Stalin's half-man, half-ape super-warriors

Originally posted by Nygdan

He returned to the Soviet Union, only to see experiments in Georgia to use monkey sperm in human volunteers similarly fail

Whoa. Who the heck volunteers for that!

What he was trying was pretty digusting, trying to make half-man slaves. So I can't say I feel bad for him.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Nygdan]


Dude,
you clearly have never gotten hammered at a bar in northern Michigan. I have suspected such experiments involving alcohol, bar girls, and inter-breed mixing in northern Michigan for a long time! Don't get me wrong, we have our lookers up here, but the beer goggles can be DEADLY!
Sandman11

You think they haven't tried doing the same in America? I'm sure they have as those little escaped critters from genetics labs in Puerto Rico show....

Have you never had a "coyote date"? Where like the coyote caught in a trap, you would rather knaw your own arm off than wake her by moving it as you escape? Yes, interspecies experimentation has been going on in backwoods bars for 40 years now at least!

Originally posted by StellarX
Who said anything about transgenics and why does artificial insemination completely rule out chance mutants in your, apparent, expert opinion? I did not claim they could breed an army of like mutants but hell knows what you can manage once you have something that is alive and not sterile......

Ahem, It is my understanding that humans have 23 base pairs in our DNA whereas Apes and Chimps have 24. Therefore making it impossible. Out.

Originally posted by mad scientist
Ahem, It is my understanding that humans have 23 base pairs in our DNA whereas Apes and Chimps have 24. Therefore making it impossible. Out.

Well please check out these links and see if you still feel that you should be using that horrible word.

Animal-Human Hybrids Spark Controversy

"For example, faulty human heart valves are routinely replaced with ones taken from cows and pigs. The surgery—which makes the recipient a human-animal chimera—is widely accepted. And for years scientists have added human genes to bacteria and farm animals."

"What's caused the uproar is the mixing of human stem cells with embryonic animals to create new species"

"Cynthia Cohen is a member of Canada's Stem Cell Oversight Committee, which oversees research protocols to ensure they are in accordance with the new guidelines.

She believes a ban should also be put into place in the U.S.

Creating chimeras, she said, by mixing human and animal gametes (sperms and eggs) or transferring reproductive cells, diminishes human dignity."

U.S. Denies Patent for a Too-Human Hybrid

"A New York scientist's seven-year effort to win a patent on a laboratory-conceived creature that is part human and part animal ended in failure Friday, closing a historic and somewhat ghoulish chapter in American intellectual-property law.

"The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office rejected the claim, saying the hybrid -- designed for use in medical research but not yet created -- would be too closely related to a human to be patentable."

Newman's application, filed in 1997, described a technique for combining human embryo cells with cells from the embryo of a monkey, ape or other animal to create a blend of the two -- what scientists call a chimera. That's the Greek term for the mythological creature that had a lion's head, a goat's body and a serpent's tail."

Human cloning from human cell and cows egg.

"the world's first human clone of an adult has now been made, by an American biotechnology company in Massachusetts, Advanced Cell Technology. They took a cell from Dr Jose Cibelli, a research scientist and combined it with a cows egg from which the genes had already been removed. (News November 1998)

The genes activated and the egg began to divide in the normal way up to the 32 cell stage at which it was destroyed. If the clone had been allowed to continue beyond implantation it would have developed as Dr Cibelli's identical twin. Technically 1% of the human clone genes would have belonged to the cow - the mitochondria genes. Mitochondria are power generators in the cytoplasm of the cell. They grow and divide inside cells and are passed on from one generation to another. They are present in sperm and eggs. Judging by the successful growth of the combined human-cow clone creation it appears that cow mitochondria may well be compatible with human embryonic development."

People Are Human-Bacteria Hybrid.

"Most of the cells in your body are not your own, nor are they even human. They are bacterial. From the invisible strands of fungi waiting to sprout between our toes, to the kilogram of bacterial matter in our guts, we are best viewed as walking "superorganisms," highly complex conglomerations of human cells, bacteria, fungi and viruses.

That's the view of scientists at Imperial College London who published a paper in Nature Biotechnology Oct. 6 describing how these microbes interact with the body. Understanding the workings of the superorganism, they say, is crucial to the development of personalized medicine and health care in the future because individuals can have very different responses to drugs, depending on their microbial fauna.

The scientists concentrated on bacteria. More than 500 different species of bacteria exist in our bodies, making up more than 100 trillion cells. Because our bodies are made of only some several trillion human cells, we are somewhat outnumbered by the aliens. It follows that most of the genes in our bodies are from bacteria, too."

Hybrid Humans?

Analysis of the skeletal remains of a four-year-old child buried some 25,000 years ago in a Portuguese rock-shelter suggests early modern humans and Neandertals may have interbred.

Well just ask if you want some more links.

Stellar

[edit on 27-12-2005 by StellarX]

i read the links and found a referance to a mouse with a human brain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
surely you'ld check if it was aware or sentient or whatever, the moral and religous implications of that one eh, anyway, so it's possible now, just about,but stalin probably couldn't do it, yes?

interesting, to me at least, that he tried, so i wonder if somone else might not be trying now, at the moment, with some sucsess, perhaps north korea or the US, some scary totalitarian state like that.

