mean, yes i thought you might.

Ok... so... let me see if I got this right.

Despite the fact that Bush lied, you feel it was justified becuase Saddam ruled his people as he saw fit?

Or is it...

Despite the fact that Bush lied and had no legal standing ground to invade another country, you feel that because Saddam was a bad guy, that we had every right to break international law and invade another country in a pre-emptive strike that nearly the rest of the world said don't do it?

Originally posted by Produkt
Ok... so... let me see if I got this right.

Despite the fact that Bush lied, you feel it was justified becuase Saddam ruled his people as he saw fit?

Or is it...

Despite the fact that Bush lied and had no legal standing ground to invade another country, you feel that because Saddam was a bad guy, that we had every right to break international law and invade another country in a pre-emptive strike that nearly the rest of the world said don't do it?

No son you got it wrong.

What i said was i don't care for lies, just Truth's...

The truth is we are fighting the bulk of the War on Terror on Foreign soil, liberating a country from a evol mass murdering dictator (don't you love how we smoked his evil rapist murdering son? ) and at the same time limiting the amount of Islamonazi's coming to a disco near you (tm) !

Glad we sorted it out, enjoy your freedom, just dont take it forgranted (just yet)

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
No son you got it wrong.

What i said was i don't care for lies, just Truth's...

The truth is we are fighting the bulk of the War on Terror on Foreign soil, liberating a country from a evol mass murdering dictator (don't you love how we smoked his evil rapist murdering son? ) and at the same time limiting the amount of Islamonazi's coming to a disco near you (tm) !

Glad we sorted it out, enjoy your freedom, just dont take it forgranted (just yet)

Well, the truth is. He lied. He admitted to lying. There were no WMD's, which was the first reason for invading the country, not liberating the Iraqi people. And no, I don't like the tactic's used to try and flush out Saddam. The way that was done was just sick. We had no right to go into that country and dictate how it should be run nor to overthrow the government. That's upto it's people not our country. WE ARE NOT WORLD POLICE! We have no right to even act as if we are or assume the role! I'd really like to see another country invade our's and overthrow Bush in the same manner he did in Iraq.

Freedom? What freedom? Oh... the spying on american's? The patriot act? The "Hey let's listen on viop communication's"? You don't have freedom, you have nothing. This country isn't run "for the people" it's run for the rich and elite.

Originally posted by Produkt


Well, the truth is. He lied. He admitted to lying. There were no WMD's, which was the first reason for invading the country, not liberating the Iraqi people. And no, I don't like the tactic's used to try and flush out Saddam. The way that was done was just sick. We had no right to go into that country and dictate how it should be run nor to overthrow the government. That's upto it's people not our country. WE ARE NOT WORLD POLICE! We have no right to even act as if we are or assume the role! I'd really like to see another country invade our's and overthrow Bush in the same manner he did in Iraq.

Could you please provide a link Where G Dubya Bush says that he lied about WMDs?
So Saddam used what, firecrackers of the Kurds?
Is the USA dictating how Iraq should be run ? or did they just have an Election ?

I feel sorry for you and your family and your country that you feel like you should be Invaded and Have the Government overthrown, but an entire life of freedom can have that effect on people . ..... i guess.

Despite the fact that Bush lied

No, major Intel agencies around the world were preaching the same thing, so unless you have some proof of a world wide conspiracy, I suggest you drop the lying case.

and had no legal standing ground to invade another country,

Wrong again, Bush was authorized by the congress to use military force against Iraq. As the Commander-In-Chief the constitution empowers him to conduct the war as he sees fit The US constitution is the supreme law of the land, not the UN charter.

you feel that because Saddam was a bad guy, that we had every right to break international law and invade another country in a pre-emptive strike that nearly the rest of the world said don't do it?

See my point above, International laws should come second behind the US constitution when the US is involved in something.

But of course the above has nothing to do with the topic, so I’ll stay out of this thread unless it goes back on track.

[edit on 1-1-2006 by WestPoint23]

www.scottcsmith.net...

Watch this. A collection of audio clips by our oh so great leader, speaking about these non-existant WMD's as the reason why we invaded Iraq.

And no, US law doesn't come first when dealing with international law's, and no, we were involved with Iraq till Bush decided we were going to become involved with Iraq under the false pretense of non-existant WMD's, that to this very day still have not been found. As for news article's ... there's ton's. www.google.com I'm not going to hand feed you.

dunky.modblog.com...

worded alot better then I could word it... U two ppl to last reply to me should definatley read this.

“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

Then he got Gonzales to back him up on this one, I wonder if Gonzales was the one that told him to say that.

The son of migrant workers raised to a top position from parents that where illegal immigrants came to this country because they wanted a better life for themselves and their children, now their star child has not respect for the constitution of the US either.

No wonder so many people in the US are so mad at the immigrant issue if they are to become men in power to be able to change laws and to apporve the step over on American's constitutional rights to fit their buddies agenda that appointed them.

He also has a lot to do with the patriot act and he helped find loopholes in the Geneva convention so US could use torture in Giztmo.