Al-Zarqawi the Superterrorist - Who Can Prove He Really Exists?

Originally posted by thematrix
Again, Seekerof, noone said he never existed.

In looking over the entirety of this topic thread, I am counting 7 who have asserted that Zarqawi does not exist, including the member who started this topic thread, thematrix.

Come again?




seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
...who have asserted that Zarqawi does not exist, including the member who started this topic thread, thematrix.

Come again?

Where did I "assert" that he does not exist? I asked for proof of his existence, but nowhere did I state that he does not. In fact, I'm pretty sure I stated several times that proving that something or someone does not exist is impossible. Indeed the one-time existence of a man by that name has been shown. However, the ultimate point of this thread, which you are well aware of, dear Seekerof, is to prove that this man is in fact the mastermind behind all of these attacks, as is posited by the powers that be. If you want to give up at simply proving that an Arabic man by that name existed at some point in time and possibly may have even died years ago, then so be it, your surrender is accepted, and your commendation letter from the French military should be arriving within the week.

[edit on 2005-11-21 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
He is credited with masterminding everything from the Iraqi insurgency to the Nick Berg beheading. Some say he even held the blade himself. ...

But who among us can prove that Abu Musab al Zarqawi, Islamic Super-Being, really exists...?

He hasn't been credited with super human abilities at all; there is nothing abnormal about this guy. This particular topic has been dragged around plenty by Sister Syrian; it was made clear that he existed before the Iraq thing by the presentation of articles written about him before hand.

Bush is credited with being extremely stupid, yet so brilliant he's taking over the world. He's to blame for everything from Bird Flu to Katrina and every other storm we had this year. He's trying to destroy the ANWR, but, at the same time, has caused a fuel shortage.

Prove he exists. Nobody can do all the amzing stuff he is credited with!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
He hasn't been credited with super human abilities at all; there is nothing abnormal about this guy.

I'd say regrowing limbs (regeneration), being in more than one place at once (teleportation), returning from the dead (reincarnation), maintaining a global terrorist network (mass hypnosis), being able to evade the security agencies of and travel freely through all nations (super-spy abilities), masterminding almost every single terrorist plot and attack since 2001 and being a WMD biochemist despite not having graduated from high school (supra-genius), pretty much puts him up there with the greatest superheroes/supervillains of all time. If he and Magnito ever get together, we are completely doomed.

DR. ZARQAWI

...it was made clear that he existed before the Iraq thing by the presentation of articles written about him before hand.

The presentation of articles doesn't prove anything beyond the fact that this name and this man existed at some point in time. The point is not whether or not the man existed, the point is whether or not the man is still existent, and whether or not he is masterminding all of these attacks with which he is so credited.

I could pick any name out of the Afghan Mujahadeen, or some Jordanian guy that died in prison, and start posting things in his name on Islamic websites - which trace back to Western ISP's and mysteriously disappear anyway - and claim that this 'identity' is behind every bombing and every attack that occurs. If I claimed that Muhammed Atta was still alive and masterminded the London bombings, wouldn't you ask me for evidence? And if I then showed you his passport, his family members, a posting on a webforum using his name claiming responsibility, and sent you an mp3 of some guy saying he is Atta and claiming responsibility...would you be satisfied? Because that's basically what we have here, and I could set that all up within an hour or so. Heck, I could convince people that Elvis masterminded 9-11 under those criteria.

Bush is credited with being extremely stupid, yet so brilliant he's taking over the world. He's to blame for everything from Bird Flu to Katrina and every other storm we had this year. He's trying to destroy the ANWR, but, at the same time, has caused a fuel shortage.

So is it unreasonable for people to ask for proof that Bush is indeed the evil genius mastermind behind all of these disasters, or should we just accept it as fact because it's on the Internet?

When accusations are made against governments and organizations that have a proven record of being deceptive and underhanded, everyone yells, "Where's the proof?!", and rightly so...but when those same governments and organizations state anything, even in an area where there are so many smoking guns of their deception (i.e. 9-11 and the WoT), everyone takes their word as gospel without a second thought, even when their evidence amounts to basically zero.



[edit on 2005-11-21 by wecomeinpeace]

What is the difference between a terroist and a superterrorist? Do they have to kill many people or set off a certain number of bombs? I'ts like the difference between a model vs. a supermodel. What does one have to do in order to get the prefix of super?

Originally posted by FLYIN HIGH
What is the difference between a terroist and a superterrorist?

Ordinary terrorists need bombs to kill people. Superterrorists can kill an infidel from 200 yards away with psychokinetic mind bullets.




[edit on 2005-11-21 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

The presentation of articles doesn't prove anything beyond the fact that this name and this man existed at some point in time.

Oy gevalt

76 members of the Khalayleh family of the prominent Bani Hassan clan - one of the largest Jordanian tribes , from which Zarqawi hails, including Zarqawi's brother, Sayel Fadeel Nazzal Khalayleh, and his cousins who signed that large advertised statement are no proof?

@ wecomeinpeace - what would be a proof?

Would you believe any reports, any court, any DNA tests?

YOU would not know him, in case he would open a new Starbucks Coffee store next to your door (his brother would)....

