POLITICS: House to Vote on Troop Pullout

its a shame the republicans wont take this war seriously. diebold is the only thing that can save the gop in 06, 08

Originally posted by Seekerof
A cheap political ploy is a political ploy, no matter the color, flavor, or party affiliation.

Except when you spend 40 million dollars investigating a semen stain.

Then it's called bringing moral accountability to the white house.

Its is called a game of calling political bluff.
You know: put up or shut up.
You ever played poker?

No, it's tryng to redefine the issue in an oversimplified black and white perspective. The Iraq war is a complex issue but Republicans are trying to say "You're either with us or against us." It's the same as saying that if you don't support the Patriot act you support terrorists, or if you don't support anti-torture legislation you support terrorists.

In politics nothing is black and white, if it was then it wouldn't be up for discussion. This bill reflects the Republican need to look at the world in terms of black and white, right and wrong, good guys and bad guys. And to them we (America) will always be the good guys regardless of our actions.

Remember, only the Sith think in absolutes...

How exactly is this "put up or shut up"? (I'm not just referring to seekerof's post, a lot of people have been using this phrase.)

Murtha and the Democrats wanted a considered timetable for withdrawal.

What the GOP offered them was something different and, by their own admission, ridiculous: an immediate withdrawal.

I don't think they're worried about what their voters think, because their voters think that a timetable and a considered withdrawal are better than "cut and run," which only the Republicans are proposing with this bill. It's just a concept the GOP are using to characterize the Democrat position.

All this is is a waste of time in an attempt by the GOP to delay discussion of what must and will eventually come, a change of strategy in Iraq.

[edit on 18-11-2005 by koji_K]

ShakyaHeir:

Then it's called bringing moral accountability to the white house.

The Democrats have had how long to have a closed door seesion to bring moral accountability to the White House?
Nice try, but the timing of this Democrat move for a closed door session speaks volumes in relation to your mention of:

This bill reflects the Republican need to look at the world in terms of black and white, right and wrong, good guys and bad guys.

Yeah.....about as much as the Democrats just getting around to bringing that so-called moral accountability to the White House by way of a closed door session. Nothing but a Democrat move to look at the war in Iraq "in terms of black and white, right or wrong, good guys or bad guys."

Btw, the resolution to debate this immediate pullout passed, which they are now currently debating, then going to vote on. Everyone will be officially on record. Positions will be defined, known and remembered.





seekerof

[edit on 18-11-2005 by Seekerof]

210 yea to 202 nay

and the debate goes on!

Every one of the flippin jack-donkey politicians in office need to be removed from their offices and given a good whipping with a rifle sling (clips still on it) and sent over to IRAQ armed only with the huge piles of caca they push day to day while all our troops are pulled completely out. Let the insurgents have'em- every single one of 'em. Call it a sacrifice of the very much UN-righteous.



I happen to be one of those troops shortly on my way over - I'll lend them my rifle sling for the beatings as well. These "leaders" are a disgrace. The military is horribly UNDERPAID for what they are asked of them while these pompous morons are highly overpaid to play games, make power grabs, and further line THEIR pockets!!!! They are not helping our country move forward, rather they are dragging it down into a cesspool while they look out only for their own interests and happen to be the VERY REASON the terrorists hate us.



-I must say this is in my very humble opinion and not a statement from my position- or office I hold.

Yea what the heck. Pull em out, back down and suck the anti- Americans' snorkels! Go Democrats! Pull them out, tax, and spend a trillion or so to rebuild Iraq so the terrorist can blow it up again!

OR,

Pull out and let Iraq handle up on their own problems and vote 3rd party!

Or,

Kill em all and go with the GOP!

Umm!

I really dont think there is going to be an answer to this anytime soon.

What a mess.

Originally posted by ShakyaHeir
I think it's who supports the war vs. who doesn't support the war.

Which side supports the troops is debateable, and "cut-n-run" is republican spin for "withdrawal".

Bingo!
We can support our troops here at home!
Supporting a war that we had no business starting is just wrong.

