Rebuttal to "I just got back from a FEMA Detainment Camp

If I may break down the report that was posted about our facility as Falls Creek in Oklahoma.

Page 1 stated: I packed up two car loads of us and headed over to Falls Creek. In the Emergency Management Community we have asked the population over and over not to "self deploy" and the following reason are given for such request.

Prior to Jesse Jackson making his comments our Governor and the State Officer of Emergency Management asked all Oklahomans to please refrain from using words such as refugees and displaced people. We were asked to use the wording "Oklahoma Guest". This went out on the media here in Oklahoma and in print.

The author of this report continues to use the term refugee throughout the paper.

One of the primary reasons for using Falls Creek was the picturesque area and having the ability by faith-based groups to allow these folks the ability to put their lives back to normal, as much as possible, without having the press and lot’s of concerned citizens hound them for interviews and “how was it”.

We knew from the start that we needed additional security at the site so Oklahoma Highway Patrol officers were assigned in double shifts to protect those “guest” from the media and other “well concerned citizens”.

She states her daughter “turned and snapped a picture of his vehicle (Page 5)—very conspicuously”. There was no reason for some James Bond type of picture taking OHP officers are very friendly and will allow their photo’s and that of their cruisers to be taken.

The reason (page 7) for not allowing clothes was the fact we need to ensure they are clean and in good order. We have over the years at disasters received soiled and dirty diapers, ripped clothes and other related items by well meaning citizens. We now have retired ladies who help us select clothes that can be used by these folks. I have photos’ of thousands of clothes at Fall Creek that were standing by ready to be delivered to these folks.

(Page 8) The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. That is true once they were placed on the busses we had no way to determine their medical status. They have been exposed to several elements and prior to allowing them off camp we wanted to have them checked out by the Doctors and Nurses we had lined up at Falls Creek (Page 15 the people in the blue jump suits). We also had 22 ambulances standing by for medical emergencies. We had a similar camp in Northern Oklahoma and had 4 medical emergencies the night these good folks arrived and they needed immediate transport to a local hospital. Many of these US Citizens arrived with pre-existing medical conditions.

The reason your “pop-tarts” were accepted is they are sealed in an enclosed package and are “tamper proof”. We are trying to protect our Louisiana friends from the criminal element and bad people that might want harm done to them. This is the reason Apples and Oranges were not allowed. I wonder if this lady allowed her children to go around on Thanksgiving and accept open candy from strangers.

Oklahoma never had the intention of accepting 5,000 guests (page 9) as she stated. Our cap and the cap that our governor worked out was 3,000 at falls creek. This is the maximum number of meals, toys, clothes and other related things that needed to be in place prior to our guest arriving.

The Cell phones were put in place by our Office of Emergency Management due to a request of our emergency workers since cell phone coverage is so poor. Cingular and others donated the towers and equipment including the coverage. We also place these cell towers at Falls Creek so once the people were on their feet they could start calling loved ones throughout the country and inform them they were OK.

The toys she refers to must first be checked. We have had “Christian groups” donate toys such as swords, toy guns and other devices that usually mean harm donated to our causes over the years so we check them closely before allowing any kids to play with them.

The meals were going to be provided by the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army. We at the Health Department were requiring that they eat hot food with plenty of vegetables not the “junk food” that this lady stated she was brining. Snacks were to be laid out during the day and night for their use, but meals which included the basic food groups were required 3 times a day.

Mod Edit: Removed phone number

Ed Kostiuk
Oklahoma State Dept of Health
Emergency Management


[edit on 12-9-2005 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

So are you saying your "guests" will be able to leave after they have been checked by your Medical Doctors, or will they still be required to remain inside your Facility?

One more question if I may, did you take it upon yourself to sign up here and write out this rebutal, or have you been asked to do it by your superiors?

