UFO's. Yeah right!

(mod edit for netiquette)

[edit on 10/4/2005 by Amorymeltzer]

Look I have every right to express my opinion here on this thread , and I did that.

Who do you think you are to demand anything from me , after calling me a liar repeatedly!

I believe the Author of this thread ask me about my opinion.

You refuse to believe that anyone ever sees any UFOs , fine but the fact is people do. You seem totally disinterested in facts , so therefore you hold beliefs. The belief that I and millions of people are Liars.

I , and others have offered evidence that supports our opinions , you have not !

You refuse to believe that anyone ever sees any UFOs , fine but the fact is people do. You seem totally disinterested in facts , so therefore you hold beliefs. The belief that I and millions of people are Liars.

, and others have offered evidence that supports our opinions , you have not !

I agree with Lost Shaman. Klev, from your lost post of all caps, all you've been doing is ranting and raving about your own belief, the belief that UFOs are BS. You havent even made any attempt at any intellegent discussion except calling people liars.

FIRST OF ALL I HAVE NO BELIEF. UNLIKE YOU, I LUMP IT INTO THE CATAGORY OF THE UNKNOWN

Is that as far as you are willing to go? What is the unknown to you for UFOs? The logical process here is the classify something as the unknown and investigate further. There is alot of evidence to suggest that UFOs do flourish in our atmosphere(human or non-human). I've just given you a few. The Brazil Air Force releasing classified documents on UFOs is one. And evidence to suggest extraterrestrial abduction, or some form of abduction unknown to us by something or someone, which are implants.

SECOND OF ALL ALLEN HYNEK (WHOEVER HE IS)_HAS NOT PROVEN THAT HE KNOWS MORE ABOUT UFOS THAN ANYONE ELSE. UNLESS HE SHOWS ME VIDEO OF HIM RIDING SHOTGUN IN A UFO, I COULD CARE LESS WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THEM.

"WHOEVER HE IS"? Obviously you havent even bothered to do any research, so I'll help you out.

www.cufos.org...

The Center for UFO Studies was started by Dr. J. Allen Hynek, who was a professor of astronomy at Ohio State University, and later, chairman of the astronomy department at Northwestern University. During the 1950s and 1960s, he served as the astronomical consultant to the United States Air Force's Project Blue Book.

At first, Dr. Hynek was skeptical of the whole UFO business, but after examining hundreds of UFO reports by credible witnesses, he became convinced UFOs were worthy of serious study.

I think this guy would know more about UFOs than you or me considering his background and his approach of UFOs from a scientific standpoint.

SO PLEASE DO NOT PRESENT ANY OF YOUR UFOOLIGIST OR WHATEVER THEY CALL THEMSELVES AS "AUTHORITIES ON THE SUBJECT BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE.

I think if someone who is in charge of official UFO govt. investigations, has some scientific experience in determining what is a ufo and what is not. They have some sort of credibility, as opposed to a person who knows nothing and makes wild guesses.

So the question is...are there hoaxes and frauds in this field? Yes. Many people on this board will agree with you here and many here have done the footwork(research) for you to prove they are frauds. Is everyone a fraud? If you were to make that type of wild claim, then please provide some evidence that works against their claims.

So no need to type in capital letters ranting and raving. There are a lot of logical people here who look at evidence as well. Please dont come in here and say "The entire UFO field and aliens are all full of it." Instead provide links that debunk big cases, or people rather than claiming "Ohh its all hogwash." Its one thing for UFOlogist to present evidence, but its your job to debunk it. So please choose some aspect and start debunking. And if your going to attack the UFO field, please dont attack weak evidence of "people claiming to see UFOs" or alien abductees. Give us more of a stronger rebuttal than that.

