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POLITICS: House to Vote on Troop Pullout

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posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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Interesting:




For those reasons, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi sent word to rank-and-file Democrats to vote — with the Republicans — against immediate withdrawal of American troops.
Pilosi[/u rl]


[edit on 11/18/05 by FredT]




posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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Double post

[edit on 11/18/05 by FredT]



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
who supports a thought out strategy for a timely withdrawal or downsizing.


Seekerof, where is this "thought out strategy for a timely withdrawal or downsizing"???

Please, I'd really like to see it, if you have some "inside info" share with us.

If it is real, and doable I am all for it.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi sent word to rank-and-file Democrats to vote — with the Republicans — against immediate withdrawal of American troops.


Right, they don't have a choice. They can yell that this is a political ploy. They can stomp their feet and make great statements to explain the reason for their votes. They do have good reason to vote no. The end result is the same. Focus has just been shifted from the Republican side to the Democrats. The Democrats have just become the issue, and it will take them the rest of the year to live this one down and get the focus back onto the Bush administration.

Thanksgiving is coming up, then Christmas. The rest of the year is shot for their cause now. Genius move on the Republicans part. I have to say I didn't know they had it in them.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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People, the bills are not the same. Democrats don't have to worry about looking weak in front of their voter base because the new bill is unacceptable and illogical, and the voters know this. Who in congress would vote for a bill that basically says, lets drop everything and pull out? That's not what the Murtha bill would have said. What's been lost here is an opportunity to honestly sound out who in congress would like to see an organized timeline for an effective withdrawl and who feels that that timeline is not necessary.

Like it or not, thanks to the GOP's current unwillingness to consider (and I mean only consider- no more or less) changing strategy in Iraq, the vote will be for a nonsense bill that was the product of political obstruction, instead of Murtha's considered and heartfelt bill that the country deserved a vote on.

I think it's sad that people here are defending a political ploy at the expense of honest debate and the democratic process. This has no place where the stakes are as high as they are regarding Iraq, regardless of which side of the aisle it comes from.

Do you understand that because of what happened, congress will now be wasting it's time debating a piece of deliberately unworkable legislation, when it could be considering, oh, say, the situation in Iraq?

This isn't some piece of pork-barrell legislation where each side can clap hands when they get a nice bridge or military base in their district as a result of political games, and yet it's been treated as such and, apparently, recieved as such.

[edit on 18-11-2005 by koji_K]



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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Just caught wind of this so I may not have all the info, but if the bill that is proposed is never going to pass anyway, and it would be politically damaging to vote either way, why not abstain from voting. The Dem's could boycott the issue couldn't they?

I don't agree with the "cut and run" withdrawal, but I am glad someone is at least bringing up the subject. It is hopefully the first step toward a reasonable withdrawal.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by FredT
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi sent word to rank-and-file Democrats to vote — with the Republicans — against immediate withdrawal of American troops.


Right, they don't have a choice. They can yell that this is a political ploy. They can stomp their feet and make great statements to explain the reason for their votes. They do have good reason to vote no. The end result is the same. Focus has just been shifted from the Republican side to the Democrats. The Democrats have just become the issue, and it will take them the rest of the year to live this one down and get the focus back onto the Bush administration.

Thanksgiving is coming up, then Christmas. The rest of the year is shot for their cause now. Genius move on the Republicans part. I have to say I didn't know they had it in them.


I don't think you understand the situation.

The Democrats want a straight vote on the Murtha resolution.

They're rejecting this REPUBLICAN resolution because it is an absolute. It is an unworkable game of chicken.

The timing of it is bad on the Republican part. They missed saturation coverage for the evening news broadcasts, nobody reads the saturday papers. It's not the top story on CNN.com, It's not the top story on Fox. Even the bloggers are barely taking notice.

A Republican floating a bill for the US to come out of Iraq is just more fodder for moveon.org ads.

Yeah, the Democrats will never live this one down. All seven people watching on C-Span are thrilled.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:06 PM
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as posted by Nerdling
All seven people watching on C-Span are thrilled.

Come now, Nerdling, I thought all good Democrats and antiwar proponents watched CNN or C-Span, etc?
Is that not along the same line of reasoning that some here think that all Republicans and Neocons watch FAUXNews?








seekerof

[edit on 18-11-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:06 PM
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Here we go, once again, the politicians are using the men and women of our Armed Forces to play their little political games on Capitol Hill.

This is why our government disgusts me any more. Here we have troops fighting and dying in Iraq, and BOTH Democrats and Republicans are playing with their lives like it's all part of game.

The sad part is, to politicians, it is.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:24 PM
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THIS was a total disgustings work of politics as a way to score political points and call Democrats cowards. Not to metion a Marine vetran of the korean war, and who volunteered for the Vietnam war.

I don't think anyone would ever say they don't support the troops, but they either deserve the proper support to end the iraqi insurancy by more then doubling the number of troops in Iraq as both COlin Powell and General Chenzeki (?sp?) suggested. Or at least leave and let the Iraqis step up and solve thier problems.

If anything, the troops are not getting ENOUGH support from the people who sent them there int he first place for false pretenses



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
The timing of it is bad on the Republican part. They missed saturation coverage for the evening news broadcasts, nobody reads the saturday papers. It's not the top story on CNN.com, It's not the top story on Fox. Even the bloggers are barely taking notice.


Of course it's not the top news on CNN. It doesn't slam President Bush or the Republicans.

You can have the bloggers. Talk radio is all over this story(The way I heard about it). I don't know if you realize it, but talk radio reaches far more people than FAUX news, which I rarely watch. I still think it's a bold daring move that will work out well for the Republicans. It's not a slam-dunk, but it draw the attention away from President Bush and puts the spotlight on the Democrats. Trust me, in American politics you want to define the issues, and not be the issue itself.