- so WHAT would be a proof you'd believe?

[edit on 21-11-2005 by Riwka]

I'd say none of your assertions have been claimed, except maybe in Islamic circles where they are looking for some kind of super hero.
False news reports maketh not a super hero or super villain.

George Walker Bush, is he real or not?

You decide.

Originally posted by Riwka
Oy gevalt

76 members of the Khalayleh family of the prominent Bani Hassan clan - one of the largest Jordanian tribes , from which Zarqawi hails, including Zarqawi's brother, Sayel Fadeel Nazzal Khalayleh, and his cousins who signed that large advertised statement are no proof?

I think you're completely missing the point here. If you read through the thread since you last appeared in it, we have moved on from proving that the man existed. Should I go back and change the title of the thread so we can move on? Or should I start a whole new one entitled, "Al-Zarqawi the Superterrorist - Episode II, Who Can Prove He Is Still Alive and Really Masterminds Global Terror Everywhere?

@ wecomeinpeace - what would be a proof?

@Riwka.org - How about capturing him? How hard can it be with all this "evidence" of his involvement in everything from the London bombings to the Kennedy assassination? Didn't his sister-in-law just get captured? Isn't he posting on the Internet all the time? Doesn't he flit from nation to nation? Isn't he connected to this vast network with all these resources?

How about a video of him claiming responsibility for something? I've honestly never seen any of those that are claimed, so where are the links presented for scrutiny? I seriously want to see them so we can move the debate onward.

How about reports regarding him being consistent?

How about different pictures of him actually matching each other?

How about they post these Islamic websites for scrutiny?

How about the tales presented about him not turning out to be completely bogus after the fact, even when it's tales told to the United Nations Security Council?

How about the tales of his adventures not being so ridiculous as to make him completely comical, in both senses of the word?

I'm not emotionally addicted to him not being the man behind all they say he is, and I'm not emotionally addicted to this tongue-in-cheek thread, and if someone can show anything substantial, I will stand up and say, "Hey, you guys and gals were right. I put up a challenge and you met it. Here's a WATS for you." But you keep going on about how much proof there is, and all you ever show is the news reports of intelligence sources citing intelligence sources saying "he dunnit", and repeating that his neighbors say he's a bad man. That's why this thread is already into it's sixth page. If you think that I'm being unreasonable, then why come back to give me the thumbs down? Why not just ignore me? Sheesh...

so WHAT would be a proof you'd believe?

So WHAT would be a "proof" you wouldn't believe? Elvis was behind the London bombings. Want me to prove it? Just give me the signal and I'll do it. Something tells me The King is about to make a podcast on a well-known conspiracy website claiming responsibility for the London Bombings. Authorities will probably be able to confirm it's him because they will hear him munching on a jelly donut while speaking in a Tennessee drawl.

How much does it take and how many times do you need to be lied to before you start asking some serious questions and not taking everything at face value?

[edit on 2005-11-21 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

I think you're completely missing the point here.

Do I?

The statement, which included the signature of Zarqawi's brother, Sayel Fadeel Nazzal Khalayleh, and his cousins, pledged allegiance to the Jordanian monarch and denounced "all terrorist acts claimed by Ahmad Fadeel Khalayleh," Zarqawi's real name.

Do you think his family would recognice his voice?



[edit on 21-11-2005 by Riwka]

Originally posted by Riwka
The statement, which included the signature of Zarqawi's brother, Sayel Fadeel Nazzal Khalayleh, and his cousins, pledged allegiance to the Jordanian monarch and denounced "all terrorist acts claimed by Ahmad Fadeel Khalayleh," Zarqawi's real name.

Do you think his family would recognice his voice?

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. I haven't seen the news item you are referring to. Has his brother listened to the tape personally? When was the last time his brother had any contact with him? What about his parents, have they listened to it? Do you have a link, please?

If his involvement in the Jordanian bombings is proven, this is a good thing. Hopefully he can then be captured, although my crystal ball tells me he will continue to elude capture as long as his usefulness continues, and then he will simply become another Osama Been Forgotten. However it still does not erase the fact that it is virtually impossible that he could be responsible for all that he is credited with, and TPTB have been caught with their pants down regarding him on innumerable occasions.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Do you have a link, please?

hmmm..

In that case you should google around in those arabic newspapers, which cover the stories around this statement, published by local Jordanian newspapers.

But would you believe a story that Zarqawi called his family etc.?

Originally posted by Riwka
hmmm..

In that case you should google around in those arabic newspapers, which cover the stories around this statement, published by local Jordanian newspapers.

I did a google around while waiting for you to respond, and I can't see anything that says that his parents listened to the tape.

This is what I found...

www.newsfromrussia.com...
Text of statement from the family of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, or Ahmed Fadheel Nazzal al-Khalayleh, issued in Jordanian newspapers on Sunday.
[...]
As we pledge to maintain homage to your throne and to our precious Jordan, to sacrifice the dear and the invaluable to you, we denounce in the clearest terms all the terrorist actions claimed by the so-called Ahmed Fadheel Nazzal al-Khalayleh, who calls himself Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Nothing in there about the tape, and nothing about his parents listening to it. And why do they say, ""so-called"? Do they believe this Zarqawi is not the real Ahmed Fadheel Nazzal al-Khalayleh?