[edit on 3-10-2005 by kyateLaBoca]

Let me be the first to call you a moron You must be the dumbest skeptic yet. Saying such statements as " you wasn't there so it did not happen", what a dumb thing to say. What you are implying is that everything that happened while I was not present is not true? So this means that Hitler did not exist, that Kennedy was not assassinated, well according to you this must not be true because I wasn't there. I have no proof. You are just a skeptic that gets his kicks outa pulling on believers chains. You are a charlatan and obviously don't know what you are talking about. Also, you are just another simple-minded ignorant person who actually believes that we are the only intelligent life forms in the entire universe. I would laugh in your face if you were saying such foolishness in public. UFOs are real! Yes! I too have seen them, want proof, well there isn’t any, but you also can't be 100% sure that they are not real either, if not you wouldn't be roaming this website in search of proof. The reason you don't see them is because you have not the luck, you probably have not seen a giant squid either, does this mean that they don't exist? Does this mean that the video captured is hoaxed? No! you're just not at the right place at the right time.
UFOs are real, yes buddy, you can bet on it.


P.S. Just because you haven’t seen one does not mean that they don't exist, or that they are not alien. This here is a problem that you and hundreds like you will have to live with. This problem affects people like you and keep them ignorant until their death.


Do not circumvent the censors.

[edit on 4-10-2005 by sanctum]

Originally posted by Kleversdad
Yeah I have heard those stories too. I also heard about bigfoot even saw a little footage on him, Does that mean it's real. Let me let you in on a little secret. People lie sometimes. How many of those radar sightings have you seen for yourself? How much trace evidence have you seen personally? Like I said before, a lot of people have motives driven by attention and greed. So before you throw out "facts" about planes being scrambled in Belgium, unlesss you were there, don't preach it as gospel. I'm not saying these did not happen and that these people did not see anything. But i'm sure you did not happen to be in these countries in the radio control room scrambling fighter jets to intercept aliens or demons or whatever. At best it was our military using advanced physics in some way the general public is unaware of but doubtful. Please do not present what you have read on the internet as fact unless you were there to see it.

Kleversdad, how much and what type of evidence do you require? Perhaps you would like to put your fingers in the holes of the wrists? These people are correct that there exists substantial evidence of very strange phenomena including airborne vehicles traveling at speeds and performing manuevers which are beyond known capability of man. There are numerous eye witnesses to these events over the last 60 years. Choose to disbelieve them. That's fine. But the fact is that the evidence is sufficient that it would come before a jury in a court of law. It is called direct evidence because there are eye witnesses to the events. People have been hung on circumstantial evidence. I don't think you have any position to criticize others for bringing in phenomena that are largely substantiated, whether you (or I) believe it or not.

(large quote)

[edit on 10/4/2005 by Amorymeltzer]

First of all, you all need to coalm down. Like I said eairlier it would be me the one who would be attacked for coming to dork central and having the nerve to voice my opinion. Lost Shaman you sit there and play like Im the bad one calling you a liar. Well jsut like you stated I am voicing my opinion. I think you are lying. But God forbid I say it or voice how I feel because then you and your idiot followers begin to denounce me as a moron. Listen that FACT of the matter is I can't prove you wrong and you can't prove me wrong. I was simply stating my opinion(that u are lying) and then you guys try to crucify me for it. Please, talk about hypocracy. Hey i have and idea you PROVE me wrong and I will stop voicing my opinion till then, Stop acting like your Allen Hynek, who by the way may be looking at the phenonomon from a scientific standpoint, based on astromony. If I have any questions about planets or stars I'll ask him but if I want to know about ufos I'll ask lost shaman, by the way i'm still waiting for that detailed description on the ufo you saw for 5 minuts at 30 yards.

First of all, you all need to coalm down. Like I said eairlier it would be me the one who would be attacked for coming to dork central and having the nerve to voice my opinion.

People here are debaters and if you want to claim that it is all BS, please provide a link or something that indicates why it is all BS or what certain aspect makes it all BS. Like I said before, you still seem to be picking your shots against people who claim to have had sightings and abduction experiences, which is not the best place to pick your shots becuase that is weaker evidence.

