New Revelations: Was Pat Tillman Martyred? Nothing "Friendly" About It But The Timing

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 07:05 PM
link   
"Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat [explitive!] Tillman, dammit...” were the last words repeatedly shouted by the recruitment poster child of the expanding global war on terror. Then three bullets to the forehead, just one week before the public outing of the Abu Ghraib scandal, silenced him permanently. New revelations as to what he was about to say regarding Bush's War on Iraq however are nothing less than shocking.

FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH
New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillman’s death
SFGate.com
Robert Collier, Chronicle Staff Writer
Sunday, September 25, 2005


The battle between a grieving family and the U.S. military justice system is on display in thousands of pages of documents strewn across Mary Tillman’s dining room table in suburban San Jose.

As she pores through testimony from three previous Army investigations into the killing of her son, former football star Pat Tillman, by his fellow Army Rangers last year in Afghanistan, she hopes that a new inquiry launched in August by the Pentagon’s inspector general finally will answer the family’s questions:

Were witnesses allowed to change their testimony on key details, as alleged by one investigator? Why did internal documents on the case, such as the initial casualty report, include false information? When did top Pentagon officials know that Tillman’s death was caused by friendly fire, and why did they delay for five weeks before informing his family?

“There have been so many discrepancies so far that it’s hard to know what to believe,” Mary Tillman said. “There are too many murky details.”


Indeed. And the plot thickens.


Interviews also show a side of Pat Tillman not widely known — a fiercely independent thinker who enlisted, fought and died in service to his country yet was critical of President Bush and opposed the war in Iraq, where he served a tour of duty. He was an avid reader whose interests ranged from history books on World War II and Winston Churchill to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author.


"I don't believe it," seethed conspiracy theorist Ann Coulter, who's career seems to be regaining focus with her obvious talents for attacking the credibility of grieving mother's.

Hannity, Coulter "don't believe" that Tillman liked Noam Chomsky, opposed Iraq war, Supported John Kerry; Tillman's mother disagrees
MediaMatters.org


On the September 27 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, co-host Sean Hannity and right-wing pundit Ann Coulter told co-host Alan Colmes that they "don't believe" a report that Army Ranger Pat Tillman was a fan of leftist author Noam Chomsky, opposed the Iraq war, and planned to vote for Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) in the 2004 presidential election. But according to a September 25 San Francisco Chronicle report that Colmes cited, Tillman's mother said that he had planned to meet privately with Chomsky and that "Pat was very critical of the whole Iraq war." Tillman, a former pro football star, served in Iraq before being killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan in April 2004.

Responding to Colmes's statement that Tillman "was a Noam Chomsky fan, was going to vote for John Kerry, was against the war in Iraq," Coulter insisted, "I don't believe it." Hannity concurred, saying, "I don't believe it either."


But she and other's did believe the initial official story from the Pentagon that the football player that selflessly spurned a $3.6 million contract extension to fight al Qaeda had died heroically in combat with the enemy. President Bush hailed him as “an inspiration on and off the football field, as with all who made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror.” Coulter herself praised Tillman as "an American original — virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be."

His ultimate sacrifice:


Pat Tillman, according to testimony, climbed a hill with another soldier and an Afghan militiaman, intending to attack the enemy. He offered to remove his 28-pound body armor so he could move more quickly, but was ordered not to. Meanwhile, the lead vehicle in the platoon’s second group arrived near Tillman’s position about 65 meters away and mistook the group as enemy. The Afghan stood and fired above the second group at the suspected enemy on the opposite ridge. Although the driver of the second group’s lead vehicle, according to his testimony, recognized Tillman’s group as “friendlies” and tried to signal others in his vehicle not to shoot, they directed fire toward the Afghan and began shooting wildly, without first identifying their target, and also shot at a village on the ridgeline.

The Afghan was killed. According to testimony, Tillman, who along with others on the hill waved his arms and yelled “cease fire,” set off a smoke grenade to identify his group as fellow soldiers. There was a momentary lull in the firing, and he and the soldier next to him, thinking themselves safe, relaxed, stood up and started talking. But the shooting resumed. Tillman was hit in the wrist with shrapnel and in his body armor with numerous bullets.

The soldier next to him testified: “I could hear the pain in his voice as he called out, ‘Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat f—ing Tillman, dammit.” He said this over and over until he stopped,” having been hit by three bullets in the forehead, killing him.

The soldier continued, “I then looked over at my side to see a river of blood coming down from where he was … I saw his head was gone.” Two other Rangers elsewhere on the mountainside were injured by shrapnel.

