Seven Fires - William Commanda

Megwetch masqua - great thread, work.

In two weeks I'll be travelling to Maniwaki to see and talk with William Commanda for a three day workshop/gathering. I'm hoping to have a cleansing sweat while there and ask Grandfather William what he sees in the recent developments happening in the Middle East.

Thanks for all the comments, Sofi, Waffle and WIS...I know I've been ignoring this thread lately, but for two good reasons. First, I see the two paths clearly now...the one to peace and the one to war, but I still am not sure which will be taken, so I have nothing to either be sad or happy about, whichever the case may be. Secondly, I wanted to wait until I would be seeing Grandfather William again and bring this thread into light just prior.

Are there any questions you would ask of him through me? He knows of this thread and knows of the numbers of people who have read the message. I'd be happy to bring your questions to him, as long as they are respectful and heartfelt.
If he chooses to answer them, I'll type them into this thread when I return.



Here is the invitation as it is written in William Commanda's website. I'll be away from ATS during that time and won't be back until late in the following week. My wife and I plan to visit Montreal and Quebec City after the gathering and take our sweet time sightseeing and lollygagging all over the Province of Quebec.
.

[edit on 22-7-2006 by masqua]

Masqua,
You are back and safe. Good, Very Good.
So you will be going soon I look forward to your return. And no I don't have a single intelligent question to offer such a person.
But I do have issues weighing on my heart that perhaps will be mentioned during your stay.
Union, Community, Communication.
You mentioned the Middle East, Our War (my phrase). For months I have been pondering on the peace in our midst, in society among neighbors. We rant, we gossip, we accuse, we kill individual expression, we shun people because they are different, it seems like every single individual demands others to be like them.
Yes this is an ancient dilemma, but how can we enter a new consciousness with such primitive hateful behaviour?
We complain and wonder about the war, about violence, about crime, with out seeing it in our midst.
Don't get me wrong I have been doing serious soul searching to find my own flaws, Ouch, it stings.
How do we overcome our fear of each other, our competitive nature our demand for "perfect" instead of being. We are competing ourselves to death instead of sharing.
How do we reach those who can not hear, see or feel.
Prayers are my last resort, I pray that my hands may be kind and strong, my feet walk with confidence, my words be loving, my ears hear the unspoken words, my eyes see what is important, my heart compassionate, brave and honest, my mind alert and not too inflated.
Blessed be
WIS

Thank you, WIS, for the insightful post...you have touched the 'heart of the problem'

Originally posted by WalkInSilence
I don't have a single intelligent question to offer such a person.

I think you are wrong in this...perhaps the word 'intelligent' is the problem. In my understanding, 'intelligent questions' are the opposite of what I'd like to bring to the gathering because they are 'of the mind. grandfather william warned me about this the last time we talked. We should instead ask ourselves 'questions of the heart' and not based in logic.

But I do have issues weighing on my heart that perhaps will be mentioned during your stay.
Union, Community, Communication.

There you are...you have nailed the key themes of the gathering, which are racial harmony, social justice and peace building. Respect for nature is the fourth theme.

We rant, we gossip, we accuse, we kill individual expression, we shun people because they are different, it seems like every single individual demands others to be like them.

These are the result of our desire to control. As individuals, we become obsessed with our response to what we see happening around us. We then use our cunning minds to try to enlist support from those around us, validating our visions and our fears through the act of forcing consensus. These are indications of the mind at work.

Yes this is an ancient dilemma, but how can we enter a new consciousness with such primitive hateful behaviour?

You see, I knew you had asked the important question... how do we collectively change to bring about the 'new consciousness'(?). The answer, as William Commanda told me those months ago, is for each of us to 'ask our hearts' and ignore the mind. Think of beggars. We walk by and immediately our heart goes out to them, without thought, merely for their desperation in having to ask for a handout.
But then we begin to judge (with our mind) ...

-he/she looks able...why not work like I did?
-he/she looks like a drunk...they will blow my gift on booze
-if I give, I'm only supporting this blight on our streets

...and so forth. William says not to think too much about it. Just follow your hearthfelt instincts and give what you can without putting yourself in financial risk.

How do we overcome our fear of each other, our competitive nature our demand for "perfect" instead of being. We are competing ourselves to death instead of sharing.

Another good way to state the question. Our competative nature does stand between actions of the heart and logical reasoning in regard of our actions.

How do we reach those who can not hear, see or feel.

Only by example, one little step at a time, one small action after another.