Hey i have and idea you PROVE me wrong and I will stop voicing my opinion till then, Stop acting like your Allen Hynek, who by the way may be looking at the phenonomon from a scientific standpoint, based on astromony.

We just did. Go back and read my posts. I put alot more into them than just about allen hynek. You have completely ignored them. I am still expecting a good rebuttal on your part with links to back it up.

As for allen hynek, there is nothing wrong with looking at UFOs from a scientific standpoint, astronomy uses a lot of physics. He used that to explain UFOs and such. And he was the official guy of the Air Force on UFOs.

If I have any questions about planets or stars I'll ask him but if I want to know about ufos I'll ask lost shaman, by the way i'm still waiting for that detailed description on the ufo you saw for 5 minuts at 30 yards.

Even if he described it to you, it wouldnt convince you becuase he doesnt have video evidence, so why ask at all? As I said before, you pick on the weaker evidence of UFOlogy, eyewitness accounts, and ignore the bigger cases. Thats very typical.

This thread is way off topic.

Not to mention the bickering and 'shouting' at each other.

Post 'on topic' in a civil manner or don't post at all.

If I had evidential proof of my sighting , everyone would have proof and that would be that.

I don't have hard evidence of what I am telling people I witnessed.

I do have some evidence to offer you that shows many other people throughout the last couple of centuries have witnessed and described very similar objects with the same characteristics.

These objects were classified as NOCTURNAL LIGHT - NL by Dr, J. Allen Hynek.
www.ufoevidence.org...

There have been people who have taken pictures of these objects, and Luminous objects have been Scientifically verifed. (See Description 3 , the first picture looks almost exactly like the object I witnessed.)
www.hessdalen.org...


These objects were called " Foo Fighters" by Allied Airmen in WW2, and were observed by both the Allied and Axis forces , and in Korea. en.wikipedia.org...

These objects have been documented by the Brazilian Air Forces "Operation Prato" Aug. - Dec. 1977 Belem. And in 2005 the FAB confirmed the existence of Operation Prato and Brazilian Ufologists were given access to most of the Operation Prato files.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

These objects have been reported extensively in Australia. See AUFORN sighting reports ufoinfo.com...

There is a Data Base of sightings by Police in the U.K. That I was only made aware of last night by another thread here on ATS.
www.prufos.co.uk...

Pilots see and report UFOs.
www.ufoevidence.org...

There are unknown objects seen and videotaped from space. I watched almost all of the live NASA feed this August STS 114 , and there were anomolies in the live feed . I found that this Site accurately captured the anomolies that I watched live. And has in my opinion shown that NASA actively censors anything out of the ordinary from the public. www.projectprove.com...

I can not have made all this stuff up ( This being the Tip of The Iceberg) and I offer it as evidence that when I say I too have been a witness to one of these NL's that I am telling the Honest to God truth about it. There is no reason for me to lie.

If I had done research and found that no one else had reported similar objects to the one I had seen, I would not talk about it period ,because I would have thought that it didn't exist. I found that people have seen and reported these things for decades if not centuries, so I feel that the object that I and two others witnessed was a real object and I feel that people should be aware that these things are not just Fairly Tales.

If you look at the evidence and it does not convince you , that is one thing.

But it is not a Scientific standpoint to refuse to look at evidence and simply declare what you believe to be the truth.




[edit on 5-10-2005 by lost_shaman]

Lost Shaman -- There's a third possibility besides that there's aliens from outer space visiting us. If these creatures are physical then they are limited to the same laws the rest of us are, and they cannot travel fast enough to come for a visit. William Cooper was in Naval Intelligence and has a lot to say about the UFO subject, what's behind it, and what the government is actually doing -- and it's the government itself that's fostering the belief in UFOs, trying to make their own people believe they are "hiding the truth of actual UFO landings to avoid public panic." This is not the case. Illuminati whistleblowers claim there is soon coming a faked alien invasion. It will not be what it seems. Manifested demons are being bred to humans by the mlitary to produce hybrids which will be passed off as "aliens." Demons are as we know fallen angels, and angels according to the Bible are able to appear physically, to eat and drink and spend the night -- as with Sara and Abraham and with Lot and other examples in the Bible. If the good angels can manifest physically, then so can the fallen ones.