Kevin was unaware that his brother had been killed until nearly an hour later when he asked if anyone had seen Pat and a fellow soldier told him.

Tillman’s death came at a sensitive time for the Bush administration — just a week before the Army’s abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in Iraq became public and sparked a huge scandal.


And this is my interest. While huge questions do surround the murky details, changing story and five weeks it took to even inform the family of the truth, one thing is certain:

The Pentagon, at a minimum, knew the Abu Ghraib scandal was days away from exposure and Tillman was executed by friendly fire, but waited five weeks after Abu Ghraib, after Nick Berg, and after many, many meetings, scandals and posturing in the press, to quietly inform the family of the truth.

Suspicions I have that are less certain include:

Did the Pentagon (or other rogue operatives) have knowledge of their poster boy's dissatisfaction with Bush's policy in Iraq? He was eventually transferred out to Afghanistan where he intended to go all along. He must have also talked at some point to his "friendlies" about his views on Bush, the war and even the election against John Kerry, who he not only supported but mirrored in views.

And now the trifecta: The Abu Ghraib sandwich.

I have serious unanswered questions about who actually killed Nick Berg just one week after the Abu Ghraib scandal broke. As do many. It can't be denied the first terrorist beheading changed the topic on the news just as good as changing the channel, taking the focus off the Pentagon in the process and an increasingly dissatisfying War on Iraq.

Where does Tillman fit in just one week before? Especially now that we know he did not fit in with the rationale, official story or any of the things being said about him at home as the right wing poster boy for the Iraqi conflict?

[edit on 28-10-2005 by RANT]




posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 07:14 PM
link   
i doubt that the Pentagon would try to get their own men killed purposedly just to shut one soldier's mouth, wen we have tens of thousands of soldiers that can be critical of the President. not to mention the terrorists in Iraq decided to give Nick a hair cut because of the Abu Graib scandals that gave them a good reason to give him the cut. and since then the terrorists have been cutting heads and showing them off their perfection in doin it.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 07:35 PM
link   
It's just a question. But...


Originally posted by deltaboy
i doubt that the Pentagon would try to get their own men killed purposedly just to shut one soldier's mouth, wen we have tens of thousands of soldiers that can be critical of the President. not to mention the terrorists in Iraq decided to give Nick a hair cut because of the Abu Graib scandals that gave them a good reason to give him the cut. and since then the terrorists have been cutting heads and showing them off their perfection in doin it.


Tens of thousands soldiers critical of the President weren't Pat Tillman. They weren't being used as a shorthand response to any "anti-Iraq War" critic sitting across from a Fox News anchor as the definition of patriotism. And Donald Rumsfeld wasn't gluing a picture of the other soldiers in the dictionary beside the word "hero" while they covertly planned meetings with Noam Chomskey. (Really, some similarities to Berg are striking.)

Really try to get your mind around the times. It was still a BIG DEAL there were no WMD's then. And this is a Pentagon that not only knew Abu Ghraib was coming, but many think had a hand in it.

If they're willing to lie the family and the American people for five weeks about the circumstances of Pat Tillman's death while they circle the wagon's for Abu Ghraib, why not?

Because it's wrong? Well... That's the point.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 07:40 PM
link   
Tillman may have been a prolific reader, but that explains nothing. If he was a Chomsky fan, then how do you explain his enlistment to fight in a war that he was so philosophically at odds with? Common sense says that he would have stayed at home and protested the war.

I've read nothing about his displeasure with the administration.

I tend to agree with deltaboy. Tillman should have stayed prone until all was safe. To think that a conspiracy was cooked up for his brothers in arms to murder him is really a stretch and makes no sense at all..



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 07:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by jsobecky
Tillman may have been a prolific reader, but that explains nothing. If he was a Chomsky fan, then how do you explain his enlistment to fight in a war that he was so philosophically at odds with? Common sense says that he would have stayed at home and protested the war.


Pat Tillman was everything he was made out to be, a hero. And like me and many others, he supported the invasion of Afghanistan, the fight against al qaeda and the hunt for Bin Laden. He joined to do just that. Also like me and many others, he thought the war on Iraq was an unnecessary distraction. That came later as you recall.

His exact words on Iraq according to his mother and friends? "[explitive!] illegal."


I've read nothing about his displeasure with the administration.


No we haven't. Not a word anywhere. I'm currently in shock. Really, just give his parent's a chance as they now break their silence and see what develops. These are being reported as very private people, but they want answers desperately.

