Seven Fires - William Commanda

Originally posted by WalkInSilence
Masqua
But for those of us with "pale" skin ( I often feel the shame of my race) is there no rescue should we not all change our path? Are we doomed all? What of those who truely feel the calling and walk it?
I read the Credo Mutwa interview months ago, very good, but soo long, I find this more down to earth and comprehencable.
I do not know if you wish to hear personel spiritual statements of experienses about the condition of our Mother Earth?
WIS

I think that remaining with the 'wight skin' would be as though remaining in the same dualistic state of mind. If we merely halt this racial dillusion then I believe that the two roads of the path will be clear and that you will know which you took.

(The 'wight skin' could allso mean something less litteral)

Thanks, The Surrealist...for your comments...

There is a website which I've found, created by Micheal Swinwood called Elders and Prophets, containing the section: elders without borders.

In it are explained the prophecies of Elder William Commanda, a Hopi; Grandfather Martin Gashwesoma, a Maya named Elder Hunbatz Men and an Incan called William Huayta. All four caution us, mainly for our disregard of the spiritual connection to the Earth. It does make an interesting, if lengthy read and dovetails neatly with your post

In order to better understand the relationships between the indigenous peoples of south, central and northern America, I've begun reading a set of related books. One, which has relevance to your comment, is A Forest of Kings by Linda Schele and David Freidel (1990 ISBN0-688-07456-1), in that it shows the Maya to be, rather than a dead civilization many assume, still culturally alive and steeped in precolumbian thinking.

The conquerers from the east may have destroyed hundreds of thousands of their books and sacred artifacts, so that there is little left, and they may have squashed their ritual activities which seemed so horrid to Christians 5 centuries ago...but the mindset among these people has persevered in that they still understand their world view as they did so long ago.

It is remarkable, as we struggle to understand their exceptional skills at writing from a paltry few remaing bark 'accordion style' books and much adornment in stone and statuary, that we find within those remaining populations on the Yucatan, a reflection of that world-view the deciphered glypths show us.

i.e. The Maya hold the symbol of the tree as the axis which coexists in three domains; the sky which holds the heavenly 'Otherworld' (spiritworld), the trunk which goes through the 'Middleworld' (material world) and the roots which sat in the 'Underworld' (region of the dead). Elder William and his 'spruce tree' symbolism is identical, imo.

As I discover more and more material, such as related literature and such interesting websites as Micheal Swinwoods, the message becomes clearer to me. I'm not going to like to do what is needed and neither is anyone else who enjoys the lifestyle we've grown accustomed to. But, we can either heed these prophets and carry on hoping for the best or we can begin to make that paradigm shift they are all suggesting.

Forget trying to change Big Oil or Multinational Conglomorates, Superpower Governments or Petty Dictators...the changing has to be done inside of each individual on a personal level. Only you or I can change things...the governments and movements are gollums which cannot adapt and must stumble blindly on in their quest for bottom lines and investor confidence.

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Originally posted by masqua
Forget trying to change Big Oil or Multinational Conglomorates, Superpower Governments or Petty Dictators...the changing has to be done inside of each individual on a personal level. Only you or I can change things...the governments and movements are gollums which cannot adapt and must stumble blindly on in their quest for bottom lines and investor confidence.

..

And as you quoted, that the ones (the governments and movements are gollums which cannot adapt and must stumble blindly on in their quest for bottom lines and investor confidence.) who prefer and envelope there blind way of life will shurly crumble because of it. And the ones who let all attachments become past will come out of the struggle (made by the dillusionalists) with a new mind.

Your words are inspiring, you speak the truth in a sence of experience and opportunity.

It seems as though in chapter V. that the left side is intelligence, and the right side is wisdom (Or can withold those charectaristics) (more or less).

[edit on 7/12/05 by The Surrealist]

Originally posted by worldwatcher

Interestingly, Elder William notes the events of September 11, 2001, as being the moment in time when the light skinned race were given a choice between those two roads.

Does the Elder or anyone else claim to know which road was taken?

I have my opinion on which one but wondered if they had anything to say or confirm my beliefs.

The responses from Elder William are sometimes slow in coming, but the answers always do come, worldwatcher. I received an email this morning from
Circleof All Nations in response to your question. I had asked if I was right that there still was hope, even more than 4 years after 9/11 had happened and received this affirmation:

"Yes you are on the right track. He does think Sept. 11 was a decisive moment, but he still hopes that some people will be reached, and so he works indefatigably for respect for Mother Earth and Racial Harmony."

I am hoping to be able to meet Elder William in person on December 18, which is a Sunday, at which time I will be able to ask questions anyone may have in regard to the prophecy or his efforts.

He is approaching 92 years soon and I feel an urgent need to be in his presence. I can't explain it, other than my growing respect for this enlightened person.