Who's behind the UFOs? The Illuminati and the demons/fallen angels they serve.

You may be the victim of mind control. I've posted some sites below with information on this subject.

The Illuminati's goal is to have the entire planet under mind control, and the Illuminati figures they're already behind schedule. They had intended to have obtained total worldwide control by now of the minds of every man, woman and child on the planet. But there's too many people in this country with guns who aren't afraid to use them, and the attempt to bring about nationwide gun control failed and put the Illuminati behind in their plans for the NWO.

The school shooters were victims of mind control. The military's Delta force are mind control slaves. There are 600 sex slaves programmed as the Presidential harem. Billy Graham is Illuminati. The Illuminati has centers all over the country to program chlidren and adults, mostly children. The centers include hospitals, colleges and military bases among others. They don't need to perform their programming in a laboratory setting -- 15 minutes in the back of a van can serve as a gateway experience, and this could be what happened to you. The mind is fractured, and then the separate parts are programmed by hypnosis. You will remember what they WANT you to remember.

Svali interview
educate-yourself.org...

The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave
educate-yourself.org...

Deeper Insights into the Illuminati Formula
www.whale.to...

Monarch Mind Control Programming: What It Is
mindcontrolforums.com...

David Icke:
www.davidicke.com...


[edit on 5-10-2005 by resistance]

[edit on 5-10-2005 by resistance]

O.k. But the Illuminati have not kidnapped me and Brain washed me , and I have never seen any evidence that Reptilians are real or that David Icke isn't just a paranoid delusional.

I have found evidence consistently that UFOs are not always mis-identifications or hoaxes and that evidence is consistent with some UFOs being unknown objects or machines that are not consistent with Human technology.

So when I stop finding evidence that points me in the direction of the ETH , but towards the type of things David Icke is talking about , then I will consider what David Icke is saying until then I will stick with what the evidence suggests.

I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but after having read the entire thing (and the ongoing 'triangular' whine-fest); I decided that my opinion was no more (or less) crazy than any of your's...and, though what I have to say can in no way be 'proven'..it is still entirely correct, accurate and free of contributing psychoses. Believe it, or don't. Until such time that any one reading this is actually paying my bills...I could pretty much care less what you personally believe.

One evening, in 1989, while driving home in the mountains of NC, I spotted an 'odd' airplane off in the distance. One that 'seemed' to be turning its lights on and off, at will; and with lights appearing in rather odd places if it were a plane. It was 10:30pm, 3,000 ft above sea-level, on a perfectly clear evening. This 'plane' was also capable of matching me turn for turn as I progressed up the mountain even though it stayed a distance of at least 3/4's of a mile 'out'. When I finally did lose sight of it because of the trees, drop-offs--I floored my truck so that I could reach a clearing that I knew would afford me the best view. Any reasonable 'plane' would have been visible from there, but this one was nowhere in sight so I stopped my truck in the middle of the road to get out and have a longer look at the unobstructed sky.

I had one foot on the ground outside of my truck before I realized that the nothing but stars I thought I was seeing, WAS being obstructed by something that I could not hear, but was obviously there if the absence of stars in the space it inhabited was any 'logical' explanation. Had 'it' been on the ground it would have been nearly as large as a football field, however; it was roughly 100 ft directly above my head at the time making (virtually) NO noise. I know this because I could clearly hear the engine of my truck and the fact that all the night critter's had also fallen eerily silent, yet this very large object was hovering above me in utter silence, totally black.

