Ok, and (Rant: Enabled), that's better ...
Now, let's see. If we (the collective ATS community) are to be viewed by outsiders and even to ourselves as a great divination stick that should be
finding the belief-enhancing water from the hoaxes-make-us-more-cynical dirt, then I can honestly say we've been failing ourselves.
Originally posted by Majic
Hence the tedious but essential process of identifying and validating the sources of all information available in UFO and extraterrestrial
And indeed, as I've been preaching with much cyber gesticulation - THIS IS THE REQUIREMENT! We have been self-tasked and internally-appointed as
each and every being accountable for the other. In effect, we've voted ourselves into being the judge, jury and forensic evidence technicians of a
Originally posted by Majic
The alternative, which seems to be the curse that has become emblematic of the "UFO community", is an endless and torturous cycle of hoaxes, cons,
fraud, debunking, rumors, myths, infighting and tail-chasing.
As much as I hate to say it, it's our own (collective) fault. If we see the history of these failings of a process, then why are we not empowered
and in fact emboldened to make this process better -- to refine the process? We are.
Originally posted by Majic
If that's what membership in such a community requires, I have no desire to be a part of it.
That would suck, because I think you're blowing more hot air (respectfully) and being a frustrated individual rather than saying you're giving up --
which I wouldn't believe from what I've observed, is in your character.
That being said, I'm in the same position as you.
Originally posted by MajicBut I know there's a better way, and well, here we are.
Why yes, yes there is!
Just as the Hannibal's concept of an Eye-For-An-Eye swept across modern man's character and began to establish a need for the rule of law and the
enforcement of order if we were to all get along somehow and avoid utter chaos, we realized that man's ability to do great good was equal to his
ability to work great horror, we needed a method of refining our ability and procedure to deal with this as a civilized society.
I'm not much of a PolySci/Civics person, but I imagine the roots of our modern legal system evolved because of our frustration with the limited
ability of the predecessor of it to deal with more and more complex situations. Thus, I think this forms an excellent basis to what I am now seeing
as absolutely necessary.
Often, I ask myself "What is it that I *do not* know, so I may describe that in order to know what it is I *wish* to know." Convoluted, but works
often better than other attempts to figure things out. In this case, I can say that I *do not* know of the following:
-> If other legitimate (definition but for illustrative purposes only) UFO/ET/Paranormal societies (again, loose definition) subscribe, use or
proclaim allegiance to a system of investigation, research and determination? This is akin to the legal system definition I mentioned above?
In the case of our modern society and it's legal system (In the US, specifically), I'd like to mention the assumption that not every case is
researched in deep detail until such time an actual basis of allegation can be established on a 'preponderance of the evidence', meaning that the
facts, details and evidence show an overwhelming capability to prove something to one extent or the other. This is key to having cases dismissed or
having cases move forward with indictments and the like. Am I on track here? I mean, can any legal types/Barristers/Lawyers/Petitioners come and
What I propose is that we either rapidly adopt a framework of discovery, evidentiary collection and vetting procedures that can allow us to define the
legitimacy of the 'collection' of evidence, and not a single piece of it, or we create our own.
Too many instances (Titor as being prime, but I have to get more familiar with that) come about where we follow blindly, researching each tidbit here
and there, and defining the process as we go, stumble and all. Instead, wouldn't a structured approach, framework and refined procedures provide an
environment where we could, as the collective investigative community, make more and RAPID decisions about whether something was worthy of our
attention or not?
Think of it as SETI-AT-HOME translated to our work in these forums. They undoubtedly have a strict set of guidelines which enable them to quickly
measure signals against parameters, and cross-reference that data to ensure only candidate signals are even considering for refined study and
re-investigation. Why can we not adopt a similar approach to our (seemingly) endless amount of effort?
Imagine Serpo being 3 pages? Imagine the endless rhetorical and blatantly irrelevant questions being filtered, and a procedural approach forming
around the discovery, detailed investigation and finally decision-making ability of our group? It's almost dream-quailty, no?
Yet, I think it's not too far fetched. Everyone on Serpo of late seems to naturally be going for the 'Hey, this information matches this
information' approach, because the iterative process of evaluation and rescreening the detailed information becomes too much of a boredom, and even
conflicting discussions emerge about the validity of the 'expert testimony' on gravity, science or logical thinking which is in question at a given
point. All of these --granted-- are valid for a case to be decided upon in the end, but if the bigger picture is unknown, how can we forcibly detain
someone unless we've obtained enough evidence to one degree or the other?
In essence, I'm saying that these forums are akin to the mob-mentality that we see in many societies globally where the rule of law and the
enforcement of order are absent or neglected to a serious degree. The mob can, will and does enforce their brutal justice, without a serious
investigation of the facts. I'd hate to see Bill be found guilty of a hoax in the 3rd degree without an agreed-upon approach to finding the facts
and determining the whole picture.
I'm just thinking this is more and more making sense. Is anyone else getting my drift here?