Prayers are my last resort, I pray that my hands may be kind and strong, my feet walk with confidence, my words be loving, my ears hear the unspoken words, my eyes see what is important, my heart compassionate, brave and honest, my mind alert and not too inflated

Prayer (imho) is the answer for finding the truth within ourselves. Let it be your first resort. We should take the opportunity to pray as often as we can for as many situations as we come across. Prayer does not have to be specifically 'asking for something'. It can be as simple as 'a feeling of understanding' toward another indiviual, or animal or even a special place which moves us to wish it protection.

If more people felt the way you do, WIS, we would be well on the way to the new paradigm.

I'll be asking that question you have provided... How do we begin to change ourselves by reserving judgements and acting instead from the heart? How can we do this without placing ourselves at risk in this competative environment?

Thanks, WIS

Edit for grammar

[edit on 25-7-2006 by masqua]

Thanks Masqua,
Yes the enviroment, that is one of my top priorities, but right now inter relations are on my heart we need to find a way to communicate.
If we can't listen or talk to each other how can we hope to hear Our Mothers whisper?.
I know we must first give ear to Life but not all know, few have learned this, it must be taught all over again.
May you and your wife have a safe and joyful journey.
Blessed be
WIS

The question asked was this...

How do we begin to change ourselves by reserving judgements and acting instead from the heart? How can we do this without placing ourselves at risk in this competative environment?

...and the answer is quite simple. All you need do is replace the anger, fear and frustration you feel in your heart with love.

I know how that sounds. Ridiculous, right? But it's not..it is the only way we can overcome our fears, anger and frustration. It is definitely not an easy thing to do, especially when we are confronted daily by the rudeness, indifference and the downright thievery of others. But, if we react without malice and, instead, forgive their unenlightened ways, some little bit of your attitude may just infect that poisoned personality enough for them to 'lighten up'.

love is infectious, just as hate is. love is also addictive, as is it's opposite.

If we go through life being wary of the intentions of our fellow human beings, we become detached and indifferent. It becomes a 'way of life'. we become seperated from each other because we choose to do so and begin to put up walls by avoiding eye contact, wearing dead-pan faces and choosing to ignore even friendly comments made by strangers. In the worst case, we even become estranged from our families and friends, because we become addicted to our constant wariness.

Instead, we should bravely make eye contact as often as we dare. I'm not saying you should sidle up to an obviously violent tempered person, lost in their hatred, smile at them sweetly and tell them you love them. But to those you feel you might trust just a little, open up, look them in the eyes and show them that you like them in some small way. I'm not talking about flirtation here...a smile and a comment on the weather is all it takes.

What we do when we open our hearts to others is show kinship, that you and that other person are related just through membership in Club Humanity.

After the weekend in Maniwaki, I actually practiced that purposefullly, and the result was amazing. A slight smile, a small kind comment, a little action on your part, given freely and without expectation always brought the same result. People opened up, started talking, smiling, telling some little bit about their lives and sharing.

For 7 days, I practiced this with purpose. I tried my very best to do it as often as I could...and it is effective.

During a workshop, a man told us that the Gates of the Mysteries are guarded by Dark Powers and that thier only weapon is our fear. If you therefore lose your fear, they will have lost their power and all the mysteries will be revealed to you.

But on the 8th day I had to deal with General Motors Canada about the problem with my almost new car...it didn't go well. Now I've been brooding darkly and have set myself back quite a bit.

Like, I said, it's not easy.

While surfing, I found a very telling article which bears reading in the context of the Seven Fires prophecy. It's a fairly extensive bit of writing, but I've cut and pasted a nice little teaser out of the story for you....

Tor onto Star story

Our greatest experiment — civilization itself — will succeed only if it can live on nature's terms, not Man's. To do this we must adopt principles in which the short term is trumped by the long; in which caution prevails over ingenuity; in which the absurd myth of endless growth is replaced by respect for natural limits; in which progress is steered by precautionary wisdom. This ideological shift is the most urgent task for science and society, for professors, politicians, priests, and writers.

It's also, and more importantly, an urgent task for each and every one of us individually.

Welcome Back Masqua,
I will be looking forward to gather more wisdom from your trip.

Now: Replace................with Love ah yes your words hit the very point of my frustration these days. Our little community is exploding in wrath. And I am partaking not in the open, oh no I am too decent for that no I just let it all brew inside me. Showing a smiling face. I have come to the point where I hate, fear, despise these people.
And I find my self over and over again wondering how people who have been abused (holocaust) remain human. Because I can hardly.
I can not find that love in my heart, I know I must, so I just pray for forgiveness, I pray that Life will teach me to be genuinely kind.