I was NOT abducted by gray, green or metallic-hued aliens, our country's armed forces, nor lizards. My truck's radio stayed on the entire time and no huge laser light shot down to illuminate me. Walt Disney, Billy Graham nor any of their secret society minions were anywhere about. Satan, angels (fallen, or otherwise), nor Jiminy Cricket made an appearance.

I stood, half-in/half-out in the frozen seconds it took me to realize that the death grip I had on my steering wheel wasn't likely to amount to a hill of beans if whatever was up there decided different before I got out of my truck entirely; shutting the door (and, its puny light source). I had loads of leisurely seconds to trace the craft's dimensions in respect to the star-filled sky around it before it simply slowly exited my line of sight; stage right and I assure you..it was big, it was silent, it had no reflective surfaces and whatever was navigating it--knew what it was doing.

Now, I have never once suggested that this craft came from another planet, and have always been willing to accept that it is as man-made as you or I are...but a rose by any other name is still a rose. I couldn't identify it and, while I am no 'expert' on aeronautics..I know the difference between weather balloons, a piper cub or a harrier. And, it must be said that this was in an area that was a "known" (and frequent) arena for Ft Bragg to allow their pilots to exercise 'War Games' and 'Night Flights'. However, they were ALWAYS jets, flying very low and accompanied by much, much noise.

This was no jet. It still doesn't mean it was 'otherworldly' either.

And, now my entire point:

There ARE unidentified flying objects. There is no existing religion that doesn't mention such a possibility, if not outright descriptions of airborne craft. They still exist in the heiroglyphics on egyptian pyramids, mayan temples, etc., etc., infinum. It isn't some grand-scale hallucination (although I don't dispute the fact that there are fanatics who would pray to Holy Toast if someone proclaimed it a deity). Why anyone feels personally justified to disprove, or approve the fact is entirely meaningless.
Much like the attempt to 'prove' that the earth was flat. I don't (personally) believe in fallen angels running around masquerading as my local politician to dupe me into voting for his/her diabolical plot to rule the world, either; although I do understand (and acknowledge) that diabolical plots DO exist.

What confounds me is the ability of a great number of human souls to vehemently deny that which they have, themselves; NOT witnessed. Over the years since my experience, I have spent many an hour researching sightings, in general, and have noticed that for every crackpot out there..there is also a believable witness whose experience is related in terms of..let's call it embarrassment. The numbers of witnesses who HAVEN'T told their story would undoubtedly boggle the mind.

The reactions received are the glue that seals the lips. I know this to be true in my personal life and while I cannot 'prove' that..I bet if I sent a poll to the handful of people I've told about my experience (prior to this moment) to..at least half would say, "UFO's? Yeah, right.".

I now secede, while still welcoming any comments.

Gens una sumas

Originally posted by lost_shaman
O.k. But the Illuminati have not kidnapped me and Brain washed me , and I have never seen any evidence that Reptilians are real or that David Icke isn't just a paranoid delusional.

I have found evidence consistently that UFOs are not always mis-identifications or hoaxes and that evidence is consistent with some UFOs being unknown objects or machines that are not consistent with Human technology.

So when I stop finding evidence that points me in the direction of the ETH , but towards the type of things David Icke is talking about , then I will consider what David Icke is saying until then I will stick with what the evidence suggests.

Lost Shaman -- I pray God will show you the truth. If you really want to know, He WILL! I wish you the best.

resistence,

I just have a different understanding of who God is than you do. You believe in an absolute Literal interpretation of the Bible, I do not. This is as far as I will go into a discussion of Religion here , UFOs in my opinion are real and the God I know would populate the whole Universe with life!


Altoona,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Hopefully the day is coming where we can all speak of our experiences without ridicule , but we haven't got there quite yet. But it is worth our time to expose the truth and the world will be better for it.

