Potential Disaster Looming: Stop the pumps in New Orleans Now!

Howard:

Where this thread is concerned, I can always count on you like a precision clock made in Switzerland.

As I have repeatedly, stated... time will tell. (No pun intended.)

Glad to see you are as persistent, as I, on this matter. The truth is that I would prefer in the end that you be correct. I remain skeptical, however, of that outcome.


[edit on 5-1-2006 by loam]

Just found these facts. Source: IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES February 6, 2001.

"One gallon of gasoline oxyginated with MTBE can render 5,000,000 gallons of water undrinkable."

. . . the physical properties of MTBE allow MTBE to pass easily from gasoline to air to water, or from gasoline directly to water, but MTBE does not--

(A) readily attach to soil particles; or

(B) naturally degrade;

(3) the development of tumors and nervous system disorders in mice and rats has been linked to exposure to MTBE and tertiary butyl alcohol and formaldehyde, which are 2 metabolic byproducts of MTBE;

(4) reproductive and developmental studies of MTBE indicate that exposure of a pregnant female to MTBE through inhalation can--

(A) result in maternal toxicity; and

(B) have possible adverse effects on a developing fetus;

(5) the Health Effects Institute reported in February 1996 that the studies of MTBE support its classification as a neurotoxicant and suggest that its primary effect is likely to be in the form of acute impairment;

(6) people with higher levels of MTBE in the bloodstream are significantly more likely to report more headaches, eye irritation, nausea, dizziness, burning of the nose and throat, coughing, disorientation, and vomiting as compared with those who have lower levels of MTBE in the
bloodstream;

(7) available information has shown that MTBE significantly reduces the efficiency of technologies used to remediate water contaminated by petroleum hydrocarbons;

(8) the costs of remediation of MTBE water contamination throughout the United States could run into the billions of dollars;

(9) although several studies are being conducted to assess possible methods to remediate drinking water contaminated by MTBE, there have been no engineering solutions to make such remediation cost-efficient and practicable;

(10) the remediation of drinking water contaminated by MTBE, involving the stripping of millions of gallons of contaminated ground water, can cost millions of dollars per municipality;

(11) the average cost of a single industrial cleanup involving MTBE contamination is approximately $150,000;

(12) the average cost of a single cleanup involving MTBE contamination that is conducted by a small business or a homeowner is approximately $37,000.

How many gallons of gasoline got into NO water?

Originally posted by FEMA
Just found these facts. Source: IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES February 6, 2001.

"One gallon of gasoline oxyginated with MTBE can render 5,000,000 gallons of water undrinkable."

Before we go any further, let’s just look at what those numbers mean and how to interpret them.

1/5,000,000 is the same as 0.2 parts per million (ppm) or 200 parts per billion (ppb)

Actually that number is a bit high. Currently the level of MTBE that is known to cause unacceptable taste and odor in drinking water is around 40 ppb.

source

and advisrery


What I don’t like about presenting information in that format is the implication that if you spill one gallon of MTBE you automatically contaminate 5,000,000 gallons of drinking water. This is obviously not the case.

Now, just for comparison, the regulated Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL) for benzene is 5 ppb, four to eight times lower than the advisory limit for MTBE. Benzene’s limits are based on its known carcinogenic effects, whereas the advisory limits for MTBE are based of the objectionable taste and odor.

(10) the remediation of drinking water contaminated by MTBE, involving the stripping of millions of gallons of contaminated ground water, can cost millions of dollars per municipality;

Note the key term, ground water. That is where the problem with MTBE lies. Areas with significant problems in this regard are highly dependent on groundwater aquifers for the drinking water supply. That has always been the issue.

How many gallons of gasoline got into NO water?

Gasoline or MTBE?

MTBE is primarily a problem in those states that were the most affected by the oxygenate mandate of the CAA amendments of 1990.

