NEWS: Cindy Sheehan Under Arrest

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by xmotex

Well as I said in another thread, perhaps the USA isn't for you.

When you have invested in this country what I have invested, you might be justified in making such statements, but until then, you would do well to heed the counsel of your elders.

Sheehan is exactly what I have described, even if my choice of words offended some. I've been around long enough to know a spade when I see one.

[edit on 2005/9/26 by GradyPhilpott]

Heed the counsel of my elders? I think you have spent too much time "investing". All you have become is a mindless pawn in the right wing movement. I swear, every day the argument from the right gets less and less imaginative. All they know how to do is repeat the "talking points" from their right wing news commentators. They cannot even speak for themselves anymore.

Transubstantiation

Originally posted by loam
While your title "Quite Possibly The Longest Fifteen Minutes In U.S. History" made me laugh, I was sobered very quickly by your litany of unsubstantiated opinions.

My opinions are substantiated by my observations.

People are free to assume otherwise, and falsely assert as much if they choose, but that speaks to their own credibility, not mine.

Cindy Sheehan has pushed her way into the world spotlight, and I have observed her behavior, along with hundreds of millions of my fellow human beings.

She has had more opportunity to make her case in a few months than 99.999% of the people of the world will have in their entire lives.

I find her assertions unconvincing, her behavior revealing, and have shared my opinions of that here, as I am free to do if I wish.

The Nature Of The Business

Originally posted by loam
Prove to me your assertions about her. Otherwise, it is still just your opinion.

I post my opinions to this forum under the same terms and conditions all other members do.

I am comfortable with those terms, and see no reason to respect demands to comply with the arbitrary requirements other members may vainly attempt to impose upon my membership.

Thus I am free to post what I want -- provided I abide by the terms we all agree to honor by being here -- and as long as I do so, what I post is up to me to decide.

If you don't see what I'm seeing in all this, then maybe we're looking at different things, or seeing the same thing differently. That is hardly uncommon, and no reason for alarm.

Believe what you want.

That's your business, and I have no problem with that.

For a country that was founded on a revolution, and protesting against ruling authority, I find it highly amusing when someone degrades and belittles a protester by saying they are a traitor

How many speeches has Bush given praising the parents of dead soliders? I know of at least one where the mother hugged an Iraqi women who recently was able to vote. Yet a mother has no right to demand accountability when she belives her son died based on a lie?

Those soliders over in Iraq and Afganistan are fighting for everyones freedom of speech, and freedom to say what ever they want, even if it is against the goverment leadership

*coughs*

This is The Face of the Anti War Movement

...skipping the first image...





This image is apparently from an Italian website, and the URL clearly identifies it as a protest of a G8 summit presumably in Europe.





This photo is dated Mar. 19, 2005 at 3:40 PM...

See here.

Oh and by the way, I'm not convinced this is in America either...

www.indybay.org..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

Notice a picture taken the same day? Those commercial signs and buildings don't look very American to me.

And, neither do these 'yutes':



My guess in Central or South America?

You were saying?

Which BTW, in addition to the inappropriate first image you posted, these other images would represent the second violation of ATS' T&C you committed by knowingly posting false information.

*throat finally cleared*


[edit on 26-9-2005 by loam]

Originally posted by loam

You were saying?

Which BTW, in addition to the inappropriate first image you posted, these other images would represent the second violation of ATS' T&C you committed by knowingly posting false information.

*throat finally cleared*


[edit on 26-9-2005 by loam]

Perhaps you should continue to clear a bit...there is still some phlegm.

Why did you skip comment on the first image? Was it because that was in fact from the Los Angeles protest, and you had no clever comment to offer?

How were those other images inapropriate when the black block is one of the worlds leading participants in all anti-war marches? If you have ever been to any large protest then you would know that no single issue is at the forefront during these protests. A single reason need only be given for the purpose of the license.

Never did I say that those were from the same protests as the ones Cindy was in. Do not twist my intent, and think that you are in a clever position to berate me with an intention which you yourself invented. Perhaps next time you could try asking what the intent was? As they say, to assume, is to make an ass of "u" and me.

The point, if you must know was to try to show the difference between sincere Direct Action, and media staged DA. I think the two speak for themselves.

Thank you for assuming the role of mod though, not enough people do that around here as it is, I am sure your efforts are well noted.

[edit on 26-9-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Although I don't completely agree with Grady's choice of words, he does raise a very good point. To be honest I think she is media whoring.

Personally I don't think she should be using her son as an excuse. To be honest, I haven't even heard her son's name mentioned since a certain op/ed piece here on ATS. If thats not media whoring I don't know what is. The way she protests, it's beyond grieving, it's just using it to her agenda.