Altoona -- I believe you. What a frightening experience. I have no doubt that these things are manifesting all over the place, and many people are in fact seeing them. I've seen things myself that are weird and creepy -- not flying saucers. Now that I am an adult and a Christian I understand more what I saw when I was a child.

I have a friend who saw a flying saucer. If a poll were to be taken I'll be there'd be a high percentage of people who have seen them.

All I'm saying is, try to keep an open mind as to what these things are, to remember that demonic beings can TAKE ANY SHAPE THEY DESIRE, including that of a huge spaceship floating around at night, with flashing lights, whatever. And this would explain why they don't leave things behind and why it was so quiet.

The abductions I believe are done in conjunction with mind control scams done by the military to deliberately convince people that actual physical aliens have taken them on to their actual spaceship. I truly do not believe there are any such aliens or spaceships. I do believe the military would like us to think there are because if they can stage a fake "invasion" it will cause people to unite in a world government, which is all the military is ultimately trying to achieve.

When people are tortured and hypnotized, they do not remember what they're told not to remember, and they DO remember what the programmers want them to remember. This is a fact. A person can endure the most savage and unbelievable torture and not remember one bit of it, if so programmed by the persons doing this. I'm just appealing to you to keep an open mind as to the possibilities of explanations to what you saw. I'm not doubting you saw exactly what you describe and I don't think you're deluded or crazy.

Did you have a sense of great evil when you were witnessing this thing?

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I have just finishes a series of documentaries about UFO's and the presidents that dealt with the sibjects. I do not care to talk about all the mystic around who saw what and who believes what. This is such a fantastical subject, such a complete "way-of-life" changing subject, yet it is dealt with like children. I have a few questons I would like the ATS woeld to answer (because I know there are UFO buffs here).

1). Why keep it secret? (Presedents like Reagan had a fantasy that the proof would unite the world)
2). Why do we have absolutely no difinitieve proof? I mean we can catch a murder on tape but no UFO's?
3). What could Elitists or whoever have to benifit from keeping it a secret?
4). If it exists, why wouldn't NASA have a better direction in their space plans?
5). If you beleieve, what do you believe? What makes any sense?

I do not disprove anything, I just can't see any reasons for being fanatical about the subject. UFO's have no purpose, or yet I haven't seen one... Maybe you guys have...

[edit on 2-10-2005 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

I agree with you wholeheartedly! May I add a few questions of my own?

1. How does any Space Craft with the capacity to travel from one star system to our own, manage to crash in the most absurd and remote areas of our globe?

2. How is it that these Aliens manage to showup in people's bedrooms at Two O' Clock in the morning to perform their abductions...but can't show up in front of the White House during Lunch Rush to prove they exist to begin with?

3. Why is it that these Aliens can come to Earth, obviously in a technical fashion which makes them the Envy of the Universe...yet they have to slaughter livestock to run their comparative anatomy experiments?

4. They can get here...yet they can't simply speak English (or it seems any other Earthly tongue) and have to communicate through crop circles?

After Sixty-some years of sitings, they can't even get THAT part right? Perhaps they think we should learn THEIR language first. Okay, why not add Beginning Alien 101 to our college catalogs?

I could add DOZENS of other questions to this list, but let's see what answers ya'll can come up with for these four first, okay?

Just so you all know, this is what can convince me Aliens are visiting us:

I'm asleep in bed, suddenly the missus comes in and rustles me out of my slumber. "Honey, ya gotta come in here and see this." She says anxiously.

In the Living Room, there's ol' Dan Rather, back from "retirement" and anchoring the News Chair...in the morning??

"It seems like hours have passed since this...this...THING appeared in front of the White House...we're still waiting...wait...RIGHT THERE!!

Against the clamor of the gathered crowd, the camera pans back to reveal a huge dark object...opening its hatch...

Take it from there...something like that might AT LEAST get me starting to believe. Anything less...ANYTHING LESS...is just noise.