The results:

3 yeas (all Democrats)
403 nays


Back to regularly scheduled programming now...

403 votes to leave our troops over in that mess? Wow. I honestly have my doubts as to whether they will be home before 2010.

i just watch something that i feel, was horrendous. a total waste of time on something that was pretty much obvious.
OF COURSE YOU CANT TAKE THE TROOPS OUT IMMEDIATELY.

THAT would take a plan, we didnt have a plan going in, why have one going out?

anyway the goal was to make a sure deadline to get out, it didnt have to be immediate, but of course republicans made it seem that way.
its either immediate deadline or none at all. ah democracy at its finest

Originally posted by mrjones
Bingo!
We can support our troops here at home!
Supporting a war that we had no business starting is just wrong.

And double BINGO!
Same mentality that happened during the Vietnam War, resulting in US troops being immediately withdrawn and the immediate fall of the South Vietnamese government and tens of thousands of deaths by the hands of the succeeding North Vietnamese Communist government.
The New Vietnam






seekerof

In a move that caught the White House by surprise, South Korea has announced plans to pull one-third of its troops out of Iraq.

South Korea's Defence Minister Yoon Kwang-ung delivered the plan to the ruling Uri Party on Friday, said the ministry.

As many as 3,200 South Korean troops are currently in Iraq, the third-largest contingent behind the United States and Britain.
CBC

First it was Poland, now South Korea. Somebody has got to have an exit strategy to get us out of there. We just don't have the manpower to do whatever we are supposed to be doing over threre.

Hey launchpad - take care and be careful when you go over there. You can hang onto your rifle sling. I prefer to use a bullwhip on those worthless suckers - I love the !crack! the whip makes as it licks their skin!

Originally posted by Indy
403 votes to leave our troops over in that mess? Wow. I honestly have my doubts as to whether they will be home before 2010.

The numbers in the vote are only important if you know the meaning behind them. If you watched the debate Jack Murtha himself called the resolution "a cheap political ploy" and urged Democrats and Republicans alike to vote against it. Democrats voted it down because it does not represent Jack Murtha's original proposal, nor does it represent their sentiments. Murtha himself said that the only feasible solutions to the war are either for us to double the amount of troops on the ground in Iraq calling for a draft, or to withdraw them and let the Iraqi security forces take over. Also in his speech he brought up the fact that this is the only prolonged war in which we have lowered taxes three years in a row while at the same time not instated a draft. And that the burden of the Iraqi conflict is not being shared equally among Americans.

They still want to end the Iraq war and redeploy our troops. It's just that this resolution is not really for ending the war, but rather it's a political maneuver attempting to make Democrats look bad.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Same mentality that happened during the Vietnam War, resulting in US troops being immediately withdrawn and the immediate fall of the South Vietnamese government and tens of thousands of deaths by the hands of the succeeding North Vietnamese Communist government.

I would like to point out that the last US combat troops were withdrawn from Vietnam in April of 1973 and that the fall of Saigon occurred in April of 1975. Of course, the handwriting was on the wall from the moment the last troop was aboard his transport.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Republicans played that 10 year old child game of... Oh yeah well lets see you do it, go on I dare ya.
did not even try to have a mature discussion on solving anything.

Thanks Grady for that.
I got a little carried away on the use of "immediate".
Sorry.




seekerof

You know the wording of the resolution was a play on the Al-Jazira headline spin of immediate troop withdrawal, but it should have been worded differently. It should have been "It is not the sense of the house that US forces in Iraq should be withdrawn immediately". That way they would have voted unanimously “Aye” to send a message. But the Republican’s brought up a resolution that they knew would fail. This doesn’t make sense, and tells me that it is all a political stunt and not sending a message except for one across the isle. It did send a message to the World though, but the message is that our House is in disarray.

Well as you can see guys overt the weekend, that it was just another Play on words, and a sham conducted by the puppet masters of Washington, to those who really want the troops to rally on, I want them to stand up and be counted to go join the fight in Iraq, other than that they should be silent, for they do not know what's really going on in that desret land.

Bless