I watch CSPAN sometimes



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:36 PM
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Somebody thought it was a good idea, and I'm not sure who. If they had just let the Murtha criticism go, it would have been dead by Monday. Instead, by doing this, on a Friday no less - in which it becomes the weekend's only story - Duncan Hunter and the House Republicans elevate Rep. Murtha to the national stage. Both bolstering the anti-war crowd, and allowing the moderate Republicans and conservative Democrats a sympathetic figurehead to align themselves with.

Not to mention the late afternoon anouncement of the Representative from South Caronlina's intention to bring an retaliatory ethics investigation against Murtha, and this entire thing just blew up in the Republican leadership's face. They just made Murtha a national figure.

Basically, how it breaks down is this. The Majority Middle of the United States has really negative feelings about the war, but they know that there's really nothing that can be done. Murtha devises a plan that both solves the problem, and gets the troops the hell out of Iraq.

He perfectly encapsulates the feelings of the Middle, and then he's immediatly hammered, slandered, and nailed by the GOP leadership. I would venture a guess that, instead if raising internal polling numbers, it will drive down the numbers even further.

Because, the question becomes "If they can do this to Murtha, then why can't they do this to me too?"



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by brimstone735
They just made Murtha a national figure.


Yeah, the way the Democrats made Tom Delay and Scooter Libby a national figure. Like I said you want to define the issues, and not be the issue.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat
THIS was a total disgustings work of politics as a way to score political points and call Democrats cowards.


Oh, you mean along the lines of this [linked below] "total disgusting work of politics" to "score political points" and call Bush a liar, etc?
Dems Force Senate into Secret Session

Seems to me that whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.
You were saying?



seekerof



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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this resolution reminds me of trading in the game monopoly

here we have a democrat making a resolution idea, the rebulicans look at it and totally rearrange the 'trade' to a disgraceful excuse for an offer. so they can A choose the offer and get screwed on it because its a very bad idea or B decline it and changed absolutely nothing, moving on the same path simply wasting time ever making the trade in the first place.

truely disgusting.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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I think that no one here can question the fact that the Democrats have been beating the "Pull out of Iraq" Drum for some time. They knew their ideas were not workable. Up until this point they have been able to say that the Republicans were warmongers, but now, now the Democrats position has been shown to be completely unrealistic. Which by the way is one of the main ideas of this "stunt".

For those of you who feel disgusted, its the same thing the Democrats have been pulling for some time. Now that the Republicans are doing it, it just doesn't feel so good. You have to admit it. The Democrats position on pulling out of the war is not a position anyone can support. The Democrats see this as Vietnam II. Well it's not.

Politics as usual everyone. In case you forgot, both sides can be pretty mean.

[edit on 18-11-2005 by dbates]



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Hey, don't bash C-Span.. I'm watching it still (it's now 8:50 EST) and it's the most exciting stuff on! Honestly people, if you want to see what's been going on in America in a nutshell these past few years, watch these two debates, in their entirety.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by dbates
Yeah, the way the Democrats made Tom Delay and Scooter Libby a national figure. Like I said you want to define the issues, and not be the issue.


The problem comes from his associations. Even though he was a democrat, he was essentially one of your guys. His positives were up on both sides of the aisle, because he wasn't a partisan. Stop and think about this, by a nearly 2 to 1 ratio, Americans are turning against the war. It was formerly 50/50, slightly leaning towards the administraton.

Well, the bottom dropped out. And then you lost a majority of indepedents. People who previously supported the war, and then changed their minds

Like Murtha.

The GOP controls all relative branches of the government right now, so they can't walk around picking fights, like they did today - especially when their negatives are so high.

If this were Durbin and Schumer, it would be a victory for the GOP. But, you just attacked the guy who suddenly represents moderates and independents - the same people you need to get back on your side.

In the end, we'll know who's right and who's wrong by next week, when the polls come back. If The GOP regains the ground that thee lost in the last several weeks, then it was a smart move. If the GOP's numbers go down further, then it was a disaster.

Me? I'm putting my money on disaster.


EDIT: To add that they're going to replay the Jean Schmidt attack on Murtha over and over again. That's what the story will be in a week, and that's what people will remember. That's called a fumble.

[edit on 18-11-2005 by brimstone735]



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Oh, you mean along the lines of this [linked below] "total disgusting work of politics" to "score political points" and call Bush a liar, etc?
Dems Force Senate into Secret Session

Seems to me that whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.
You were saying?


I don't see how calling for a secret hearing of congress is "total disgusting work of politics to score political points". The fact of the matter is that you or I don't know what they talked about in that secret hearing, and in all likelyhood if it was important enough to invoke rule 21, it was not a political ploy.

The REPUBLICAN bill to immediately withdraw troops on the other hand, undeniably is a very cheap political ploy.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by ShakyaHeir
I don't see how calling for a secret hearing of congress is "total disgusting work of politics to score political points". The fact of the matter is that you or I don't know what they talked about in that secret hearing, and in all likelyhood if it was important enough to invoke rule 21, it was not a political ploy.

That is your interpretation, along with others that may agree with it.
At any rate, it has been media reported what was discussed behind those alleged closed doors. Most of which was taken from Democrats describing such. A cheap political ploy is a political ploy, no matter the color, flavor, or party affiliation.




The REPUBLICAN bill to immediately withdraw troops on the other hand, undeniably is a very cheap political ploy.

It is called a game of calling political bluff.
You know: put up or shut up.
You ever played poker?





seekerof

[edit on 18-11-2005 by Seekerof]




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