[edit on 5-10-2005 by Toelint]

[edit on 5-10-2005 by Toelint]

Great post, Toelint.

As the one who started this thread pointed out, President Reagan said it -- Proof of aliens will unite the world.

So who benefits from these phony aliens? The NWO.

That's why I would not be surprised but what one day you just might see old Dan announcing a landing of a spaceship on the lawn of the White House. And strange creatures will emerge. But they will not be true aliens and it won't be a real spaceship. It will be a hoax -- foisted on us by the secret military and the Illuminati and the rest of the Luciferian devotees to world government.




[edit on 6-10-2005 by resistance]

Altoona, thanks for sharing that.

I have no doubt in your sincerity. What amazes me is that people are so skeptical of such events in light of the facts that have been proven in the past few centuries. The size of the known universel the earth is not the center of the universe (you would have been laughed at for that comment not too long ago), nor is it flat. Whether human operated or alien the object/ship was there, correct?

Your experience exceeds mine, which may well be explained by some optical illusion. Anyway, in July 1995 I was at a concert in eastern Washington which ended some 45 minutes before the sun set. As we were departing we noticed an object hovering over the scene (Columbia River Gorge) which was changing colors in a prismatic way. Many colors constantly changing. It was there for ~ 10 minutes while we watched then disappeared. We thought it was very cool but had no idea what it was. It did seem to be an anomoly and yet it had no defined edges or shape. Could have been some weird light effect late in the day. But at the time all I could thing was ET. Who knows? All that matters is that it was a real experience. Like yours.

BTW, sort of on topic, has anyone else had terribly frightening dreams (at least I vaguely remember them as dreams) as a child where the white lights descending from a night sky are searching for you? I used to get those as a kid all the time. Terrifying. The intelligence in the white lights was looking for me and always finding me, no matter where I hid. Just wondering. They would wander searching in the sky and I would become aware of them and become terrified and try desparately to hide. In my dreams they always ultimately found me. When the terror reached its apex as they homed in on me I would know no more. These were not pleasant experiences.

Cheers Altoona!

Originally posted by seattlelaw
Altoona, thanks for sharing that.

I have no doubt in your sincerity. What amazes me is that people are so skeptical of such events in light of the facts that have been proven in the past few centuries. The size of the known universel the earth is not the center of the universe (you would have been laughed at for that comment not too long ago), nor is it flat. Whether human operated or alien the object/ship was there, correct?

Your experience exceeds mine, which may well be explained by some optical illusion. Anyway, in July 1995 I was at a concert in eastern Washington which ended some 45 minutes before the sun set. As we were departing we noticed an object hovering over the scene (Columbia River Gorge) which was changing colors in a prismatic way. Many colors constantly changing. It was there for ~ 10 minutes while we watched then disappeared. We thought it was very cool but had no idea what it was. It did seem to be an anomoly and yet it had no defined edges or shape. Could have been some weird light effect late in the day. But at the time all I could thing was ET. Who knows? All that matters is that it was a real experience. Like yours.

BTW, sort of on topic, has anyone else had terribly frightening dreams (at least I vaguely remember them as dreams) as a child where the white lights descending from a night sky are searching for you? I used to get those as a kid all the time. Terrifying. The intelligence in the white lights was looking for me and always finding me, no matter where I hid. Just wondering. They would wander searching in the sky and I would become aware of them and become terrified and try desparately to hide. In my dreams they always ultimately found me. When the terror reached its apex as they homed in on me I would know no more. These were not pleasant experiences.

Cheers Altoona!

Seattlelaw -- It sounds to me like you may have been a victim of torture and mind control when you were a child. The torture is to split your mind and then the splits are programmed individually. One split takes the memory of the torture and is sent to the bottom of the pile never to surface unless called forth and completely isolated from all the other "splits."

UFOs and mind control experiments go hand and hand.