.edit to delete promotional material

(thanks, Um_Gazz...really

[edit on 8-12-2005 by masqua]

Film maker, John Houston, is producing a film about the legends of Kiviuk (correctly spelled Kiviuq), a story that he says is on a par with Homers Odyssey.

These legends, preserved in the oral tradition, have been passed down through the hundreds of generations and somehow retained its integrity. Different villages kept seperate parts alive, but when Houston interviewed 50 elders last September, the entire story came out.

One elder, Samson Quinangnaq, from Baker Lake, talked for 7 hours relating his story. He said to Houston; "It's the bible of the Inuit. Kiviuq was a prophet and these stories are his parables."

The movie is scheduled for completion by next fall and will be broadcast initially on the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network (APTN).

The reason why I'm including this in the Seven Fires thread is to show that, contrary to the standard thinking, the aboriginal peoples of North America did have prophets and creation myths which predate the coming of the missionaries. The elders were afraid to tell this story in fear of these missionaries, who told them that Inuit traditions were devil worship.

The same suppression has influenced much of the oral traditions throughout the Americas. However, regardless of such a determined effort by those who would see all of that destroyed and forgotten, it is apparent that 500 years was not enough. The destruction of the library in Alexandria pales in comparison to what has happened in the Americas, when you consider the human suffering which went along with the subjegation to European theology. And yet, it survives to this day in the stories of Kiviuq and the Seven Fires Prophecy.

edited for grammar

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[edit on 10-12-2005 by masqua]

Due to circumstances which always crop up when long distances are involved, I was not able to meet with Elder William on Dec. 18.

However, we have established a new appointment and my wife and myself will be meeting with him on the morning of Wednesday, Jan. 11.

If anyone has questions which they would like us to ask him, please add them onto this thread. The deadline for questions will have to be the evening of the 9th (since it is 8 hours travel time to get there). We'll be leaving early Tuesday morning and returning home late Wednesday evening.

It is a rare honour to meet with such a great man and consider it the opportunity of a lifetime. His wisdom and accomplishments are stunning and his message is timely for us all.

I hope winter doesn't throw me a curve ball.
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edit to add: U2U me if you'd rather not add your question to the thread.

[edit on 6-1-2006 by masqua]

After meeting with Elder William Commanda yesterday morning, I'm finding it extemely difficult to put into words all the things I have learned from him.

He spoke for much of the meeting, hardly giving me time to ask questions, and yet he answered all of them completely. For a man of 92 years, his life experiences were plucked from his sharp memory one by one and then applied with reference to the Seventh Fire (the one which was lit by 911).

He happened to be in South Africa at the time, shopping in a mall when he experienced the events of that morning in a vision. He was to return to New York the next morning, but was, of course, delayed in his flight plans.

However, because of that delay he gained an opportunity to meet with Credo Mutwa, the shaman who also tells a prophecy much like the Seven Fires Prophecy. If you've never heard of Credo Mutwa, I believe I've provided a link further back in this thread. It is well worth reading for comparison.

When the Seventh Fire was lit, we, as the light skinned race in the prophecy will have to make a choice...to either fail in a horrible war and immerse all the world to a maelstrom of destruction or, to allow the Seventh Fire to light the Eighth Fire of peace, love, brotherhood and sisterhood. The Choice is for each one of us to make.

IMO I find the circumstances surrounding the breaking of the seals on Iran's nuclear enriching program to be particularly worrying right now. This action has the potential to bring major powers into a theater of war much like the prophesy has warned us about. It seems the choice between the road to war and the road to peace may be before us in a very short time.

I'm planning an in-depth post in response to this visit, but I need time to reflect on all the things he has told me before I steam ahead with a rash synopsis of so much information. I'd like to also augment this future post with links to news items, many from ATS itself, to show their relevance with what is said in the latter and final part of the prophecy.

looking forward to your post masqua

> "In this time there will be a new people who will emerge from the clouds of illusion."

I find this expression, 'people from the clouds of illusion', to be a bit odd. People either exist or don't, they can't be illusions, was my first thogts.. But we actually have illusionary people. Cartoons, robots, androids (like Data from ST) and even actors can be considered. The people that actors play are fantasy or 'from the clouds of illusion'. Data (Brent Spiner) fulfills two of the mentioned possible illusionary people (actor and android ).

> "They will retrace their steps to find the treasures that had been left by the trail. The stories that had been lost will be returned to them. They will remember the Original Instructions and find strength in the way of the circle."

I don't understand this part. I guess one must understand what exactly this 'trail' mentioned is to understand. I obviously don't think one mean an actual trail...
'The way of the circle' seems to point towards the witches with their circular rituals and dance, not to say 'circle' (group!).

