Again, AgentSmith, you are dead-on. (Referring to post id: 1700257)

I keep reading Ed's posts in several places on the net. He strikes me as 'one of the good guys'.

[edit on 11-9-2005 by loam]

It's rare to meet a vintage marine who isn't a stand-up guy.

There are still questions that need to be answered however, and I'm not seeing any answers forthcoming.

What about the bioterror angle? Not so much as a whisper from officials.

What's going one, besides damage control I mean...

Originally posted by AgentSmith
I've decided to post the post I deleted earlier anyway, and added a bit:

I imagine that clothes and toys are not sorted on site and the staff used are not based there.

This is incorrect. They were sorting clothes at the amphitheater. We saw them. That's where the pics of the clothing were taken. That's where it was stated they had "30" people sorting for days.

The idea behind the location makes perfect sense,

On this we will just have to agree to disagree. An hour to 2 hours from any legitimate job market, housing market, etc., isn't a good idea for people who have lost their homes and their jobs. BUT, if it is intended as a "processing" center (i.e. they only stay there for 2 or 3 weeks) I would agree.

All I'm going to say is that there seem to be some glaring contradictions between what Val was told "on-site" and what is being said by Ed. They don't need to be pointed out.

It's entirely possible that the "hosts" were taken off-guard and didn't know how to respond to to a surprise visit of locals, and I guess this wasn't covered in orientation. Wonder if the "hosts" that were unfortunate enough to have run into her had to be detained for re-programing.

Originally posted by AgentSmith

[Snipped for bandwidth concerns.]

I feel strongly your wording is one of 'acceptance' of government edicts. i don't believe people's rights have been protected and i don't believe what was ordered was for the 'good of the peopele' (my quotes).

it appears to be a soothing post, you made. a post to suggest questions shouldn't be asked.

it seems as though whatever was going to happen at Falls Creek has been averted solely due to Valhall's original post concerning this matter. but i ask: how many other 'camps' haven't been 'de-activated'? camps which haven't made it into the spotlight?

i'm not assured the initial poster of this thread has the public's best interests at heart and fear it is spin.

the public should always be watchful and frequently question anything presented as something for the greater good.

all the above is my opinion only.

If everyone told an identical story glazy eyed, especially in panic conditions like this, then that would seem suspicious.
When people arn't sure they tend to fill in the gaps as best as possible, it's human nature. Not everyone there is going to know what's going on properly and some people will have power trips so they may give off some authoritarian vibe that is miss-placed and some people may mean well but not really grasp the scale of the situation and the possible outcomes that have to be planned for.

It's like my comment on the clothes, I didn't remember reading Val's comments on them being sorted at the place so I explained it as best as I could with the information in my tiny mind. I diefinately didn't mean any harm through it, I was just mis-informed (or not so in this case) so I speculated.
So do they and that's just it, it's like the experiment where they get a bunch of people, show them a controlled situation and then ask them to all independantly give their version of events.

The diversity of the answers is usually staggering and the amount of information that is added is astounding. It's a subconcious thing, no malicious intent, purely the wonder of the human mind at work.
While that does not answer all the discrepancies, it is something that has to be thought about when analysing the information.
This can apply to all wokrs of life, including many conspiracies.

Otherwise what else is there to look forward to than the idea of embracing a computerised future where machines make all the serious decisions because the human mind is too random, unpredictable and unreliable.

Everyone at every level messes up to an extent, no-one's perfect.. Not even the best of the best of the best... with honours...!

The only time no-one messes up is in a Movie or on a TV Show, because they cut out all the mistakes.






[edit on 11-9-2005 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by Floh

it seems as though whatever was going to happen at Falls Creek has been averted solely due to Valhall's original post concerning this matter.

I don't think this. I think Governor Henry put the brakes on when Arkansas got far more refugees than they had been told they would, or for whom they had prepared.

i'm not assured the initial poster of this thread has the public's best interests at heart and fear it is spin.

If Ed wrote the message that loam shared with us in this thread. I do.

all the above is my opinion only.

Same here.

[edit on 9-11-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Floh

Originally posted by AgentSmith

[Snipped for bandwidth concerns.]