Since when did she have the right to speak for a man who died voluntarily? Don't get me wrong, I don't support the war either but when you enlist (voluntarily) you go in knowing that # happens. If you didn't know that controversial stuff happens, then I don't know what you're doing out of high school.

Simply put, she has no right to speak for a dead man who enlisted knowing full well that he might die. It's one thing to grieve, but she's had her meeting with the President and needs to stop media whoring. But I suppose that as the other teenagers would probably say "She's got street cred now".

phoenixhasrisin

Nonetheless, this is a thread concerning Cindy Sheehan, and you did by way of implication suggest a connection, or perhaps I was confused by the less than coherent argument being made.

Concerning assumptions, I don't recall personally being "think that you are in a clever position to berate the one which you yourself invented." I'm not even sure what that means.

The point, if you must know was to try to show the difference between sincere Direct Action, and media staged DA. I think the two speak for themselves.

So you support the window bashing? ***pssst*** that does happen to be a pretty serious criminal offense... Oh, but that is your point, isn't it? You encourage that...

Thank you for assuming the role of mod though, not enough people do that around here as it is, I am sure your efforts are well noted.

I'll 'assume' sarcasm....but in any event, I was glad to have been of service...


[edit on 26-9-2005 by loam]

When you have invested in this country what I have invested, you might be justified in making such statements, but until then, you would do well to heed the counsel of your elders.

You have no idea how much I have invested in this country, or for that matter how old I am (hint: I'm no kid). And I can make any statement I wish, that's one of the freedoms we have here. You know, freedom, that thing we constantly claim we're fighting for?

You are calling for the execution of an American citizen for simply excercising their right to free speech, how do you expect people to react to something like that? It is one of the most profoundy un-American sentiments I have seen on this board to date. You can wrap yourself in the flag all you like, but if you call for the elimination of the freedoms this country is supposed to stand for, it doesn't mean a damn thing.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

I never knew sitting on a sidewalk was something people get arrested for.

Obstructing a sidewalk is an offense in most jurisdictions. It is, however, often used to arrests such nuisances as prostitutes and protesters. In this case, Sheehan fits both descriptions.

That's laughable...

I mean really, you want the Police to arrest people for sitting on a sidewalk?

Best start rounding up the school kids today and shipping them off after all, they spend many hours playing on roads and sitting on paths. Not harming anyone but you know...might be a terrorist...

1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money
2 : to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes

She ain't much of a prostitute to be honest unless of course we decide what an 'unworthy purpose' is? So then can I have all religious people, shoppers, want-to-be-gangsta's and just about anyone else locked up for the unworthy purpose of being in my way?

I like this America...

She wasn't arrested for "sitting on a sidewalk" she was arrested for protesting without a permit. Can you imagine what would happen if thousands of people started sititing down around the White House in a protest? It would start infringing on the rights of others, that's what! Everyone is talking about her right to protest, but what about the rights of the tourists who came and want to walk up and see the White House without being harrassed by Cindy and her cohorts?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
She wasn't arrested for "sitting on a sidewalk" she was arrested for protesting without a permit. Can you imagine what would happen if thousands of people started sititing down around the White House in a protest? It would start infringing on the rights of others, that's what! Everyone is talking about her right to protest, but what about the rights of the tourists who came and want to walk up and see the White House without being harrassed by Cindy and her cohorts?

I hope this is a joke?

I am sure you can come up with a much better arguement than that?

What about those people who wanted their tea during the Boston Tea Incident? How day they, that was good tea that was ordered...damn protestors...damn liberal scum the lot of them. :-)

Well I think it is wonderful.

i woke up this morning and started reading the four pages of replies in this thread and was simply amazed. The debate is what is important. I found myself agreeing and disagreeing to points made from both sides of this issue.

That is the one thing that Cindy has done, sparked debate. Until she came along there was not much debate coming from either side and now there is.

Some points from Grady rang true - She does appear to be using the platfrom to forward her own agenda, whatever that may be. it does appear as if she is media whoring and enjoying it as seen in the arrest photos.

But whover the face of the anti war movement is, is going to cop flak from all sides and have every single part of their lives picked to pieces. Whoever they are, they will be accused of being a traitor.

What i like about Cindy....well not much personally, she is not the person I would invite to dinner for a good debate....but I do have respect for what she has achieved and that is OPEN DEBATE on a subject that is a sore point on both sides, a political minefield.

I have to think about how I would feel and what I would do in that situation, hopefully my children would not go to war and volunteer. I am sorry but it's a selfish mother thing, I do not want my child in a body bag. I buried my sister when she was 25. It was the pits, the worse thing I have ever had to live through. It would certainly destroy me and change things if I had to bury my child.