Skepticism is warranted, but I don't think they deserve the hostility we see directed at Sheehan.

This is truly a fascinating development.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by RANT]



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 07:55 PM
link   
You're going too far with this one, RANT. There is absolutely no justification for your accusations. They are completely irresponsible. This is definitely one situation where your sacastic wit is completely off-base. You need to take a cold shower.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 08:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
You're going too far with this one, RANT. There is absolutely no justification for your accusations. They are completely irresponsible. This is definitely one situation where your sacastic wit is completely off-base. You need to take a cold shower.


I appreciate your perspective, but I'm seriously not being snarky or making any accusations. I'm in shock and I'm asking questions. I'm also taking great pains to pose them carefully. I merely have suspicions. Serious suspicions. That whole time around Abu Ghraib was just off. This is simply another piece to the puzzle I never saw before.

But like I said, skepticism is warranted. I just don't think the Tillman's deserve hostility at this juncture, as much as they do exposure and answers.

It can't be denied there are revelations here we did not know. And the realization that those five weeks of withheld information were among the most pivotal and scandalous over the entire course of the war.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 08:15 PM
link   
Excellent post, RANT. I don't doubt for a moment the possibility of your suspicions. Not saying they're true, but I also await more from the Tillmans to see what comes of this.

I don't put anything past this administration.


Originally posted by jsobecky
If he was a Chomsky fan, then how do you explain his enlistment to fight in a war that he was so philosophically at odds with? Common sense says that he would have stayed at home and protested the war.


It's just not that simple! Do you think that every soldier in Iraq supports Bush and the war there? If you do, you are very much mistaken. There are brave soldiers signing up yet to give the guys over there a break. To serve their country. They don't support the war, they support their friends, their peers, their countrymen.

What gives you the idea that only people who support this war go over there? That's not common sense, that's wishful thinking.

Sometimes people do what they don't want to do because they think it's the right thing!

This story and the responses to it have shades of people on this board knowing Casey Sheehan's mind and heart better than his own mother and she must be lying. And her friends must be lying. Surely we know our Pat better than them!



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 08:44 PM
link   

It can't be denied there are revelations here we did not know. And the realization that those five weeks of withheld information were among the most pivotal and scandalous over the entire course of the war.

The five weeks is not entirely implausible. A high-profile soldier is killed in the stark mountains half a world away. The friendlies that did it are in shock when they realize what has happened. Maybe they cover it up at first. Word gets back to the States where a very proud but saddened military tells the Tillmans that their son died a hero.

The investigation begins - of course there will be an investigation, after all this guy was a pro football player. High profile. Routine, just to dot the i's and cross all the t's.

One of the friendlies can't take the coverup any longer, cracks up and spills the beans. This is now a problem that has to be handled. Five weeks is not unheard of for the cycle to play out.

Possible?

Nobody is skewering the Tillmans, either. But please don't equate Tillmans' mother to Cindy Sheehan. Maybe Mrs. Tillman has a right to be upset that the military apparently used her son for propaganda. Maybe her anger is misplaced, and not all is as it seems to her. But outrage will not bring her son back.

Cindy Sheehan, on the other hand, is a moonbat, IMO. She's blinded by the fact that she's getting all the attention she never got growin up. Half-opened eyes and a close-mouth smile tells me she is living in dreamland.

BH, you really need to stop oversimplifying and putting words into other people's mouths. Staying on topic helps.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 08:44 PM
link   
Sifting through the myriad layers of tales upon tales the brass spun to cover their own tails regarding the true demise of Tillman, the one detail that completely blew me away was even after his paying the ultimate - they then decided to burn this gallant knights armor (uniform) - UNf'nreal!

Some chronology (& mythology) here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 08:49 PM
link   
This is from an older post of mine




FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH
New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillman’s death
- Robert Collier, Chronicle Staff Writer
Sunday, September 25, 2005

Snip~~

The battle between a grieving family and the U.S. military justice system is on display in thousands of pages of documents strewn across Mary Tillman’s dining room table in suburban San Jose.
~~
As she pores through testimony from three previous Army investigations into the killing of her son, former football star Pat Tillman, by his fellow Army Rangers last year in Afghanistan, she hopes that a new inquiry launched in August by the Pentagon’s inspector general finally will answer the family’s questions:
~~
Were witnesses allowed to change their testimony on key details, as alleged by one investigator? Why did internal documents on the case, such as the initial casualty report, include false information? When did top Pentagon officials know that Tillman’s death was caused by friendly fire, and why did they delay for five weeks before informing his family?
Link



ATS

New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillman’s death

WAR: Army Withheld Details About Tillman's Death

WAR: Former NFL Player Pat Tillman Probably Killed by "Friendly Fire"

WAR: Former NFL Player Killed in Afghanistan

WAR: Report: Pat Tillmans Final Minutes a Horror

Anybody still care about Patrick Tillman?