It is so easy to be nice and good when people return your intention with a smile.
How does one in the face of injustice maintain true love?
How?
WIS

Thanks for the 'welcome back', WIS.

One of the things I've come to understand is that the answers to the questions I bring to Elder William actually come from inside of me. All he does is change the framework of my world-view, so that there is a new awareness which comes about by that change. It's always accompanied by the thought; "it's so obvious, why did I never think of it before?"

Wisdom isn't really knowing something no-one else does, it's understanding what has always been known.

Originally posted by WalkInSilence
I have come to the point where I hate, fear, despise these people.

The only answer that you can give these people is to forgive them for being lost in a material world. If you check that Toronto Star story in my previous post, you will see that it is only a matter of time before everyone will have to come to grips with Nature. we cannot control nature, it controls us and will always win. If someone does not see this now, they will eventually.

I can not find that love in my heart, I know I must, so I just pray for forgiveness, I pray that Life will teach me to be genuinely kind.

A little bit at a time, WIS...it's the only thing we can do to change our ways on a personal level.

How does one in the face of injustice maintain true love?
How?
WIS

That's the really, really hard part. It's the one I have the most problem with as well. Sometimes the best thing to do is to turn away and pray that they will see the harm they do.

Here's a little bit of the event which I cobbled together in wordpad...

I learned a lot during the Gathering at a place called kitigan Zibi, near Maniwaki. There were many others who joined my wife and I in the various workshops that were held during the weekend. Most of us stayed in tents.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6982e1be6dbd.jpg[/atsimg]

There were several places upon the grounds where people met in groups. There was the area where the sacred fire was lit and all were invited to pray. Entry was allowed to the fire only after smogging, but there was a continuous flow of people who used the opportunity to offer tobacco and cedar as offerings to the Creator after prayer. In this picture you will see sweat lodges and a teepee which were also in use throughout the weekend.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ffa095461730.jpg[/atsimg]

There was also an area set aside for drumming and dancing. A very popular event each evening with the very young and the very old taking part. The drums beat from 8PM until 10PM each night.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/12e983d384da.jpg[/atsimg]

The setting beside this beautiful lake made quiet reflection on the days events particularly easy to manage.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/078920a0de75.jpg[/atsimg]

After we left Quebec, we tookthe time to visit the oldest city in Canada. A place called Kingston, where I took these two photos. The first is a plaque outlining how the area was bought from the indigenous people. The second shows old Fort Henry and a ship which would have patrolled the waters in front of it.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f87929169c5b.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3b92756c6419.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 10/3/09 by masqua]

Regarding the subjects in this post.
(I tend to become personal, derailing the subject, sorry)

It is only a matter of time before man must come to grips with nature, this is the most confusing aspect, I have read this over and over and I am still in denial.
Unless our society collapses as it is, we will proceed to depend on industrial made comforts, medicine, housing, food.
We no longer function as a society but as individuals, this is perhaps our greatest problem. We view co-dependency as an evil.
I myself will turn into a vegetable within months, if I am deprived of my B12 shots. Should this happen I would just rush out and enjoy life to it's limit until I no longer could recall my own name.
We are SO dependant of all of civilisations "blessings".

What does this mean, "come to grips with" ?

I see people live in fortresses of total isolation from the outside world they have allergies, they can't stand the sun, the wind, the cold what ever nature "naturally" gives them. They are like refined pedigree animals.
They use "air fresheners" instead of cleaning, opening a window, burning incense, or using herbs, and can't understand why they have sinus problems.

I do have some hope though, in our neck of the woods, North America, we have managed to make a point of keeping our larger predators, birds and mammals. I see this as a sign of holding on to the strength of survival within us.

In many European countries it has been a struggle to reinforce almost extinct species. I think any country who has lost any of its habitat has lost part of its soul.
I would give you an example but it would be a long tale.

Am I too far fetched here? Sorry if I am, I didn't mean to impose my opinions on you.

WIS

by WalkInSilence
What does this mean, "come to grips with" ?

You always ask the best questions

You mentioned industrial made comforts, medicines, food and housing as items of our civilization, and, to a certain extent, that's true. But, consider those societies who deny modern life, doing without electricity, gasoline powered engines or even modern medicine. I live among a huge population of Mennonite people who do exactly that. Certainly they use roads for their horse drawn buggies and buy cloth at the local Walmarts...but, they don't need to...it's only a convenience.