At the same time I would have to respect my childs choice if they did want to go. I only hope education helps and showing them that war is not the answer to the worlds woes.

I speak my mind now, I speak for what i believe in and pride myself in awareness but this thread has bought new awareness of both sides of a coin.
If the issue was that important to me I would have been marching washington long before my child was in that bodybag.

What about those people who wanted their tea during the Boston Tea Incident? How day they, that was good tea that was ordered...damn protestors...damn liberal scum the lot of them. :-)

Or during the civil rights rallies....

"Damn these protesters, I need to go to the whites only bathroom and they're in my way!"



[edit on 26-9-2005 by loam]

Originally posted by loam
phoenixhasrisin

Nonetheless, this is a thread concerning Cindy Sheehan, and you did by way of implication suggest a connection, or perhaps I was confused by the less than coherent argument being made.

Do not confuse implication with assumption, which appears to be exactly what you are doing right now.

Concerning assumptions, I don't recall personally being "think that you are in a clever position to berate the one which you yourself invented." I'm not even sure what that means.

Ahh yes, the ever familiar typo, and grammar defense. When all else fails, and caught in your own filth, it was the writing right? If you must know, I went back and tried to clarify myself. To tell the truth though, I really do not think that that was one of my original typos.

So you support the window bashing? ***pssst*** that does happen to be pretty serious criminal offense. Oh, but that is your point, isn't it?

If you think breaking a window is a "serious criminal offense" then I cordially invite you to come out to California, so as to familiarize yourself with what exactly constitutes a "serious criminal offense".

That is partially my point though. Those serious about change will take action not contact the local press. Those serious about change hide their faces because they know what they do might be illegal. They do not, call the press and give a big ol grin though, that is one thing that they do not do. As a matter of fact, most from the black block will smash your camera if caught taking a picture, my wife included!

But in any event, I'm glad to have been of service...

What service have you offered when you feel the need to point out ATS conditions as if you were a Mod, then intentionally twist my intent, and proceed to argue against me as if you had any validity to begin with? Perhaps I missed something...

[edit on 26-9-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by loam
Or during the civil rights rallies....

"Damn these protestors, I need to go to the whites only bathroom and they are in the way!"

LMAO

"Do you mind holding that battle somewhere else, I know you want the town but we wanted a picnic on this field today...or maybe you could do it another day?"

Imagine that in the civil war?

or;

"Stop digging up my garden to build a trench."

During World War 1...

[edit on 26/9/2005 by Odium]

Your satirical humor is funny and all, but can you imagine the piles of people that would plop down in front of the whitehouse everytime they had a grievance with the government if such laws were not in place?

All she had to do was get a new permit, and she could have had her little party.. instead, she intentionally got herself thrown in jail. Shes not a victim here.. she's been protesting for months now, and the people coaching her know the rules inside and out. She did this stunt on purpose knowing she'd be dragged through the media.. again

Poke fun at the laws all you want.. they're there for a reason.

the people coaching her know the rules inside and out. She did this stunt on purpose knowing she'd be dragged through the media.. again

Which makes her arrest all the more sophomoric...no arrest = no news.

[edit on 26-9-2005 by loam]

phoenixhasrisin

Perhaps I missed something...

You did.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Sheehan has gone far beyond the "opposing view" stage and has become an agent of the enemy.

Oh geeeeezzzzz.....

Grady... time for some more of the green pills man. I have also voted TWATS for you before... and i can sense you are hitting a higher blood pressure mark...

so now you are accusing her of joining AQ... paranoia check grady...
she bears no arms, she doesn't give away positions, she doesn't donate to AQ, so how is she "an enemy agent"?

come on man, don't be daft....
is she an enemy agent becuase she disagrees with the war?

get out of my country you damn commie!
people have a right to disagree.... especially with a contrived war, that we are being lied to about.

IMO that she got exactly what she wanted, so hopefully the martyr effect wont work... but she does have a right to be a protester, and she does have the right to disagree with a war, that took her sons life...

And don't forget people... yes, military service is still voluntary, but when you sign up, it isn't to fight in a war over oil, or a companies desire for more contracts... it was for the very honorable reason of DEFENDING OUR COUNTRY...
and as far as I am concerned... our military has been hijacked by the corporations to fight for money, not security...

Originally posted by loam
phoenixhasrisin

Perhaps I missed something...

You did.

Perhaps I should point out the ATS terms and conditions concerning one line responses? I mean , since we feel the need to act like mods right?

I will not do that though as I am not a mod, and I am more interested in hearing what exactly your point was. I was polite enough to clarify myself when you were seemingly baffled, so can you please kindly return the favor?

Or would that not be clever enough?