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 08:56 PM
link   
The links are a great addition. I knew we had much on this already, I was just trying to focus on the Tillman, Abu Ghraib, Berg aspect of the timing of all this. Five Weeks of Scandal and Confusion.

And jsobecky...


Originally posted by jsobecky
Possible?


Anything's possible.


That's the scary part.

[edit on 10-10-2005 by RANT]



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 08:56 PM
link   
Im going to have to disagree a bit with your here Rant.

Did the Pentagon have him killed in a deliberate manner? I doubt this highly. There are tons of unanswered question regarding his death that stems from the Army's inept handling of the case. Recall if you will I put up an ATSNN story about a mother who finaly got the truth about how her son died in Iraq after a year.

Now did the Pentagon conceal the truth that its poster boy for patriotisim was killed in a frendly fire incident? This seems more likely as it made for great theatre and a patriotic drum to beat in the media.

Please note, IMHO Pat Tillman was as patriotic and courageous as the founders of this country were and I am not taking anything away from the sacrafice he made for his country



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 09:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by FredT
Im going to have to disagree a bit with your here Rant.

Did the Pentagon have him killed in a deliberate manner? I doubt this highly.


That's not disagreeing with me. That's answering my question with your opinion.


Just for everyone's benefit, there are no irresponsible conspiracy theories, just irresponsible conspiracy theorists. I'd love to see any aspect of this investigation debunked or proven.

Educated opinions welcome too.



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 09:51 PM
link   
I don't think I have ever seen you propose one conspiracy theory on these forums Grady (I'd be happy to read one). Seems all you joined this forum for was to tell everyone you are a marine, support the right wing, and tell those that propose conspiracy theories you don't like to shut up?

And since when did this Tillman theory fall squarely on the back of Rant? I think this is very important, particularly given that this is testimony from his Mother and in light of the recent Cindy Sheehan circus. Seems the right indeed does like to speak on behalf of fallen soldiers they never knew. Would love to see some of the same try and speak for Pat Tillman. Because, we all know you lot know him a hell of a lot better than his own Mom. Right?



[edit on 10-10-2005 by cargo]



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 10:45 PM
link   
I'll play the 'mega conspiracy theory' angle, don't shoot the messenger but open your mind to the possability...

Could the soliders who continued fire even after it was known they were friendlies have been "manchurian candidates"? Is that why the order to stop shooting fell on deaf ears? Is that why following testimony changes and is muddy? Did someone give some programmed soldiers an order they couldn't refuse and the follow-up story has been created to fill in the blanks?

Is this how Nick Burg was killed also? By people that didn't know what they were doing and who have no controll over their actions? Nick Burg didn't look stressed at anypoint in his ordeal, could he have been under control also? Many say it was done at Abu Gharib, there were reports of high level people who don't carry identification coming to Abu Gahrib and doing something in a certain part of the Prison behind closed doors (- have to find more on that but i remember reading about it early on, no one knew who these people were but it was obvious that they outranked anyone that was there and they arrived in big black cars without markings)

I know the movie the manchurian candidate adds a juicy twist of Hollywood fable with secret labs and brain implants (in the remake) but actual drug/hypnosis Mind Control has been a long time in the making and sometimes movies are made to change historical events or to present the idea that if it happens in a movie, it could never be true. (read below quote)
The Nazi's experimented with mind control in WWII, the US army experimented with it throughout the 50's - 70's and today, if such a system existed, could explain a few of the more puzzling deaths which serve a governments purpose and which can be hidden under the guise of war.

Since the war in Iraq began, there's been around 275 reported kidnappings yet only a very few are beheaded or even killed and most of those that are publically killed and advertised come at a very pollitically crucial moment in the war, either to avoid damning headlines or to encourage more foreign support for the war.

Of course people in the army will disagree that this is even a possability but of course, why should they know? Since when does the Military share every top level administration secret across it's entire employee population?

How many manchurian candidates does KBR have in Iraq right now called 'contractors or security'?
Could those two "SAS" who were caught the other week planting bombs have been manchurian candidates also which is why the over the top rescue took place to get them back?