So...what does that have to do with 'coming to grips with nature'?

Let me put it this way; if suddenly, through a huge solar flare event all the electrity distribution lines were to melt on their towers and every light bulb, computer, stove, telephone suddenly went dead and stayed dead for months..how do you think we would fare?

Certainly some would fire up their gas powered generators, but that'd only last until the gas ran out. Pumps need electricity to run, trucks need gas to deliver food, industry would fail and our civilization would, in essence...stop.

It's a hypothetical situation and may never happen again, but it already has happened before;

www.mso.anu.edu.au...

During the last 'solar maximum' period, a particularly large sunspot (54
times larger than the Earth, yet still it covered only 0.3% of the solar
disc) threw out, over several days, several extreme solar flares with
temperatures around 20 million degrees. One such flare, on March 6,
1989, was the second strongest X-ray flare to have been measured since
X-ray monitoring began in 1976. Seven days later, ground-induced
currents caused by these flares resulted in a transformer failure on one
of the main power lines in Canada's HydroQuebec power system. The
sequence of events that followed took just 90 seconds -- there was no
time for action to be taken -- and six million people lost power for at
least nine hours.

That was recently, but it has happened even further back, when we were less dependant upon electricity

www.solarstorms.org...

August 28, 1859 - The Superstorm. - This storm was observed world-wide and is, historically, one of the greatest events recorded in the last 150 years. Extensive eyewitness accounts and scientific studies, telegraph disturbances and the unique sighting of a spectacular solar flare make this event one of the most interesting solar storms to read about. [Newspaper Archive]

and from the above link...

…Never in my experience of fifteen years in working telegraph lines have I witnessed anything like the extraordinary effect of the Aurora Borealis between Quebec and Farther Point last night. The line was in most perfect order, and well skilled operators worked incessantly from 8 o'clock last evening till 1 this morning to get over in an intelligible form four hundred words of the report per steamer Indian for the Associated Press, and at the latter hour so completely were the wires under the influence of the Aurora Borealis that it was found utterly impossible to communicate between the telegraph stations, and the line had to be closed. The same difficulty prevailed as far south as Washington…[Rochester Union & Advertizer, Tuesday Evening August 30, 1859].

What I'm saying here is that nature is not just our environment on planet Earth...we are also at the mercy of our sun. Further to that is the shooting gallery of the comets, asteroids and meteorites which can at any time cause us to revert back to fending for ourselves. Nature extends throughout the solar system and beyond and we are very much at its mercy, even though we tend not to think much about it, nor prepare for what it can do.

When I say we must come to grips with nature, I mean that we must be self reliant and able to adapt quickly when those niceties of western civilization are yanked away.

We have become complacent, thinking that we will never have to make do without electricity, but that's a dangerous fallacy. War also seems to be a perpetual pastime of humanity, so not only do we run the risk of natural causes for the loss of our civilization, but we are also very capable of doing it to each other. One of the first casualties of war is infrastructure like power plants and electrical distribution.

Coming to grips with nature is being on an even footing with her, being resilient to catastrophic events and even being at peace can play a part.

Our civilization is driven by oil, electricity, big corporations and the bottom line, with no thought to the fact that we are driven further and further from self-reliance. They, the multinational global corporations make us into slaves because we seem to have no recourse but to buy only their products. If that system were ever to fail...where would we be? How do we change that? By coming to an understanding of what we need to do as neighbours and communities, being able to stand on our own and seeing how nature can provide everything we need to sustain our lives.

In the context of the Seven Fires prophecy, I think this is a very important thing to do.



[edit on 18-8-2006 by masqua]

Dear Masqua,
I love your detailed explanations.

Perhaps I should rephrase my question from "What does coming to grips mean?" to What will happen to those that don't?, because that is my concern.

How have we arrived to the point in evolution where man has become unconscious of his surroundings, indifferent to the point of exterminating him self?
Is man in general beyound recovery?

WIS

"In this time there will be a new people who will emerge from the clouds of illusion." Intresting Prophecies. I wonder if thes "new people" are going to be a jump in human evolution. Also I wander what they ment by "clouds of illusion". Intresting, very intresting.

Thanks for your input, halfmask and WIS.

I'll try to answer your questions as best I can, but always in the context of what i've learned from Elder William Commanda and the Seven Prophets of the Seven Fires belt.