I wish you well. Remember that Jesus came to bind up the broken hearted, and people who have been subjected to mind-control have had their hearts shattered.

Thanks to all for your comments (and not blasting me into a new time zone for having an opinion!).

No, Resistance, I did not have a sense of great evil, but I did have a pressing desire to get the hell out of Dodge for a second or two!

I wasn't the only witness to what I saw; my daughter and one of my sons (13 & 3 yrs old) had been watching it from her 2nd story bedroom window for some 20 minutes before I arrived home. We were unable to awaken any other household members. It hung around long enough to get a very clear look at it and left with a speed unmatched by anything I have ever seen outside of a Speilberg movie.

I'd have to re-search the internet to provide links of photo's that as closely 'match' what we witnessed, but the Belgium Black Triangle sightings and those over (I believe) Phoenix, AZ some years ago and witnessed by several hundred..are of the same ilk. It never, once "flashed" any lights while in close proximity and the lights visible when it was further away didn't appear to have any real purpose, they certainly weren't constant like those used on planes to warn other's of their presence.

Neither of my children, nor myself were ever bothered with nightmares or strange dreams afterwards. Maybe they might have been had I made a big deal out of it, but we remember it as being an extraordinary sight most never get to see, not unlike witnessing a tornado at a safe distance. Whether it was man-made, or not..

The first Zeppelin may have had the same reaction.

However, what we saw is really beside the point, we could have just as easily proclaimed to have seen the Wicked Witch of the West and it still wouldn't mean that we were 'singled' out in any way. I assure you that the governments of our world have nothing to be gained by brainwashing a NC mother of 4, or 2 of her children. And, with all due respect to anyone who has ever been allegedly abducted... it seems unreasonable to assume that they would have either. I don't pretend to know what the 'reason' is, but I'd tend to believe that a more advanced lifeform could find the cream of our crop in a far more efficient manner. While I think my children are remarkable, I sincerely doubt that any one else finds them so wonderful that they'd send a billion dollar piece of machinery around to have a peek.

That pretty much rules out brainwashing. On the other hand, if one were to be manuevering a new type of aircraft about to 'field' test it, or train pilots... one might decide to check out all the gadgets on the local flora and fauna and certainly the use of night vision technology, or tracking moving heat producers such as I in my truck and my children in their window.. fit that criteria. This makes sense no matter where it came from.

Just seems to me that devils, fallen angels, or mind control experts would have a great deal of other methods at their disposal than this...like landing on the White House lawn during lunch hour. I don't know what it was that we saw, but it wasn't brainwashing me, it wasn't the product of an over-active imagination, and I didn't become religious, lose my religion, or found a new religion afterwards.

We 'discover' new species of plants, animals, insects, etc., on a near daily basis in the Brazilian rain forest (and other places). We 'discover' new planets, new universes, new space anomolies with ever greater frequency.
Scientists the world over are showing a new respect for all life based on the knowledge that it cannot be reproduced without prior 'grand design', or (at the very least) simple purpose which we now know a single cell does NOT have in and of, itself. Why is it so difficult to admit the possibility that there are other planets far more advanced than our young Earth? And, if a God is put into the equation; that this God wouldn't also be capable of creating many other life-sustaining worlds?

I've only been around for marginally less than half a century, but I still have never heard tell of a God that told his followers that they were the ONLY world, the ONLY people, the ONLY only. One need only read Revelations in the King James version of the Bible a single time to realize that either the author was on some incredible drugs, or this world had a whole lot more up her sleeve than we've ever given it credit for. Serves no one any purpose to 'eat their own'.

A million people could answer this post with a million different excuses for what I saw, but until a government provides me of a photo of myself looking up with a very shocked expression on my face, or I see the same, exact thing being reported on CNN as the newest aircraft..I'll have to say that it came from elsewhere and that whatever created me; in all likelihood, also created it and whatever was at the helm.

Happy trails to all. Knowledge is not a disease.