WEll, thank you very mush for the official government response to Valhalls's article. I have no doubt that you see nothing at all suspicious of any actions or SOP's. I guess, for a government official, "security" (more like a detention camp), is necessary whenever there are more than, say, 10 citizens in one group?
Right speak, "Oklahoma Guest"; I don't like it at all, Winston Smith. You see, if Val and her husband were to come and visit me in Alabama, they'd be "Oklahoma guests" as they would be guests and they'd be from Oklahoma. The governmental grasp of the language isn't really the point, what is the interesting point is the control of the citizen's language.
Ed, are you saying it isn't Chrsitianly for children to play with toys like play guns and play swords? Interesting. Oh, that's right, the children should be social reengineered to be unisex, right? The boys should be just as afraid of weapons as they are attracted to ear rings, right?

You know, Winston Smith, I think you'd have done much better by not responding to Val's article. Your freaky way of trying to put a spin on the story makes me want to go out and by more ammo. Still you're here, you've posted and I hope you continue to post. You can tell us what we all can do with our children, our spare time and our vocabulary.

Don't worry, everyone; Ed's from the government and he's here to help!

I don't know about taking pictures but I can tell you about how "Friendly" they are. I was driving through Oklahoma and was pulled over by these "Friendly" OHP officers and was handcuffed. slammed over the hood of my car with a gun pointed at me. Then taken to a jail where I was stripped searched and my car impounded and stripped apart looking for drugs ( I assume)

I had to get my car hauled from there impound because of damage done during the search it never ran right again.

My crime?

My drivers license had expired a few days earlier.

Yep they are a right friendly bunch

I'm sure all onlooking concerned citizens (and international netizens) just want to understand what's happening, as did Valhall as she related quite modestly her first hand account to friends here. She had no idea it would be picked up beyond our community and communicated so effectively.

Perhaps if there was indeed some failure of communication at the onset of these charitable souls innocent interface with your personnel, your contribution today has served to clarify in some part. Which is much appreciated.

I'm sure effective communication is one of the most difficult responsibilities for officials during this highly emotional emergency situation.

Perhaps this now rather publicly documented "official response" serves to further prove the point, that (as with many things in emergency preparedness) merely defensive reaction a day late and a dollar short just doesn't cut it and looks exactly like what it is.

Dear Mr. Kostiuk,

First and foremost, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS INFORMATION. I am glad to finally have some one in authority speak to the issues and concerns I raised in my thread.

There are several explanations you have provided that make me feel much better. For instance, I had wondered ( and I believe certain members had even asked) if the occupants of the camp would be allowed to use the cell phones the "hosts" were provided with. I'm glad to hear that is, in fact, the case.

You state:



I did not personally bring any toys, the pictures were of buckets made up in the female cabin. They were made up by the members of that church. I must say up until this paragraph here I thought you were trying to set some things straight, but I can't help but notice that from about this point on you're really just trying to deflect, aren't you? These "Christian groups" that were spending their money and time, and gathering up all their dirty clothes and contaminated food and dangerous toys - you pretty much have about as much of a sucky outlook on them as was voiced about the people coming this way.

I do not need a government worker to inform me of what "Oklahoma's intent" is in this matter. I know what Oklahoma's intent is. It is the intent displayed by the outpouring of volunteers and donations to this camp to make it feel as much like a HOME as possible while we have these guests.

It is not OKLAHOMA'S intent I am confused about...I assure you of that. It was the discrepancy between what I saw and was told in comparison to what the citizens of Oklahoma intended.

Thanks for responding.

As I see it you have not given even one cogent argument for non-self-deployment.



This has nothing whatsoever to do with the reasons for non-self-deployment



This is pure hokum in my opinion. It amounts to an attempt to control the press, and it disturbs me that you seem to think this is normal. Also faith-based, but not secular groups are what is acceptable? Yikes, as an agnostic that would make me really uncomfortable!!



I frankly am suspicious of this statement but perhaps you really do mean well. I wonder why you used quotes around "guest" and "concerned citizen"? Odd. Why can they not decide whether or not to grant interviews? Have you suspened the constitution?



So what? Again this has zero to do with non-self-deployment.



Reasonable: why could you not accept them and have the "retired ladies" sort them???



So you need to quarantine them for five months??. This is not logical.



I find it somewhat disturbing that a public health official would not know that the Halloween (I assume you meant Halloween unless they trick-or-treat on Thanksgiving in OK) candy from depraved stangers idea is an urban myth.