Working backwards, halfmask asked; "I wander what they ment by "clouds of illusion"

In the prophecy itself, the words are written like this:

"In this time there will be a new people who will emerge from the clouds of illusion."

I speculated about that myself, and in the first interview I had with Elder William I had the opportunity to ask him. In my mind I thought of aliens from another planet, like the Nefilim, but was told that these people would be 'Rainbow Warriors'. From what he told me, he thought that during the 60's, when men grew their hair long people and wore feathers in their hair, that the time of the Rainbow Warrior was already here. The people of that time seemed to care about the 'circle of life', community spirit, selflessnes and a turning away from the material way. However, it proved to be too early and the path was lost because of drugs. However, it is not gone forever, and, like the tide, the hope of that time will be reborn, this time without drugs to confuse us.

I did some Googling to find a reasonable explanation for Rainbow Warriors and found this;

www.powersource.com...

There would come a time when the "keepers of the legend, stories, culture rituals, and myths, and all the Ancient Tribal Customs" would be needed to restore us to health. They would be mankinds’ key to survival, they were the "Warriors of the Rainbow". There would come a day of awakening when all the peoples of all the tribes would form a New World of Justice, Peace, Freedom and recognition of the Great Spirit.

The "Warriors of the Rainbow" would spread these messages and teach all peoples of the Earth or "Elohi". They would teach them how to live the "Way of the Great Spirit". They would tell them of how the world today has turned away from the Great Spirit and that is why our Earth is "Sick".

The "Warriors of the Rainbow" would show the peoples that this "Ancient Being" (the Great Spirit), is full of love and understanding, and teach them how to make the "Earth or Elohi" beautiful again. These Warriors would give the people principles or rules to follow to make their path right with the world. These principles would be those of the Ancient Tribes. The Warriors of the Rainbow would teach the people of the ancient practices of Unity, Love and Understanding. They would teach of Harmony among people in all four comers of the Earth.

The 'clouds of illusion' which is mentioned is easily explained. They are an analogy to 'false needs'. Do we really need that 4x4? Do we each need to have 10 different pieces of machinery that run on the internal combustion engine? Do we truly need to depend on diamonds and gold to show our value as humans? Do we need to attack countries halfway around the globe because the government says so without proving why? How much of our lifestyle is truly neccessary? Those are the clouds of illusion...we have been fooled into thinking that material things are what truly count when in fact the opposite is true.

Halfmask also asked; "I wonder if thes "new people" are going to be a jump in human evolution"

That is a most sincere hope that I have as well. I do believe it's possible and have read much speculation about that, especially here at ATS...

ATS list of threads about Spiritual Ascension

and, in Google itself

www.google.ca...

There's plenty of material available on this subject, as you can see. It is my thinking that the principles by which Rainbow Warriors live their lives will bring about the paradigm shift which is needed for the spiritual ascension.

Now, to WIS and her questions...

WIS asked; "Is man in general beyound recovery?"

Simply put, no. The vast majority of humanity already lives in conditions dependent totally on living in harmony with nature. These are the folks who live in the 'third world' and have no choice but to eke a living from what they grow in family or community plots...they have no cars, televisions, tractors or any of the modern machinery which we, in the west are accustomed to. These people live a very hard life, both ignored and feared by those who have everything. Even among the nations which have most of the wealth in the world, there are many people who would easily do without the oil and electricity. The Amish and Mennonite way of life wouldn't change a bit by the removal of these things. There is also a growing desire by many young people to build their houses so that they are more efficient in power consumption, they buy smaller cars which use less gas and have better emmision controls and even are interested in wind power and solar panels, so that instead of using power are actually feeding back into the electricity grid and earning money from the process. (in fact, when I finally move north, it will be into a house which is totally self-sufficient).
So, no, WIS...we are not beyond recovery or hope.

WIS asked; "How have we arrived to the point in evolution where man has become unconscious of his surroundings, indifferent to the point of exterminating him self?"

I think the above answer explains why I believe we are changing for the better. We are quickly becoming aware of how our environment nurtures us and keeps us alive. But it also teaches us that if we are not careful, a poisoned environment reflects back on us as well, poisoning and killing people and animals. We just have to find a balance and I think that it is slowly happening.

And finally, WIS asked; "Perhaps I should rephrase my question from "What does coming to grips mean?" to What will happen to those that don't?, because that is my concern."