I feel strongly your wording is one of 'acceptance' of government edicts. i don't believe people's rights have been protected and i don't believe what was ordered was for the 'good of the peopele' (my quotes).

it appears to be a soothing post, you made. a post to suggest questions shouldn't be asked.

In a way yes, I know no one will ever do that though or I wouldn't say it. When people are leaning to one extreme I try and pull them to the other in the hope that they may come to rest somewhere in the more accurate middle. Also there are some things that people just have to accept, they are happy to accept the alternative ideas, so why not accept some of the official ones?
When you get to the stage that you think 'Everything the government says is bad no matter what it is', you really need time out.

it seems as though whatever was going to happen at Falls Creek has been averted solely due to Valhall's original post concerning this matter. but i ask: how many other 'camps' haven't been 'de-activated'? camps which haven't made it into the spotlight?

Who knows? BE careful not to turn specualtion into alleged fact however. Assumptions are dangerous and even though it is a possibility it is not necessarily likely.
It may be that there is now so much attention to this area, they have a very real concern for the well-being of the people and don't want a situation to start that could get out of hand.
Imagine it now, well meaning citizens, the media in force all bearing down to try and help and inform the world. Geez if I was one of the people that was being moved there and that happend I'd kill myself.

i'm not assured the initial poster of this thread has the public's best interests at heart and fear it is spin.

A quick search of Google and reading some of his unrelated posts on other forums within his community, and also reading some of the articles on the guy will tell you otherwise.

the public should always be watchful and frequently question anything presented as something for the greater good.

True, but not to the extent of insulting someone who has found time to try and put forward their side of the argument using the best of their knowledge.

These people cannot leave?
Who the gave you the power to hold people againt theyre will, to take them out of theyre city, and haul them off to any random place, and tell them how to live, and when and where they can take a poo, just because your on a power trip?
i dislike FEMA

[edit on 11-9-2005 by Selective_ID]



4.) You will not use profanity in our forums, and will neither post with language or content that is obscene,

[edit on 11-9-2005 by asala]

Originally posted by Selective_ID
These people cannot leave?
Who the gave you the power to hold people againt theyre will, to take them out of theyre city, and haul them off to any random place, and tell them how to live, and when and where they can take a poo, just because your on a power trip?
i dislike FEMA

[edit on 11-9-2005 by Selective_ID]

Great, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know I'm associated with people like you. I'm starting to feel sick.
If that's all you can say to someone who appears to be a goodnatured and caring person who has taken their time to give their side of the story, then I hope there is a New World Order and I hope they get YOU first.

One minute your crying that nothing is being done and then when they do try and deal with the situation in the ways that have been found as best over time then you still whine about it.

Maybe you have a better suggestion?

Just try and remember these key points:

1) You have to treat everyone equally so as to avoid conflict

2) You have to reduce the risk of infection and transmission of disease between refugees, staff and outside civilisation.

3) You have to ensure that everyone has their privacy and is not hounded by well meaning public and the media.

4) You have to stay within the boundaries of 'red tape'

5) You have to ensure that nothing you do can be spun by the media or anyone else for that matter.

etc etc


[edit on 11-9-2005 by AgentSmith]

[edit on 11-9-2005 by asala]

Originally posted by AgentSmith
I hope they get YOU first.

Thanks for the first full belly laugh of the day. Well done.

[edit on 11-9-2005 by loam]

Originally posted by Selective_ID

These people cannot leave?
Who the gave you the power to hold people againt theyre will, to take them out of theyre city, and haul them off to any random place, and tell them how to live, and when and where they can take a poo, just because your on a power trip?
i dislike FEMA

[edit on 11-9-2005 by Selective_ID]

Thats called.. getting used to a Dictatorship..

Just ask bush.. I belive his words were..

Lord Bush
If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator

Also to get the people used to givng up thier freedoms.. Also interesting on how Alex Jones has been saying this same thing for the past yr or so since I have been listening to him.. also about taking peoples guns that are legal. Also which is more interesting is people say he is cracked up or something..

Which ironically years later things are starting to fall into place..

No onto this FEMA guy..

We all know that everytime the US goverment or anything remotely involed with them lie at every since chance they get.. let me go over a few examples..

lets start of wit the most noticeable.