Anyway I doubt the path to a peaceful future lies by not thinking. Feelings do not lead to the truth in my experience, only more trouble. Hate overrule all other feelings and so long as feelings exist there will be hatred and wars. As long as certain rich people and the media promote racism/facism and pro-war opinions I guess the way downhill is here to stay.
Altoght I like the Hopi-indians idea of 'one people' it is probably a product of naivete/ignorance or fantasy. On the other hand I guess the 'one people' (see hopi legends and my signature) is the only way to really combat racism and thus in the end wars.

Greetings,

Masqua, I've been lurking around on this board for months. Reading this thread and what you have put together compelled me to make my first post ever! Very well done, and I am looking forward to the info on your meeting.
I agree, the timing of the Iran sitaution in conjuction with the presented facts by yourself is a little disconcerting. I am going to go back and research all the links you provided.
Also, when you said that Elder Commanda lived in Kanata, did you mean Kanata, Ontario in Canada? Just curious....

Originally posted by Amano_Jacku
Greetings,

...when you said that Elder Commanda lived in Kanata, did you mean Kanata, Ontario in Canada? Just curious....

That's correct, Amano_Jacku...his 'office' is in Kanata, Ontario. That's basically a suburb of the city of Ottawa now and quite the busy spot, as you probably know. Thank you for taking an interest in this thread about the Seven Fires prophecy.

His true home is in Manwaki, Quebec, however, where he is an Algonquin Elder from Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg. He was the acclaimed chief of that reserve for 19 years.

He has been very active in world affairs over the years and has a website, built by web master Scott Towajj, called Circle of All Nations which can be visited for updates on all of Elder William's accomplisments.
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[edit on 19/12/08 by masqua]

Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by masqua The First Prophet told the people that in the time of the First Fire they would leave their homes by the sea and follow the sign of the megis.

What is a 'Megis'?

The "Megis" was one of the primary symbols that represents the Medawewin religion. The Megis is a little shell called a cowry shell. The word "Cowry" was derived from a Hindu word and is defined as "Any of various tropical marine mollusks of the family Cypraeidae, having glossy, often brightly marked shells, some of which were used for money in the South Pacific and Africa.

link

To me, this seems fairly similar to other pilgimages like that of the Jews in Exodus following a pillar of clouds at day, and a pillar of fire at night

Exodus 13:20 They set out from Succoth, and camped at Etham, on the edge of the wilderness. 21 The LORD went in front of them in a pillar of cloud by day, to lead them along the way, and in a pillar of fire by night, to give them light, so that they might travel by day and by night. 22 Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the people.
link

Ghaele,

Good ideas and thoughts on those 2 points. Personally, I think the first point of "people emerging from the cloud of illusion" was meant more on a spirtual level. As in, an awakening of conciousness in certain people caused by the 7 fires and the warning signs they bring.
Retracing the steps on the trail seemed like a "time" metaphor to me. The trail being a timeline where we can recover the ways we lived in better harmony with the earth in the past than we do at persent.(after the requisite spirtual awakening, or "emerging from the cloud of illusion") Just some thoughs, no offence meant...

Originally posted by Ghaele
> "In this time there will be a new people who will emerge from the clouds of illusion."

I find this expression, 'people from the clouds of illusion', to be a bit odd. People either exist or don't, they can't be illusions, was my first thogts.. But we actually have illusionary people. Cartoons, robots, androids (like Data from ST) and even actors can be considered. The people that actors play are fantasy or 'from the clouds of illusion'. Data (Brent Spiner) fulfills two of the mentioned possible illusionary people (actor and android

).

The clouds of illusion could also refer to the reality which we have become accustomed to accepting. We have developed, over the millenia, a set of moral principles which are unique to 'Western Ideology'. From Platonic thinking to the Christian base of ethics and onward into the schisms and problematic alliances between democracy and monarchy, theology and science, capitalism and trade. This is our 'world view'. For example, there is
the illusion that a dollar bill has value...in reality it has none other that what we agree it has. The same can be said for gold and diamonds. The fact that we give our governments power over our populations is also an illusion, in that we can remove that trust at any time.
Elder William talked about this during my visit. He pointed out that the first thing the Europeans did was divide Turtle Island into two parts...America and Canada...and then further divided those two parts into many others over time. To the natives, it seperated the nations...now divided by the mysterious illusion of borders.

from the bookLearning from a kindergarten dropout by Romola Thumbadoo (ISBN 0-9738693-0-5)

The struggles commence with the land, and this remains an issue of great contention. The fundamentaly opposed understanding of one's place and responsibilities on the Earth, the opposing viewpoints of owning land versus being owned by the land, and the new energy of 'commodifying' what had been viewed as sacred: these constitute the climate of confusion, misunderstanding, exploitation and expropriation under which the land treaties were negotiated, and they bred a legacy of distrust and conflict.

> "They will retrace their steps to find the treasures that had been left by the trail. The stories that had been lost will be returned to them. They will remember the Original Instructions and find strength in the way of the circle."