Those people who refuse to change will be paying more and more for their gas guzzling vehicles, higher and higher electricity bills, they will be puzzled why they can't use pesticides on their lawns and be too lazy to pull the weeds...their property values will plummet because no-one will want to buy their inefficient houses. In other words, those who refuse to change will feel it in the worst place of all...their pocketbooks.
What I learned in talking toElder William in regard to this was that the threat is not immediate...that there are years left to us. He said this month that we still have time to change and make a big enough difference.
The one thing that does threaten us all, though... the choice beween the path of peace and the path of war. How much time do we have before the world plunges into a war? We are already at war, so that's too late. How long before we plunge into a global nuclear war? I don't know, but I'm making plans...

I've just read through this thread from the beginning (thank you for sharing all of this great information, it was very interesting to read).
But you have to wonder that Human's are just destined for the wrong path, because it's inherent in their nature...No, not everyone (not myself- because I do care), but society as a whole has come to a point where it seems as if it doesn't care anymore.
For example: Every single day, there are corporations ripping down forests and pouring concrete over fields, building and building (when there's plenty of vacant properties that could be bought instead and rebuilt/refurbished for industrial needs). Building of more houses because farmers decided to sell their farmland to builders for the big money they are offered, which is essentially driving out all of the wildlife, who are left with no place to go. Companies are polluting the air and water, as are individuals with use of certain everyday products, or simply driving their vehicles...and the cycle goes on and on. Soon, what will be left? It seems as almost if it's "too late" for humankind to turn around as a whole...that only some of us will, but others couldn't care one way or the other what happens in the long run, which is a shame.

Originally posted by Purgatory
I've just read through this thread from the beginning (thank you for sharing all of this great information, it was very interesting to read).
But you have to wonder that Human's are just destined for the wrong path, because it's inherent in their nature...No, not everyone (not myself- because I do care), but society as a whole has come to a point where it seems as if it doesn't care anymore.
For example: Every single day, there are corporations ripping down forests and pouring concrete over fields, building and building (when there's plenty of vacant properties that could be bought instead and rebuilt/refurbished for industrial needs). Building of more houses because farmers decided to sell their farmland to builders for the big money they are offered, which is essentially driving out all of the wildlife, who are left with no place to go. Companies are polluting the air and water, as are individuals with use of certain everyday products, or simply driving their vehicles...and the cycle goes on and on. Soon, what will be left? It seems as almost if it's "too late" for humankind to turn around as a whole...that only some of us will, but others couldn't care one way or the other what happens in the long run, which is a shame.

In the condition you propose humans would mostly like die of before the rest of nature. Then at this point nature would most likly adapt to the harsh conditions left by humans(Able to re-evolve because, the contition is no longer getting worse without humans around.) and recover the earth. In the end we will be the ones who suffer from our own faults. Nature doesn't need us but, we need nature.

Also I would like to add. What if "Rainbow Warriors" referes to a group of multi-race/coulored people who are not out of the ordanary but, can see through the cloud of illusion.

Nature doesn't need us but, we need nature.

Yes, I agree. though, unfortuantely most people don't feel that way. But the damage that is being done to the planet every single day by Humans is (in the long run) going to cause a lot of problems for the planet, for wild life, and for nature in general. I do believe, however, that the earth is very capable of cleansing itself when it feels it needs to. Perhaps we're already seeing this through much of the natural disasters that have been occurring in the last decade or so?

[edit on 28-8-2006 by Purgatory]

Originally posted by PurgatoryPerhaps we're already seeing this through much of the natural disasters that have been occurring in the last decade or so?

I wish it were only the natural disasters which bother me.

Declining fish stocks in the oceans, spreading deserts and famine, a growing chasm between the rich and the poor, chemical contamination of groundwater (streams,rivers), declining water tables, air pollution, growing ozone holes, wars based on religious differences and the introduction of Terminator seeds are all hints that we are approaching a tipping point.

Perhaps when we have past that point it will be a very slow and painful decent into the final abyss. Just a flicker from my bright and cheerful Christmas Spirit.

Is it possible to view the destruction of Nature as a parallel to the behaviour of humans are they not inter twined, not only a physical consequence but metaphysically.
What is the impact of our mentality on Nature.
We are inclined to destroy diversity within our own race, diversity in nature is declining.
We substitute nature with manipulated "convenient" artificial species, doesn't this sound like television.

I have more but it's all bundled up.
The geese still haven't gone south,
hundreds graze on the fields behind our home every day, so odd.
Merry Winter ( Where are those chem-trails when you need snow for skiing)
WIS