OK City, Bin Laden, WTC 93, USS Cole, WTC 01, Iraq War, and now Katrina. In that I see is a bunch of lies, I would actually believe ValHall more than some crackpipe FEMA any day of the week.

It also gets me noticing something else. For this as I stated being a conspircy site, the masses just seemed all to happy to make this guy feel at home. In reality we should be grilling him like a steak on the 4th of July.

and yes I do believe the Constitution has something to say about what my freind above stated and what I have stated...

about this ValHall post

The US Constitution
Article the fourth [Amendment II]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The US Constitution
Article the seventh [Amendment V]

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

ya, so I see absolutely nothing at all wrong wit this..

See ya at the FEMA Centers getting gassed in the masses cause you dont redl into everything like people should on this site.

[edit on 9/11/2005 by ThichHeaded]

[edit on 9/11/2005 by ThichHeaded]

[edit on 11-9-2005 by asala]

Well, just to clear up. I think Mr. Ed came on a bit defensive and maybe he was genuinely upset about the things I stated in my article. To the point he was a bit scattered in his replies.

He seemed to be a decent guy and I hope he comes back and answers my questions. He has now explained:

1. Why hundreds of volunteers were turned away from the camp on Monday. I would like to point out that this turning away led to the situation where many, many cabins had been stocked and decorated (the bathrooms in our cabin looked like you had walked into a freshly restored hotel bathroom with decorative towels and handrags and little baskets of hygiene products beside each sink), but other cabins didn't even have the beds made, and had no supplies or preparations in the least. <=== This could have caused a riot.

2. He explained why the Southern Baptists of Oklahoma can't be trusted to supply certain foods to these people - the evil ones amongst us might poison them or stick a razor blade in an apple.

3. He did NOT explain why pop-tarts are not considered "junk food".

4. He didn't sufficiently explain to me why the refugees needed to be kept away from the Oklahoma citizens who want to ease their discomfort, make them feel supported, and help them start new lives.

5. He DID say they could leave after they got "medicalled" (inside joke). But we already knew that, so he did NOT explain whether they could come and go from the camp.

6. He NEEDS to explain why Davis would be offended by my concerns about Falls Creek. He also needs to explain why Davis's open hearts and arms have any more vested in this than any other city in Oklahoma. (Proximity doesn't count.)

7. He did NOT explain why they can't have milk.

8. He says Oklahoma DHS demands three meals per day, but that's not what was said at the camp. I wish he WOULD clarify this.

FUNNY NOTE: He said Red Cross and Salvation Army will be preparing the meals. Guess what organization owns (as far as I know EVERY) EVERY mobile kitchen used by the Salvation Army and cooks every meal for Salvation Army relief efforts -

that's right...

the Southern Baptist Convention. *sigh*

9. He DID mention the large OHP presence, but there were crickets sounding when it came to the military presence.

10. He didn't explain why I should give a flying flip what Jesse Jackson says. I didn't know Jesse was setting Oklahoma state policies now!

I hope he comes back and answers the unresolved concerns that I posted in this thread in an earlier post.

I hope he does.

[edit on 9-11-2005 by Valhall]

by Ed Kostiuk:
She states her daughter “turned and snapped a picture of his vehicle (Page 5)—very conspicuously”. There was no reason for some James Bond type of picture taking OHP officers are very friendly and will allow their photo’s and that of their cruisers to be taken.

Main Entry: con·spic·u·ous
Pronunciation: kun-'spi-kyu-wus
Function: adjective
1 : obvious to the eye or mind
2 : attracting attention
synonym see NOTICEABLE
- con·spic·u·ous·ly adverb

"very conspicuously" = James Bond type of picture taking ?

Did you not get the obvious point that she stated her daughter was doing so in plain sight? [no pun intended, maybe you should watch the movie?]

by Ed Kostiuk:
We are trying to protect our Louisiana friends from the criminal element and bad people that might want harm done to them.

huh?! :headspin: at a former [emphasis on former] church camp, with the majority of donations coming from said churches, the Red Cross, and Salvation Army?

by Ed Kostiuk:
The toys she refers to must first be checked. We have had “Christian groups” donate toys such as swords, toy guns and other devices that usually mean harm donated to our causes over the years so we check them closely before allowing any kids to play with them.