The Clean Air Act required the use of reformulated gasoline (RFG) in the nine cities in the country with the worst smog-Los Angeles, San Diego, Chicago, Houston, Milwaukee, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Hartford, and New York City (Sacramento was added in 1995).
Other areas have voluntarily entered the RFG program to help attain air quality goals. These "opt-in" areas include portions or all of Connecticut, Delaware, the District of Columbia, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Texas and Virginia. States that voluntarily enter the RFG program are allowed to opt out as well.

source

So in order to determine the potential for MTBE contamination in NOLA, you need to know the following:

1. Was MTBE an additive used in the NOLA area gas stations?
   
   
2. If so, how many MTBE related releases were reported by these facilities?
   
   
3. Was MTBE handled or used in the NOLA area refineries?
   
   
4. if so, how many MTBE related releases were reported by these facilities?
   
   
5. How many of these releases were caused by the hurricanes?
   
   
6. What percentage of NOLA drinking water comes from underground sources and what percentage from surface water?
   
   
7. Where any of these sources impacted by the NOLA flood waters?
   
   

What I don’t like about presenting information in that format is the implication that if you spill one gallon of MTBE you automatically contaminate 5,000,000 gallons of drinking water. This is obviously not the case.

Hello Howard, you, of course are quite correct. I added the information I did after making a comment about storage tanks that were below the water level thus allowing for free leeching into that water.

Thank you though for putting forth your point because it keeps from having the information I found misapplied.

On another note, Madrid eh? I think it would count. I'll pop back to that thread and make comment.

Public Misled on Air Quality After 9/11 Attack, Judge Says

Christie Whitman, when she led the Environmental Protection Agency, made "misleading statements of safety" about the air quality near the World Trade Center in the days after the Sept. 11 attack and may have put the public in danger, a federal judge found yesterday...

Mrs. Whitman knew that the towers' destruction had released huge amounts of hazardous emissions, Judge Batts found. But as early as Sept. 13, Mrs. Whitman and the agency put out press releases saying that the air near ground zero was relatively safe and that there were "no significant levels" of asbestos dust in the air. They gave a green light for residents to return to their homes near the trade center site.

"By these actions," Judge Batts wrote, Mrs. Whitman "increased, and may have in fact created, the danger" to people living and working near the trade center. Judge Batts said that Mrs. Whitman was not entitled to immunity because she was a public official. Judge Batts allowed the suit to proceed on some counts against the E.P.A. She dismissed claims against Marianne L. Horinko, an assistant administrator of the E.P.A. at the time...

Is there any reason to believe that things have improved at the EPA? I think not.

Does anyone fully trust the EPA's assessments concerning New Orleans now?

I have a feeling that I will be posting in this thread for some time to come...

Did Katrina taint soil?

A Louisiana chemist and environmentalist will share her soil sample findings with citizens Saturday night, and the results are surprising and disturbing, Ocean Springs resident Cynthia Wright said...

"I found high levels of arsenic, well above the safe standards," she said.

In Mississippi, more than 90 percent of samples exceeded the acceptable standard set by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Mississippi Department of Environmental Quality...

The findings were 27 times the state and federal standards...

Upper respiratory infections and rashes are other illnesses being reported to the group. In fact, Wright said about 50 individuals were tested in the Escatawpa community in October. Some of them, she said, are still suffering from pneumonia and other illnesses...

Mark my words, there will be more stories like this one...

Imagine this:

"Ever since the storm I have had a really heavy voice and have noticed skin discoloration," she said point to her upper lip. "I have stayed sick with respiratory problems."

Douglas said although she has seen many doctors, they have yet to diagnose her problem. "I wake up coughing up black phlegm," she said.

Yikes!

Hmmm, just so I am clear on this.

The title of this thread is “potential disaster looming, stop the pumps in New Orleans Now!” Which you started because you didn’t want the water flooding New Orleans being pumped back into the Gulf where it would settle out into the offshore sediments.

Now, based on that last post, you are upset because it appears that the soil contamination is the result of pre-Katrina offshore sediments that were washed ashore by the storm surge.