Then I found this interesting tidbit:

news.yahoo.com...
Relatives hold senior posts in the army and other government departments.

The plot thickens...dun dun dun dunnn!!

And the evidence:

news.yahoo.com...
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, took an unusually defensive tone in an audiotape posted on the Internet,

You're kidding me. A scratchy low-bit mono mp3 on some random website. That's it?!

The authenticity of the audiotape, posted on an Islamic militant Web forum, could not be confirmed independently, but the voice resembled that of al-Zarqawi on previous tapes.

And here you see the same circle of evidence going round and round. How do we know it's Zarqawi's voice on the tape? Because it sounds like his voice on the OTHER tapes!! Duuuh!!

But would you believe a story that Zarqawi called his family etc.?

Did he? Link me up. Did they trace the call??

[edit on 2005-11-21 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
This is what I found...

www.newsfromrussia.com

News from Russia?

WCIP - you'll have to goolge around in ARABIC newspapers.

Originally posted by Riwka
WCIP - you'll have to goolge around in ARABIC newspapers.

There's no need to shout. I can hear you just fine.

I posted that as it is a straight reprinting of the text of the statement. There were some Arabic English-language sites that I came across, but they were just repeats of the same information in AP, Reuters, etc. Can you give me some pointers as to what specific Arabic papers I should google for to get the best info? Or maybe be gracious enough to post a link from one of the stories which you obviously have bookmarked and are probably open in your browser right now?

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

. Can you give me some pointers as to what specific Arabic papers I should google for to get the best info? Or maybe be gracious enough to post a link from one of the stories which you obviously have bookmarked and are probably open in your browser right now?

WCIP,

My main focus is my own country.

I did not bookmark any arabic media around al-Zarqawi.

But as you 've read in the articles you have googled, for example the Jordanian media ( Al Arab Al Yawm or Ad-Dustour) is covering the stories.

So in case you are looking for proof in a serious way, and you are able to read, listen to and watch the arabic media - for sure you should not miss that opportunity.

Originally posted by Riwka
So in case you are looking for proof in a serious way, and you are able to read, listen to and watch the arabic media - for sure you should not miss that opportunity.

So we come to a stalemate, huh? wcip can't read or understand Arabic, nor does he receive Arabic TV where he lives. If only he could, he would see all the damning evidence in the world laid out before his very eyes. The Jordanian media is reporting it round the clock, but the English-language media is curiously absent this crucial evidence.

So can you read or understand Arabic? Can you tell us exactly what was reported and on what website? Or do I have to do a random google and babelfish everything I find, trying to make sense of the wacky grammar and literal translation thus produced? If you can't read Arabic, then what is your country's news saying the Jordanian news is saying?

[edit on 2005-11-21 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

So we come to a stalemate, huh?

No, WCIP this is no statement.

Neither do I know whether you are able to understand any arabic media, nor do I know if you can watch or listen to arabic media ( - and to be honest: I am not at all interested to know...)

But to answer your question about media in Israel:

Israel provides news in hebrew, arabic, english (our official languages) and Israeli mainstream press, radio and TV is also avaliable in russian, french and german language. Feel free to choose.

And as I said before - I did not bookmark any report regarding al-Zarqawi.

WCIP,

Al-Khalayleh is a branch of the Bani Hassan clan, one of the area's largest and most prominent beduin tribes. Relatives hold senior posts in the army and other government departments.

Al-Zarqawi now will no longer enjoy the protection of his tribe.

I think you can not at all imagine, what this familiy statement means.



[edit on 21-11-2005 by Riwka]

wecomeinpeace wrote:
So we come to a stalemate, huh?

Riwka wrote:
No, WCIP this is no statement.

Err...I said "stalemate", as in an impasse, not "statement".

And as I said before - I did not bookmark any report regarding al-Zarqawi.

You implied that his family had listened to the tape. I asked you where this was reported. You stated confirmation of this was present on Arabic news sites. I asked which sites and where you had seen it. You say that you haven't read any sites with this confirmation. I asked you what your media reports that the Jordanian media is reporting in regards to this. You tell me that Israel's news is available in numerous languages. Where do we go from here?

[edit on 2005-11-21 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Err...I said "stalemate", as in an impasse, not "statement".

I am sorry - my mistake.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

You say that you haven't read any sites with this confirmation.

Wrong, I did NOT say so. I have read /heard /watched news and reports on this - but I did not bookmark any site.


IMHO your intention has been:

1) a person named al-Zarqawi does not exist-------> Failed

and afterwards:

2) there is no terrorist named al-Zarqawi. --------> Also failed,

at least since the family statement has been published.

Now you are looking for "proof" that his big clan, who says in public (in an arabic country!) that he will no longer protect him, has listened to his voice.

After this you could question whether his Mums hering aid is still ok - or if his brother ever loved him.

I do not know where you want to go, wcip.

[edit on 21-11-2005 by Riwka]