1st I'd like to have names of the so-called Christian groups that donated toys such as swords, guns, and other harmful devices.

2nd You allow them and check them for what . . . proper function?

3rd The photos provided by Valhall showed none of what you speak of.

by Ed Kostiuk:
The meals were going to be provided by the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army. We at the Health Department were requiring that they eat hot food with plenty of vegetables not the “junk food” that this lady stated she was brining. Snacks were to be laid out during the day and night for their use, but meals which included the basic food groups were required 3 times a day

If I'm not mistaken, Valhall brought BASIC SNACKS [to be laid out during the day and night for their use] and her mother, bless her heart, brought more + VEGETABLES [to eat with the hot food]

If this post isn't fake and complete BS, then I feel for you buddy!

If it's for real . . .

Gotcha on speed dial, ED!
How many rings till the machine picks up?




[edit on 11-9-2005 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by edkostiuk
(Page 8) The occupants of the camp cannot leave the camp for any reason. That is true once they were placed on the busses we had no way to determine their medical status. They have been exposed to several elements and prior to allowing them off camp we wanted to have them checked out by the Doctors and Nurses we had lined up at Falls Creek (Page 15 the people in the blue jump suits). We also had 22 ambulances standing by for medical emergencies. We had a similar camp in Northern Oklahoma and had 4 medical emergencies the night these good folks arrived and they needed immediate transport to a local hospital. Many of these US Citizens arrived with pre-existing medical conditions.

I stand by my original statement. It still sounds like a medical quarantine. I'll bet those mean people in Texas didn't think to have their refugees checked out by doctors and nurses.

Can I make a plea that we stop with the smart quips and sarcasm. I was quite interested to see Mr. Kostiuk's replies to member queries and calls for clarification of points in his original post, but now I think he has been scared off by the acerbic nature of a few of the responses. Denying ignorance means objectively investigating ALL of the information presented, whether it confirms your initial theories or not. Here we have an opportunity to communicate with someone actively involved in the organization of the relief efforts, to maybe nut out the truth of this/these camps, and what do we do? We become hostile. I'm a little embarrassed to read some of the responses in this thread. When you post, please imagine you are addressing Mr. Kostiuk face-to-face.

[edit on 2005-9-11 by wecomeinpeace]

Listen To The Man

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
When you post, please imagine you are addressing Mr. Kostiuk face-to-face.

Ditto. I fully understand the impulse to pile on Mr. Kostiuk and, being a professional, I'm sure he does too.

There is nothing wrong with members expressing themselves here as in any ATS forum.

But please bear in mind, there's only one of him and thousands of us, and the sheer volume alone can make his attempts to explain things difficult.

Come across as an unreasonable, angry mob, however, and why should he even bother?

I'm not sure, but I believe/hope someone from the staff will see about interviewing Mr. Kostiuk and better fleshing out what's going on with the efforts on his end.

And please remember that regardless of your views, Mr. Kostiuk's job is to help people who need help. That's what he does.

While we may reasonably disagree about the details, I urge my fellow members not to forget that.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
but now I think he has been scared off by the acerbic nature of a few of the responses. [edit on 2005-9-11 by wecomeinpeace]

WCIP - you can't be serious. One or two posters scared off a gov't official? I would think somoeone in his position would be well versed to address at least Val's legitimate questions, even under the "tough crowd" at ATS.

I for one cannot blame some of the less mature posters (oh, maybe that includes me) for a sudden silence.

Originally posted by Relentless
WCIP - you can't be serious.

I don't want to argue it here, since that would defeat the original intent of my plea. I just hope that Val or another staff member can organize an interview with Mr. Kostiuk. Perhaps we members could submit questions that could be forwarded to him, and his replies posted collectively here or in another thread.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
Can I make a plea that we stop with the smart quips and sarcasm.

*snip*

When you post, please imagine you are addressing Mr. Kostiuk face-to-face.

Mr Ed wasn't sarcastic? He came off that way.

I always post as if I am speaking face to face.