(ok the US thing is a cheap shot, but hey you guys give kids guns,why not monkeymen.)

and by kids i mean, how can you say that someone is too irresponcible to drink, but they can be sent to war, it's so skewed i don't get it. i'm digressing, i'll stop now.sorry.

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by mad scientist
Ahem, It is my understanding that humans have 23 base pairs in our DNA whereas Apes and Chimps have 24. Therefore making it impossible. Out.

Well please check out these links and see if you still feel that you should be using that horrible word.

Hmm, nothing you posted says that it is possible creating a human/ape hybrid from artificial insemination, something that you think is possible So yes impossible.
None of the links you posted were relevant at all to the pthread - ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION.

Originally posted by mad scientist
Hmm, nothing you posted says that it is possible creating a human/ape hybrid from artificial insemination, something that you think is possible

So yes impossible.
None of the links you posted were relevant at all to the pthread - ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION.

Well if you do not see how those links are relevant i can understand why you do not think this is possible by means of artificial insemination.

"Creating chimeras, she said, by mixing human and animal gametes (sperms and eggs) or transferring reproductive cells, diminishes human dignity."

Did you read the all the articles or just the bits i posted? Can you clarify as to why these links were not relevant when they strongly indicate just how compatible genetic material is? I guess i could go get a link that specfically refutes your claims if your not noticing where this is going.

Stellar

None of your links are relevant because we are talking about artificial insemination - I suggest you look that up to get some understanding of it.
All the links you posted are not artificial insemination. The cells and DNA have already been manipulated. Also the most galring thing in your links of course is no human/animal hybrids have been made.
Also reread the original article, you're getting way off base here.

Originally posted by mad scientist
None of your links are relevant because we are talking about artificial insemination -

Wich one's did'nt you read as there are in fact enough references to genetic compatibility.

I suggest you look that up to get some understanding of it.

So we proceed directly to insult?

All the links you posted are not artificial insemination.

All are not but some are. Did you specfically avoid reading them?

The cells and DNA have already been manipulated.

In some cases they were and in some not.

Also the most galring thing in your links of course is no human/animal hybrids have been made.

There are plenty of anecdotal references just in the recent past to suggest human animal hybrids resulting from artificial insemination. If you go back further in history you can not avoid reading about them as if they were real.

Also reread the original article, you're getting way off base here.

I may be somewhat off base but at least i am not resisting new information the way you are.

"Sterility is attributed to the different number of chromosomes the two species have, for example donkeys have 62 chromosomes, while horses have 64, mules have 63."

I can't say i love Wikipedia as a primary source but in this instance i will selfishly employ it anyways considering the work that went into it.

en.wikipedia.org...

Stellar

[edit on 28-12-2005 by StellarX]

Wouldn't it be humurous reading a newspaper if it happened "Ape Supersoldiers.The Soviet Bigfoot?"

I am just now checking on this ,(busy Holidays) but I saw that this forum is on Artificial Insemination and not Transgenics, well not to be mean or anything but Artificial Insemination is impossible,1 the reproductive organs are extremely differet in size and whatnot 2 DNA base pairs are different. The only to create a Chimera is to do a bunch of crazy, controversial Transgenic experiments. Read Double Helix it's a fiction book based on truth.

Originally posted by Senor_Vicente
I am just now checking on this ,(busy Holidays) but I saw that this forum is on Artificial Insemination and not Transgenics, well not to be mean or anything but Artificial Insemination is impossible,

Well you can be as mean as you like if your sure there is no way on earth that your statements could be wrong or ill-informed. Since you decided to use the word impossible i will have to assume you are sure and a expert in this field.

1 the reproductive organs are extremely differet in size and whatnot 2 DNA base pairs are different.

I provided a link not 2 posts before this where could have seen that this might not in fact make it impossible. Highly unlikely is a term i suggest you use in the future when you consider things to be impossible.

The only to create a Chimera is to do a bunch of crazy, controversial Transgenic experiments. Read Double Helix it's a fiction book based on truth.

A fiction book based on the truth? Wich parts of the truth did it say it was based on? Even non-fiction is frequently called fiction by other people in the same field so using the word impossible is just not wise imo.

Stellar

What a fitting end to his demise, getting sick and dying from standing on a freezing train platform.

I guess there is ironic justice afterall

The article was sickening but the ending was superb.