CACI's Private Horror Chambers

The nauseating pictures of torture at the Abu Gharib prison in Iraq are only an opening salvo. A growing presumption is that the few reservists of the 372nd Military Police Company, who have been formally accused to date, are scapegoats for an investigation that should have gone much further, and much, much higher. The soldiers and their Commander, General Janis Karpinski, say they were operating under the orders of Military Intelligence units who had told them to soften up the prisoners for interrogation.

But it turns out it they were receiving orders not just from MI and the CIA but from employees of a private contractor as well, a contractor also directly involved with U.S. intelligence.

counterpunch.org...





Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and the Manchurian Candidate

When you peek beneath the Manchurian Candidate’s fascinating plotline, however, you learn that it is not "just a movie," but is based upon actual cases of government-sponsored brainwashing, torture, Nazi collaboration, bizarre interrogation tactics, biological warfare and cover-ups. And though such an assessment sounds like paranoid lunacy, a quick study of CIA operations like MK-ULTRA (mind control), Operation ARTICHOKE (extreme interrogation) and Operation Paperclip (the Nazis’ role in exporting both), along with their connection to the murder of Dr. Frank Olson, reveals otherwise.

www.buzzflash.com...



We're through the looking glass people!




[edit on 10-10-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]



posted on Oct, 10 2005 @ 11:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by jsobecky
If he was a Chomsky fan, then how do you explain his enlistment to fight in a war that he was so philosophically at odds with? Common sense says that he would have stayed at home and protested the war.


Didn't he enlist after 9/11 to fight the war on terror, presumably at the time that would have been Afghanistan?

sfgate.com.../c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL


Instead of going to Afghanistan, as the brothers expected, their Ranger battalion was sent to participate in the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. The Tillmans saw combat several times on their way to Baghdad. In early 2004, they finally were assigned to Afghanistan.



posted on Oct, 11 2005 @ 08:43 AM
link   

Didn't he enlist after 9/11 to fight the war on terror, presumably at the time that would have been Afghanistan?

Yes he did join for that reason. And after a sidetrack to Iraq, he finally made it to Iraq, where he met his unfortunate death. You are absolutely correct. And it was in Iraq where he made know his very public dissent about the war.

Believe me, I have no issue with his views. He was over there fighting for, among other reasons, our right to speak our minds freely. I salute him for that. And his family has every right to question the timetable of notification; that is a very normal human reaction, and being a parent, I can empathize.

RANT may be onto something with his theory. I hope he is wrong about the deliberate murder of Pat Tillman, though. I hope that what happened was more along the lines of what I posted above. I'm not looking through rose colored glasses; I just can't see Rangers conspiring to kill one of their own.



posted on Oct, 11 2005 @ 11:09 AM
link   
Very public dissent? I wasn't aware. Given that, you'd think that an ex-NFL star who gave up the 3.6 million dollar contract to fight for his country, won the heart of his nation, and had a "very public dissent" towards the War in Iraq would be a prime target to be silenced.

He had a legion of young male fans (PRIME recruitment material) who followed him as an NFL star and saw him give it up to fight for his country. You'd think with his "very public dissent", they might actually listen to him.

Can't have that.



posted on Oct, 11 2005 @ 11:45 AM
link   
If Pat Tillman's death was intentional, there would have be alot of people that know about it. First the soldier that pulled the trigger, I seriously doubt someone came up and said " hey pvt..go shoot tillman". And in most cases whenever someone gets shot in training or by friendly fire, there will be someone that goes down for it, probably the guy that pulled the trigger. If he was given an order to kill Tillman, Im sure he would speak up about it..especially if he got into any serious trouble for doing so. And then you have his boss or maybe a few others that if told to do so would say no and go tell someone.

But ya never know, anything is possible. Maybe they ask some sick psycho soldier that had a grudge against Tillman to pull the trigger. Or payed someone off to keep them quit...telling them it's good for the country or some trash like that, that Tillman was a spy. Someone people will believe anything. Maybe the shooting was staged and prepped up in hopes that Tillman would get shot.

Is it possible that his death was intentional? Yes, but I seriosuly doubt it. Did the Army use Tillmans death as patriotic tool to support the GWOT, I think so, It's also obvious they lied about how he died.


Sporty

EDIT: yeah, what ever happened to the soldier that shot Tillman? I have'nt been keeping track of this as much as some of you. Anyone know? RANT?

[edit on 11/10/2005 by SportyMB]





top topics
 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join