I don't understand this part. I guess one must understand what exactly this 'trail' mentioned is to understand. I obviously don't think one mean an actual trail...

This is one of the more confusing passages within the prophecy itself. I've speculated upon this earlier in the thread by relating it to other legends elsewhere, such as the returning Nefilim of Sumerian tradition. I talked to Elder William about this, and while he did not directly say that the 'New People' come from somewhere out in space, he did not deny it either, but nodded his head that this is so. He then talked about the young people of the 60's and how they became interested in the Red Path and wore feathers in their hair. He called them Rainbow Warriors and held out a great hope for their ways of understanding. Could the Rainbow Warriors be the New People? Personally, I'm convinced that the prophecy is talking about visitation from an alien race, that they have, in the distant past, come here before and that, in their return will bring an end to war. That they have left 'treasures along the trail' only adds weight to this notion (to me).

'The way of the circle' seems to point towards the witches with their circular rituals and dance, not to say 'circle' (group!).

Good point! I have had experience with the symbologies and rituals of Wicca and noticed a remarkable similarity between both the 'old pagan religions' of pre-Christian Europe and the Native American concepts of the 'Sacred Circle'. There is much here to discuss. In a basic simplification of its meaning, it is the 'interconnectedness' of all of life.

from the book Learning from a kindergarten dropout

The symbol of the circle is fundamental to the ideologies of indigenous and pagan cultures. The Medicine Wheel/Circle concept incorporates a cyclical view of life. There are many variations of the symbol, and its teachings are complex and endless.

It is essential for the medicine Wheel to be balanced, with no domination of any one spectrum. The Medicine Wheel spins and is always in motion. For Indigenous peoples of North America, the Medicine Wheel can represent the following and much more:

. The four cardinal directions- east, south, west, and north
. The four elements- fire, earth, water and air
. The four winds- east, south, west and north
. The four seasons- spring,summer,autumn and winter
. The four symbolic races- yellow, red, black and white
. The four dimensions of human nature- emotional, physical, spiritual and mental

Anyway I doubt the path to a peaceful future lies by not thinking. Feelings do not lead to the truth in my experience, only more trouble. Hate overrule all other feelings and so long as feelings exist there will be hatred and wars. As long as certain rich people and the media promote racism/facism and pro-war opinions I guess the way downhill is here to stay.
Altoght I like the Hopi-indians idea of 'one people' it is probably a product of naivete/ignorance or fantasy. On the other hand I guess the 'one people' (see hopi legends and my signature) is the only way to really combat racism and thus in the end wars.

These certainly are honest opinions and I thank you for sharing them.

Elder William had much to say on this subject (and he has had dialogue with the Hopi...he talked at length about it to me). I can only say, at this time, that there is a vast difference between what reason dictates one should do and what your heart tells you is the right course.

Thanks for the excellent questions, Ghaele...

I kinda messed up in the previous post, but here is the gist of what I was trying to convey in it...

On the Circle of All Nations website, you will note a 'breaking news' link. When you click on it it will bring up a pdf file titled 'A report on William Commanda's work in 2005'.

It makes interesting reading for those who would like to know more of what he does and how it applies to the Seven Fires prophecy.

from the pdf file

"It was prophesied that the time would come when the voice of the indigenous peoples would rise again after 500 years of silence and oppression, to light a path to an external fire of peace, love, brotherhood and sisterhood amongst all nations."

We must come together with one heart, one mind, one love and one determination.
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who are the anishinabe i've never heard of them?

who are the anishinabe i've never heard of them?

who are the anishinabe i've never heard of them?

Originally posted by ArtemisFowl
who are the anishinabe i've never heard of them?

Here is a quick read outlining who the Anishinabeg were. They lived in the area covered by Labrador in the north to the Carolinas in the south and from the Atlantic coast to the Rocky mountains east to west.
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Masqua,

So I guess we are at or near the 500 year mark then? A solid "start of opression" date would be hard to nail down, but the limited research I did is pointing to about the late 1500s to early 1600s. Would you consider the first contact with Europeans ( I guess 1492 or there abouts) the start of this opression in regards to the seven fires prophecy, or when settlement of colonies started in earnest, about 1600? Just curious as to your opinion...
Also, I'm gonna have to keep watch on the events section of Elder Commanda's webpage, in case he speaks locally here in Ottawa sometime! I think that would be a real treat, seems like a very wise man with the best interest of everyone (and the planet) in mind....unfortunatley a rare trait these days. (and no, I am not a "hippie" or a "love can save us all" kind of person, but something has to change in the overall perception/conciousness of the world in gereral)
And on the troublesome Iran front, I ran into this today on the CNN website. Just in case you are interested, here is the link.

www.cnn.com...

More potential fuel to the fire I guess....Can't see that going well. hope its not another signpost on the "wrong path".