To accomplish this feat, all one would need is about $1000 worth of lab equipment, and the appropriate specimens. It has been done in the petri dish, using donated human ova, and chimpanzee sperm. There is only 1 chromosome count differance between humans, chimpanzees, and gorillas. They actually have 1 more chromosome than humans, in our evolutionary past, our common ancestors had two chromosomes that fused together forming chromosome #2 in humans, the chimps and gorillas stayed the same in that respect, thus have 1 more than us. You can succesfully crossbreed animals with far greater differances; Tigers and Lions (tygon and ligers), sheep and goats (geeps, shoats), etc. actually sheep and goats have several chromosome differances, although this leads to sterile offspring.
The procedure used to get the sperm and ova together is simply called semen processing (sperm washing). It consists of mixing the collected semen with an equal ammount of sterile, buffered, isotonic saline, glycerine, and egg yold extract (nutrient), dextrose (nutrient) at about PH 7.1 with the semen, and gently shakeing the mix for a short period. Then the mix is run through a centrifuge, and the sperm settle to the bottom as a small pellete. This is draw off with a pipette, and then either examined for quality control, or mixed with the ova in a petri dish. Alternativly one could also perform an I.U.I procedure with the processed pellete (interuterine insemination).
The sperm washing is done to remove white blood cells, and anti-bodies that could stimulate an immune system response in the egg, or the hosts body. The one time it has been done in a petri dish, the two scientists decided to destroy the dividing cells after 8 or 12 divisions due to ethical concerns. Supposedly a member of PETA had infiltrated a private lab in central mexico where a hybrid child was born from a invitro procedure done with chimpanzee semen, it is claimed that it has to be given mood stabiizers and other anti psychotics, and is continuously depressed due to malformations of the brain (this may all be untrue).

EQUIPMENT NEEDED:
Centrifuge (try chinese made lab equipment) $270 or so for a nice model
Pipettes (1ml, 2ml, 10ml) $2.00 a piece new and used
Pipette pumps/fillers $15.00-$40.00 brand new (look around)
microscope w/mech. stage 1500X mag. $300 (again chinese equipment)
petri dishes $7.00 glass, $2.00 plastic ea (lab supplie everywhere)
testtubes $.25-$2.00 ea (anywhere just about)
syringes (for reimplantation) .50-$2.00 ea
1mm I.D. polyethylene tubing $15.00 10' roll

prob. missed a few things on that list, get creative!

Originally posted by Nakash
Human DNA is NOT 99.99% accurate with Chimp DNA. That's a misconception due to an innacurate method of splicing genes and putting the Nucleotides back together. According to this method, the simplest prokaryote has 99% similar DNA to humans. The single biggest problem with the method is that it doesn't distinguish between our useless 90-98% DNA introns obtained via Viral infections and then transmitted throughout generations, and the "true" DNA used for translation and transcription.

[edit on 21-12-2005 by Nakash]

Im pretty sure they were talking about what you refer to as "true" DNA, or exons but I cant be sure since I havent read the actual report or done my own testing. In fact, Im not even sure who came up with those numbers.

However one thing we do know is that it's fairly easy to mix DNA from different sources, even plants and animals, and after a bit of trial and error, have a successful product. We even know unusual chromosome counts can be supported successfully to create completely new classes of creatures. Mixing ape and human DNA is relatively easy once you've mapped the genes and allocated attributes. Fortunately, Stalin's people had no clue about DNA. Unfortunately the world is full of well funded labs in the darkest (no pun intended) corners of the world where laws aren't quite as strict as they are here in the US. In fact in many countries there are no laws whatsoever that address these issues and where they are a part of an internation agreement there is no active investigation and enforcement.

Now that working with DNA is fairly standard and affordable technology (I can put together a decent lab for

Originally posted by lordmagnus

EQUIPMENT NEEDED:
Centrifuge (try chinese made lab equipment) $270 or so for a nice model
Pipettes (1ml, 2ml, 10ml) $2.00 a piece new and used
Pipette pumps/fillers $15.00-$40.00 brand new (look around)
microscope w/mech. stage 1500X mag. $300 (again chinese equipment)
petri dishes $7.00 glass, $2.00 plastic ea (lab supplie everywhere)
testtubes $.25-$2.00 ea (anywhere just about)
syringes (for reimplantation) .50-$2.00 ea
1mm I.D. polyethylene tubing $15.00 10' roll

prob. missed a few things on that list, get creative!

Thank goodness for the chinese and their high-quality but low-cost products.

If we have a full data-set and have devised a procedure, we would also need a secure environment with HVAC for multiple rooms including an infirmary, a refrigerator, a freezer, a microwave, incubators, staff (including medically trained with medical equipment). We may need some clearning supplies and equipment as well. In a "3rd world" country, this can all be done relatively cheaply, not that I would advocate such a thing, so I would be surprised if more bizarreness doesnt reveal itself more often in the future.

ps. I forgot to add a coffee-maker, half-and-half, non-dairy creamer, sugar and tea-bags. Anything else is up to the staff to bring in themselves. Its probably a good idea for the staff to have a seperate refrigerator.

[edit on 2-2-2006 by orca71]

Oh yeah, I forgot the coffee. What good is a coffee-maker without coffee?

[edit on 2-2-2006 by orca71]

Oh my. Didnt you also forget to mention the recently uncovered super-top-secret document stating that Stalin ate a newborn baby every day of his evil life? I dont want to say that you people who believe anything need help... but i cant really think of a way to finish that sentence



[edit on 21-3-2007 by gone_wrong]