Claim: Madmen have randomly distributed poisoned goodies to the little tykes who come calling on Halloween.

Status: Undetermined.

Were it not for a 1982 incident in Somerdale, N.J., the status line above would read "False," not "Undetermined." Fifteen children and one adult became ill after eating candy and cakes supplied at a school Halloween party there; what I don't yet know is what was in the candy or how it got there. The few newspaper articles I've so far located are confusing and contradictory: one says tests on the candy revealed the presence of "Angel Dust" (PCP); another states tests for drugs were negative.

At this point, I don't know if it was a case of deliberate tampering or random food poisoning. Even if it was a case of deliberate tampering, the target may have been a particular child rather than random victims.

Though I've downgraded this legend's status to "Undetermined" in light of this one incident, I ask readers to keep an open mind until more information is available. Every other incident which at first appeared to be a random Halloween poisoning turned out to be an act targeted at one particular child, an accidental poisoning, or a death caused by something other than poison.

Ed's IP resolves to an Oklahoma State Gov. server...

Springer...

And why wouldn't the term "refugee" be used? that is what these people are, or do you think them as something else like "the needy" , "the unfortunate"?. yes they are all of these, but they are also refugees.

Check out the definition of Refugees They quote the below information.



Maybe Valhall hit a nerve with you guys who are employed by the Oklahoma State Dept of Health
Emergency Management?

Images were shown on what was seen. Nothing more. It obviously made you guys who are running things think again. I have to wonder why that was? Valhall only wrote and portrayed what was seen at the time. The pictures do not lie. The quotes were what was described at the time. You, nor I was there, so how can we deem them right or wrong? We cant.

But starting a rebuttal against that thread, has shown how much this hit a nerve with you guys co-ordinating things.

You as a member of Oklahoma State Dept of Health Emergency Management can only counter them with answers of your own, that people in your position would obviously use as damage limitation.

That ed's as in edkostiuk, and not ed's as in BikerEddie..

What were they again?

The only reasons you give are bad nomenclature, the need for "security", and to "protect" them from.... what? Getting sick? (Has anybody sneezed in your vicinity today?)



So? Call them what you will they are still seeking refuge from a storm.



Which "faith based" people?

The concerned citizens "hounding" them... like Valhall?

Or just the "credentialed" people?

The problem I have with this whole situation is it looks like these people who had just lost everything and are probably under psychological shock were going to be bussed into an isolated camp and greeted with military and police force rather than the open arms of a friendly community welcoming them.

The US is very good at the military thing, a little too good. Seems to me the only way the government can respond to anything is with a military mindset.

That’s what’s so damn scary, and I’m not even American.
.

Sure Ed is a real dude.

OKEM-owner@yahoogroups.com

Google Ed Kostiuk Oklahoma Emergency

I've changed my mind... I'm not getting involved..

[edit on 11-9-2005 by AgentSmith]

TC & Amuk
You guys crack me up.

Welcome to ATS Ed.



Is this you?

(Above from: www.floridatoday.com... )

You were also a bioterrorism management official, no? Still are perhaps?

So that begs the question, why haven't the disease research facilities in NO been in the news? Do the biohazard research facilities in NO pose a danger to the people in the city? Have the post-flood refugees been contaminated with something you're not telling us about?

When FEMA runs their scenarios for NO, do they take into account the presence of the bioterror research facilities? Do y'all factor that into the simulations?

Seems to me that you should be more worried about floodwaters contaminated with plague and anthrax, rather than razorblades concealed in apples (such an urban myth) donated by Okies for the benefit of refugees.



Ugh. So people are being instructed not to take responsibility for their fellow citizens, despite the fact that the refugees have complained vociferously about a lack of basic necessities.

I think FEMA telling people to stop being charitable is a big mistake, the sort practically guaranteed to boomerang around and bite your organization in the ass.

Telling people not to self-deploy is a very, very big mistake. Americans NEED to take more responsibility for their lives and their decisions. If people want to help, let them. It's not just helping the refugees yaknow, it's helping the helpers immensely.

This is just the sort of proclamation that makes people resentful of the government.



Well, I'm a writer, and I think I'll use the term that fits best. Similarly, I defend Val's use of whatever term she desires. Jesse Jackson and OK FEMA can use whatever term they like best, but when you start telling people how to speak, you cross a very real border.



So this was done for their own good? Did they request this sort of location? Have the refugees themselves got anything to say about this state of affairs? I think they do, and it aint "I wanna be up the woods, removed from civilization and hundreds of miles from the home I left behind."

Nope. Not by a long shot. I would wager green money that the refugees want to be as close to their homes as possible, not stuck up in a cabin in the mountains. While this life would suit me quite nicely, it makes most people crazy.



Wow. You totally just went there. You brought in the Okie highway patrol to protect the New Orleans refugees from well meaning Okie citizens? Is logic dead, did I miss the funeral?

Is this what FEMA does now? Y'all have turned your attention away from mitigating disasters and towards protecting citizens from the kindness of their fellows?

How freakin' bizarre...



James Bond would have taken the picture INconspicuously. I think you got your concepts confused. There was no subterfuge involved here.



This makes total sense to me, as far as screening the clothes before giving them to the regufees. This fact should have no bearing on your ability to take the donations offered.

It's downright rude to refuse a gift yaknow.



So they're in voluntary medical quarantine? If they stick around they get food, shelter, medical attention, clothing, and a little bit of cash, if they leave they can't return?

Why is that, liability issues or something more sinister? I'm really curious about that bit.



What are we, 6 years old? Jesus christ. Is Al-Qaeda targetting the refugees with cyanide-dipped candy corn?

"Why did the bad man fly the plane into the building?"
"He hated freedom Billy. He hated freedom."

Do you honestly buy this explanation, or are you just paid to parrot it?



I certainly freakin' hope so. Prove to me that haloween fruit has ever killed anyone, and I'll shut up and go away. Thing is, it hasn't, ever (to my knowledge). The whole cautionary tale is bogus, completely unfounded, paranoid to the nth degree, a big fat stinking urban myth.

But "BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID..OF EVERYTHING!" Right?



I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Is FEMA going to take over parenting responsibilities as well? This should be interesting...



So now FEMA is speaking for the refugees under its control when it comes to minor things like diet choices?

I think, no, I KNOW, the refugees are going to have a problem with that fact.



I have a question. What on earth gave you the bright idea to post your telephone number? You realize just how many people might be calling you as a result, don't you?

Oh, man. I'm a fortune teller, a visionary. I see..I see..your future! You're changing something..changing..changing..CHANGING YOUR NUMBER!

That'll just be $29.95 please.

[edit on 12-9-2005 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

I have to say I am impress that such a member of the "Government" is paying attention to our site.

I will have to remind the "Government official" that this site is after all a "Conspiracy site"

Val's accounts of her first encounter in Oklahoma are backed up by her pictures and other members of her party.

Just like anybody else we perceive what we see in different ways.

Is nice to have "Government Officials" clarifying some of her concerns of what she personally witnessed and heard.

Perhaps "Government officials" need to prepare their "Officials" to ensure that concern citizens Like Val asking questions get satisfy answers.

I still think Val's accounts are trustworthy and sincere.

If this guy was paying as much attention as he says he is, then he wouldnt have started another thread with exactly the same title as this one

Anyway he posted this.

I'm quoting Ed from his other thread:



Thank you for clearing up the traffic we were hearing. That makes sense.

Concerning your mass email to the city population of Davis - I'm offended you didn't include me, after all I lived there for 8 years. Maybe you could place me on your distribution list for further mailings.

I don't recall saying one single negative thing about Davis. It's a wonderful wonderful little town. I consider it my home. A New Orleans resident would probably call it "quaint".

C'mon, he's new to the site and just hasn't figured out the buttons yet.

Ed, hit "Post Reply" in this thread to add to it.

It wasn't his fault, the "new thread" button is situated too close to the "post reply" button, I have never understood why. Regardless of the fact Ed is an Government official, he's a new member here so we should not jump on him and get all stupid about things when he makes a simple error.

Is it not possible for a Mod to consolidate the two threads together?